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Israel two tier system post vaccination

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13

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    #62
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    astrofool wrote: »
    Pray tell, what is the end of this slope? Get a vaccine and then?

    I'm not against vaccines I'm against restrictions on personal freedom. If you make the personal choice to take a covid vaccine great but don't go around preaching about how you are a better person for having gotten the vaccine and calling those who do not take it scumbags.


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    #63
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,712 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    GT89 wrote: »
    I'm not against vaccines I'm against restrictions on personal freedom. If you make the personal choice to take a covid vaccine great but don't go around preaching about how you are a better person for having gotten the vaccine and calling those who do not take it scumbags.

    What is the next part of the slippery slope, what is at the end of the slippery slope?

    We're in a once in a generation pandemic, I think having restrictions on those who wilfully won't take medicine is probably OK until the pandemic is over.

    I'm in group 14, so I will likely be restricted while groups 1-13 aren't, this is fine, I'm not going to be a baby about it.


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    #64
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    The term "Tiered society" is pejorative.

    The issue is whether people are allowed behave in anti social way.


    All societies have restrictions, there is no major city in the world where you can walk about naked, for instance.

    The way to end restrictions for everyone is to have a vaccine and then only restrict people refusing to get one.

    I once tried to go barefoot in a Museum in Athens - I was nearly dragged off by the local police.


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    #65
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Governments in Ireland have been trying to introduce a National ID system here for decades, to absolute failure. They'll hardly be able to make you get a vaccine passport


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    #66
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,531 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Richard Hillman wrote:
    Governments in Ireland have been trying to introduce a National ID system here for decades, to absolute failure. They'll hardly be able to make you get a vaccine passport

    Oh they'll try alright, and they'll be resistance, but......


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    #67
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,359 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    JoChervil wrote: »
    I remember 6-8 months ago it was a story about an app invented by I think MIT (can't find the link now, but I posted it here few months ago), which was able to recognise "covid" cough. It was simply enough to record enforced cough to see, if you hav covid or not even if you were asymptomatic.

    What I don't get is, why it wasn't used by any country? It would be much simpler to just tell people to cough to check them, than checking their vaccine "passports"...


    Because it doesnt exist


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    #68
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    I really dislike this imported American freedom crap.

    You used to be able to smoke in a pub when you drink, now you can't and have to be segregated out to the smoking area. Any objection to that freedom having been taken away?

    You can knock it all you want but it would restrict our freedoms just because you associate the word "freedom" with America doesn't make it any less true.

    Not being able to socialize freely, attend concerts, sporting events, or go to certain shops would be a restriction on our freedoms?

    Could explain why you don't think any of the above wouldn't be a restriction on our freedoms?

    The smoking ban is a completely different scenario. It was a privilege we once had and now it is removed. Can't see how it was ever a "freedom" unless you can explain it to me?


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    #69
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,710 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    You can knock it all you want but it would restrict our freedoms just because you associate the word "freedom" with America doesn't make it any less true.

    Not being able to socialize freely, attend concerts, sporting events, or go to certain shops would be a restrict on our freedoms?

    Could explain why you don't think any of the above wouldn't be a restriction on our freedoms?

    The smoking ban is a completely different scenario. It was a privilege we once had and now it is removed. Can't see how it was ever a "freedom" unless you can explain it to me?
    Thats made by their own choice.


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    #70
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Thats made by their own choice.

    Forcing people to do something (in this case getting a vaccine) so they can enjoy being a full member of society doesn't represent a choice to me. As the government would be dictating to us what we should do if we want to be a fully functional member of society.

    There's no choice in that scenario, and once we let them do this what's there to stop them from giving us other "choices" to make sure that we can continue to enjoy of freedom to be a fully functional member of society?

    If you can't see any potential problems with an implementation of this policy then no further explanations from me will help you to understand this.


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    #71
    irelandrover
    Registered Users Posts: 3,771 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    You can knock it all you want but it would restrict our freedoms just because you associate the word "freedom" with America doesn't make it any less true.

    Not being able to socialize freely, attend concerts, sporting events, or go to certain shops would be a restriction on our freedoms?

    Could explain why you don't think any of the above wouldn't be a restriction on our freedoms?

    The smoking ban is a completely different scenario. It was a privilege we once had and now it is removed. Can't see how it was ever a "freedom" unless you can explain it to me?

    Right now we can't do any of that as everything is locked down.

