Why are 'anti racist' NGO's so racist to the Irish? *Threadbanned user list in OP*

eleventh

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

...
And yes, it would be great to get back to discussing NGOs here.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Let me know if you want to get back to talking about NGOs.

You have no interest in talking about NGOs, or have yet to show it, apart from every few posts saying "lets talk about NGOs". When anyone has tried to discuss it you go off talking about far-right etc.

If you have a view on NGOs in regard to their racism or lack of, let's hear it.

OP question again:
Why are 'anti racist' NGO's so racist to the Irish?

AndrewJRenko

eleventh wrote: »

You have no interest in talking about NGOs, or have yet to show it, apart from every few posts saying "lets talk about NGOs". When anyone has tried to discuss it you go off talking about far-right etc.

If you have a view on NGOs in regard to their racism or lack of, let's hear it.

OP question again:
Why are 'anti racist' NGO's so racist to the Irish?

If you go back over the thread, you'll find it wasn't me that bought up the far right.

But to get back to the original question, are there any actual examples of Irish NGOs being racist to Irish people?

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Listen, we both know you've been talking out of your arse all day, and are so desperate to get 'back on topic' because you are being shown up for posting absolute scutter. You are claiming on one hand that Peter Casey is far right (he isn't) because the Irish times says so (you refused repeatedly to explain to us why you think he is), are then claiming that you don't believe the far-right have a large presence in Ireland (even though you never shut up about them, and believe that a far-right candidate, the aforementioned Peter Casey, got near 1 in 4 votes to be our president i.e. the actual head of our country), then attempt to talk it away as not everyone who would've voted for a far right candidate is far-right, yet you used this exact reasoning to label up to 40% of boards.ie posters (not even just CA posters but the entire site) as far-right.

Is it any wonder you want to get back talking about NGO's!

Have you considered charging me rent for all that space inside your head that you're giving me?

Unfortunately, I'm operating under a mod restriction above, so I'm restrained from continuing my patient explanation and clarifications of where you've gone wrong again. I know you wouldn't want to see me banned or see the thread closed of course.

Ted_YNWA

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Now you want to talk about Sean "brown envelope" Gallagher? I think we're far enough off topic here. Let me know if you want to get back to talking about NGOs.

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Listen, we both know you've been talking out of your arse all day, and are so desperate to get 'back on topic' because you are being shown up for posting absolute scutter. You are claiming on one hand that Peter Casey is far right (he isn't) because the Irish times says so (you refused repeatedly to explain to us why you think he is), are then claiming that you don't believe the far-right have a large presence in Ireland (even though you never shut up about them, and believe that a far-right candidate, the aforementioned Peter Casey, got near 1 in 4 votes to be our president i.e. the actual head of our country), then attempt to talk it away as not everyone who would've voted for a far right candidate is far-right, yet you used this exact reasoning to label up to 40% of boards.ie posters (not even just CA posters but the entire site) as far-right.

Is it any wonder you want to get back talking about NGO's!

Mod

Knock it off the pair of you, or you will be banned from this thread.

Tell me how

Wibbs wrote: »

Quoting Baudelaire doesn't make you correct, though it's interesting you went the religious angle as political and cultural "truths" are held in very much the same was as religuous faiths and both need a satan to internally reinforce their credos.

Is there a far right in Ireland? Yes. Does it have any political power? No, it does not. To claim otherwise would be utterly delusional. The eejits in the national party would be about the most prominent and you could have held their Ard Fheis in a suburban semi(and if I recall a couple of people walked out halfway through) and not one of them has any access to political power in this country. Zero mandate from the Irish people. The succesive governments the Irish people have voted in over the last generation have passed liberal laws and upheld liberal policies. Ireland is one of the most liberal nations on the planet. Where else might we find this "far right"? National media? Hardly, quite the opposite in fact. Results of referenda? Nope again. Far more Right On more than Far Right.

So outside of cranks on Twitter and Facebook comments, crank environments to start with, there is in fact bugger all "Far Right" as a movement in the Republic of Ireland.

It's almost entirely a boogeyman, reds under the bed, nazis everywhere. A useful boogeyman for some it seems as it's a handy one to trot out if anyone questions the "Accepted Truth". Shout "Far Right!!!" in the hope of avoiding answering such questions, because in most cases with true believers they haven't asked the questions themselves, or they have and realise their accepted Truth is built on feck all.

Now this stuff might work in the US where there is an actual right wing presence(many US liberals would find Ireland too liberal in many ways) and the country is very divided along cultural and political lines, but it doesn't fly in this country. Sorry. Try again.

