Are we living during the time of the First Seal of Revelation?

8kczg9v0swrydm

I would usually give videos and articles about 'End Times Prophecies' a wide berth, not because I do not believe that they exist, but because there are so many out there which rely on a personal, flawed understanding of Scripture or personal revelations which were not approved.

However, recently a person I know introduced me to the following series. I find these two guys different because they tend to use official Papal documents and statements, the Church Fathers, the Catechism and approved apparitions (such as Fatima) to make their case.

They claim that we have already entered the time of the First Seal (as set out in the Book of Revelation) and are on the cusp of the Second Seal. While I cannot yet say that I am wholly convinced by their argument, I have to say that I find it compelling. Their message is also a hopeful one ie. looking forward to the period of great peace which is to come after the tribulations.

Would be interested to hear others' opinions on this.

iagreebut

I'm not a Catholic myself, but I have been reading the book of revelations on and off for year's.
And I'm starting to join the dots and I suppose you could say I'm not religious.
But I like reading about prophecy and have an interest in it.
The guy on the horse wearing a crown,it could be a metaphor for the crown of the Corona and it ripping through the world, but that's just an observation or theory.
These people calling themselves LIBERALS or ALTRIGHT they seem to be evil and are like demon's or devils out to corrupt the world...a lot of them don't know if they're men or women or women or men, Identity politics is another one.

There's definitely a storm brewing, even within churches and places of worship there's corruption.

I myself recently around a month ago I asked God or whomever is the creator to cleanse my consciousness or soul and let me start from scratch.

There's so many versions of churches and Christianity, but I think it got lost along the way.
It's probably best to keep it simple, go back to humility and just thank your God for the gift of life, love thy neighbor and friend'skeep my own house clean and have a few reliable friend's.

I don't think it matters if you're a Catholic, Anglican, Muslim or other religion..

Examine your consciousness and live a good life, stay away from drama and stressful situations, getting into the debate's with people mocking religion, pointing out its flaws and trying to undermine you.

Keeping it simple, go right down to brass tacts.

Salvation is available to everyone who have awareness, the book of revelations is very powerful.

Those who are humble, and have the wisdom to know the difference will be saved.

I suppose that scene in Mel Gibson's movie of Jesus stamping on the snake in the garden of Gethsemane resonates with me, he knew that his time was near.
He squashed the snake and confidently rose up and accepted that he had a job to do.

I'm on the fence I suppose with religion and culture, but I'm willing to find the answers..

There's definitely something brewing... better to be saved rather than be the dammed.

But if I decided to convert to Christianity, I'd keep it very simple and abide by the commandments to the best of my abilities and enjoy the simple things in life...

As you can see I'm on my own journey of self discovery...

homer911

@iagreebut - you sound like a Unitarian!!

Seriously though, Salvation is through faith alone, through Christ alone. Other than that you sound like you are on the right path..

iagreebut

Thanks Homer, I suppose I lean towards being a Unitarian..
I actually googled it, and its very interesting.

Yes I like to simplify my belief, down to basics.

It's less complicated, that's for sure.

Hotblack Desiato

The answer to any question posed in a headline is always "No".

iagreebut

Ian Betteridge isn't always right, and by the way has your post anything to do with the discussion ?

iagreebut

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The answer to any question posed in a headline is always "No".

AHH I get you now, Unitarians are open minded and they like to question thing's.

They're more interested in how well they do in this life rather than worrying about the after life...

More deed than creed, it's not unless it is kind of thing...

smacl

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The answer to any question posed in a headline is always "No".

Mod warning: Above post falls short of the minimum standard required for discussion here. See point 7 of the charter.

Charter wrote:

7. While posting controversial questions to stimulate debate is acceptable, soap boxing, i.e. constant repetition of a single viewpoint while refusing to entertain discussion on it, is both disruptive and annoying, and will not be tolerated. You are expected to contribute something other than placard proclamations.

smacl

iagreebut wrote: »

Ian Betteridge isn't always right, and by the way has your post anything to do with the discussion ?

Mod warning: Less of the back seat modding please. If you're not happy with a post, report it. Any feedback via PM or feedback thread only please.

smacl

iagreebut wrote: »

Thanks Homer, I suppose I lean towards being a Unitarian..
I actually googled it, and its very interesting.

Yes I like to simplify my belief, down to basics.

It's less complicated, that's for sure.

