Why are 'anti racist' NGO's so racist to the Irish? *Threadbanned user list in OP*

AndrewJRenko

RandRuns wrote: »

Google the figures and the reports will come up. Since your reluctance to share any backing for claims you've made is so entrenched that you have received warnings for it, I'm not inclined to do your work for you, as we both know you will simply dismiss any evidence given to you, while refusing to provide any of your own.

Just for the record, I was asked once (not warnings) to clarify the basis for my opinion, and I provided the source for that information.

OK, so it looks like Benefacts was the source. It confirms my suspicion that Howard was way off target with his initial claim of €10 billion taxpayer funding, as about half of NGO funding comes from other sources.

AndrewJRenko

Kivaro wrote: »

It is no wonder that UN African delegates make fun of the excessive amount of NGOs that we have in this country. We are a laughing stock on the world stage and it would be funny if it wasn't so serious. Being one of the most indebted countries on the planet and with the massive Covid bill coming, can we really afford all of the duplication that currently occurs in the lucrative NGO industry? Simple answer is No. Since I cannot imagine our government doing anything about it, maybe the EU could step in and sort it out.

I'd imagine the African UN delegates would be well versed in the dangers of international comparisons of spending. For example, in the UK, much of disability and social care services are funded by local authorities. Here in Ireland, much of these services are provided by NGOs, such as the older religious bodies (St John of God, Brothers of Charity, Daughters of Charity and more) along with bodies like Rehab, NCBI, Chime and more. So if you compare Irish spend vs UK spend, even on a per capita basis, you'll find Ireland spends more on NGOs and UK spends more on local authorities. Drawing any good or bad conclusions from this on its own is bad research.

Benefacts confirm that health funding of Section 38 bodies is included here. It looks like Universities are also considered to be NGOs. Here's what Benefacts says; https://www.benefacts.ie/insights/reports/2020/funding/

nearly 80% of State funding is directed at 119 medium and large nonprofits, mostly in service fees to health and social care, higher education and local development.

So the scenario that Howard painted of €10 billion going to advocacy groups to point out cases of racism by Irish people isn't very realistic.

Wibbs

Tell me how wrote: »

There isn't too much in here to either refute or agree with. I'm not going to get in to the semantics of the focus and trend of various threads you included and how they reflect the real world as you put it. I would say if the threads truly reflected the real world, then politics would likely reflect the threads. Or if not, why not.

Simple enough really. While they might not like position A or B in candidates people, especially Irish people I would say tend to vote local, tend to vote "safe" and aren't too interested in extremes. The Left parties here have pretty tiny electoral support too and we'd be more left as a nation in general.

Noticing elements and tone of it which appear disproportionally represented on places such as this is not attempting to scare off debate. Or maybe this is an attempt in itself to scare off debate about debate or is that all too complicated?

Again not really. For a start the loudest voices get more heard, the number actually posting, especially those of more extreme and encompassing views on either side are actually quite small. Plus you have anonymity which will impact that. Before porn was online over the counter sales were a fraction of what is consumed today and most if not the majority of people would look aghast at the mere suggestion they would consume blue movies. With anonymity it seems many if not most will view some porn, with a minority of one arm bandits at one end and a minority who never do at the other.

I would be left in pretty much all respects. I fully support the welfare state, subsidised housing, education and health and indeed would increase efficient spending in a few areas within that I have zero issue with how my taxes are used, when they are used efficiently. I would certainly increase focus on marginalised groups, but again efficiently and minus the social studies BS. I would be about as far away from another imported nonsense libertarian as you could find. I also support women's right to choose, gender, sexual and racial equality and equality of opportunity and voted that way in every referendum that has come along.

On the other hand I consider modern "feminism" to be another imported victimhood oppressed/oppressor middle class cult that is so full of demonstrable holes it would pass fair muster as a teabag and drives division. I also consider modern multiculturalism to not be the accepted truth of greatness that it is portrayed as and causes more problems than it solves, not least for many in migrant populations within such societies and also has the victimhood oppressed/oppressor narrative in play with it and again drives division.