You are absolutely right Wibbs, there is no right wing in Irish Government, not even close, not in the conventional or American sense which has been used as a defacto benchmark for the concept in recent years.

But that is not to suggest that there isn't a significant right wing mentality which does exist in some circles in Ireland. You allude to this yourself. And no, that doesn't have to bear all the hallmarks of right wing activism in the US either. It can be considered in its own context. Right wing in Ireland can and does mean 'to the right of the political spectrum within that area), in the same way it can and does everywhere else. Same goes for the Left wing. Left wing in the US would be a barely central position in Northern Europe for example.

It is common to see reference to this dismissed as scaremongering or a bogeyman under the bed inferring that, we have nothing to fear here but if we again look to our neighbours in the US and UK, things can change quite quickly and change in a way which, might only be significant for the location where the change is happening. Donald Trump (who was/is a selfish narcissist more so than a strong right wing disciple) was adopted by those with strong right wing ideals and that country is on a pretty thin edge as the dust settles in conservative circles and it is yet to be seen will they go further down this path of right wing rhetoric, or pull back from it. The signs aren't good.

In the UK, right wingers in suits (Farage et al) managed to take the UK out of the EU and in to a position of isolation and economic uncertainty.

In Ireland, we saw a Trump mini-me try and fail (repeatedly) to do what Trump had done and thankfully he did fail. And there are the outliers who you talk of who thankfully thus far are small in number while still being a larger number than existed previously. And given how things shifted in the US and the UK, it would be wrong to suggest this number definitely won't grow.

Take Boards for example. Occupied mostly by Irish people, (home or abroad) and so you could expect to see a reflection of the political mindset of the country shown here. Is the case? It seems most threads related to 'Left Wing' or 'Liberal topics' are started by people denigrating their ideals. We have threads on climate change (specifically climate activism), Black Lives Matter, Multiculturalism, this particular one, 'Wokeism', 'Progressiveness', Swedish society with a particular focus on immigrants, proposed legislation in relation to Hate Speech and others all which seemed to have been started by people with issues of their concept and, more significantly, mostly contributed to by people who largely disagree with the general philosophy of the topic. And, I don't think it is unrealistic to suggest that right wingers, whether in Ireland, the US, the UK would be on a similar page in relation to these particular subjects. The thread on the shooting dead of the man by Gardai recently was quite eye opening to see as many seemed to openly revel in the fact that the event had happened and the percentage of contributors who seemed to be of this view.

So, its probably fair to say that there isn't a significant right wing in Ireland (yet), but that many in Ireland (at least when looked at through the narrow lens of Boards users) (I don't use Facebook and only use Twitter to get pointers to main stories rather than taking part in discussions on it) seem to be in a position where they strongly agree with rightwingers elsewhere on certain topical current affairs. And are motivated by similar topics as well which is even more interesting.

Given how we have seen issues escalate and grow in other countries, I think we would be foolish to think that just because people with these views aren't yet in power in Ireland that that doesn't mean that it isn't an issue in Irish society, or that it might be in future. So while some refer to it as scaremongering, as long as there aren't literal jackboots in Kildare Street, I think it is wiser to see small examples of these ideals being topics which need to be addressed or at the very least acknowledged before they become a serious issue. I'm pretty sure that the picture displayed on Boards isn't a true reflection of the wider Irish society in relation to these topics, but, who knows for sure. I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster and would add there is probably a desire amongst some to detract from the significance of this until such time as they are of a large enough voice to demand attention or maybe just influence the discussion without ever really coming in to the light.

weldoninhio

Tell me how wrote: »

You are absolutely right Wibbs, there is no right wing in Irish Government, not even close, not in the conventional or American sense which has been used as a defacto benchmark for the concept in recent years.

But that is not to suggest that there isn't a significant right wing mentality which does exist in some circles in Ireland. You allude to this yourself. And no, that doesn't have to bear all the hallmarks of right wing activism in the US either. It can be considered in its own context. Right wing in Ireland can and does mean 'to the right of the political spectrum within that area), in the same way it can and does everywhere else. Same goes for the Left wing. Left wing in the US would be a barely central position in Northern Europe for example.

It is common to see reference to this dismissed as scaremongering or a bogeyman under the bed inferring that, we have nothing to fear here but if we again look to our neighbours in the US and UK, things can change quite quickly and change in a way which, might only be significant for the location where the change is happening. Donald Trump (who was/is a selfish narcissist more so than a strong right wing disciple) was adopted by those with strong right wing ideals and that country is on a pretty thin edge as the dust settles in conservative circles and it is yet to be seen will they go further down this path of right wing rhetoric, or pull back from it. The signs aren't good.

