COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

dashoonage

Cheers for the replies all. Mother in for her jab in the morning. Will take whatever is given without complaint but was just wondering which one it will be.

snotboogie

Sconsey wrote: »

Sorry I was not aware of the caveats to your argument that you had not actually mentioned. So New Zealand does not apply. But then why include Chile, Uruguay or Bahrain whose GDP is nowhere near ours. Your argument mekes even less sense now. You can include the ones that suit your argument but I cannot?

What? NZ are purposely not vaccinating because they are zero covid and waiting for results from other countries. Nothing at all to do with their GDP.

The point is that we were told that as a small country we could not compete for vaccine supply. Yet wealthy small countries who wnet it alone are the best performing in the world.

1huge1

snotboogie wrote: »

What? NZ are purposely not vaccinating because they are zero covid and waiting for results from other countries. Nothing at all to do with their GDP.

The point is that we were told that as a small country we could not compete for vaccine supply. Yet wealthy small countries who wnet it alone are the best performing in the world.

I suppose the way to look at it is that if every EU country, all 27 of them went at this indivually (big and small), we would be in a very different environment right now.

spakman

My mother is 71 and rang GP this morning as she hadn't heard anything from them about vaccine appointment.
The receptionist said she is well down the list and should get the vaccine in the next 4-6 weeks!
I hope to god they're basing that on past supplies and that they will be getting much larger supplies in the next couple of weeks. Otherwise she won't get her first dose until mid-May

Strazdas

snotboogie wrote: »

What? NZ are purposely not vaccinating because they are zero covid and waiting for results from other countries. Nothing at all to do with their GDP.

The point is that we were told that as a small country we could not compete for vaccine supply. Yet wealthy small countries who wnet it alone are the best performing in the world.

Imagine they had gone up against a Germany, France, Italy etc who were buying in hundreds of millions of vaccines and not part of any EU procurement. Germany alone could have hoovered up many tens of millions of Pfizer doses and the likes of the small wealthy countries would have been shafted in the process.

snotboogie

1huge1 wrote: »

I suppose the way to look at it is that if every EU country, all 27 of them went at this indivually (big and small), we would be in a very different environment right now.

Maybe but we were told that small countries would be brushed aside by the US, EU and China in the rush for vaccines. It hasn't happened.

Again, Singapore are as close as you can get to us in population size and economy but have 50% more vaccines adminstered than us (using only Pfizer and Moderna) and are currently vaccinating at twice our speed, despite us having two extra vaccines approved and being in a large buying block.

spakman

spakman wrote: »

My mother is 71 and rang GP this morning as she hadn't heard anything from them about vaccine appointment.
The receptionist said she is well down the list and should get the vaccine in the next 4-6 weeks!
I hope to god they're basing that on past supplies and that they will be getting much larger supplies in the next couple of weeks. Otherwise she won't get her first dose until mid-May

If the portal will be open soon for the 65-69s, then it doesn't make sense to still have people 70+ waiting weeks after that. I wonder how this will be handled - will a 70 something be able to book through the portal instead of waiting for the GP?

SusanC10

Are the EMA any closer to authorisation of Vaccine for 12-16 Age Group ?
Any chance of it being rolled out here before next school year starts ?

Looks like there could be a few issues with J&J as well, good to see they’re picking up these issues early which will hopefully show people safety is the priority.

I have no idea of age groups or anything, just saw a pop up from sky, but if it was the case it impacted on younger people more and they decided to use it on older people only, I guess it could cause some delays.

All hypothetical at this stage I guess.

snotboogie

Strazdas wrote: »

Imagine they had gone up against a Germany, France, Italy etc who were buying in hundreds of millions of vaccines and not part of any EU procurement. Germany alone could have hoovered up many tens of millions of Pfizer doses and the likes of the small wealthy countries would have been shafted in the process.

If Germany could do it, why didn't the EU do it?

Skygord

The Guardian reports Thierry Breton saying that almost all of the Halix factory AstraZeneca output will now be delivered to the EU...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/08/almost-all-dutch-made-astrazeneca-doses-will-stay-in-eu-says-brussels

astrofool

namloc1980 wrote: »

You remember incorrectly. You claimed it would take "weeks" to get back on track after the pause and I queried why they couldn't do it quicker with time being of the essence? If they have sorted out out on a well it kind of flies in the face of your stance that it would take "weeks".

