NI to Scotland tunnel?

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Battery Tech is not far from having both a battery ferry between Larne/Cairnryan and battery turboprop from Belfast City Airport serving Glasgow and Edinburgh.
British channel exists because it was chalk that was eroded away. Harder rock up there between Ireland and Scotland.

How big a gas generator do you need to charge a battery ferry?

RandomViewer

AMKC wrote: »

Thankfully and about time too. I know I might regret saying that in the future but if Irish were not so thick and stupid that they all thought they needed diesel cars then there would be no need to import a car from the UK.
Buy local and support your local mechanics or showrooms. I am glad it has been made uneconomic to buy a car from the UK now even if it does leave us with less choice

Less choice, poverty spec cars and a cartel in the SiMI, VRT should now be scrapped on all new cars

VinLieger

VinLieger wrote: »

Great argument you've got there, also your suddenly now worried about the planet?

I've always been worried about the planet, haven't you?

We have what, 50 years worth of fossil fuels left which means the cost will go up as more countries fight over scarce resources.

Even with battery operated transport, you are effectively loading a battery operated ship, with battery operated lorries. What is the environmental impact of all these batteries? can they all be recycled or are we just solving one problem and creating another one?

One train can take over 50 lorries off the road and can be permanently connected to the grid, so no need for huge batteries and if there is, then you are still taking 50 lorries, per train, off the roads.

Which makes more sense, exploring different options of putting a permanent rail connection in place between Ireland and the UK/France or taking the "ah sure it'll be grand" approach and hoping that someone comes up with a solution to keep the ferries and trains running?

VinLieger wrote: »

Wasnt Brexit also about bringing industrial manufacturing back to the UK? Whats a massive downside to any form of large scale industrial manufacturing?

Not to mention the whole "we will just trade with countries that are further away" argument... how do goods get to the UK from these countries?

errr, wtf are you on about?

RandomViewer

RandomViewer wrote: »

How big a gas generator do you need to charge a battery ferry?

Are you using that as an excuse to continue burning highly polluting heavy oil as Ferries arrive in Larne, Cairnryan and Belfast City?

NeuralNetwork

Ferries are pretty fuel efficient as transport goes. The trucks that are on board in terms of fuel used per km an ton carried are far more signifiant an environmental cost.

Without a comprehensive U.K. and European zero emissions fright system, a tunnel would have very little impact on fossil fuel dependence.

In 50 years time you could be looking at biofuels, battery storage, hydrogen fuel cells or all sorts of other solutions for ships that would solve that issue with far far less energy use than an unprecedentedly deep sea tunnel to a remote part of Scotland.

If you look at a ship like the Brittany Ferries Pont Aven, it even scrubs all of its stack emissions.

Ferries have the advantage of being huge and low friction (floating on the sea) so fitting them out with alternative energy solutions and emissions reduction systems isn’t that challenging compared to small vehicles like trucks or cars.

RandomViewer

Aegir wrote: »

I've always been worried about the planet, haven't you?

We have what, 50 years worth of fossil fuels left which means the cost will go up as more countries fight over scarce resources.

Even with battery operated transport, you are effectively loading a battery operated ship, with battery operated lorries. What is the environmental impact of all these batteries? can they all be recycled or are we just solving one problem and creating another one?

One train can take over 50 lorries off the road and can be permanently connected to the grid, so no need for huge batteries and if there is, then you are still taking 50 lorries, per train, off the roads.

Which makes more sense, exploring different options of putting a permanent rail connection in place between Ireland and the UK/France or taking the "ah sure it'll be grand" approach and hoping that someone comes up with a solution to keep the ferries and trains running?



errr, wtf are you on about?

Greens don't think technology or extraction methods can improve, they base everything on 1970s American studies and the fuel economy of Chevrolet Camaro

VinLieger

Aegir wrote: »

errr, wtf are you on about?

Youve a long history on this site of being pro-brexit and having a massive bias towards the Tory government.


Since you arent going to even try to engage in good faith ill just put you back on ignore again.

https://twitter.com/alanferrier/status/1360910463412953092

VinLieger

VinLieger wrote: »

Youve a long history on this site of being pro-brexit and having a massive bias towards the Tory government.

so you can point me to those pro Brexit posts I ahve made then?

VinLieger wrote: »

Since you arent going to even try to engage in good faith ill just put you back on ignore again.

what?

I gave my thoughts, what are yours?

What is your solution?

NeuralNetwork

They’re not even capable of delivering the HS2 rail project and that’s between dense areas of England, guaranteeing probably tens of millions of passengers using what is at this stage standard TGV-style infrastructure, yet this proposing a high speed rail project that’s vastly more complex and larger (needs a TGV line to Scotland) and what would be an unprecedentedly deep sea tunnel though what is likely hard rock and that’s somehow credible ?!

That’s before you even start to consider the relatively small population or connects and the lack of onward links due to having cut themselves off from the continent with Boris’s Big Brexit Bureaucracy™

Lurching

I think they should stop considering historic technology.
Grant Elon planning permission to build the first functioning hyperloop.
At least if it was built commercially, they'd do the right assessments on returns and actually make progress in a timely manner.

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are you using that as an excuse to continue burning highly polluting heavy oil as Ferries arrive in Larne, Cairnryan and Belfast City?

Yes because heavy oil is less polluting in the ferry as it just burns whats needed unlike a power station running full tilt powering next to nothing,

Rawr

Beauford's Dyke limits the route options for any tunnel between Scotland and Northern Ireland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort%27s_Dyke

Not only do you have a deep underwater trench to deal with...but the trench itself is filled with live explosives from both World Wars and all manner of dangerous waste.

