Ireland v France 2021 6n

mr_edge_to_you

Utah_Saint wrote: »

I'd have to ask, what has Catt done with this team? No power plays or tricky back moves.

He's bringing his experience which he earned as attack coach in Italy for 4 years to to the Irish setup.

UAEguy2020

almostover wrote: »

I see you're point in respect to our attack and its very justified. I think where we have regressed most is the silly defensive errors however. Even under Schmidt we never had a razor sharp attack. What we had were some excellent set piece moves and strike plays and a super mean defence that gave nothing away. It only took 2-3 well executed moves per game for us to win because we gave the opposition no easy points, both from the boot or from tries. Since Farrell has taken over we've not improved our attack play one iota and we're making numerous defensive mistakes gifting our opposition easy points. For me any good team is built on a mean defence. Once that is nailed you can add attacking flair.

Not just defensive errors, just errors in general. I don’t think our defense has been that bad, I think last week being a man down really screwed us over and today while we weren’t great France will always find a way to score tries so can’t really be overly critical today. The problem is the attack as we spin it wide and once it gets to the end we just cut inside without fixing any defenders to the build
Up and eventually we just kick the ball. We draw no defender and as a result find 0 gaps for the line break. This isn’t even rocket science, even Italy are able to do it but whatever reason we are just stuck in our ways.

basill

walshb wrote: »

Good one.

Rugby is NZls national game..

They eat, live and breathe the sport for chrissake!

Wales the same!

156,893 versus 153,080.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rugby_union_playing_countries

walshb

PokeHerKing wrote: »

You don't even know the population of the island that our rugby team is drawn from. You're out of your depth.

Circa 6.5 million the island..

Anyway,

Point lost on you

NZ eat, live and breathe rugby..

We never have and never will

It is not near to the level of NZ as regards its influence and importance and significance..

OldRio

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

He's bringing his experience which he earned as attack coach in Italy for 4 years to to the Irish setup.

This a million times.

hahashake

You know Ireland has lost when people are comparing numbers playing in NZ.

PokeHerKing

walshb wrote: »

Circa 6.5 million the island..

Anyway,

Point lost on you

NZ eat, live and breathe rugby..

We never have and never will

It is not near to the level of NZ as regards its influence and importance and significance..

You originally quoted the pop of the Republic because you didn't factor in the North for an all island sport. Go back to the boxing forum.

UAEguy2020

walshb wrote: »

Circa 6.5 million the island..

Anyway,

Point lost on you

NZ eat, live and breathe rugby..

We never have and never will

It is not near to the level of NZ as regards its influence and importance and significance..

The point isn’t lost because the argument you initially made as been totally debunked when NZL comes into it.

gally74

The poorest decision today was sending Healy and Henderson after a that head clash,

It stinks, you have to trust the bench!

walshb

PokeHerKing wrote: »

You originally quoted the pop of the Republic because you didn't factor in the North for an all island sport. Go back to the boxing forum.

I did factor in the island..

I simply said 5 million. I knew that was off by a bit.

Well done on the spotting..

We all know rugby is all island, as is amateur boxing

walshb

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

The point isn’t lost because the argument you initially made as been totally debunked when NZL comes into it.

You didn’t read the argument

You are fixated on population alone..

Nobody said that only population was the issue..

almostover

For me the most disappointing thing today was not to give Craig Casey a crack of the whip for 10 mins. We had nothing to lose for the final 10 mins.

UAEguy2020

walshb wrote: »

I did factor in the island..

I simply said 5 million. I knew that was off by a bit.

Well done on the spotting..

We all know rugby is all island, as is amateur boxing

If you are making a weak as piss argument atleast get the basics right...

PokeHerKing

walshb wrote: »

I did factor in the island..

I simply said 5 million. I knew that was off by a bit.

Well done on the spotting..

We all know rugby is all island, as is amateur boxing

You were simply wrong. Better to admit and move on. Population is not the reason we lost to France. Its a lazy uninformed opinion. As I said, stick to the boxing.

walshb

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

If you are making a weak as piss argument atleast get the basics right...

The basics are circa 6.5 million ..

I knew after I posted 5 million it was off..

I let it go..

Anyway, get off the population buzz..

Like I said, there is more to it than just population

UAEguy2020

walshb wrote: »

You didn’t read the argument

You are fixated on population alone..

