Norma Foley has to go [MOD WARNING IN 1ST POST]

JasonStatham

Smacruairi wrote: »

After yet another few days of leaks about the reopening of schools, it transpires that she again hadn't informed her cabinet colleagues.

Why has she not been replaced? Has there ever been a minister who has been repeatedly making a bags of this and lasted this long? Like the dept of health is bad, but this is on another level it seems, particularly around communication. Do FF realise that their most public ministers are Donnelly and Foley, who surely have approvement ratings in the single digits, while FG have paschal and Coveney who are quietly keeping things moving along?

Is there a plan, even a political one?!

The media won't hammer her cos she's a woman. If it was a bloke, they'd have the knives out.

hamburgham

James Brown wrote: »

Unions are member driven whose remit is to look after it's membership.
They don't and shouldn't give two ****s about anything outside of looking after their membership.
Unions are necessary.

And the government’s remit is to act in the best interests of the rest of us and not to continually give in to these bully boys. I think the government would have huge support if they finally now found the bxxls to stand up to them.

Larsso30

Norma is useless agreed, but unions and their resistance to everything shouldn't be forgotten or taken lightly.

Smacruairi

Again people get obsessed with unions, Jesus its the "bankers" of our time.

This is minister who has had A YEAR to plan any form of plan b, amd failed, despite having unions offer suggestions, parent's bodies even the student's platforms. She did nothing. She insisted that schools are safe when we had the highest levels of Covid in the world. The world like. Jesus!

Her communication style is atrocious, and the first thing she when she took office was not to announce covid planning, buy to look after a school in kerry with developments.

Again, why are people complicit in giving her a pass?

sdanseo

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

She is a first time TD and was catapulted into a ministerial position purely to make up gender quota figures. She’s completely incompetent and way in over her head and I’d say (and hope) will not last the distance and will hopefully be sacked.

A lot of teachers thought when she was made minister for Ed that she would at least understand their position being a teacher herself however she completely fcuked that up for herself when turned against them over the last few months and I’d imagine not many schools would want her anywhere near them if she tries to go back to teaching once FF realise how utterly useless she actually is.

I dislike plenty of politicians but she’s on a different level completely. She’s ignorant and condescending and clearly not that intelligent either. She pushed her ‘schools are safe’ nonsense and was still trying to push the same line in the new year when the reopening was delayed until the 11th January. Numbers were through the roof, the new highly transmissible variant was the dominant virus but because she was told schools were safe (which they relatively were when numbers were very low) she couldn’t see further than that despite NPHET saying different.

She will go down as the most utterly incompetent TD/Minister ever.

That's a big claim and very hard to prove. We can only suspect you are correct.

If so, this is why gender quotas are fundamentally unfair and not the solution to not having enough women in politics. Not only do they potentially deprive more qualified male candidates of the chance to run for election under a party ticket, they are now depriving the country of good governance.

To be abundantly clear: no woman should ever be passed over for a job because a less qualified man is the more appealing or seemingly more senior or entitled.

The same applies in reverse. The best candidate for the job should get the job, regardless if they are male, female, black, white or any other label.

James Brown

hamburgham wrote: »

And the government’s remit is to act in the best interests of the rest of us and not to continually give in to these bully boys. I think the government would have huge support if they finally now found the bxxls to stand up to them.

They'll happily blame the unions though.
Look at the caliber of public representative you have in FF/FG. They only get clever when rinsing the tax payer for private profit/looking after their own or making excuses.
Only the unions will look out for the workers. We've seen FF/FG don't respect anything outside of self interest.
Look at health, unions supposedly too.
What about Irish Water? FG/Lab created it from scratch. What did we get? A sweet deal at a loss to the tax payer, still under investigation. Jobs for the boys on the board. Laughing yoga and solid must be paid no matter what bonuses. That wasn't unions, that was FG/Lab.
So forgive me if I'm suspicious it might be down to decades of FF/FG has us where we are.

She is absolutely abysmal. Not a solitary redeeming feature.

People whinge about the unions, but if it wasn't for them, the schools would have reopened and we'd be a lot deeper into the ha'penny place.

