Israel two tier system post vaccination

LuckyLloyd

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/18/world/middleeast/israel-covid-vaccine-reopen.html?referringSource=articleShare

“Under a new “Green Badge” system that functions as both a carrot and a stick, the government is making leisure activities accessible only to people who are fully vaccinated or recovered starting from Sunday. Two weeks later, restaurants, event halls and conferences will be allowed to operate under those rules. Customers and attendees will have to carry a certificate of vaccination with a QR code.”

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Very interesting approach by Israel and how I always imagined it should work. I think this should eventually become the standard across the world.

Pigeon Chaser

Think Israel was a 2 tier arrangement pre vaccination anyway..

LuckyLloyd

Pigeon Chaser wrote: »

Think Israel was a 2 tier arrangement pre vaccination anyway..

There’s probably some truth to that.

But rather than discussing Israel specifically, it’s worth asking the question if it could work here or across the rest of the EU, the US, etc? I think it could.

pconn062

I am pro vaccine but would be strongly opposed to this idea. Having to carry a certificate to do simple things like go for a meal or to a shopping center doesn't sit right with me at all, and I see businesses really fighting against it as they struggle to build their businesses back up.

pjohnson

pconn062 wrote: »

I am pro vaccine but would be strongly opposed to this idea. Having to carry a certificate to do simple things like go for a meal or to a shopping center doesn't sit right with me at all, and I see businesses really fighting against it as they struggle to build their businesses back up.

I'd imagine most businesses would tbh. Let any possible customer know that they are trying to operate a safe business. That would be appealing to most people.

I remember another time in history when people had to wear identifying badges in a tiered society...

LuckyLloyd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I remember another time in history when people had to wear identifying badges in a tiered society...

Well the vaccine will be available to everyone. The Nazis weren’t running an opt in / opt out program.

Smee_Again

pconn062 wrote: »

I am pro vaccine but would be strongly opposed to this idea. Having to carry a certificate to do simple things like go for a meal or to a shopping center doesn't sit right with me at all, and I see businesses really fighting against it as they struggle to build their businesses back up.

If it was introduced and a business didn’t ask for it I wouldn’t return.

No reason why it can’t work the same as ID for alcohol sales, no requirement to actually carry ID with you but onus is on the seller to make sure the purchaser is over 18.

pjohnson

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well the vaccine will be available to everyone. The Nazis weren’t running an opt in / opt out program.

It seems most people who try to equate vaccinations with Nazi's actually have no clue what the Nazi's actually did, they just think it sounds cool.

Silentcorner

pjohnson wrote: »

It seems most people who try to equate vaccinations with Nazi's actually have no clue what the Nazi's actually did, they just think it sounds cool.

I don't think anyone has a problem with vaccinations...the problem is the tiered society.

But of course, you knew that!!!

pjohnson

Silentcorner wrote: »

I don't think anyone has a problem with vaccinations...the problem is the tiered society.

But of course, you knew that!!!

The problem is actually a lack of knowledge about Nazi Germany.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well the vaccine will be available to everyone. The Nazis weren’t running an opt in / opt out program.

So you can opt out of all leisure activities.

Good "choice" there.

Irish Aris

[QUOTE=Smee_Again;116330159 If it was introduced and a business didn’t ask for it I wouldn’t return.

No reason why it can’t work the same as ID for alcohol sales, no requirement to actually carry ID with you but onus is on the seller to make sure the purchaser is over 18.[/QUOTE]

I would be the opposite, I wouldn't go to a business if they asked for it, with the exception of essential shopping of course (food).
I will of course get the vaccine as soon as it is offered to me, getting though to protect myself.
I can understand it as a requirement in certain scenarios, like travelling, but not everywhere. I don't expect it to become a norm, but you never know. . .

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

The problem is actually a lack of knowledge about Nazi Germany.

You can say that as many times as you like, it still won't be true.

DaSilva

Smee_Again wrote: »

If it was introduced and a business didn’t ask for it I wouldn’t return.

No reason why it can’t work the same as ID for alcohol sales, no requirement to actually carry ID with you but onus is on the seller to make sure the purchaser is over 18.

And I would be the opposite, I'd be less likely to go somewhere that asked for people to prove their status.

I am personally going to take whatever vaccine is offered to me immediately, but I don't think we should try force anyone into getting it. We also shouldn't forget about the people who cannot take vaccines, are you going to require that people provide proof they couldn't get the vaccine?

