Bizarre propane gas hob problems

Magilla Gorilla

Hi all.


Wondering if anyone has experienced this...


We have a new gas hob, with large propane cylinder installed outside by registered plumber. All went well for a few weeks until the cold nights came in. Suddenly, the gas started to fail at the hob and cut out. Removing the connection always clears the problem and all goes well for hours/days/weeks depending.


We bought a second cylinder and again, all worked fine for a few weeks until problem started again. Rang the plumber, he suggested a faulty regulator and I replaced it with a similar model. Worked fine for a while and once again, when it's cold enough, the gas will cut out.



The only obvious connection we can make with all the incidents is that it is always the colder nights when it happens.


Some other points-
The first couple of times, there was a build-up of jelly/wax at the regulator filter (inside the opening of the regulator) this has not occurred in a while, possibly a cleaner gas cylinder...

Other times, there was crystal-like flecks at the regulator filter, again, not always.
Sometimes, the regulator is clear.
There is always a slight pressure-release when I open the lock-nut, but I can understand this.
Finally, when I take off the regulator, there is a crackling sound coming from it, which stops after a minute or two. It's like the regulator is drying out or something. I'm wondering if condensation build-up because of the low temperature is the problem- would a different regulator make a difference?



The plumber is stumped and has recommended a different brand of regulator. The hob seems fine and as I said, it works for weeks without issue.


Any suggestions?

Lumen

Sounds like the regulator is freezing up, is it just with this one tankful? Maybe there was excess moisture in the propane.

I've been using a similar setup for a few years without issue. My tanks are the R2D2-sized ones, patio gas sized.

Magilla Gorilla

We're using the larger tanks, 34kg. Bought the second one weeks after the first in case the first one was poor quality, exact same pattern of problems.

tabby aspreme

Being using the 34kg cylinders here for 20 years, and a mug of hot water poured over the regulator sorts it out after a heavy frost, it's nothing to worry about.

listermint

It's the cold weather. It comes with having gas.


Not sure who advised gas to you but induction would have been a far superior purchase without the additional nonsense.

supersaint3

listermint wrote: »

It's the cold weather. It comes with having gas.


Not sure who advised gas to you but induction would have been a far superior purchase without the additional nonsense.

Induction hobs are brutal

Cerco

Would one of those outside frost prevention tap covers help?

Dempo1

Yes, exact same problem in extreme cold temperatures, I've noticed it more evident when tanks near empty. It only occurs a few evenings a year, I've never investigated if a jacket or cover can't be purchased.

Markcheese

We used to occasionally get that when I was growing up , but only if it was a particularly frosty morning ...
Is this happening on a cold ( not icy ) evening ?
Just seems odd - unless you're in a very cold spot ..


Edit - I just remembered,we used to use butane , (yellow cylinders) which do stop working at just around 0 degrees ( well, a little lower ) ,
They recommend propane for cold temps ,so back to square 1 , I guess...

1874

listermint wrote: »

It's the cold weather. It comes with having gas.


Not sure who advised gas to you but induction would have been a far superior purchase without the additional nonsense.

we had bottled gas at home when I was growing up, our gas bottle was always in the shed and the pipe came across to kitchen, was mostly yellow bottles but I think we may have used red ones also, never recal having an problems regarding cold weather, in fact I think we always thought it was handy to have the back up if the electric ever went out, which I seem to recal it going out occasionally (more than these days). Only thing I recal doing is being sent to the shed to shake the bottle or raise it up on a shelf and lay it on its side to eek every last drop out.

Lived in a rented place with large gas bottles, but that was used for a gas fire, same again, never noticed problems.

I had always thought gas hobs are much more preferable for anyone interested in cooking, electric hob types much less so.
Do induction hobs heat up at all? or do they just heat the pot? I'm reasonably aware they require a specific pot type.

Are they high users of electricity (power consumption?) any more so that other electric hob types? plate or ring?

It seems obvious there are no safety risks or they wouldn't be available, right? but are they not recommended for anyone specific? ie is there a magnetic field created (there must be if it's induction).

listermint

supersaint3 wrote: »

Induction hobs are brutal

Obviously spoken by someone that simply doesn't have one.

I have one. It heats up in an instant. It's incredibly controllable temperature output and it's abundantly safe.

Savage piece of technology the current ones are just bloody excellent.

Alot of people I'm sure your one hark back to the days of gas versus electric comparisons that's twenty years ago.

Induction simply wins now.