In the UK, right wingers in suits (Farage et al) managed to take the UK out of the EU and in to a position of isolation and economic uncertainty.

In Ireland, we saw a Trump mini-me try and fail (repeatedly) to do what Trump had done and thankfully he did fail. And there are the outliers who you talk of who thankfully thus far are small in number while still being a larger number than existed previously. And given how things shifted in the US and the UK, it would be wrong to suggest this number definitely won't grow.

Take Boards for example. Occupied mostly by Irish people, (home or abroad) and so you could expect to see a reflection of the political mindset of the country shown here. Is the case? It seems most threads related to 'Left Wing' or 'Liberal topics' are started by people denigrating their ideals. We have threads on climate change (specifically climate activism), Black Lives Matter, Multiculturalism, this particular one, 'Wokeism', 'Progressiveness', Swedish society with a particular focus on immigrants, proposed legislation in relation to Hate Speech and others all which seemed to have been started by people with issues of their concept and, more significantly, mostly contributed to by people who largely disagree with the general philosophy of the topic. And, I don't think it is unrealistic to suggest that right wingers, whether in Ireland, the US, the UK would be on a similar page in relation to these particular subjects. The thread on the shooting dead of the man by Gardai recently was quite eye opening to see as many seemed to openly revel in the fact that the event had happened and the percentage of contributors who seemed to be of this view.

So, its probably fair to say that there isn't a significant right wing in Ireland (yet), but that many in Ireland (at least when looked at through the narrow lens of Boards users) (I don't use Facebook and only use Twitter to get pointers to main stories rather than taking part in discussions on it) seem to be in a position where they strongly agree with rightwingers elsewhere on certain topical current affairs. And are motivated by similar topics as well which is even more interesting.

Given how we have seen issues escalate and grow in other countries, I think we would be foolish to think that just because people with these views aren't yet in power in Ireland that that doesn't mean that it isn't an issue in Irish society, or that it might be in future. So while some refer to it as scaremongering, as long as there aren't literal jackboots in Kildare Street, I think it is wiser to see small examples of these ideals being topics which need to be addressed or at the very least acknowledged before they become a serious issue. I'm pretty sure that the picture displayed on Boards isn't a true reflection of the wider Irish society in relation to these topics, but, who knows for sure. I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster and would add there is probably a desire amongst some to detract from the significance of this until such time as they are of a large enough voice to demand attention or maybe just influence the discussion without ever really coming in to the light.

Quite a wall of nonsense. Why did Trump, Farage et al have so much influence/come to power??

Because the extreme left were pushing more and more nonsense (more multiculturalism, more isms, more safe spaces, more “incorrect think” being punished, more cancel culture) onto people that the general public pushed back. If any of the main parties had told them to F off with their shyte, the general public wouldn’t need to make a protest vote.

elperello

weldoninhio wrote: »

Quite a wall of nonsense. Why did Trump, Farage et al have so much influence/come to power??

Because the extreme left were pushing more and more nonsense (more multiculturalism, more isms, more safe spaces, more “incorrect think” being punished, more cancel culture) onto people that the general public pushed back. If any of the main parties had told them to F off with their shyte, the general public wouldn’t need to make a protest vote.

On the other hand politics is all about a group of like minded individuals coming together to promulgate their ideas.

bfa1509

Tell me how wrote: »

Given how we have seen issues escalate and grow in other countries, I think we would be foolish to think that just because people with these views aren't yet in power in Ireland that that doesn't mean that it isn't an issue in Irish society, or that it might be in future. So while some refer to it as scaremongering, as long as there aren't literal jackboots in Kildare Street, I think it is wiser to see small examples of these ideals being topics which need to be addressed or at the very least acknowledged before they become a serious issue. I'm pretty sure that the picture displayed on Boards isn't a true reflection of the wider Irish society in relation to these topics, but, who knows for sure. I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster and would add there is probably a desire amongst some to detract from the significance of this until such time as they are of a large enough voice to demand attention or maybe just influence the discussion without ever really coming in to the light.

So if I understand you correctly, you want what little right-wing mentality there is out there at present, we need to give it as small voice as we can so we can then shut it down completely before it grows into something you really don't like?

The reason we don't have more right-wing representation is because of attitudes like yours that plague social media and the conventional media. An attitude that suggests any right-wing view is tantamount to anything from Peter Casey to Gemma O'Doherty and that it should be shut down before anyone has a chance to form their own opinions about it. You think the people of Britain and the US and potentially any other country are so stupid that they could let "Evil Far-Right" representatives poison their suggestable minds.