Nobody said that only population was the issue..

The points you made aren’t a valid excuse to accept mediocrity. Maybe if you are Wales or Scotland you’d have a point but in Ireland we have a strong provincial game, the finances required to keep players at home, we actually have a lot going for us but sadly we seem to settle for less as a rugby nation because of our size.

awec

Just had to re-read this thread from start to finish. Some cards, some bans handed out. Ensure you stick to the charter and don't be a dick if you want to keep posting here.

TomsOnTheRoof

Faugheen wrote: »

You were watching a different game then.

Probably the only player to get consistent go-forward ball against an exceptional French defense. Won a line out and a breakdown steal as well.

What more does he have to do?

He made 10 metres from 10 carries. When other backrows had stats like that this place was like a lunatic asylum with people howling for them to be dropped. If that's consistent go forward ball then my aunt is Teddy Sheringham.

UAEguy2020

walshb wrote: »

The basics are circa 6.5 million ..

I knew after I posted 5 million it was off..

I let it go..

Anyway, get off the population buzz..

Like I said, there is more to it than just population

Your other points aren’t much better.

walshb

PokeHerKing wrote: »

You were simply wrong. Better to admit and move on. Population is not the reason we lost to France. Its a lazy uninformed opinion. As I said, stick to the boxing.

It was wrong. The pop is circa 6.5 million..

Said that couple times now..

And grow up with the nonsense childish “go back to the boxing forum.”

PokeHerKing

walshb wrote: »

It was wrong. The pop is circa 6.5 million..

Said that couple times now..

And grow up with the nonsense childish “go back to the boxing forum.”

Bringing up population was nonsense. How many countries over/under perform in all aspects of life regardless of population

SCOOP 64

So who's the favourites to win this now?

Niallof9

Croatia is a classic example of how bad we're doing in many sports.However Leinster are our Hadjuk Split. For many reasons its not being translated into the international arena. Yest its a step up but we're diluting quality with inferior players and inferior tactics, much like happened in the past when Munster were the dominant force.

Population shouldn't be part of the excuse. Its sad to see some people clawing at excuses. The players themselves left this ****e years ago, so people should stop.

In fairness GAA "robs" us of serious athletic talent in comparison to NZ.

walshb

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Bringing up population was nonsense. How many countries over/under perform in all aspects of life regardless of population

Population is one area

Not the only area..

Unless you are saying it cannot at all be considered?

Faugheen

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

He made 10 metres from 10 carries. When other backrows had stats like that this place was like a lunatic asylum with people howling for them to be dropped. If that's consistent go forward ball then my aunt is Teddy Sheringham.

So he made meters off every carry he made on average.

Sounds exactly like you want your 6 to be doing.

He also won a line out and a steal on the ground. How quick was Ireland’s ball today? He had a big hand in that.

He was one of Ireland’s best players today. Anyone who claims otherwise doesn’t actually watch the game.

PokeHerKing

Niallof9 wrote: »

Croatia is a classic example of how bad we're doing. Population shouldn't be part of the excuse. Its sad to see some people clawing at excuses. The players themselves left this ****e years ago, so people should stop.

In fairness GAA "robs" us of serious athletic talent in comparison to NZ.

Gaa is an amateur sport. People overstate how much its denying us of professional grade sportspeople.

walshb

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Gaa is an amateur sport. People overstate how much its denying us of professional grade sportspeople.

Amateur or pro is not relevant

Far more people participate in it

Far more historical influence

Far more clubs

GAA is our National game

Rugby never has been a massively participated sport

It is down the list.

UAEguy2020

walshb wrote: »

Amateur or pro is not relevant

Far more people participate in it

Far more historical influence

Far more clubs

GAA is our National game

Rugby never has been a massively participated sport

It is down the lust..

Rugby is a massively participated sport, stop talking crap. Just excuse after excuse after excuse to accept mediocrity.

walshb

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Rugby is a massively participated sport, stop talking crap. Just excuse after excuse after excuse to accept mediocrity.

Ok,

So compared to GAA it is not near the same level..

That was the point..

Probably 8-10 times more GAA clubs!!

So winning 5/8 games v France and losing by a score today is mediocrity?

UAEguy2020

walshb wrote: »

Ok,

So compared to GAA it is not near the same level..

That was the point..

Probably 8-10 times more GAA clubs!!