Shiny

This happens in my parents house in cold weather, we just pour a jug of luke warm water over the regulator and tube. Fixes the problem immediately.

supersaint3

listermint wrote: »

Obviously spoken by someone that simply doesn't have one.

I have one. It heats up in an instant. It's incredibly controllable temperature output and it's abundantly safe.

Savage piece of technology the current ones are just bloody excellent.

Alot of people I'm sure your one hark back to the days of gas versus electric comparisons that's twenty years ago.

Induction simply wins now.

I was being a bit facetious it may well do, I prefer the instant heat, excellent temp regulation, cheapness and ease of use of gas... My last place had what was a modern but prob now ten year old induction, black glass no physical buttons all modern etc, you'd be standing there hovering your finger over it for ages trying to get it going, and as for temp regulation it was either not hot enough or hotter than the sun, as I found with all the induction I experienced in my life until I started cooking with gas

Tails142

Induction is excellent, I have it and I wouldn't get gas but I think gas is probably preferable for higher temps and slightly quicker heatup, you won't see a chef cooking on induction methinks. Totally sold on induction though, way safer, no hastle, really easy to keep clean too.

The buttons are a little bit of a pain but the trade off is super easy to clean.

Magilla Gorilla

It doesn’t have to be icy weather necessarily. There seems to be some magic combination of cold/humidity that seems to do it.
Any idea if a different brand of regulator would work?
Does anyone know what exactly is happening- surely regulators have to wor in much colder climates?

CJhaughey

Cold be water getting inside the regulator depending on how you have it placed on the cylinder.
I used to get this problem but cut an old plastic bottle off and made it fit over the top of the regulator to prevent rain from hitting it directly.
I don't have those problems any longer, but I did replace my reg earlier this year when the old one failed after 13+ yrs of use.
If you keep it dry it will help a lot, the expansion of gas causes temps to drop at the regulator and it doesn't take much moisture to cause an issue with freezing.

Magilla Gorilla

CJhaughey wrote: »

Cold be water getting inside the regulator depending on how you have it placed on the cylinder.
I used to get this problem but cut an old plastic bottle off and made it fit over the top of the regulator to prevent rain from hitting it directly.
I don't have those problems any longer, but I did replace my reg earlier this year when the old one failed after 13+ yrs of use.
If you keep it dry it will help a lot, the expansion of gas causes temps to drop at the regulator and it doesn't take much moisture to cause an issue with freezing.

OK, that’s interesting, thanks. I’ll try to fashion a cover and see if it makes a difference.
The cylinder is just outside the back door, but certainly can get wet. I haven’t noticed any actual water in the regulator, but I appreciate it might be freezing inside.

Magilla Gorilla

Magilla Gorilla wrote: »

OK, that’s interesting, thanks. I’ll try to fashion a cover and see if it makes a difference.
The cylinder is just outside the back door, but certainly can get wet. I haven’t noticed any actual water in the regulator, but I appreciate it might be freezing inside.

Just to add, the regulator is horizontal, at right angles to the cylinder.

Lumen

Induction not much use in a power cut. We get a couple of those a year.

I'm being forced against my will to get induction in the new kitchen.

CJhaughey

Magilla Gorilla wrote: »

Just to add, the regulator is horizontal, at right angles to the cylinder.

Yes its situated correctly, but don't forget there is a small hole on the other side and its possible water can get in there.
Try a cover first, they cost nothing to make.

CoBo55

When I had gas I found heating the regulator with a hair dryer was much better than pouring hot water over it as it helped to drive the moisture out. Covering it with one of those aeroboard tap things helped too.

Markcheese

Magilla Gorilla wrote: »

It doesn’t have to be icy weather necessarily. There seems to be some magic combination of cold/humidity that seems to do it.
Any idea if a different brand of regulator would work?
Does anyone know what exactly is happening- surely regulators have to wor in much colder climates?

I'd be getting back into your gas fitter ...
Let him do the running around ...

listermint

supersaint3 wrote: »

I was being a bit facetious it may well do, I prefer the instant heat, excellent temp regulation, cheapness and ease of use of gas... My last place had what was a modern but prob now ten year old induction, black glass no physical buttons all modern etc, you'd be standing there hovering your finger over it for ages trying to get it going, and as for temp regulation it was either not hot enough or hotter than the sun, as I found with all the induction I experienced in my life until I started cooking with gas

My induction , 2 years old Bosch.

Heats to boil in seconds actually has a boil mode. All levels are adjustable with half measures on each.