Do you not realise, whether they were protest votes or not, that people are sick and tired of the cancerous liberalism and globalism spreading at a sickening rate? The engines of society, the honest hard workers on basic salaries being taxed to the hilt in order to line the pockets of those who just don't feel like working. And if they so much as raise their concerns about it they get shut down and stamped with every label going - "racist", "Populist", "facist" "Far right troll".

Your biggest fear is that free speech will spawn a strong support for a right leaning society. So it's easier to just shut down free speech at the source isn't it?

Tell me how

weldoninhio wrote: »

Quite a wall of nonsense. Why did Trump, Farage et al have so much influence/come to power??

Because the extreme left were pushing more and more nonsense (more multiculturalism, more isms, more safe spaces, more “incorrect think” being punished, more cancel culture) onto people that the general public pushed back. If any of the main parties had told them to F off with their shyte, the general public wouldn’t need to make a protest vote.

And here it is, like it was taken from a Fox News chyron, 'it's the liberals fault!'.

Can you answer me this, why is it conservatives seem to be motivated so much by getting angry at liberals. At least liberals are generally looking at something and saying 'right, something should be done about that' The conservatives, well your version of conservative, then put all their effort in to complaining about what the liberals are doing.

As for cancel culture, you do realise a lot of the senators and representatives who voted against Trump in recent congressional votes have been censured by their state GOP administration for doing so. Or how about Donald himself when he tried to ban journalists from the White House? Or probably, the single biggest case of cancel culture we have seen, Colin Kaepernick's career been euthanised because he dared carry out a peaceful protest. I suppose none of that is cancel culture or what would you call it?

Tell me how

bfa1509 wrote: »

So if I understand you correctly, you want what little right-wing mentality there is out there at present, we need to give it as small voice as we can so we can then shut it down completely before it grows into something you really don't like?

The reason we don't have more right-wing representation is because of attitudes like yours that plague social media and the conventional media. An attitude that suggests any right-wing view is tantamount to anything from Peter Casey to Gemma O'Doherty and that it should be shut down before anyone has a chance to form their own opinions about it. You think the people of Britain and the US and potentially any other country are so stupid that they could let "Evil Far-Right" representatives poison their suggestable minds.

Do you not realise, whether they were protest votes or not, that people are sick and tired of the cancerous liberalism and globalism spreading at a sickening rate? The engines of society, the honest hard workers on basic salaries being taxed to the hilt in order to line the pockets of those who just don't feel like working. And if they so much as raise their concerns about it they get shut down and stamped with every label going - "racist", "Populist", "facist" "Far right troll".

Your biggest fear is that free speech will spawn a strong support for a right leaning society. So it's easier to just shut down free speech at the source isn't it?

You have kind of proven my point, your key views as a conservative are your concerns about 'cancerous liberalism and globalism'. It's these types of threads which seem to dominate on here rather than ones which identify a societal need and suggest ways to approach solving it. And is the same type of narrative used by some prominent right wing politicians.

I'm currently living in the US, the state Governor is Republican and I think has done a largely good job in managing the Covid Pandemic. If someone told me today that Mitt Romney was going to be President in 2024 (he won't be), I'd say that's fine. In Ireland, I think we have a very strong social welfare system and what is needed in efficiency of capital projects and HSE administration. I think there are some perfectly fine politicians on the 'right' of what the political spectrum is there.

I've no problem with people having conservative mindsets and wouldn't class myself as far left wing by any stretch, I see myself as left of centre (again Irish context) but the general tone in some sectors and often accompanied with overt nationalism and seeing being non-pc as some sort of badge of honour which I do have an issue with.
And I do believe that US and UK key elections were swung by people using negatively evocative language and branding which didn't then and has been proven to not standing up to scrutiny rather that a policy genuinely aiming at helping all in their society.

biko

The eternal question - how can we shut down other voices and amplify our own?

TomTomTim

biko wrote: »

The eternal question - how can we shut down other voices and amplify our own?

I've seen American Democrats say that destroying the other side and creating a one party state would be the best thing for what they call "democracy". All dissent must be crushed for "democracy" to flourish. Once everyone agrees on everything we'll be living in a healthy "democracy" If people in said "democracy" vote against our healthy "democracy", then they are fascists looking to destroy "democracy".

weldoninhio

Tell me how wrote: »

And here it is, like it was taken from a Fox News chyron, 'it's the liberals fault!'.

Can you answer me this, why is it conservatives seem to be motivated so much by getting angry at liberals. At least liberals are generally looking at something and saying 'right, something should be done about that' The conservatives, well your version of conservative, then put all their effort in to complaining about what the liberals are doing.