Smee_Again

enricoh wrote: »

Here's a 41year old primary school teacher on 52k a year, and they're still crying about pay and rejecting new pay increases. Cry me a river, with half a million people out of work at the mo! Let them strike away for more n ignore them.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/money-diaries-21-5350675-Feb2021/

€52K a year isn’t that much for a university graduate with 10+ years experience.

It just sounds like a lot to the unskilled and/or uneducated.

hamburgham

James Brown wrote: »

They'll happily blame the unions though.
Look at the caliber of public representative you have in FF/FG. They only get clever when rinsing the tax payer for private profit/looking after their own or making excuses.

I’m looking at the calibre of TDs, dismal, and what am I seeing, lots and lots of teachers, what does that tell you.

Parents want their kids back at school. The govt should announce that the schools are reopening on 1 March and any teacher who doesn’t show up goes on PUP. End of.

Gatling

She absolutely has to go ,

As another poster said she had no plan A, B,C,D,E,F her big Children with needs take priority speeches didn't help either I'm a parent of a child with needs who's gone through hell the last two lock downs ,and this I'm opening the schools on this date ,then that date ,to schools are safe with only 246 cases reported in schools,then it was 40% of all schools have had positive cases then she claims 70% of schools have had zero contact to public health showing there is little or no covid in schools,
Which one was it Norma 40% of schools had cases or 70% had no cases because your maths do not add up ,
Where was the supports for children with extra needs or learning disabilities what some got Chrome books and little else others got nothing,
The unions I don't agree with but she leads the department and yet had zero control over anything except getting into a wars of words saying she had met with various parties even Leo could only go with if she claimed she met with stakeholders we can only go by what she said ,
And not all children with needs are in asd units or special schools but left them out of the equations.

Zero time or respect for her

hamburgham

Smee_Again wrote: »

€52K a year isn’t that much for a university graduate with 10+ years experience.

It just sounds like a lot to the unskilled and/or uneducated.

Not comparable. Gross it up for a 9-5 job with 4 weeks holiday a year.

And by the way, I’ve seen PhDs on less than that.

Larbre34

She does. Absolutely terrible Minister. However its not all her fault.

What this situation is, is a disgusting indictment of the needs of satisfying party geography over competence and the national interest.

Norma Foley was appointed to a senior cabinet ministry within her first term as a TD. A massively important department at the best of times and even more so in times of crisis such as these. She was never going to be competent and was effectively set up to fail. Thats Micheál Martin's fault.

brookers

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

She is a first time TD and was catapulted into a ministerial position purely to make up gender quota figures. She’s completely incompetent and way in over her head and I’d say (and hope) will not last the distance and will hopefully be sacked.

A lot of teachers thought when she was made minister for Ed that she would at least understand their position being a teacher herself however she completely fcuked that up for herself when turned against them over the last few months and I’d imagine not many schools would want her anywhere near them if she tries to go back to teaching once FF realise how utterly useless she actually is.

I dislike plenty of politicians but she’s on a different level completely. She’s ignorant and condescending and clearly not that intelligent either. She pushed her ‘schools are safe’ nonsense and was still trying to push the same line in the new year when the reopening was delayed until the 11th January. Numbers were through the roof, the new highly transmissible variant was the dominant virus but because she was told schools were safe (which they relatively were when numbers were very low) she couldn’t see further than that despite NPHET saying different.

She will go down as the most utterly incompetent TD/Minister ever.

*Mod snip - comments on a person's appearance are not acceptable*

Smee_Again

hamburgham wrote: »

Not comparable. Gross it up for a 9-5 job with 4 weeks holiday a year.

And by the way, I’ve seen PhDs on less than that.

Of course it’s comparable.

But like I said if someone is uneducated or unskilled it seems like a lot. Anyone who has spent a few years getting qualified will appreciate it for the decent but not particularly high salary that it is.

byhookorbycrook

Larsso30 wrote: »

Norma is useless agreed, but unions and their resistance to everything shouldn't be forgotten or taken lightly.

Resistance to everything?You do know that unions are made up of members, right? And that we publicly begged for a " plan" for reopening schools after the summer from May? (Check #edhatie if you don't believe me ) We were 10 weeks into lock down before the DES sent out guidelines and those were mainly about how to complain about schools.