Does this tone make me far right? I am quite sure for a goodly few I am most certainly seen as far right.

bfa1509

TomTomTim wrote: »

I've seen American Democrats say that destroying the other side and creating a one party state would be the best thing for what they call "democracy". All dissent must be crushed for "democracy" to flourish. Once everyone agrees on everything we'll be living in a healthy "democracy" If people in said "democracy" vote against our healthy "democracy", then they are fascists looking to destroy "democracy".

Not sure why you are using quotes, because that is the very definition of democracy - the loudest mob gets it's way.

Unfortunately in Ireland, you have the smallest mobs shouting the loudest and it's rarely in the best interests of the majority.

Sir Oxman

weldoninhio wrote: »

Quite a wall of nonsense. Why did Trump, Farage et al have so much influence/come to power??

Because the extreme left were pushing more and more nonsense (more multiculturalism, more isms, more safe spaces, more “incorrect think” being punished, more cancel culture) onto people that the general public pushed back. If any of the main parties had told them to F off with their shyte, the general public wouldn’t need to make a protest vote.

Yes, that was full of major assumptions except one that I'd kind of agree with.
That is if the establishment (political parties, media, NGOs, civil society lobby groups, tech) continue on the path of one and only one narrative and 'no debate' [TradeMark of the queer/gender ideologue branch of the craziness], there will be a move to whoever emerges that is reputable and who oppose the illogical, current authoritarian loving narrative which is massively not naturally of the left.

I've been left leaning all of my life and my biggest concern in 2021 is the 'modern left' (I've finally settled on that moniker for these cretins )

Left in name, absolutely not left in ideal.

Ted_YNWA

Mod

There are more suitable threads & forums to discuss the political landscape. Can we stay on topic here please.

Dual wheels

*Mod snip of racist guff*

Banned

Eric Cartman

biko wrote: »

https://www.businesspost.ie/analysis-opinion/more-than-half-of-ngos-eur105-billion-funding-comes-from-the-state-9b7115a5

A disgraceful waste of money , like using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut at this point with NGO's and problems that do not befit how much money we throw at them.

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

A disgraceful waste of money , like using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut at this point with NGO's and problems that do not befit how much money we throw at them.

Just ICYMI;

nearly 80% of State funding is directed at 119 medium and large nonprofits, mostly in service fees to health and social care, higher education and local development.

Eric Cartman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Just ICYMI;

I think everyone can acknowledge there are good NGO's here like homecare groups and disability groups.

However we spend over 10 billion on NGO's , even if those 80% were all benign, thats still 2 billion quid a year that has questionable results.

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I think everyone can acknowledge there are good NGO's here like homecare groups and disability groups.

However we spend over 10 billion on NGO's , even if those 80% were all benign, thats still 2 billion quid a year that has questionable results.

We don't spend over €10 billion on NGOs. Howard got that wrong too.

Kivaro

Methinks thou protesteth too much.
The tax payer in Ireland is being conned by the disproportionate amount of NGOs per capita and their highly paid executives for a country our size. And lets not mention the duplication of the duplication of the duplication of the "services" that many of them provide.

AndrewJRenko

Kivaro wrote: »

Methinks thou protesteth too much.
The tax payer in Ireland is being conned by the disproportionate amount of NGOs per capita and their highly paid executives for a country our size. And lets not mention the duplication of the duplication of the duplication of the "services" that many of them provide.

I'm not protesting. I'm just putting out the facts.

Would you like to share your per capita analysis, adjusted for the international comparison issues noted above please?

