1.35 million to retrofit 50 social houses.

Jinglejangle69

Just seen a TD put up it's gonna cost 1.35 million to retro fit 50 social houses in Fingal and the aim is to have 500,000 done by 2030.

Am I right thinking that's 13 billion?

This can't be right, is this a green party initiative??

I take it private owners will have to foot the bill themselves?

listermint

Trying to understand. Is it a case we should just let the social housing stock fall into disrepair or what is it you'd like to do.

Looking for your insight here.

Jinglejangle69

listermint wrote: »

Trying to understand. Is it a case we should just let the social housing stock fall into disrepair or what is it you'd like to do.

Looking for your insight here.

It's retrofitting with energy saving devices and insulation.

How will the houses go into disrepair without this work.?

dam099

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I take it private owners will have to foot the bill themselves?

It has been floated that there might be a low interest loan scheme for private owners, repayable on energy bills.

The theory would be the retrofits would pay for themselves through heating bill savings offsetting the loan repayments. Whether that would work out in practice is another question.

gifted

dam099 wrote: »

It has been floated that there might be a low interest loan scheme for private owners, repayable on energy bills.

The theory would be the retrofits would pay for themselves through heating bill savings offsetting the loan repayments. Whether that would work out in practice is another question.

Let's say you pay a €1000 a year on oil/ gas bills. You get your home retrofitted and that could cost anything up to 20k.....air to water, insulation, new rads to suit air to water.....so instead of paying for oil/ gas you now pay back a loan...it'll take you 20 years + but the way they look at it is that at least it's cleaner........

Gatling

They have been doing whole estates for the last few years here in parts of tallaght ,new insulation and Windows and doors ,
It's old news

namloc1980

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I take it private owners will have to foot the bill themselves?

Yeah pretty much with a limited amount grant funding. There was talk of low or zero percent loans but nothing has happened on that front yet. Meanwhile in Italy the state is funding 100% of home retrofits to meet climate change targets.

Jinglejangle69

Gatling wrote: »

They have been doing whole estates for the last few years here in parts of tallaght ,new insulation and Windows and doors ,
It's old news

I know that.

I just didn't think it would cost 27,000 euro per house to the tax payer.

Another one just getting the go ahead that's costing a fortune.

Gonna be some debt at the end of all of this on top of existing debt between covid, house building, retro fitting etc.

Ah well sure we're rich.

spakman

gifted wrote: »

Let's say you pay a €1000 a year on oil/ gas bills. You get your home retrofitted and that could cost anything up to 20k.....air to water, insulation, new rads to suit air to water.....so instead of paying for oil/ gas you now pay back a loan...it'll take you 20 years + but the way they look at it is that at least it's cleaner........

It canbe a lot more than 20k depending on the house!
Take a pensioner living in an old, energy inefficient house - a) its very unlikely they would have >20k cash to get the house upgraded.
b) who would give them a loan to get it done given their age?
c) even if they could afford it, there's not much of an incentiveto do it seeing as it will take decades to pay for itself.

Gestureapo

More like 100 yrs to do 500,000 houses in this country

Thelonious Monk

It's a good thing to spend tax on in my opinion. It's not like if they didn't spend it on this you'd benefit from it some other way anyway.

CrazyFather1

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Just seen a TD put up it's gonna cost 1.35 million to retro fit 50 social houses in Fingal and the aim is to have 500,000 done by 2030.

Am I right thinking that's 13 billion?

This can't be right, is this a green party initiative??

I take it private owners will have to foot the bill themselves?

Is that not 27k per house?
New set of windows/doors would be 10k on their own
Attic insulation 1k
Pump walls 3k
High energy boiler 5k
If going heat pump then 15k
Replace radiators: 2k

I have upgraded a few houses, believe me 27k is a drop into the ocean

What the main question should be is what BER rating is it now and what will it be after the work?

gifted

spakman wrote: »

It canbe a lot more than 20k depending on the house!
Take a pensioner living in an old, energy inefficient house - a) its very unlikely they would have >20k cash to get the house upgraded.
b) who would give them a loan to get it done given their age?
c) even if they could afford it, there's not much of an incentiveto do it seeing as it will take decades to pay for itself.

They wouldn't be getting a loan from the bank.....the state would "pay" for it and you would pay it back through your income tax. The government can borrow the money and therefore pass the loan onto the people.

The OAP wouldn't be paying for it ...it's the working folk who will end up paying for this.

Before the last election a green politician called to my door and explained it all out to me. I was nearly in tears when I heard how this retrofit scheme was gonna be funded. The politician at the door just shrugged his shoulders and moved on.

kieran.