There is no hovering over it. Just set and go.

Honestly I don't believe people have any recent experience.

As for power cuts. I've had about two last year. It wouldn't make me get gas whatsoever. It's two days if I'm stuck there a BBQ and or a camping stove.

Or you know.. the takeaway.

CoBo55

Markcheese wrote: »

I'd be getting back into your gas fitter ...
Let him do the running around ...

What's a gas fitter going to do, change the laws of physics? The regulator is getting cold because the gas is expanding into a larger space and in doing so takes heat from the surrounding area causing any moisture in the regulator to freeze. Keeping the regulator warm and dry is what's needed (dry being most important) as has been suggested by many posters.

Magilla Gorilla

CoBo55 wrote: »

What's a gas fitter going to do, change the laws of physics? The regulator is getting cold because the gas is expanding into a larger space and in doing so takes heat from the surrounding area causing any moisture in the regulator to freeze. Keeping the regulator warm and dry is what's needed (dry being most important) as has been suggested by many posters.

Thanks. I’m going to try that.
Would changing the regulator to a 4kg/hour from 1.5 kg/h make any difference? The only specs in the manual are attached.

CoBo55

Magilla Gorilla wrote: »

Thanks. I’m going to try that.
Would changing the regulator to a 4kg/hour from 1.5 kg/h make any difference? The only specs in the manual are attached.

Honestly I wouldn't bother it's just the time of year. I had a gas cooker during the massive freeze in 2010 I was using the small yellow cylinder and I was driven nuts by herself, in the end I made up a new gas pipe and regulator ( the standard grey one) and moved it into the kitchen until temperatures improved. I know I know all the high horse boys will admonish me quoting house insurance blah blah blah but it worked perfectly and I wasn't getting earache, a quiet life is a happy life!!

Lumen

CoBo55 wrote: »

What's a gas fitter going to do, change the laws of physics? The regulator is getting cold because the gas is expanding into a larger space and in doing so takes heat from the surrounding area causing any moisture in the regulator to freeze

The answer is more physics :pac:

There are approaches for cold climates which involve two stages of decompression via multiple regulators. It's the cooling of decompression which freezes the water, so if you do it in two stages there's less cooling in each regulator.

https://www.marshallexcelsior.com/sites/default/files/MEC%20Freezing%20Regulator%20Reference%20Form%201001%2C%20Rev%20A%2C%202-10-17.pdf

In moderate climates with occasional lower temperatures, consider two stages of regulation, i.e., a first stage regulator and a second stage regulator. They’re more resistant to freeze ups than integral two stage “twin” units which house both stages in the same body. In very cold climates or when long periods of heavy demand are expected, consider also using an intermediate 2 psi service, or 5 psi regulator.

CoBo55

Lumen wrote: »

The answer is more physics :pac:

There are approaches for cold climates which involve two stages of decompression via multiple regulators. It's the cooling of decompression which freezes the water, so if you do it in two stages there's less cooling in each regulator.

https://www.marshallexcelsior.com/sites/default/files/MEC%20Freezing%20Regulator%20Reference%20Form%201001%2C%20Rev%20A%2C%202-10-17.pdf

That's what I said, what's with the silly face? Expanding gas takes heat to do so. No, I'm starting to repeat myself now so I'm out. Good luck op, don't spend any money as it's only for a few days.

Lumen

CoBo55 wrote: »

That's what I said, what's with the silly face? .

I use emoticons to lighten the tone and avoid the impression of being argumentative.

Obviously that didn't work in this case. :pac: :pac: :pac:

Markcheese

CoBo55 wrote: »

What's a gas fitter going to do, change the laws of physics? The regulator is getting cold because the gas is expanding into a larger space and in doing so takes heat from the surrounding area causing any moisture in the regulator to freeze. Keeping the regulator warm and dry is what's needed (dry being most important) as has been suggested by many posters.

I didn't know gas fitters could do that , I'll think of my dad differently from now on ..
I meant more that the op has already got a new gas bottle ( a good idea anyway ) ,and a new regulator , and it hasn't really been that cold , it's a newly installed job ,
If a regulator cover fixes the job then brilliant , if it keeps happening there's something up ...
And I get that expanding gases in the tank drop the temperature of the tank ,but that system is used in loads of places in Ireland without a major hitch ..(+ the draw from just a gas hob shouldn't be that great )

bax4556

Use an old blanket to wrap around the cylinder,and keep it in situ and dry with an inverted heavy duty plastic sack...problem solved