For Forks Sake

This isn't happening, and this is the primary reason why it's a nonsense idea:: https://expeditionwriter.com/undersea-arsenal-poisoned-oceans-part-5-beaufort-dyke-and-the-missing-munitions/

timmyntc

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

They’re not even capable of delivering the HS2 rail project and that’s between dense areas of England, guaranteeing probably tens of millions of passengers using what is at this stage standard TGV-style infrastructure, yet this proposing a high speed rail project that’s vastly more complex and larger (needs a TGV line to Scotland) and what would be an unprecedentedly deep sea tunnel though what is likely hard rock and that’s somehow credible ?!

That’s before you even start to consider the relatively small population or connects and the lack of onward links due to having cut themselves off from the continent with Boris’s Big Brexit Bureaucracy™

It's not practical because its the UK.
The land of red-tape and the bureacracy.

Of course it seems a bit mad to connect the bustling metropolis of Belfast with the economic powerhouse of Scotland :rolleyes: but a piece of infrastructure like that would no doubt incentivise huge investment & growth in those places.

Rosslare-Fishguard or Dublin-Holyhead would be a nicer idea if we're going for fictional future infrastructure, but if the UK wanted to connect two of it's 'territories', it would be a good idea if it didnt have the ineptitude and red-tape of the UK, which guarantees that the project would stretch for decades and the budget would balloon and it would never be done.

Put it this way - if it were China trying to build a tunnel under these conditions, we wouldn't think it was so pie in the sky (shoddy workmanship aside)

RandomViewer

RandomViewer wrote: »

Yes because heavy oil is less polluting in the ferry as it just burns whats needed unlike a power station running full tilt powering next to nothing,

Do you understand what heavy oil is and how much contaminant is in it?
It's a lot more than co2 and nox that you need worry about with bunker fuel.

NeuralNetwork

You have to hand it to Johnson. He’s one slick PR operator!

Previously angry Northern Ireland unionists now distracted by magic crayons on map nonsense project.

Internet forums and social media amplifying message talking nonsense.

Brexiteers given more hot air to inhale.

Distracts from that coronavirus narrative that was impacting poll ratings.

Tabloids giving excellent write up. Spiffing!

Hurrah!

All he needs now is a big British flag emblazoned shovel, a hard hat with Union flag, maybe some overalls and a photo shoot in Belfast, with perfectly messy hair.

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do you understand what heavy oil is and how much contaminant is in it?
It's a lot more than co2 and nox that you need worry about with bunker fuel.

Most manufacturing plants have heavy oil burners to create steam, theres filters on the exhaust, suppose you want to close all them too?

I ask you about highly polluting heavy oil in Ferries and you go completely off topic. Why are you evasive?

McMurphy

There's no rail connection between Belfast city, and Belfast International airport (30km away)

Yet they're going to embark on constructing a tunnel between the north, and Scotland?

Feck off.

Fred Cryton

Donald Trump wrote: »

Build a big wall across the sea and let them walk across the top.

I love walls

Interestingly there are Dutch and German plans to dam the entire North sea due to rising sea levels. So a dam here would make some sense in that context - basically a big wall with a road on top.

Keyzer

This is the most economically unviable nonsense I've ever read.

Would make more sense to build a tunnel from Norway to Zimbabwe.

road_high

Should we not be looking at something instead from Dublin to North Wales? Granted a longer route but much sensibly viable in terms of business, trade, population location and infrastructure either side.
NI to Scotland is backwater to backwater.

road_high

road_high wrote: »

Should we not be looking at something instead from Dublin to North Wales? Granted a longer route but much sensibly viable in terms of business, trade, population location and infrastructure either side.
NI to Scotland is backwater to backwater.

Rosslare to Fishguard probably makes sense as well, I can't imagine an Irish government ever considering such an idea though.

irish_goat

McMurphy wrote: »

There's no rail connection between Belfast city, and Belfast International airport (30km away).

Is there a need for one?

LXFlyer

road_high wrote: »

Should we not be looking at something instead from Dublin to North Wales? Granted a longer route but much sensibly viable in terms of business, trade, population location and infrastructure either side.
NI to Scotland is backwater to backwater.

The whole point of this is Johnson paying lip service to the DUP about strengthening their “precious union”. Nothing more than that.

It hasn’t any basis in reality.

JasonStatham

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

You have to hand it to Johnson. He’s one slick PR operator!

Previously angry Northern Ireland unionists now distracted by magic crayons on map nonsense project.

Internet forums and social media amplifying message talking nonsense.

Brexiteers given more hot air to inhale.

Distracts from that coronavirus narrative that was impacting poll ratings.

Tabloids giving excellent write up. Spiffing!

Hurrah!

All he needs now is a big British flag emblazoned shovel, a hard hat with Union flag, maybe some overalls and a photo shoot in Belfast, with perfectly messy hair.

Lol. That's the best thing I've seen all day.

VinLieger

road_high wrote: »

Should we not be looking at something instead from Dublin to North Wales? Granted a longer route but much sensibly viable in terms of business, trade, population location and infrastructure either side.
NI to Scotland is backwater to backwater.

No because no such project could ever recoup the cost in anything close to a reasonable timeframe, the euro tunnel still hasnt broken even so consider how long would it take to payoff a far longer and far deeper tunnel on a much less traveled or important route.

VinLieger

VinLieger wrote: »

No because no such project could ever recoup the cost in anything close to a reasonable timeframe, the euro tunnel still hasnt broken even so consider how long would it take to payoff a far longer and far deeper tunnel on a much less traveled or important route.

So what’s your solution?

CelticRambler

Aegir wrote: »

So what’s your solution?

What's the problem to which you're asking for a solution?