Average V Median wage Ireland?

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

its important to keep our prejudices in check!

Augeo wrote: »

If the tax system was rejigged so those earning their few quid kept more of it those that have the hand out would want an ole bonus or an extra few quid also.

remember now!

Interested Observer

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i ll stick with respected economic commentators opinions, and the facts that are used, and the facts that i have found myself

You're going to stick with whatever 'facts' you make up in your head and that's about it. But off you go.

Wanderer78

Interested Observer wrote: »

You're going to stick with whatever 'facts' you make up in your head and that's about it. But off you go.

i posted one of my sources, others include cso and property prices etc, tis all freely available on the internets

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

remember now!

The earn fnck all don't have their hand out?

Wanderer78

Augeo wrote: »

The earn fnck all don't have their hand out?

what?

crossman47

Benedict wrote: »

Incidentally, surely in order to establish the average, enough data must be available to also establish the median!


.

That is not true. some earnings series compiled by CSO are based on aggregate returns from employers i.e. total employees, total earnings, etc. from these you can get a mean but not a median. I think they distinguish full time so you can also get a mean for those.

Another series that does have a median comes from tax returns for individuals but these do not distinguish full and part time. Its not as easy as you seem to think. Nobody is trying to fool anyone .

stefanovich

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i ll stick with respected economic commentators opinions, and the facts that are used, and the facts that i have found myself

Micheal Hudson is a communist though. Generally not a good idea to listen to them when it comes to economics. They just want big government at any cost.

crossman47

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i ll stick with respected economic commentators opinions, and the facts that are used, and the facts that i have found myself

So ESRI are not respected?

Wanderer78

stefanovich wrote: »

Micheal Hudson is a communist though. Generally not a good idea to listen to them when it comes to economics. They just want big government at any cost.

no hes not, he classes himself as a classical economist, and no, he doesn't advocate for big government, just a democratic one

Wanderer78

crossman47 wrote: »

So ESRI are not respected?

of course they are, but they have inbuilt biases, as do all institutions

Benedict

crossman47 wrote: »

That is not true. some earnings series compiled by CSO are based on aggregate returns from employers i.e. total employees, total earnings, etc. from these you can get a mean but not a median. I think they distinguish full time so you can also get a mean for those.

Another series that does have a median comes from tax returns for individuals but these do not distinguish full and part time. Its not as easy as you seem to think. Nobody is trying to fool anyone .

I don't think it's "easy" but surely it's doable? Does nobody have sufficient data to establish a median wage figure for FT workers?


To establish the average, the total wages must be known and also the number of earners. And nobody is able to calculate the median?



Is that the same in every country I wonder? Or are we unique in not being able to calculate a median FT wage/salary?

Eric Cartman

Cyrus wrote: »

i remember re nua ran on an economic platform advocating a flat tax, they got no traction.

in reality it makes a lot of sense and removes the disincentive for progression that exists at the crossover between between the low and high rate.

They got no traction because of their stance on abortion. A fiscally conservative party with a free vote on social issues is what we need, not bible thumpers with 1 good idea

Cyrus

Eric Cartman wrote: »

They got no traction because of their stance on abortion. A fiscally conservative party with a free vote on social issues is what we need, not bible thumpers with 1 good idea

abortion ref was 66/34 so technically a 3rd of people wouldnt have had an issue with their stance in that regard, so it wasn't just abortion.

also you dont need to be a bible thumper to be anti abortion.

Benedict

Copied and pasted from Google some minutes ago:

Showing results for median wage full time workers england

Median annual earnings for full-time employees in the United Kingdom from 1999 to 2020 (in GBP)
Average earnings in GBP
2020 31,461
2019 30,378
2018 29,559
2017 28,759
9 more rows•
3 Feb 2021

Geuze

Interested Observer wrote: »

According to the ERSI income inequality in Ireland is falling.

Correct.

Income inequality has fallen in Ireland.

Now, it is possible to debate that the measures of income inequality only measure income, and don't take a wider view, fair enough.

Michael Taft is arguing that:

https://notesonthefront.typepad.com/politicaleconomy/2021/02/the-gini-coefficient-and-sushi.html

Geuze

crossman47 wrote: »

That is not true. some earnings series compiled by CSO are based on aggregate returns from employers i.e. total employees, total earnings, etc. from these you can get a mean but not a median. I think they distinguish full time so you can also get a mean for those.

Another series that does have a median comes from tax returns for individuals but these do not distinguish full and part time. Its not as easy as you seem to think. Nobody is trying to fool anyone .

This post is helpful.

I thought there must be a reason why median FT earnings aren't published.

Wanderer78

Geuze wrote: »

Correct.

Income inequality has fallen in Ireland.

Now, it is possible to debate that the measures of income inequality only measure income, and don't take a wider view, fair enough.

Michael Taft is arguing that:

https://notesonthefront.typepad.com/politicaleconomy/2021/02/the-gini-coefficient-and-sushi.html

what about overall wealth inequality?

Geuze

Benedict wrote: »

I don't think it's "easy" but surely it's doable? Does nobody have sufficient data to establish a median wage figure for FT workers?

