Norma Foley has to go [MOD WARNING IN 1ST POST]

Stewie Griffin

History Queen wrote: »

Did you read what I said at all? I asked for an example so I could read up and inform myself about the countries across Europe that you think are doing a good job? I'm not against leaving cert reform at all. If you read my earlier posts on this thread I spoke about being at meetings about the reform.

Some might say that answering a completely different question to what was asked reminds one of a certain minister.......

iamwhoiam

Gatling wrote: »

Suggestion to open schools next month with junior and senior enfants taking priority along with first and second classes ( communion years )
Never mind those who have to prepare for secondary having missed a fair Chunk of last year

I read somewhere that 6 th class would be next in line . Sorry I can’t find where i read it

Gatling

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I read somewhere that 6 th class would be next in line . Sorry I can’t find where i read it

They should be brought back first been they are most likely struggling with this more the babies only a few months in

iamwhoiam

Gatling wrote: »

They should be brought back first been they are most likely struggling with this more the babies only a few months in

Not sure I agree with you . Junior infants cannot engage online and are at a critical development stage

lawrencesummers

Gatling wrote: »

Suggestion to open schools next month with junior and senior enfants taking priority along with first and second classes ( communion years )
Never mind those who have to prepare for secondary having missed a fair Chunk of last year

There is no way on earth that communions should be going ahead. This needs to be said and said quickly.


It’s not required and can easily wait a year.


Communions have been the source of a lot of large outbreaks because people just simply won’t keep it simple when it’s their child’s big day.


And that’s before you even get into discussing the mammoth of wasted classroom time that goes into communion preparation which clearly in the current situation can be better used to actually teach children something

OEP

ArrBee wrote: »

Fair enough.
If those are required to calculate a grade, I can see the problem.
Seems easy enough to overcome it if planning for this situation happens and doesn't meet immovable opposition.

It's too late for planning now, I don't see how it could be overcome

Gatling

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Not sure I agree with you . Junior infants cannot engage online and are at a critical development stage

They don't need to engage there only covering the basics for most part ,
I believe the older kids should be a priority over enfants

Gatling

lawrencesummers wrote: »

There is no way on earth that communions should be going ahead. This needs to be said and said quickly.


It’s not required and can easily wait a year.


Communions have been the source of a lot of large outbreaks because people just simply won’t keep it simple when it’s their child’s big day.


And that’s before you even get into discussing the mammoth of wasted classroom time that goes into communion preparation which clearly in the current situation can be better used to actually teach children something

I'm in total agreement it's a complete and utter was of teaching and class time ,if parents wanted it nothing stopping them doing it in their own time

byhookorbycrook

Gatling wrote: »

They don't need to engage there only covering the basics for most part ,
I believe the older kids should be a priority over enfants

Teacher here . Infants certainly need to engage. If they don’t get a good start - and I’m not talking just about the academic sphere, they will struggle in many ways . Why do you think there’s a “ free” play school year ?

People who aren’t involved in teaching may fail to realise that the Aistear curriculum, the social , emotional and motor skills are the very building blocks on which a child’s development will grow or fail .

Gatling

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

People who aren’t involved in teaching may fail to realise that the Aistear curriculum, the social , emotional and motor skills are the very building blocks on which a child’s development will grow or fail .

I know more about aistear than most teachers ,but I still believe the younger classes could be brought back later than the older kids ,imo some kids will likely come back better off and being more mature even when they come back but it's all down to how invested parent are with younger kids , with doing some reading and some writing ,
Kids missing best part of 12 months schooling before moving to secondary with little or no supports , there could be bigger issues in the near future with aniexty in secondary

iamwhoiam

Gatling wrote: »

They don't need to engage there only covering the basics for most part ,
I believe the older kids should be a priority over enfants

They absolutely do need to engage .

Gatling

iamwhoiam wrote: »

They absolutely do need to engage .