Possibly worth noting that Unitarianism is rejected by many other mainstream Christian churches which are all trinitarian. From Wikipedia

The Catholic and Orthodox Church rejects Unitarianism because they consider its doctrine equal to that of Arius, condemned for heresy at the Council of Nicea, for not believing in the divinity of Jesus, neither in trinity.

It is also worth noting that Unitarianism is not considered to constitute Christian belief within the charter of this forum, where the Apostles' Creed specifically relates to trinitarian Christian beliefs.

2. For the purposes of this board 'Christian' means broad assent to historic Christian belief such as is contained in the Apostles' Creed. Individual posters with other beliefs, however, are welcome.

No problem discussing it, albeit as an 'other belief'.

Government buildings

What amazes me is that all the priests and churchman say that this virus has nothing to do with God.
If you believe in God you must admit that there is a possibility that this virus is sent by God.

After all the Bible is replete with stories of God sending various plagues to various ages.

Why are today's churchmen so sure that God didn't send the virus? Have they not read their Bible?

looksee

I have listened to about half the video and I wonder, what is the difference between this prediction and all the others that have gone before. Also, Jesus said 'Concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only'. Matthew 24:3. If no-one knows how can prophesies be made?

antiskeptic

Chad Many Larvae wrote: »

I would usually give videos and articles about 'End Times Prophecies' a wide berth, not because I do not believe that they exist, but because there are so many out there which rely on a personal, flawed understanding of Scripture or personal revelations which were not approved.

However, recently a person I know introduced me to the following series. I find these two guys different because they tend to use official Papal documents and statements, the Church Fathers, the Catechism and approved apparitions (such as Fatima) to make their case.

They claim that we have already entered the time of the First Seal (as set out in the Book of Revelation) and are on the cusp of the Second Seal. While I cannot yet say that I am wholly convinced by their argument, I have to say that I find it compelling. Their message is also a hopeful one ie. looking forward to the period of great peace which is to come after the tribulations.

Would be interested to hear others' opinions on this.

Back in the 90's in engineering college I came across a geology book detailing how much we had left of a multitude of resources you've probably never heard of. Molybdenum, berylium, boron, chromium (well you've heard of that - it makes your plastic trims on your car all shiny)

Everything was expressed in "years left at current rates of consumption". They got the total by adding what we knew we had by way of reserves + what they knew they had but couldn't extract with current technolgy, but figured we'd figure out a way in time. Fracking being an example of that.

Of course, we live in a world where the economic paradigm is ever increasing growth (consumption) so those 90's figures are naturally way out of date.

Bar aluminium (which is horrendously energy intensive to extract from ore), everything on the list had a lifespan of less than 100 years.


I remember thinking then "we're bunched!" and I wasn't a Christian at that point.


Add Climate Change and zero appetite to pull on the rip cord (see aforemention world economic model)

Add highly complex societies, laid waste to with a poxy flu virus

Add highly weaponised societies

And man's go to when the pressure for resources is on: war.


I've tended not to be interested in end times stuff - a long line of failed prophecy being the issue.

But no reason to to give it a look, given things coming to a head.

8kczg9v0swrydm

iagreebut wrote: »

There's so many versions of churches and Christianity, but I think it got lost along the way.
It's probably best to keep it simple, go back to humility and just thank your God for the gift of life, love thy neighbor and friend's keep my own house clean and have a few reliable friend's.

I don't think it matters if you're a Catholic, Anglican, Muslim or other religion..

Great to see that you are passionate and excited about finding the truth, I think it is very sad that so many people are happy to just say that we can never know the truth or that it does not matter.

There is a principle of logic called the Principle of Non-Contradiction (PNC). It means that two contrary things cannot both be true at the same time and in the same respect. Therefore, Ireland cannot both be an island and not be an island at the same time. The same patch of sky cannot both be blue and red at the same time. Similarly, God cannot both exist and not exist. Either the believers are 100% correct on this point, or the atheists are. I see that you are a man of faith, so you are past this first hurdle.

Following on from this principle, it matters a great deal if you are Catholic, Anglican, Muslim or a member of another religion. These religions contradict each other on the same points of doctrine - therefore the PNC applies. If Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died for us on the Cross, rose from the dead and is now with God the Father, then Allah cannot be God and Muhammad be His prophet. It would make zero sense. Simply by strictly applying the rules of logic, we can know that one of these religions is false and its adherents are living in error (whether they realize it or not is a different issue).