As for cancel culture, you do realise a lot of the senators and representatives who voted against Trump in recent congressional votes have been censured by their state GOP administration for doing so. Or how about Donald himself when he tried to ban journalists from the White House? Or probably, the single biggest case of cancel culture we have seen, Colin Kaepernick's career been euthanised because he dared carry out a peaceful protest. I suppose none of that is cancel culture or what would you call it?

But it's not the liberals fault, give anyone a platform and they'll use it.

It's the governments fault, why are we, the taxpayer, paying for so many NGO's on a tiny island on the arse of Europe? Why are these people given such easy access to funding? Ebun Josephine, blatantly and unashamedly racist, given airtime by our state broadcaster. Imagine a white person spouting the shyte she does, they'd never work again, never mind get constantly invited onto shows. Can you give any coherent reason why a tiny island off Europe is importing US identity politics into it? We've seen what it does, so why is it welcomed on these shores?

As for Kaepernick, he literally wasn't good enough to play, add in his protests and it was inevitable no one would want him. QBs get axed every season, he more than likely knew he wasn't going to be a starting QB so decided to go out in a blaze of glory. Was Brock Osweiler "cancelled" too??

In the 2016-17 NFL season, Colin Kaepernick was in the bottom half of production for quarterbacks. His 2,241 yards passing ranked 29th in the league. His quarterback rating was also near the bottom of the league. He ranked 23rd in the NFL with a 49.2 QBR.

Accuracy was Kaepernick’s biggest issue since the Super Bowl season. He was 26th in the league in completion percentage (59.2) in 2016-17. He threw just four interceptions all year, but he was also near the bottom of the league with just 16 touchdown passes.

The closest QB to Kaepernick’s numbers in his final season was Brock Osweiler, who is now out of the NFL too.

Beasty

A number of posts deleted

The thread concerning the shooting dead of an individual by a Garda was closed. This is not a thread to discuss what was said there.

Any questions PM me

CtevenSrowder

weldoninhio wrote: »

But it's not the liberals fault, give anyone a platform and they'll use it.

It's the governments fault, why are we, the taxpayer, paying for so many NGO's on a tiny island on the arse of Europe? Why are these people given such easy access to funding? Ebun Josephine, blatantly and unashamedly racist, given airtime by our state broadcaster. Imagine a white person spouting the shyte she does, they'd never work again, never mind get constantly invited onto shows. Can you give any coherent reason why a tiny island off Europe is importing US identity politics into it? We've seen what it does, so why is it welcomed on these shores?

As for Kaepernick, he literally wasn't good enough to play, add in his protests and it was inevitable no one would want him. QBs get axed every season, he more than likely knew he wasn't going to be a starting QB so decided to go out in a blaze of glory. Was Brock Osweiler "cancelled" too??

In the 2016-17 NFL season, Colin Kaepernick was in the bottom half of production for quarterbacks. His 2,241 yards passing ranked 29th in the league. His quarterback rating was also near the bottom of the league. He ranked 23rd in the NFL with a 49.2 QBR.

Accuracy was Kaepernick’s biggest issue since the Super Bowl season. He was 26th in the league in completion percentage (59.2) in 2016-17. He threw just four interceptions all year, but he was also near the bottom of the league with just 16 touchdown passes.

The closest QB to Kaepernick’s numbers in his final season was Brock Osweiler, who is now out of the NFL too.

Whilst I agree Kaepernick may not have been cancelled because of his protest, many on the 'right' in America had an absolute stinker in regards to their reaction to it.

It is crazy the numbers involved in the NGO sector in Ireland.

weldoninhio

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Whilst I agree Kaepernick may not have been cancelled because of his protest, many on the 'right' in America had an absolute stinker in regards to their reaction to it.

It is crazy the numbers involved in the NGO sector in Ireland.

As did many on the left, who rewrote history who try and make Kaepernick into an MVP QB who was dropped because of his protest.

AndrewJRenko

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

It is crazy the numbers involved in the NGO sector in Ireland.

Which numbers are we talking about now?

RandRuns

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Which numbers are we talking about now?

Ireland's non-profit sector:

Receives 8% of total exchequer spending (€5.9 bn)
165,075 Employees (not including teachers or unpaid volunteers).
86,481 Directors/charity trustees
€14.2bn Turnover in the orgs that share financial data.
22,484 of the organisations don't share financial data.

Ireland’s nonprofit sector has 32,841 organisations. About 9,854 nonprofits are incorporated as companies, 3,948 are primary or secondary schools, 787 more are incorporated as friendly societies, cooperatives, industrial societies, political parties or charter bodies. The rest – including thousands of local, religious or sports organisations – are unincorporated associations.