    If a vaccine passport allows everything to open up before mass vaccination is achieved then thats great. The alternative is keeping everything shut until enough people have been vaccinated.


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    #72
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    Forcing people to do something (in this case getting a vaccine) so they can enjoy being a full member of society doesn't represent a choice to me. As the government would be dictating to us what we should do if we want to be a fully functional member of society.

    There's no choice in that scenario, and once we let them do this what's there to stop them from giving us other "choices" to make sure that we can continue to enjoy of freedom to be a fully functional member of society?

    But if society is agreeing with everyone (possible) getting a vaccine, why should the minority get to go against what society wants?
    Being a "full member of society" means following the rules of that society, if everyone does what they want then thats anarchy, not society.

    You don't have the freedom to go shopping naked or smoke in a restaurant or hell, swim in a pool without a hat because these are not things that society agrees with, like not allowing people to avenge murders.


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    #73
    Thats me
    Registered Users Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me


    irelandrover wrote: »
    If a vaccine passport allows everything to open up before mass vaccination is achieved then thats great. The alternative is keeping everything shut until enough people have been vaccinated.

    It would be great, but unfortunately not possible in Ireland where goverment even failing enforcing lockdown rules. Half-measures like vaccine passports would require much harder control and enforcement.


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    #74
    Squeeonline
    Registered Users Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭Squeeonline


    6 posts for this thread to be Godwin'd. Probably not a record, but it's getting tiring.


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    #75
    mohawk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭mohawk


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    I really dislike this imported American freedom crap.

    You used to be able to smoke in a pub when you drink, now you can't and have to be segregated out to the smoking area. Any objection to that freedom having been taken away?

    Smoking in a pub is not comparable. Firstly smokers are still allowed in pubs, restaurants they just have to go outside to smoke. So they can still smoke and still frequent their local pub.

    What your supporting is blocking access to services altogether for those who don’t get a vaccine.

    If people who get the vaccine can still transmit the virus then what is the justification.

    Majority of people will take the vaccine. Not everyone wants to give the state extra powers. It tends not to work out for the best.


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    #76
    hi5
    Registered Users Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭hi5


    The unvaccinated will create their own society and sub economy, underground clubs, bars etc, masonic like.
    The gay community did it with bars and clubs back when it was illegal.
    And what happens when the unvaccinated community don't get wiped out by covid as should in theory happen.
    We could always bring back leper colonies.

    Anybody want a share in an airline...?

    https://www.freedomairway.com/about


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    #77
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    After all the nonsense we have had over the last couple of years with GDPR, they are going to tell us we need to share our medical history with the local barman :pac:


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    #78
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    This is inevitable everywhere. The world is not going to put itself on hold to suit a small number of anti-vaxxers. We will be reopening over the next few months, and if you're putting everyone else at risk you're going to find the world an unwelcoming place.


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    #79
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,712 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    After all the nonsense we have had over the last couple of years with GDPR, they are going to tell us we need to share our medical history with the local barman :pac:

    No, just vaccinated against COVID or not, if you share the rest with the barman, that is on you (who presumably already knows your age, nationality and DOB from the ID you show them if you buy alcohol?).


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    #80
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,712 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    hi5 wrote: »
    The unvaccinated will create their own society and sub economy, underground clubs, bars etc, masonic like.
    The gay community did it with bars and clubs back when it was illegal.
    And what happens when the unvaccinated community don't get wiped out by covid as should in theory happen.
    We could always bring back leper colonies.

    Anybody want a share in an airline...?

    https://www.freedomairway.com/about

    Is that this Dolores Cahill behind that?
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ucd-professor-asked-to-resign-from-eu-committee-over-covid-19-claims-1.4277698

    Got to love that the destinations on offer are trumps florida, bolsanaros brazil and.... Ireland.

    Though if that doesn't scream grifting, I don't know what does, looking for 5 (5!) angel investors and having 3 tiers with the 2nd and 3rd tier benefits being "if you want to contribute more".

    Health freedom my ar*e.


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    #81
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    hi5 wrote: »
    The unvaccinated will create their own society and sub economy, underground clubs, bars etc, masonic like.
    The gay community did it with bars and clubs back when it was illegal.
    And what happens when the unvaccinated community don't get wiped out by covid as should in theory happen.
    We could always bring back leper colonies.

    Anybody want a share in an airline...?

    https://www.freedomairway.com/about

    The Gay community couldn't help been Gay. If vaccines are freely available then unvaccinated people are making a choice, big difference.