Dyr

Proudly paid for by you and me

https://twitter.com/Fishamble/status/1361764773889789959

RandRuns

Bambi wrote: »

Proudly paid for by you and me

https://twitter.com/Fishamble/status/1361764773889789959

I wonder what the reaction would be if somebody put up a call for applicants to a workshop and included the line; "Please note that this workshop is ONLY open to applications from White artists, artists of European decent, artists from ethnic Irish backgrounds"

AndrewJRenko

RandRuns wrote: »

I wonder what the reaction would be if somebody put up a call for applicants to a workshop and included the line; "Please note that this workshop is ONLY open to applications from White artists, artists of European decent, artists from ethnic Irish backgrounds"

Do you think that your call would address the issue of ; "support underrepresented voices in Irish theatre*?

AndrewJRenko

Bambi wrote: »

Proudly paid for by you and me

Everyone pays tax.

Which Facebook group did you see this circulated on btw?

RandRuns

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do you think that your call would address the issue of ; "support underrepresented voices in Irish theatre*?

Can you give me some information on the relative representation of black voices in Irish theatre wrt their representation in the population?

biko

Quite a backlash to that tweet but no-one brings up the obvious;

Please note that this workshop is ONLY open to applications from Black artists, artists of colour, artists from ethnic minority backgrounds, and migrant artists.

Same thing unless black is now separate from POC

RandRuns

biko wrote: »

Quite a backlash to that tweet but no-one brings up the obvious;


Same thing unless black is now separate from POC

Maybe they mean white Irish people with sunburn. Would love to send some pasty lad with a farmers tan in to apply, and then sue when he is turned down!

Sir Oxman

Yeah, the largest disadvantaged and underrepresented demographic by far are working class and poor working class people.
That's true inclusion and bloody skin colour is irrelevant.
Zero need for racist segregation - but the aul easy virtue signalling (with other peoples money, even easier) is hard to resist.
Also, has there been an in depth analysis of racism in the arts sector, I mean it's a sector not exactly known for the lack of middle and upper class virtuous types

AndrewJRenko

RandRuns wrote: »

Can you give me some information on the relative representation of black voices in Irish theatre wrt their representation in the population?

So you don't have all that information already? Wouldn't you think you might have done some research before you posted?

It's funny to see how quickly these serious concerns about arts funding emerge from people who never gave a toss about theatre development in the past.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Everyone pays tax.

Which Facebook group did you see this circulated on btw?

Are you seriously justifying this?? You think it's perfectly fine to discriminate based on skin colour ?

RandRuns

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you don't have all that information already? Wouldn't you think you might have done some research before you posted?

It's funny to see how quickly these serious concerns about arts funding emerge from people who never gave a toss about theatre development in the past.

Yet again Andrew, The Great Asker Of Questions, fails to answer one.

Why should I provide information to a question I didn't ask? You are a busted flush Andrew, the same tactic every time.

biko

Is there need for an "pro-Irish" NGO?
What would a pro-Irish NGO do?

RandRuns

biko wrote: »

Is there need for an "pro-Irish" NGO?
What would a pro-Irish NGO do?

Wouldn't be allowed.

It would be refused funding, refused charitable tax status, it would be branded fascist and extreme right wing by the press, and anyone involved with it or supporting it would be unpersoned.

Not only is racism allowed, it is mandatory, once it is against the native Irish.

Eric Cartman

Bambi wrote: »

Proudly paid for by you and me

https://twitter.com/Fishamble/status/1361764773889789959

Excluding the bast majority of Irish people is not what we should fund. How this blatant anti white racism is allowed is shocking.

TomTomTim

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Excluding the bast majority of Irish people is not what we should fund. How this blatant anti white racism is allowed is shocking.

https://twitter.com/AperturePawn/status/1362177817119760384

These people honestly need to be institutionalized, as they struggle with the most basic things in the world, like what the term "native" means.

Mike Murdock

TomTomTim wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AperturePawn/status/1362177817119760384

These people honestly need to be institutionalized, as they struggle with the most basic things in the world, like what the term "native" means.

To be honest, I'm more interested in the fact that he thinks systemic racism exists in 99.99% of funding schemes.

That is a hell of a charge to make. Where is his evidence?

biko

They just guess.