So you're happy that we're back to 95% rolled out then, great And I guess the HSE hasn't messed up and we're not truly screwed.

namloc1980 wrote: »

Not really. There has been a stock built up. We've been repeatedly told by some posters that we administer 95% of what we get within days of receipt. But as of last weekend 20% of all the vaccines doses we had received were in storage and the goalposts have now been moved conveniently.

namloc1980 wrote: »

Why are you happy to give them 2-3 weeks to catch up? Surely we should be expecting much much better than that. If we can't expect them to get through a backup of stock then we're truly screwed when it'll come to mass vaccinations.

astrofool wrote:

AZ being paused will mean there is 2-3 weeks of extra vaccinations happening as all the logistics go into place to get them delivered to the right place and get them into arms, remembering that some were cancelled, and some went ahead using Pfizer, so it's not a simple case of resuming as it was minus 1 week.

astrofool wrote: »

To all these, as long as we're back to 95% of vaccines used in a couple of weeks, then everything is going to plan, if we're not, then then the HSE has messed up.

seamus

snotboogie wrote: »

If Germany could do it, why didn't the EU do it?

The EU prioritised the humanitarian approach, opting to spread the available vaccine volume thinner to ensure that globally more was available.

If the EU had taken the "grab everything we can" approach, we'd have 2m vaccines doses administered by now.

Guess it depends on someone's POV as to whether it's a good or bad thing. The US and UK's vaccine nationalism is not something either country can be proud of in a global context. It'll make their leaders popular at home, but it also sets international relations back by a number of years.

patnor1011

Since we are quite early in assessing what vaccines do or cant do there are a lot of hypothetical things at play. Only time will show.
I for one hope this doctor and his study will not be proven right.

Research article as published in Microbiology & Infectious Diseases:
https://carterheavyindustries.files.wordpress.com/2021/02/covid19-rna-based-vaccines-and-the-risk-of-prion-disease-1503.pdf

lucernarian

is_that_so wrote: »

He should not be inserting himself into this at all. Let the parties who need to, do their work and report.

I agree with you there. On this occasion there are review boards trying to do their job and in the UK they made the point that corona might be a lower risk than the AZ vaccine in under-30s, contrary to Luke's little graphic. I get his point but not sure I like his method here.

funnydoggy

patnor1011 wrote: »

Since we are quite early in assessing what vaccines do or cant do there are a lot of hypothetical things at play. Only time will show.
I for one hope this doctor and his study will not be proven right.

Research article as published in Microbiology & Infectious Diseases:
https://carterheavyindustries.files.wordpress.com/2021/02/covid19-rna-based-vaccines-and-the-risk-of-prion-disease-1503.pdf

See ye Monday, I can't cope lol..

Str8outtaWuhan

https://news.sky.com/story/eu-regulator-reviewing-possible-links-between-johnson-johnson-jab-and-blood-clots-12270444


At this stage they might as well stop vaccinating

manus35

Do you think it is fair that somebody in the vulnerable group who has previously suffered an acquired brain injury and stroke is offered the AZ vaccine when they are terrified of even the slightest possibility of suffering another one,

Been offered a vaccine that is said to be safe in Ireland as it's benefits outweigh it's risks which is a correct statement when applied to the general population but not really when you apply it to an individual who probably doesn't have much risk of infection at this point in time.

When in Countries like France they are halting it for the u55 age group as their health minister says "it is completely consistent to say that we do not recommend the AstraZeneca vaccine to people under 55 years of age while we learn more"

Shouldn't people with legitimate fears from past experience be allowed an alternative vaccine,

I understand it is down to supply at this point but the current data suggests that AZ is safe for the over 55s so why can't they move other vaccines down to other groups

hmmm

Vaccination in the UK is estimated to have saved 10,000 lives so far:
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/covid-19-jabs-prevent-10400-deaths-in-older-adults-data-shows-40290614.html

zebastein

manus35 wrote: »

Do you think it is fair that somebody in the vulnerable group who has previously suffered an acquired brain injury and stroke is offered the AZ vaccine when they are terrified of even the slightest possibility of suffering another one,

Been offered a vaccine that is said to be safe in Ireland as it's benefits outweigh it's risks which is a correct statement when applied to the general population but not really when you apply it to an individual who probably doesn't have much risk of infection at this point in time.

When in Countries like France they are halting it for the u55 age group as their health minister says "it is completely consistent to say that we do not recommend the AstraZeneca vaccine to people under 55 years of age while we learn more"

Shouldn't people with legitimate fears from past experience be allowed an alternative vaccine,

I understand it is down to supply at this point but the current data suggests that AZ is safe for the over 55s so why can't they move other vaccines down to other groups

I think it is fair you get offered a vaccine as part of being in a priority cohort.There are legitimate reasons to decline it, but that is also fair that if you decline it, you 'lose' your priority and need to wait a few weeks that supply of other vaccines before you get it.