We presumed a standard national platform would be in place for this school year, we presumed wrongly. Likewise to training. Both the platforms and training were left to school staff in their own time and at their own expense. Even the money promised to schools for devices for children to work remotely, tiny as it was, was actually from monies already allocated to schools. But we trained, we got plans in place- despite secondary schools getting guidance in December)



Instead of a plan for September , two weeks before schools were to reopen we got a "document" that ignored basic science, said " sort it out yourselves" and saw every member of the school community (and shock, horror, more than teachers work in schools and parents are members of our communities too) roll up their collective sleeves in those much vaunted "holidays" to order masks, hand san. etc. etc. physically haul desks and other furniture around the place, plot staggered starts, breaks and school dismissals all of which meant longer unpaid work for everyone , reassure children and still make school were as normal as possible for our students.



DES staff like those of NEPS/ NCSE and the inspectorate refused and continue to refuse to spend time in any classroom and the Dáil continues to refuse to sit in a large chamber with masks and bills the Irish tax payer for eye-watering amounts for the convention centre


We were denied the testing in other workplaces and even the very definition of close contacts. The hand san. we were told to buy was deemed unsafe, the DES knew but tried to bury the information over midterm, meaning schools once more had to scramble to try and source a safe brand at a few days' notice. The PPE budget was cut by 40% after Christmas.





No other work place has been told to ignore public health advice. School staff have been told to completely ignore advice on masks (told visors "could" be used, if needed and still peddling that fallacy ,PPE) hand washing social distancing, adequate ventilation, numbers in a room and the duration of the 30 or people in that room, whilst the Ministers in charge, good old Norma and Jospeha parroted the "schools are safe" narrative, even as community transmission rocketed.



The shambolic webinar where comments/questions was turned off only failed because the overflow on Youtube was allowed to comment and parents, SNAS and other could also comment as the webinar asserted that we all agreed schools were 100% safe. Only that someone recorded those comments and RTE's Emma O'Kelly had the courage to pick up on and report those comments, how many ill/dead students (if you don't care about teachers/SNAS/bus drivers etc. )never mind vulnerable parents/ family members would we have had in January. Now the DES is refusing any further webinars and the INTO who like to be the teacher's pets have chastised us for our views as a result.


Norma and Josepha were embarrassing in their rush to be first to the media (egged on by Simon Harris' brother, whose own autism charity is refusing any and all face to face contact)Josepha , as Minister with responsibility for inclusion has had to apologize twice in 6 weeks for comparing the delay in schools reopening to the Mother and Babies scandal and also for referring to " normal" children vs those who need additional supports. Hell, An Taoseach asked them both to keep off media, but they just can't.

byhookorbycrook

hamburgham wrote: »

I’m looking at the calibre of TDs, dismal, and what am I seeing, lots and lots of teachers, what does that tell you.

Parents want their kids back at school. The govt should announce that the schools are reopening on 1 March and any teacher who doesn’t show up goes on PUP. End of.

Actually, many don't, though it doesn't suit your narrative. Does you apply your PUP stick to SNAs/Bus drivers/escorts/cleaners/secretaries? And what about vulnerable children/families?

hamburgham

Smee_Again wrote: »

Of course it’s comparable.

But like I said if someone is uneducated or unskilled it seems like a lot. Anyone who has spent a few years getting qualified will appreciate it for the decent but not particularly high salary that it is.

A 5 1/2 hour working day to say nothing of finishing even earlier if you’re teaching infants.

183 days a year, say 37 weeks. Gross up the 52k to a normal 48 working weeks and it’s 67.5k equivalent and that’s before any adjustment for the short working week.

And yeah I’ve heard all about the prep. No one else has ever to do prep for their job only teachers.

Gatling

^^ this exactly ^^ byhookorbycrook
I believe coming from an educator ,were all beyond frustrated and not just parents but teacher's SNA , drivers , cleaners external supports,all they got was put them on pup and put manners on them

byhookorbycrook

hamburgham wrote: »

A 5 1/2 hour working day to say nothing of finishing even earlier if you’re teaching infants.