The story is similar between the Catholics and the various Protestant sects (Anglicans, Presbyterians, Methodists etc). Either the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ, as He said at the Last Supper ("And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me." Luke 22:19) or it is not. Similarly, either the Pope is the Vicar of Christ, to whom God wants us to submit in matters of religion, or he is not. These things cannot both be and not be true at the same time. To be a Catholic or any other denomination matters a great deal. Think about it - if the Eucharist really is Christ, then are non Catholics not missing out in a massive way?

I can tell you that for me, personally, Catholicism just makes sense. It is faithful to Scripture - the Apostle Paul told believers: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle (2 Thess 2:15). I find that other Christian traditions are forgetting about the "word" part (Scripture alone). I also find that only in Catholicism I have access to the Lord's Supper (Mass) and the forgiveness of sins as He instituted it ie. Confession ("Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained". John 20:23). Moreover, if you look at how the early Church worshiped, those who lived closest in time to Christ, you will find that they celebrated the Mass. Have a read of this account by Justin Martyr from 155 AD.

Salvation is available to everyone who have awareness, the book of revelations is very powerful.

Statements of such gravity should be reasonable ie you should have sufficient reasons for believing them. None of the Christian denominations teach that salvation is easily available to anyone who has awareness (not sure what that means by the way). Christian teaching is that we are saved by accepting the salvation which Christ secured for us on the cross. This is done by applying the merits of his sacrifice to us individually through Baptism. Then, we spend our lives in joyful anticipation of eternal life with God, however we remain conscious that salvation can still be lost through grave sin ("There is a sin leading to death" 1 John 5:16).

Those who are humble, and have the wisdom to know the difference will be saved.

Same problem. Show me a single argument to support the position that salvation is secured through being humble and wise. These questions carry eternal consequences; they really need to be thought out.

I suppose that scene in Mel Gibson's movie of Jesus stamping on the snake in the garden of Gethsemane resonates with me, he knew that his time was near.
He squashed the snake and confidently rose up and accepted that he had a job to do.

Great scene. He went on to die for you, me and the rest of humanity.

I'm on the fence I suppose with religion and culture, but I'm willing to find the answers..

There's definitely something brewing... better to be saved rather than be the dammed.

But if I decided to convert to Christianity, I'd keep it very simple and abide by the commandments to the best of my abilities and enjoy the simple things in life...

As you can see I'm on my own journey of self discovery...

You are bang on that it is better to be saved then to be damned

Please keep praying to God for light, that He will show you the truth.

"Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you". (Matthew 7:7).

santana75

I was actually talking with some friends about this recently and we all confessed to feeling like something was definitely happening with regards to the revelations in John's book. I have no proof to back that up, and I think its a rabbit hole you could easily fall into, expecially since theres so many theories floating around, now more so than ever. But It feels as though time has sped up and we're careening towards some point of convergence. Whether this is gonna happen within the next couple of months, years, or even longer, God is the only one who knows, all I know personally is that something is happening behind the veil.

8kczg9v0swrydm

santana75 wrote: »

I was actually talking with some friends about this recently and we all confessed to feeling like something was definitely happening with regards to the revelations in John's Gospel. I have no prove to back that up, and I think its a rabbit hole you could easily fall into, expecially since theres so many theories floating around, now more so than ever. But It feels as though time has sped up and we're careening towards some point of convergence. Whether this is gonna happen within the next couple of months, years, or even longer, God is the only one who knows, all I know personally is that something is happening behind the veil.

Sometimes I have this feeling too. And, to be perfectly honest, if we were on the brink of a period of chastisement, I wouldn't be surprised.

According to this document from the WHO, we abort around 56 million children annually (its probably 'remove fetuses' in WHO doublespeak. Because we all go around congratulating our friends on being pregnant with a fetus). 25% of all conceptions end in abortion, also according to this document.

If you step back from it, this information is staggering. Every year, we silently kill roughly the same number of people as died in World War II. Every year, we cull 25% of all our new-borns. These are people who could have been doctors, artists, husbands, wives... It beggars belief. This has never been done in the history of the world.

Moreover, we have made an absolute mess of ourselves as humanity. We have totally undercut the four pillars of our human identity, namely religion, family, country and gender. We have chased God out entirely from our public square and largely from our private lives too. The institution of the family has all but disappeared in certain areas - cohabiting, single parent households and other arrangements which were condemned in the Bible are the order of the day. Country - we are basically citizens of the world now. Gender - you would think the easiest one to maintain. People no longer know what their gender is. We are teaching our children that gender is not determined by biology. Some are claiming there are hundreds of genders.