People that decline the vaccine should not slow the vaccination for the rest of the cohorts. If we wait that a cohort gets completely vaccinated with the vaccine of their choice before moving to the next one, then we'll never finish, we'll get stocks of AZ in the fridge waiting.

The difference is that France has not based their vaccination strategy on AZ. They have plenty more Moderna than Ireland (I got 2 of my relatives in France already vaccinated with Moderna), so they can make this recommendation without slowing down the process.

hmmm

Israel may have achieved herd immunity say some of its doctors:
https://www.israel21c.org/israel-may-have-achieved-herd-immunity-against-covid-19/

56% vaccinated, and estimate of 15% with prior infections.

I find the debate in Ireland a bit odd at times, as if we are the only country in the world with Covid. Israel is the test case for all of us, and it's relatively easy (I think) to predict our future by looking at what is happening there.

dominatinMC

hmmm wrote: »

Israel may have achieved herd immunity say some of its doctors:
https://www.israel21c.org/israel-may-have-achieved-herd-immunity-against-covid-19/

56% vaccinated, and estimate of 15% with prior infections.

I find the debate in Ireland a bit odd at times, as if we are the only country in the world with Covid. Israel is the test case for all of us, and it's relatively easy (I think) to predict our future by looking at what is happening there.

Exactly. Heading into the weekend (whatever that means now, as weekends and weekdays have morphed into one for me :pac:) people need reminding of this. Whenever I'm dismayed at the cycle of negativity being bombarded to us by the news outlets here, I look towards Israel for solace. They are almost back to normal (proper, old school normal) with a few more steps left to go. And this is despite all the scary variants being in circulation. I guess the only caveat being that they are using the gold-standard Pfizer/BioNTech jab, whilst everyone else is using a combination. Anyway, things can, and only will, get better!

hmmm

dominatinMC wrote: »

They are almost back to normal (proper, old school normal) with a few more steps left to go. And this is despite all the scary variants being in circulation.

There was an interesting AMA on Reddit yesterday by Dr. Vincent Racaniello - he hosts the "This week in Virology" podcast and co-wrote "Principles of Virology" so I guess he knows what he is talking about. He had a lot to say on variants and how he thought there was too much focus on whether variants evaded antibodies e.g.

"None of the T cell epitopes in the variants are changed. T cells are the last defense of the immune system and can clear infected cells, preventing severe disease. I do not agree with the fear mongering around the variants. " and "Antibody immunity is not the whole story, but that is what mainstream media focuses on, spurred on by very prominent individuals who should know better."

https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/mmve3y/im_dr_vincent_racaniello_a_virology_professor_at/

is_that_so

SusanC10 wrote: »

Are the EMA any closer to authorisation of Vaccine for 12-16 Age Group ?
Any chance of it being rolled out here before next school year starts ?

Unknown at present. Some people reckon autumn but it could be later than that. I'm still thinking 2022 until it's clear it'll be otherwise. If and when it happens it'll probably be done in schools themselves.

Strazdas

snotboogie wrote: »

If Germany could do it, why didn't the EU do it?

But it would have been at Europe's expense. They could have vaccinated say 50m+ people in Germany by now with Pfizer, meaning most other EU countries would be on a small fraction of that - a terrible look for the EU.

seamus

Chile are using Sinovac though, which only just barely meets the threshold to qualify as a vaccine.

I agree though in principle, even if 56% turns out to be the magic number for Israel, we cannot assume the same will hold true for us. We need to keep our foot to the floor until everyone has been offered the vaccine.

What Israel will do though is properly inform the discussion on restrictions. It seems likely that we should be able to lift most restrictions by early June, leaving only boozing and large events on the shelf.

eagle eye

France and Australia moving away from AZ.
That's right an EU country moving away from AZ despite what the EMA have said.
Too much going on with this vaccine. I certainly won't be taking it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/astrazeneca-france-and-australia-pivot-to-mrna-vaccines-after-clot-findings-1.4532887?mode=amp

bennyineire

eagle eye wrote: »

France and Australia moving away from AZ.
That's right an EU country moving away from AZ despite what the EMA have said.
Too much going on with this vaccine. I certainly won't be taking it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/astrazeneca-france-and-australia-pivot-to-mrna-vaccines-after-clot-findings-1.4532887?mode=amp

I assume by that logic you will never take a long haul flight ever again so

eagle eye

bennyineire wrote: »

I assume by that logic you will never take a long haul flight ever again so

Can you exsplan that please?

Micky 32

eagle eye wrote: »

Can you exsplan that please?

Seeing that you’re more likely to get a blood clot from a long haul flight than AZ i’m guessing you have also have decided never to fly on a long haul flight again?

I hope you don’t like sports anytime soon. The government are planning to let vaccinated people into stadiums.