183 days a year, say 37 weeks. Gross up the 52k to a normal 48 working weeks and it’s 67.5k equivalent and that’s before any adjustment for the short working week.

And yeah I’ve heard all about the prep. No one else has ever to do prep for their job only teachers.

Take it from me, it's a lot easier to teach face to face than remotely. And that's before corrections.

Smee_Again

hamburgham wrote: »

A 5 1/2 hour working day to say nothing of finishing even earlier if you’re teaching infants.

183 days a year, say 37 weeks. Gross up the 52k to a normal 48 working weeks and it’s 67.5k equivalent and that’s before any adjustment for the short working week.

And yeah I’ve heard all about the prep. No one else has ever to do prep for their job only teachers.

Kind of proving my point here lad.

SouthWesterly

James Brown wrote: »

Ah, it's like health so. Can't be tackled, best left as is. Don't want to disturb things...so why do we bother with ministers at all?

Someone has to get the blame

hamburgham

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Actually, many don't, though it doesn't suit your narrative. Does you apply your PUP stick to SNAs/Bus drivers/escorts/cleaners/secretaries? And what about vulnerable children/families?

Yes, why not.

The vulnerable children and their families who are suffering because schools are closed will be relieved when they reopen. You know, the ones the Children’s Ombudsman has expressed serious concern over, who are severely distressed, suicidal etc.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0213/1196928-childrens-ombusman/

Or do these vulnerable children not suit your narrative?

alroley

hamburgham wrote: »

A 5 1/2 hour working day to say nothing of finishing even earlier if you’re teaching infants.

183 days a year, say 37 weeks. Gross up the 52k to a normal 48 working weeks and it’s 67.5k equivalent and that’s before any adjustment for the short working week.

And yeah I’ve heard all about the prep. No one else has ever to do prep for their job only teachers.

5 and a half hours???

I get to school at 7.50-8.00 and leave at 4.30 (5.00 on days with extra-curricular).

hamburgham

Smee_Again wrote: »

Kind of proving my point here lad.

?

Gatling

alroley wrote: »

5 and a half hours???

I get to school at 7.50-8.00 and leave at 4.30 (5.00 on days with extra-curricular).

Guarantee you spend a fair amount of hours planning and correction on work at home

hamburgham

alroley wrote: »

5 and a half hours???

I get to school at 7.50-8.00 and leave at 4.30 (5.00 on days with extra-curricular).

I get to work well before my actual start time as well. I’m sure a lot of people do. It’s generally irrelevant to salary calculations. If it makes any difference, it’s with reference to primary school teachers.
Must be lovely to have infants and finish around lunch.

Smacruairi

hamburgham wrote: »

I
Must be lovely to have infants and finish around lunch.

There's about a million threads on here to have a go at teachers pay and conditions, I'm sure you'll enjoy it over there. This thread however is about Foley and you're an exact example of why the des is nothing being held sufficiently accountable.

Here we have a national crisis in education from zero planning, and you want to have a cut about holidays? That's 2p looking down on 1p when we have a huge govt machine which simply didn't bother to turn itself on.

The media gave her a free pass right up to the second week in January and only then have they started asking questions. It's baffling.

hamburgham

hamburgham wrote: »

Yes, why not.

The vulnerable children and their families who are suffering because schools are closed will be relieved when they reopen. You know, the ones the Children’s Ombudsman has expressed serious concern over, who are severely distressed, suicidal etc.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0213/1196928-childrens-ombusman/

Or do these vulnerable children not suit your narrative?

Silence is deafening.

mattser

brookers wrote: »

I know this is a terrible thing to say and it should not really matter but she just comes across as super old fashioned, her make up, hair style, clothes etc. It just sends out a message I think that she is stuck in another era. I could be wrong but I think she also has very pro life views which with her Kerry upbringing doesn't make for a good fit.

If you met her in person would you say that ?. I very much doubt it. It is a terrible thing to say.

mayo londoner

Smee_Again wrote: »

€52K a year isn’t that much for a university graduate with 10+ years experience.

It just sounds like a lot to the unskilled and/or uneducated.

The absolute arrogance of this, wow.