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Is that not 27k per house?
New set of windows/doors would be 10k on their own
Attic insulation 1k
Pump walls 3k
High energy boiler 5k
If going heat pump then 15k
Replace radiators: 2k

I have upgraded a few houses, believe me 27k is a drop into the ocean

What the main question should be is what BER rating is it now and what will it be after the work?

27k would be more or less spot on for these from my experience. If the houses are hollow block EWI is needed and this will add 10k to the costs approx.
The typical the target BER is B2. You usually end up with minimum B2 with some B1s and A3s in mid terraces. Starting BERs are usually Ds & Cs.

blanch152

gifted wrote: »

Let's say you pay a €1000 a year on oil/ gas bills. You get your home retrofitted and that could cost anything up to 20k.....air to water, insulation, new rads to suit air to water.....so instead of paying for oil/ gas you now pay back a loan...it'll take you 20 years + but the way they look at it is that at least it's cleaner........

Closer to 40k for all that, if you include solar.

bilbot79

I think we're going to get huge fines if we don't meet emissions targets.

Best thing to do here is make a cup of tea, put on Corrie and spend less time getting angry about retrofitting social homes.

listermint

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Is that not 27k per house?
New set of windows/doors would be 10k on their own
Attic insulation 1k
Pump walls 3k
High energy boiler 5k
If going heat pump then 15k
Replace radiators: 2k

I have upgraded a few houses, believe me 27k is a drop into the ocean

What the main question should be is what BER rating is it now and what will it be after the work?

That's not the main question though BER is hog ****e. The main question is how comfortable they are to live in. BER doesn't give that it's a check box exercise.

Upgrading housing stock is a good use of money. The OPs premise is poor .

CrazyFather1

listermint wrote: »

That's not the main question though BER is hog ****e. The main question is how comfortable they are to live in. BER doesn't give that it's a check box exercise.

Upgrading housing stock is a good use of money. The OPs premise is poor .

Upgrading houses is excellent money spent, but just announcing a big number is poor from the media department.
At the moment we just have a bill of 1.35m. If they announced they have 50 houses at D3 and with the 27k per house they will come to a B2 then at least you would know it is a significant jump.
The BER scheme is not ideal but people know it and have a decent enough idea that D = bad and B = better

If you done the BER as well you could also say it will save 3 mil over the next 5 years etc based on the BER calculations with a huge * beside it. Then it looks like better money spent. It is all optics

Amirani

A good thing for the State to spend money on. Investing in upgrading the assets/infrastructure it owns that will have a direct benefit on the comfort of many people and reduce energy costs and resulting emissions fines in the long term.

Given borrowing costs are essentially null, this is a worthwhile investment. Hopefully good supports can be offered to help private homeowners invest in their own assets also.

CrazyFather1

Amirani wrote: »

A good thing for the State to spend money on. Investing in upgrading the assets/infrastructure it owns that will have a direct benefit on the comfort of many people and reduce energy costs and resulting emissions fines in the long term.

Given borrowing costs are essentially null, this is a worthwhile investment. Hopefully good supports can be offered to help private homeowners invest in their own assets also.

Another discussion but the current SEAI system which is in place to help private homeowners is not fit for purpose.

Jinglejangle69

Amirani wrote: »

A good thing for the State to spend money on. Investing in upgrading the assets/infrastructure it owns that will have a direct benefit on the comfort of many people and reduce energy costs and resulting emissions fines in the long term.

Given borrowing costs are essentially null, this is a worthwhile investment. Hopefully good supports can be offered to help private homeowners invest in their own assets also.

Reduce energy costs and have benefit to the people in social houses.

My point is I'd like to see it extended to all houses.

If we're serious about reducing emissions that's the way to go, not some miserable grant that isn't worth the paper it's written on.

CrazyFather1

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Reduce energy costs and have benefit to the people in social houses.

My point is I'd like to see it extended to all houses.

If we're serious about reducing emissions that's the way to go, not some miserable grant that isn't worth the paper it's written on.

The SEAI grant if it worked properly would be good.
Problem is the grant only helps the contractor
Take solar panel as a guide, loads of people got pricing prior to grant. Then SEAI released a 3800 grant, if you priced the exact same system the cost had gone up 3800. This is the exact same across all these grants. The contract is taking into consideration you are getting XYZ as a grant so they increase the price.

So grants are available for homeowners to use, the problem is the system is broken for those
I have yet to see any political party say they will fix it.