But it’s an irrelevant point as out participation numbers are still good enough that we shouldn’t be settling for dross.

Lost Ormond

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Gaa is an amateur sport. People overstate how much its denying us of professional grade sportspeople.

There is large numbers who dont get the access to playing rugby with the influence of GAA. It very much does deny us a considerable number of potential pro rugby players.

walshb wrote: »

Amateur or pro is not relevant

Far more people participate in it

Far more historical influence

Far more clubs

GAA is our National game

Rugby never has been a massively participated sport

It is down the list.

it is a massively participated sport in terms of all sports. Its one of top 5 most popular.

walshb

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

But it’s an irrelevant point as out participation numbers are still good enough that we shouldn’t be settling for dross.

This explains it so

Typical George Hook..

Dying to slag and criticise..calling the team dross because they lost by a score today..

walshb

Lost Ormond wrote: »

There is large numbers who dont get the access to playing rugby with the influence of GAA. It very much does deny us a considerable number of potential pro rugby players.


it is a massively participated sport in terms of all sports. Its one of top 5 most popular.

I get that it is up there

Probably 200 clubs in the country

My point was more in comparison to GAA

Far more people and importance and significance goes to GAA..

piplip87

walshb wrote: »

Amateur or pro is not relevant

Far more people participate in it

Far more historical influence

Far more clubs

GAA is our National game

Rugby never has been a massively participated sport

It is down the list.

Exactly look back 10 or 15 years and compare club membership for a 10 year old child. Rugby you could be talking about a couple of hundred while GAA would have been 20 or 30 and if there was a young fella whose parents couldn't afford the 20 or 30 it would be covered.

Weather we like it or not rugby was seen as an elitist sport and has suffered massively from it. Even my own Rugby club wouldnt be too keen on recruiting lads from council estates to this day.

Admittedly there has been massive changes in rugby but you cannot blame the GAA for stealing rugby players when for decades those same GAA players wouldnt be wanted near the rugby grounds.

SCOOP 64

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

So who's the favourites to win this now?

France are still favourites to win the championship at least.

They should have had the game finished off with 20 minutes to go here today

Pure butchery on their part for 2 tries and obviously Ireland were fortunate with that bounce for the try

I think that they will get better

They have all the tools there at their disposal

walshb

Compared to France..they have maybe 8-10 times more rugby clubs than we do

This has to be a factor..

Lost Ormond

piplip87 wrote: »

Exactly look back 10 or 15 years and compare club membership for a 10 year old child. Rugby you could be talking about a couple of hundred while GAA would have been 20 or 30 and if there was a young fella whose parents couldn't afford the 20 or 30 it would be covered.

Weather we like it or not rugby was seen as an elitist sport and has suffered massively from it. Even my own Rugby club wouldnt be too keen on recruiting lads from council estates to this day.

Admittedly there has been massive changes in rugby but you cannot blame the GAA for stealing rugby players when for decades those same GAA players wouldnt be wanted near the rugby grounds.

There isnt many if any rugby clubs like especially considering the location of most clubs It was perceptions but that isnt near the truth especially saying those players wouldnt be wanted near rugby grounds. countless examples to counter that point

almostover

Niallof9 wrote: »

Croatia is a classic example of how bad we're doing in many sports.However Leinster are our Hadjuk Split. For many reasons its not being translated into the international arena. Yest its a step up but we're diluting quality with inferior players and inferior tactics, much like happened in the past when Munster were the dominant force.

Population shouldn't be part of the excuse. Its sad to see some people clawing at excuses. The players themselves left this ****e years ago, so people should stop.

In fairness GAA "robs" us of serious athletic talent in comparison to NZ.

In fairness Croatia have made the semi finals of a world cup

prawnsambo

glasso wrote: »

France are still favourites to win the championship at least.

They should have had the game finished off with 20 minutes to go here today

Pure butchery on their part for 2 tries and obviously Ireland were fortunate with that bounce for the try

I think that they will get better

They have all the tools there at their disposal

They got a bit sloppy under defensive pressure, Dupont threw a pass at Le Roux's head (I think it was him) with the line begging. And their lineout needs work too. Scrum also had a few wobbles and they gave up a lot of silly penalties. They'd want to sharpen those areas up when they play England.