If you are vaccinated why do you care what other people do

pjohnson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can say that as many times as you like, it still won't be true.

Like you putting choice in quotes doesn't make it that there isn't a choice.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Like you putting choice in quotes doesn't make it that there isn't a choice.

Yawn. You're boring.

seenitall

Dr Mike Ryan of the WHO said in a presser that Ireland and other wealthy countries should share their vaccines with the poorer countries around the world. He was rather forceful about it, anyone seen it? He said that most of the world’s vaccines are being distributed to the wealthiest countries and that it wasn’t fair that the old people in poor countries will be dying of Covid, while young and healthy are getting vaccinated in the rich “North”. Which leads me to feel that he probably wouldn’t think much of your/Israeli idea, OP.

(I saw the clip briefly today - somewhere, can’t find it now...)

LessOutragePlz

This paves the way for the social credit system like the one used in China.

Once we start giving up some of our freedoms we'll never get them back so this would be a slippery slope IMO if we do what Israel are doing.

pjohnson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yawn. You're boring.

Because I understand Nazi Germany AND what choice is?

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Because I understand Nazi Germany AND what choice is?

If you've a problem with me, PM me. I'm ignoring your facile remarks from now on in this thread.

Bye now. Kisses.

pjohnson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you've a problem with me, PM me. I'm ignoring your facile remarks from now on in this thread.

Bye now. Kisses.

Right. Bizarre.

Anyway, no one should be surprised by such an authoritarian move by Israel. That country has form.

Charles Babbage

Silentcorner wrote: »

I don't think anyone has a problem with vaccinations...the problem is the tiered society.

But of course, you knew that!!!

The term "Tiered society" is pejorative.

The issue is whether people are allowed behave in anti social way.


All societies have restrictions, there is no major city in the world where you can walk about naked, for instance.



The way to end restrictions for everyone is to have a vaccine and then only restrict people refusing to get one.

Sleeper12

pconn062 wrote:

I am pro vaccine but would be strongly opposed to this idea. Having to carry a certificate to do simple things like go for a meal or to a shopping center doesn't sit right with me at all, and I see businesses really fighting against it as they struggle to build their businesses back up.

I think most businesses would love this idea. A restaurant with only vaccinated customers would mean not having to have tables a metre apart I'd imagine. No limit on time spent on the premises. No food required for pubs etc.

I'll be one of the last groups to get the vaccine probably in August or so. If there is a vaccination passport I'd imagine it would be redundant shortly after this

I'll be getting vaccinated as soon as I can and anywhere that doesn't want to take my money because I won't prove it is their loss.

pconn062

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I think most businesses would love this idea. A restaurant with only vaccinated customers would mean not having to have tables a metre apart I'd imagine. No limit on time spent on the premises. No food required for pubs etc.

I'll be one of the last groups to get the vaccine probably in August or so. If there is a vaccination passport I'd imagine it would be redundant shortly after this

I struggle to see businesses that have been closed or severely restricted for the last year limiting their potential customer pool by only accepting customers who have a vaccine passport.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'll be getting vaccinated as soon as I can and anywhere that doesn't want to take my money because I won't prove it is their loss.

I'll take the vaccine voluntarily. I won't carry a vaccine ID. Mandatory vaccination is not the way to go either.

Just make it voluntary and the vast majority will take it, enough for herd immunity. Any strong arm tactics will be counter productive here, I think.

tommybrees

My opinion, This is a very very dangerous road to go down and where it could lead to. It will certainly only help divide people more and more in an already very divided country/world.
We are human beings, not cattle.

Jimbobjoeyman

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll take the vaccine voluntarily. I won't carry a vaccine ID. Mandatory vaccination is not the way to go either.

Just make it voluntary and the vast majority will take it, enough for herd immunity. Any strong arm tactics will be counterproductive here, I think.

Completely agree.
Enough people are skeptical about vaccinations as it is due to misinformation.
Making them mandatory just reinforces the conspiracy.

People need to be educated to the benefits rather than forced and shamed into compliance.
If that was to happen here it'd be the nanny state going too far once again.

Smee_Again

DaSilva wrote: »

If you are vaccinated why do you care what other people do

Because there needs to be a critical mass of people vaccinated for it to be effective at a population level.

Non-vaccinated people also put those who can’t get vaccinated at increased risk and IMO those people should be the ones who get to go for meals etc, not the selfish anti-vaxxers.