Many of these organisations are legitimate sports clubs, hospitals, charities etc.
Many are not.

AndrewJRenko

RandRuns wrote: »

Ireland's non-profit sector:

Receives 8% of total exchequer spending (€5.9 bn)
165,075 Employees (not including teachers or unpaid volunteers).
86,481 Directors/charity trustees
€14.2bn Turnover in the orgs that share financial data.
22,484 of the organisations don't share financial data.

Ireland’s nonprofit sector has 32,841 organisations. About 9,854 nonprofits are incorporated as companies, 3,948 are primary or secondary schools, 787 more are incorporated as friendly societies, cooperatives, industrial societies, political parties or charter bodies. The rest – including thousands of local, religious or sports organisations – are unincorporated associations.

Many of these organisations are legitimate sports clubs, hospitals, charities etc.
Many are not.

So that's about half the level of funding that Howard claimed in the OP. Can you confirm your source for this please? I'm particularly interested to see how much of this funding relates to outsourced health and disability services n

RandRuns

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So that's about half the level of funding that Howard claimed in the OP. Can you confirm your source for this please? I'm particularly interested to see how much of this funding relates to outsourced health and disability services n

Knock yourself out on Google like I did, plenty of reports on it.

AndrewJRenko

RandRuns wrote: »

Knock yourself out on Google like I did, plenty of reports on it.

You quoted specific figures which presumably come from a specific source. I'm just asking that you share your source - not an unreasonable request in these kinds of discussions.

Tell me how

TomTomTim wrote: »

I've seen American Democrats say that destroying the other side and creating a one party state would be the best thing for what they call "democracy". All dissent must be crushed for "democracy" to flourish. Once everyone agrees on everything we'll be living in a healthy "democracy" If people in said "democracy" vote against our healthy "democracy", then they are fascists looking to destroy "democracy".

Link please.

Tell me how

biko wrote: »

The eternal question - how can we shut down other voices and amplify our own?

Not surprised this is what you heard.

Let me put it more specifically; Why is the conservative representation and focus on here so out of step with the conservative representation and focus in Irish politics?

RandRuns

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You quoted specific figures which presumably come from a specific source. I'm just asking that you share your source - not an unreasonable request in these kinds of discussions.

Google the figures and the reports will come up. Since your reluctance to share any backing for claims you've made is so entrenched that you have received warnings for it, I'm not inclined to do your work for you, as we both know you will simply dismiss any evidence given to you, while refusing to provide any of your own.

biko

https://www.businesspost.ie/analysis-opinion/more-than-half-of-ngos-eur105-billion-funding-comes-from-the-state-9b7115a5

The government funds more than half of the €10.5 billion Ireland’s non-profit organisations generate annually, according to a report from Benefacts, the social enterprise that promotes the transparency of NGOs.

The €5.5 billion contributed by government to nonprofits amounts to 8.2 per cent of all current expenditure by the exchequer, according to the report which is due to be published this week.

Ireland has more than 19,500 registered NGOs,

Mad_maxx

Tell me how wrote: »

Not surprised this is what you heard.

Let me put it more specifically; Why is the conservative representation and focus on here so out of step with the conservative representation and focus in Irish politics?

why is the far left focus in irish media so out of step with far left representation on the ground ?

there is your answer

biko

Tell me how wrote: »

Let me put it more specifically; Why is the conservative representation and focus on here so out of step with the conservative representation and focus in Irish politics?

Good question, ask in Politics forum.

Kivaro

The government funds more than half of the €10.5 billion Ireland’s non-profit organisations generate annually, according to a report from Benefacts, the social enterprise that promotes the transparency of NGOs.

The €5.5 billion contributed by government to nonprofits amounts to 8.2 per cent of all current expenditure by the exchequer, according to the report which is due to be published this week.

Ireland has more than 19,500 registered NGOs

It is no wonder that UN African delegates make fun of the excessive amount of NGOs that we have in this country. We are a laughing stock on the world stage and it would be funny if it wasn't so serious. Being one of the most indebted countries on the planet and with the massive Covid bill coming, can we really afford all of the duplication that currently occurs in the lucrative NGO industry? Simple answer is No. Since I cannot imagine our government doing anything about it, maybe the EU could step in and sort it out.

Wibbs

Tell me how wrote: »

In Ireland, we saw a Trump mini-me try and fail (repeatedly) to do what Trump had done and thankfully he did fail. And there are the outliers who you talk of who thankfully thus far are small in number while still being a larger number than existed previously. And given how things shifted in the US and the UK, it would be wrong to suggest this number definitely won't grow.