I provided the Eurostat figures for Ireland a few pages back.

Chips Lovell

Wanderer78 wrote: »

what about overall wealth inequality?

CSO measures it every five years. Last one was 2018 and saw wealth inequality declining:

The Gini coefficient for net wealth in 2018 is 0.67, compared to 0.75 in 2013, indicating a reduction in wealth inequality over this five-year period.

Wanderer78

Chips Lovell wrote: »

CSO measures it every five years. Last one was 2018 and saw wealth inequality declining:

we generally store our wealth in assets, primarily in property and land, whats currently occurring in these sectors, also baring in mind, many younger generations are also living in a low wage inflationary environment?

Benedict

Geuze wrote: »

I provided the Eurostat figures for Ireland a few pages back.

Apologies Geuze, I understood that a median on FT wages was not available - could you indulge me and repeat the figure - if you know it? Perhaps I became muddled by graphs, figures etc.



My question is, what is the median wage for FT workers?

UK for 2020 median FT wages are 2020 £31,461 Euro 36k approx at today's conversion rates.

stefanovich

Benedict wrote: »

Apologies Geuze, I understood that a median on FT wages was not available - could you indulge me and repeat the figure - if you know it? Perhaps I became muddled by graphs, figures etc.



My question is, what is the median wage for FT workers?

You need to know individual salaries to calculate that.

Revenue should have that data.

Benedict

stefanovich wrote: »

You need to know individual salaries to calculate that.

Revenue should have that data.

Should have - yes, but I can't find it - can you?


Geuze appears to have the elusive figure. Hopefully he will tell us what it is.

The UK have published the median FT wage as I have shown.

crossman47

stefanovich wrote: »

You need to know individual salaries to calculate that.

Revenue should have that data.

I don't think Revenue use full/part time as a classification. I was never asked which I am and they don't ask for hours worked.

crossman47

Benedict wrote: »

Should have - yes, but I can't find it - can you?


Geuze appears to have the elusive figure. Hopefully he will tell us what it is.

The UK have published the median FT wage as I have shown.

I think the problem is that CSO have replaced the Structure of Earnings Survey (which gave a median for 2014) with data based on administrative sources (Revenue) https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-eaads/earningsanalysisusingadministrativedatasources2018/backgroundnotes/.

This specifically states full and part time are not distinguished. No doubt this was an attempt by CSO to use existing sources and not burden employers with further form filling.

I did post this estimate already : In 2018 for all workers, the median was 36k when the mean was 44k. Based on that, I would think the median for full time workers must be in the region of 38 to 41K. I don't think its possible for CSO to calculate a median as they base their data on aggregate data from employers.

ELM327

crossman47 wrote: »

I think the problem is that CSO have replaced the Structure of Earnings Survey (which gave a median for 2014) with data based on administrative sources (Revenue) https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-eaads/earningsanalysisusingadministrativedatasources2018/backgroundnotes/.

This specifically states full and part time are not distinguished. No doubt this was an attempt by CSO to use existing sources and not burden employers with further form filling.

I did post this estimate already : In 2018 for all workers, the median was 36k when the mean was 44k. Based on that, I would think the median for full time workers must be in the region of 38 to 41K. I don't think its possible for CSO to calculate a median as they base their data on aggregate data from employers.

The median is skewed as most large companies provide mean average salaries rather than person per person info.

Geuze

Benedict wrote: »

Apologies Geuze, I understood that a median on FT wages was not available - could you indulge me and repeat the figure - if you know it? Perhaps I became muddled by graphs, figures etc.

See posts 106 and 107.

Also 44, 45, 46.

crossman47

ELM327 wrote: »

The median is skewed as most large companies provide mean average salaries rather than person per person info.

My point was they provide aggregates so it is not possible to calculate a median.

Benedict

Geuze wrote: »

See posts 106 and 107.

Also 44, 45, 46.

Look Geuze, Leo is able to give a figure and say this is the average. He doesn't present us with a litany of "income by age" "income by sex" blah blah.


It's a single figure just below 49k


The UK median wages for FT workers is a single figure - not a plethora of graphs and a litany of qualifications.


As far as you are aware:


(a) is there a figure for a median salary/wages for FT worker?
(b) do you know what it is?
(c) If you know, can you just say what it is ple-e-ease?
(d) If you don't know, then thanks anyway - but please say so.

stefanovich

Benedict wrote: »

Look Geuze, Leo is able to give a figure and say this is the average. He doesn't present us with a litany of "income by age" "income by sex" blah blah.


It's a single figure just below 49k


The UK median wages for FT workers is a single figure - not a plethora of graphs and a litany of qualifications.


As far as you are aware:


(a) is there a figure for a median salary/wages for FT worker?
(b) do you know what it is?
(c) If you know, can you just say what it is ple-e-ease?
(d) If you don't know, then thanks anyway - but please say so.

https://data.gov.ie/dataset/bution-of-income-tax-by-type-of-gross-income-range-of-gross-income-marital-status-year-and-statistic