The Inbetween is mine

almostover wrote: »

In fairness Croatia have made the semi finals of a world cup

And we've never gone beyond the quarter finals!

almostover

Lost Ormond wrote: »

There is large numbers who dont get the access to playing rugby with the influence of GAA. It very much does deny us a considerable number of potential pro rugby players.


it is a massively participated sport in terms of all sports. Its one of top 5 most popular.

Between population comparisons and the GAA, we're gone way off topic on here. Having said that if Cillian O'Connor had started at no.10 today and David Clifford was at 12 our playmaking ability would have seen us over the line ...

UAEguy2020

walshb wrote: »

Compared to France..they have maybe 8-10 times more rugby clubs than we do

This has to be a factor..

How is it a factor?

UAEguy2020

walshb wrote: »

This explains it so

Typical George Hook..

Dying to slag and criticise..calling the team dross because they lost by a score today..

If you are okay with losing than fair enough.

walshb

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

How is it a factor?

When you have a far larger pool to select from it can allow you more to play with...including g back up

Why am I explaining this to you?

Take track and Field

Ireland v France..

They have far more medals in global championships than us.

Why? Well, part of the reason is their pool size..

It absolutely plays a part...

The more population you have the chances of succeeding and winning at sports can be influenced..

Same reason why countries like England and the U.S. and Brazil and China have far more medals in the Olympics than we do..

Population size helps..it’s basic stats..

OldRio

I know this is a bit mad, a bit out there but
GETTING BACK TO THE MATCH

positives... Scrum. Lineout. Good game plan the first half. The forwards. A new number 9 and 10.

negatives...A few penalties in the defensive lineout (Lifters). No offloading. The backs. Mike Catt.Some of the defending by certain players.

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

They got a bit sloppy under defensive pressure, Dupont threw a pass at Le Roux's head (I think it was him) with the line begging. And their lineout needs work too. Scrum also had a few wobbles and they gave up a lot of silly penalties. They'd want to sharpen those areas up when they play England.

yes they were far from perfect

but their defence was good and they were dynamic and dangerous in attack.

yes they butchered two pretty-much certain tries but they also made those chances.

Scotland next (at home if that actually means anything) who I think that will beat

They are still favourites for the championship

Dupont was trying to be a bit too fast on a couple of occasions today

right idea but didn't always get it right

still class offload and a couple of breaks from him

UAEguy2020

walshb wrote: »

When you have a far larger pool to select from it can allow you more to play with...including g back up

Why am I explaining this to you?

Take track and Field

Ireland v France..

They have far more medals in global championships than us.

Why? Well, part of the reason is their pool size..

It absolutely plays a part...

The more population you have the chances of succeeding and winning at some sports can be influenced..

Same reason why countries like England and the U.S. and Brazil and China have far more medals in the Olympics..

Population size helps..it’s basic stats..

It is irrelevant because it’s still 23 v 23 at the end of the day and at the end of the day our 23 was good enough to beat their 23 but their 23 looked organized and had a game plan whereas we look totally bereft of ideas.

This really is such a loser mentality and if this is going to be the excuse every time we lose to France or England we can happily take our QF RWC exit now instead of wait 2 years.

walshb

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

It is irrelevant because it’s still 23 v 23 at the end of the day and at the end of the day our 23 was good enough to beat their 23 but their 23 looked organized and had a game plan whereas we look totally bereft of ideas.

This really is such a loser mentality and if this is going to be the excuse every time we lose to France or England we can happily take our QF RWC exit now instead of wait 2 years.

Your OTT slagging them because they lost a match is the issue..

Labeling them dross for losing a rugby match v France is the problem

And why does it have to be dross because we haven’t gotten past a QF stage of a WC?

We are not the best rugby team for in the world. Never were, despite rankings..

cantwbr1

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Gaa is an amateur sport. People overstate how much its denying us of professional grade sportspeople.

That’s completely wrong. Each GAA county panel has 30 top end athletes with ball skills that are transferable to rugby. That’s >900 players who consistently perform at a high level. Do you not think that they would improve the rugby playing pool if they were available?

Field east

PokeHerKing wrote: »

I chose New Zealand because of the OP reference to Ireland population, inaccurate as it was. Using population as the barometer for sporting success falls flat on its face on many facets but NZ felt like a very apt example to prove my point.

So Italy should beat ireland by the proverbial cricket score EVERYTIME because it has a pop of 60 + million.