    Even if young people don't get very sick, the more that the virus is allowed to spread then there is more risk of potential harmful/deadly variants developing which affects everyone.


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    #82
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    its amazing how some people on here think it's ok to exclude people from society cos they don't want to inject their own bodies with something.

    bUt De ViRuS :rolleyes:

    many people have lost their minds .

    Same people will be honking on about consent then in the next METOO wave without any hint of irony


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    #83
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    GT89 wrote: »
    Well it's already been that the vaccine won't stop getting covid and won't stop you spreading it either. So what's the point on mandatory vaccines if they won't stop you spreading it other than as a means of control.

    The point is that once vaccinated you are much less likley to get seriously ill or be hospitalised.

    And when there is a critical mass of people who have been vaccinated - the impacts of someone spreading it become much smaller.


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    #84
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    This paves the way for the social credit system like the one used in China.

    Once we start giving up some of our freedoms we'll never get them back so this would be a slippery slope IMO if we do what Israel are doing.
    You don't have to give up your freedoms. The government is doing that for you.
    Social credit scores/vaccination IDs/health passports will happens whether we want it or not.


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    #85
    Quantum Baloney
    Closed Accounts Posts: 190 ✭✭Quantum Baloney


    I wonder how many others share the saddo fantasies of the OP.


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    #86
    Quantum Baloney
    Closed Accounts Posts: 190 ✭✭Quantum Baloney


    hmmm wrote: »
    This is inevitable everywhere. The world is not going to put itself on hold to suit a small number of anti-vaxxers. We will be reopening over the next few months, and if you're putting everyone else at risk you're going to find the world an unwelcoming place.

    Or is it the people like yourself who unquestioning collaborate and comply with the restrictions that are putting the rest of us at danger?


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    #87
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    hmmm wrote: »
    This is inevitable everywhere. The world is not going to put itself on hold to suit a small number of anti-vaxxers. We will be reopening over the next few months, and if you're putting everyone else at risk you're going to find the world an unwelcoming place.


    the covid19 virus is lethal to very few - only the old and sick who are venerable to every other sickness going.

    Can you explain why your immune system which has functioned since the dawn of time suddenly stopped for covid19? please?


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    #88
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    mohawk wrote: »
    Majority of people will take the vaccine. Not everyone wants to give the state extra powers. It tends not to work out for the best.

    If the majority of people are going to take it, whats your problem?

    I'll give you total free reign, what do you think the worst possible outcome could be, whats the ulterior motive at play here?


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    #89
    Ramasun
    Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Ramasun


    paw patrol wrote: »

    Can you explain why your immune system which has functioned since the dawn of time suddenly stopped for covid19? please?

    Native Americans were probably wondering the same when Europeans brought new diseases.


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    #90
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    paw patrol wrote: »
    the covid19 virus is lethal to very few - only the old and sick who are venerable to every other sickness going.
    So much wrong with this post, so here goes:
    1) No its not only the old that are dying
    2) Having COVID isnt a binary result, its not just die or live and be fine.
    paw patrol wrote: »
    Can you explain why your immune system which has functioned since the dawn of time suddenly stopped for covid19? please?
    Stay with me for this, 2019 was *after* the dawn of time.
    hence our immune systems havent dealt wit COVID 19 before.


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    #91
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    GreeBo wrote: »
    So much wrong with this post, so here goes:
    1) No its not only the old that are dying
    2) Having COVID isnt a binary result, its not just die or live and be fine.


    Stay with me for this, 2019 was *after* the dawn of time.
    hence our immune systems havent dealt wit COVID 19 before.

    1) some people are sick and will die from a host of illness , covid isn't unique. aside from them , no it's only the old are dying. Sure pull up the tabloid scare story of the mid 30s women who ran an ultra marathon a day and still die. She isn't representative of the population - is she exists

    knock yourself out - 266 deaths under 65 out of 4.5 million people...go figure...Table 1 (link below)
    4.5million estimate based on 600k over 65 in 2019 census

    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/br/b-cdc/covid-19deathsandcasesseries24/



    2) How do you know? The long covid tales from the media - which conveniently ignores that a person can take months to recover from an illness - back i 2018 my son took over 3 months to get over flu. This is not unusual for any illness that strikes a person hard. Covid is 1 year old approx. Talk to me in 9-12 months re: long covid.
    Also a handful of cases shouldn't mean blanket rules for an entire population or we've never do anything , ever

    So I disagree with your comments.


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