Yeah, there's a really big problem with your take on this and that's how Ireland's politics have evolved down the years. The UK has always had a right wing conservative presence and electoral base, America certainly has. However Ireland while having a conservative religious period(with some "left wing" thinking as far as some social supports go), that same religious period has been dropped like a stinky thing and in the last 30 years, year by year, referendum by referendum, law by law, Ireland and the Irish have become more liberal, more progressive over time and right up to the last referendum. If this far right boogeyman was in play outside of an absolutely tiny number of Irish people we'd have seen at least some pushback. Instead and again outside of very fringe areas and arenas we have seen and continue to see no evidence of that.

Does that notion that "PC SJW Liberals!!" caused Trump and Brexit hold water. I used to think it did to some degree, but now, not nearly so much. Again the UK and the US have an existing conservative right voting bloc and always have had. In the US presidential elections are usually pretty close run things between one side and the other. It doesn't take much to swing it. The vast majority of Americans voting in 16 voted as they always voted. For their side and usually on very local as much as federal topics. Trump just happened to get a swing from the swingers and a lacklustre set of opponents. Now of course there's more complexity going on, but the backlash against the loony liberals has been overplayed in my humble.

With Brexit, again the UK, well England has always had little Englanders dreaming of empire and the glorious past and suspicious of Europe and foreigners. "The wogs start in Calais" as the Major said in Fawlty Towers back in the 1970's. It also has a strong conservative tradition. It also has bugger all experience of referenda and a first past the post voting system. Brexit was always going to be close in the UK and pretty likely a Yes to it in England.

Again Ireland didn't have any of that to nearly the same degree. The Left always had a decent level of support even under the Church and down the decades the centre left has been with very few exceptions the main trend in this country and culture and it has trended more and more "liberal" right down to today. Going by long standing trends Ireland will see a far right wing party with a decent groundswell of support at about the same time Saudi Arabia will see a communist party with a decent groundswell of support. An Irish Irexit party or movement would be about as likely as finding a snowman in the Sahara.

The only outliers to that I can see concern the attitude towards Travellers and latterly migrants into the country to a lesser degree and most often aimed at only some demographics. On the Travellers side things have gotten worse and that's after all sorts of quangos and think tanks and funding etc. Many people are indeed getting tired of that. On migrants, the obvious pushback was the crystal clear majority referendum that removed the birthright citizenship legislative loophole. It seems people were tired of that too and I'd bet the same majority would be returned today.

Take Boards for example.

OK, lets. Anti Traveller sentiment is indeed high and quite across the board with it. I'd reckon that's fairly representative of wider Irish society if and when people consider it at all. There can be an urban/rural split there too. I've found rural folks far more concerned and anti Traveller.

On migrants? Even among the most ardent anti migrant posters here, I can't recall seeing too many, if any who are against legal migration of people who are likely to contribute to the country. Vanishingly few are actually anti migration. The majority are against the migration of an imported underclass adding to the existing problems of our homegrown one, with a side order with some of "Islam is coming!!". Others are concerned about the rapid two decades shift in our (mostly urban)demographics, especially as they see how it's not exactly gone well elsewhere. Some of that will be reflected in wider society, but down the years my experience of people in the Real World on this subject would be along the lines of yes to legal migration, no to creating an imported problem and let's keep the numbers controllable.

Then you have the anti social welfare and housing posters. Again though vocal at times are actually few enough in number and in the Real World you do meet some, and yes mostly middle class middle aged homeowners struggling to pay mortgages, or younger people struggling with rent, taking their quite understandable frustration and stress out. At the wrong people IMHO.

And of course we do have some who would be racist, sexist, whateverist you're having yourself. Just like wider society, though they have a far greater set of reins on them in here compared to the local pub or twitter.

Where I have seen some shift both online and off are attitudes to media and government and mouthpieces in both when it comes to asking questions around some "taboo" subjects. A certain weariness and wariness around "correct think" and a lack of other voices, measured voices who ask questions. Never mind an overall weariness around our political class. Do I think that will lead to Irish nazis? No. It's far more likely to lead to more people just not bothering to engage politically re voting etc.

TL;DR? Yes the Irish far right are the near definition of a political boogeyman, because what exists is tiny, trends clearly show Ireland going in the opposite direction and quite unlike other countries, but it's a handy way to scare off some debate by utilising the fear of it and imaginings of growth in the future.

Tell me how

biko wrote: »

Good question, ask in Politics forum.

Answer duly noted.