Others need more and others who need it more have more or less being left to their own devices with little access to teachers who apparently don't have time ,where others have gone above and beyond to help their classes

jam17032010

blanch152 wrote: »

The NCCA is controlled by the teacher unions meaning curriculum reform is minimal.

Well that's rubbish anyway. The NCCA is controlled by civil servants with qualifications in education theory and zero classroom experience.

shesty

Gatling wrote: »

They don't need to engage there only covering the basics for most part ,
I believe the older kids should be a priority over enfants

I have a Senior infant.Online learning is useless.Even with the very detailed plan the teacher sends, it is about 50 minutes of work per day max.The teacher does a 10 minute zoom daily.She lost 3 months of JI and the teacher has worked incredibly hard with them this year, their reading and writing has improved no ends since Sept, but I can see all I am achieving is to keep her ticking over.She is literally at a formative part of education though....learning to read and write.The most important of all the basics. I suspect 6th class are far more able to manage their own work, sit and do schoolwork for much longer without constant supervision, and engage in taught lessons far more.

None of this is right, they should all be going back, but to suggest Infants can manage fine with online learning is not realistic.

shesty

Gatling wrote: »

Others need more and others who need it more have more or less being left to their own devices with little access to teachers who apparently don't have time ,where others have gone above and beyond to help their classes

Clearly Gatling this is a problem for the child you know.I suggest you contact the school and/or the teacher about it.

meeeeh

Plenty of European countries start primary at 6 or 7 and kids do fine. I suspect Irish kids are in school that early because historically there were very few child minding facilities for younger kids. You can't do much work with 5 year old knocking about and in that sense it's easier to send younger kids in first. I understand why they are not doing it but in our family I worry more about the one in 5th class missing out than the one 2nd class.

iamwhoiam

meeeeh wrote: »

Plenty of European countries start primary at 6 or 7 and kids do fine. I suspect Irish kids are in school that early because historically there were very few child minding facilities for younger kids. You can't do much work with 5 year old knocking about and in that sense it's easier to send younger kids in first. I understand why they are not doing it but in our family I worry more about the one in 5th class missing out than the one 2nd class.

They start official primary but most European kids go to pre school and learn through play .They absolutely know how vital early years are

...Ghost...

iamwhoiam wrote: »

They start official primary but most European kids go to pre school and learn through play .They absolutely know how vital early years are

Very true. Most people in Ireland don't know this. My Brother used to live in Sweden and his kids had 2 or 3 years of age appropriate pre-school before officially starting school. It was very similar to how we do pre-school and jnr/snr infants.

maestroamado

meeeeh wrote: »

Plenty of European countries start primary at 6 or 7 and kids do fine. I suspect Irish kids are in school that early because historically there were very few child minding facilities for younger kids. You can't do much work with 5 year old knocking about and in that sense it's easier to send younger kids in first. I understand why they are not doing it but in our family I worry more about the one in 5th class missing out than the one 2nd class.

I have friends who live in Spain and where they are there is a pre-school, i was told its ran by the Local Authority but whether its widespread or not i do not know.
Anyway traditionally children need to start at about 5 as it take a couple of years to get the mind ready for the Holy Sacraments...

iamwhoiam

...Ghost... wrote: »

Very true. Most people in Ireland don't know this. My Brother used to live in Sweden and his kids had 2 or 3 years of age appropriate pre-school before officially starting school. It was very similar to how we do pre-school and jnr/snr infants.

I lived in Germany and the kids go to pre school for a t least two years before they start " big school " at 6 . They learn through play and are well prepared for school

maestroamado

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I lived in Germany and the kids go to pre school for a t least two years before they start " big school " at 6 . They learn through play and are well prepared for school

Is this private or state run?

meeeeh

iamwhoiam wrote: »

They start official primary but most European kids go to pre school and learn through play .They absolutely know how vital early years are

Preschool where I come isn't much different than good ecce scheme except it's longer hours and cheaper. Kids go to school two years later and are at 15 according to Pisa research a bit behind Ireland in reading and ahead in maths and science (little difference in all three).