Tell me how

Wibbs wrote: »

Yeah, there's a really big problem with your take on this and that's how Ireland's politics have evolved down the years. The UK has always had a right wing conservative presence and electoral base, America certainly has. However Ireland while having a conservative religious period(with some "left wing" thinking as far as some social supports go), that same religious period has been dropped like a stinky thing and in the last 30 years, year by year, referendum by referendum, law by law, Ireland and the Irish have become more liberal, more progressive over time and right up to the last referendum. If this far right boogeyman was in play outside of an absolutely tiny number of Irish people we'd have seen at least some pushback. Instead and again outside of very fringe areas and arenas we have seen and continue to see no evidence of that.

Does that notion that "PC SJW Liberals!!" caused Trump and Brexit hold water. I used to think it did to some degree, but now, not nearly so much. Again the UK and the US have an existing conservative right voting bloc and always have had. In the US presidential elections are usually pretty close run things between one side and the other. It doesn't take much to swing it. The vast majority of Americans voting in 16 voted as they always voted. For their side and usually on very local as much as federal topics. Trump just happened to get a swing from the swingers and a lacklustre set of opponents. Now of course there's more complexity going on, but the backlash against the loony liberals has been overplayed in my humble.

With Brexit, again the UK, well England has always had little Englanders dreaming of empire and the glorious past and suspicious of Europe and foreigners. "The wogs start in Calais" as the Major said in Fawlty Towers back in the 1970's. It also has a strong conservative tradition. It also has bugger all experience of referenda and a first past the post voting system. Brexit was always going to be close in the UK and pretty likely a Yes to it in England.

Again Ireland didn't have any of that to nearly the same degree. The Left always had a decent level of support even under the Church and down the decades the centre left has been with very few exceptions the main trend in this country and culture and it has trended more and more "liberal" right down to today. Going by long standing trends Ireland will see a far right wing party with a decent groundswell of support at about the same time Saudi Arabia will see a communist party with a decent groundswell of support. An Irish Irexit party or movement would be about as likely as finding a snowman in the Sahara.

The only outliers to that I can see concern the attitude towards Travellers and latterly migrants into the country to a lesser degree and most often aimed at only some demographics. On the Travellers side things have gotten worse and that's after all sorts of quangos and think tanks and funding etc. Many people are indeed getting tired of that. On migrants, the obvious pushback was the crystal clear majority referendum that removed the birthright citizenship legislative loophole. It seems people were tired of that too and I'd bet the same majority would be returned today.

OK, lets. Anti Traveller sentiment is indeed high and quite across the board with it. I'd reckon that's fairly representative of wider Irish society if and when people consider it at all. There can be an urban/rural split there too. I've found rural folks far more concerned and anti Traveller.

On migrants? Even among the most ardent anti migrant posters here, I can't recall seeing too many, if any who are against legal migration of people who are likely to contribute to the country. Vanishingly few are actually anti migration. The majority are against the migration of an imported underclass adding to the existing problems of our homegrown one, with a side order with some of "Islam is coming!!". Others are concerned about the rapid two decades shift in our (mostly urban)demographics, especially as they see how it's not exactly gone well elsewhere. Some of that will be reflected in wider society, but down the years my experience of people in the Real World on this subject would be along the lines of yes to legal migration, no to creating an imported problem and let's keep the numbers controllable.

Then you have the anti social welfare and housing posters. Again though vocal at times are actually few enough in number and in the Real World you do meet some, and yes mostly middle class middle aged homeowners struggling to pay mortgages, or younger people struggling with rent, taking their quite understandable frustration and stress out. At the wrong people IMHO.

And of course we do have some who would be racist, sexist, whateverist you're having yourself. Just like wider society, though they have a far greater set of reins on them in here compared to the local pub or twitter.

Where I have seen some shift both online and off are attitudes to media and government and mouthpieces in both when it comes to asking questions around some "taboo" subjects. A certain weariness and wariness around "correct think" and a lack of other voices, measured voices who ask questions. Never mind an overall weariness around our political class. Do I think that will lead to Irish nazis? No. It's far more likely to lead to more people just not bothering to engage politically re voting etc.

TL;DR? Yes the Irish far right are the near definition of a political boogeyman, because what exists is tiny, trends clearly show Ireland going in the opposite direction and quite unlike other countries, but it's a handy way to scare off some debate by utilising the fear of it and imaginings of growth in the future.

There isn't too much in here to either refute or agree with. I'm not going to get in to the semantics of the focus and trend of various threads you included and how they reflect the real world as you put it. I would say if the threads truly reflected the real world, then politics would likely reflect the threads. Or if not, why not.

Noticing elements and tone of it which appear disproportionally represented on places such as this is not attempting to scare off debate. Or maybe this is an attempt in itself to scare off debate about debate or is that all too complicated?