Early years are vital, I'm not saying that they are not but Junior Infants and Senior Infants are needed in Ireland because childcare is so expensive not because kids gain advantage knowing what is 3+2 by the time they are 6. I went to school at 7, only then learned to read. It's also only then that we started with maths but at much higher pace. (We were doing multiplications up to 100 in 2nd year.)

I believe academically it's a lot easier to catch up on learning in early years, they need to be in school because they need parents to sit next to them when remote learning.

Larsso30

Gatling wrote: »

They don't need to engage there only covering the basics for most part ,
I believe the older kids should be a priority over enfants

That is absolute Bollox. Important development stages being missed out on

shesty

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I lived in Germany and the kids go to pre school for a t least two years before they start " big school " at 6 . They learn through play and are well prepared for school

Our kids are in a fantastic preschool, done all through play and their development is great to watch.

However seeing as we don't even have the ECCE scheme under the Dept of Education's remit, that'll tell you our view of early year's learning....

KnocKnocKnock

enricoh wrote: »

The creches are working away no bother, that's because the unions don't run the show there. I wish her luck, the unions should have been told long ago to strike away. They even rejected the new public service wage increases last week as not good enough!

The ASTI did not reject the public service agreement because the "wage increases were'nt good enough". They rejected it for lots of other reasons, including:
a) it did nothing to address the two tier pay scale, where teachers doing the same job with the same qualifications get paid different amounts based on if they started before or after 2010.
b) It lumped in curriculum changes and a pay deal into the same agreement. You couldn't agree to one without agreeing to the other.
c) Teachers were asked to agree to any above curriculum changes to the Junior Cycle (new Junior Cert) without knowing what these changes were, as they haven't been shared or even invented yet.
d) Industrial action would be prevented. So basically, the government could bring in changes or have unequal pay, and teachers would have no comeback. Unlike some other sectors, teachers in voluntary secondary schools can't negotiate with school management about pay. They can't move to another school for better working conditions. Every school goes by the same rules. While everyone associates industrial action with going on strike, there is a long road of negotiations and other measures before any strike action takes place.

The INTO were more in favour of the agreement as Junior Cycle reforms don't affect them and discrepancies in pay evened out over career average earnings. This would not have been the case for post primary teachers.

KnocKnocKnock

meeeeh wrote: »

.Pit unions against parents and see how that works. .

The government has already tried this. When teacher unions raised concerns about re-opening schools when we had the highest number of cases per population in the world, Foley and Madigan, and some sections of the media presented teachers as just "not cooperating" and ignoring parents and children with special educational needs.
It didn't really work because the vast majority of parents with children in mainstream and special education saw how hard their children's teachers were working to help them. It back fired when you think of how Norma did nothing to invest in special education since she became minister and Josepha implied that children with additional needs are not "normal".

meeeeh

KnocKnocKnock wrote: »

The government has already tried this. When teacher unions raised concerns about re-opening schools when we had the highest number of cases per population in the world, Foley and Madigan, and some sections of the media presented teachers as just "not cooperating" and ignoring parents and children with special educational needs.
It didn't really work because the vast majority of parents with children in mainstream and special education saw how hard their children's teachers were working to help them. It back fired when you think of how Norma did nothing to invest in special education since she became minister and Josepha implied that children with additional needs are not "normal".

I had a reply almost typed and then thought to myself nah don't bother. There is so much nonsense in that it's better not to engage.

iamwhoiam

maestroamado wrote: »

Is this private or state run?

State run .

KnocKnocKnock

meeeeh wrote: »

I had a reply almost typed and then thought to myself nah don't bother. There is so much nonsense in that it's better not to engage.

???
What nonsense? I think it's very telling that for the second time in this thread, if someone disagrees with you, you just make a sarcastic comment and bow out.

...Ghost...

meeeeh wrote: »

I had a reply almost typed and then thought to myself nah don't bother. There is so much nonsense in that it's better not to engage.

It's more likely you had nothing of substance to say. Best say nothing at all than to cry nonsense and tell porkies when another poster makes sense.