I could go on, but this is already depressing. Maybe the only way out of this mess is if it all collapses and we start anew. Maybe then we will have a chance to make our civilization correspond to reality and the natural law.

santana75

I just finished 2 Chronicles and what really stood out for me was how quickly the people would turn away from God. And those where the chosen people not even the so called "Gentiles". In fact what the Israelites did was often times far worse than the pagan nations they had disposed. Kings would come in and worship idols and commit terrible offences such as sacrificing children to these false gods, along with sexual immorality such as temple prostitutes. And God would turn his back on them, sometimes sending plagues or more often than not, armies from other nations who would conquer and oppress the Israelites until they cried out to God. Who would then save them but then not long after that they would turn from him again and the cycle would repeat itself. And I think nothing has changed. Nations have turned from God, we're still sacrificing children and worshipping idols.
Something is definitely happening, we're heading for some sort of reckoning, theres no way God will stand by and allow things continue the way they are.

Government buildings

I definitely think there's something to the idea of time speeding up. Young and old people seem to say this.

branie2

We could be

homer911

Chad Many Larvae wrote: »

25% of all conceptions end in abortion, also according to this document.

Miscarriages are usually classified as abortions

smacl

Chad Many Larvae wrote: »

According to this document from the WHO, we abort around 56 million children annually (its probably 'remove fetuses' in WHO doublespeak. Because we all go around congratulating our friends on being pregnant with a fetus). 25% of all conceptions end in abortion, also according to this document.

From the same document that you linked, "The abortion rate has declined markedly—by 41%— in developed countries since 1990, but has remained
roughly the same in developing countries. ". There are many studies available that attribute this to broader availability of affordable or free contraception, notably longer acting birth control methods. As this becomes more widely available in developing countries we can expect to see a similar fall in abortion rates in those countries as well as a large drop in child mortality.

NaFirinne

There are a lot of signs in the Bible that indicate we are nearing the end of an age.

There is a few things left to occur first though before the tribulation period starts.

I think covid 19 is just the lead up to that era where we see greater globalist control over countries and greater restrictions on people.

Digital certificates / health passports along with china's social credit system all look like precursors to a mark of the beast style rule over people.

We are heading for world wide deceptions, a world wide government trying to unite all people in so called peace and a world wide religion.

We can see that in the past few years our country as become extremely anti christian. We can see that what's once viewed as great sins have now become what society views as morally good, with traditional christian ideals becoming increasingly morally unacceptable.

looksee

Mod: Please do not allow this thread to become a Covid discussion thread.

NaFirinne, some of your points are veering too close to Conspiracy Theory to be appropriate to this forum.

I think covid 19 is just the lead up to that era where we see greater globalist control over countries and greater restrictions on people.

Digital certificates / health passports along with china's social credit system all look like precursors to a mark of the beast style rule over people.

We are heading for world wide deceptions, a world wide government trying to unite all people in so called peace and a world wide religion.

NaFirinne

looksee wrote: »

Mod: Please do not allow this thread to become a Covid discussion thread.

NaFirinne, some of your points are veering too close to Conspiracy Theory to be appropriate to this forum.

no they are not. there from the study of eschatology.

smacl

NaFirinne wrote: »

no they are not. there from the study of eschatology.

Mod warning: That may will be the case, but I would remind you that the last 'mark of the beast' thread was shipped over to the conspiracy theories forum and this one is likely to do the same if you continue with your current line of discussion. Any response via PM or to the feedback forum only please. Thanks for your attention.

NaFirinne

I look forward to Christ's return

Cabaal

It's very odd how people like claiming now is the end times by linking it to some unstable elements in the world and covid.

By that same logic the world must have very much ended by the 1940's

20million died in WW1
Upto 95million died due to 1918 pandemic worldwide
75million died in WW2
Europe was in ruins due to WW2
Governments in bits, econcomy's ruined

But sure, THIS is the end of times right now....
:rolleyes:

The reality is some people like making links when no links exist and some people just seem to love a little bit of doom in their lives, maybe it gives them somebody to look forward to perhaps?

We've been doing it for a long long time by claiming the end times will come at various points and claiming certain stuff points to it, more recent examples include 2000 and 2012. Many popes made these claims too, perhaps their connection to god had a bad line?

Here's a delightful uplifting list of all the times people were 100% wrong and this time will be no different - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events

In 100 or 200 years time people will look back at comments being made like those in this thread and see them as silly as how we see comments made in the 1800 or 1900's

NaFirinne

The reason why I believe that we are nearing end times is nothing to do with the ongoing covid 19 epidemic and more to do with what was prophecied in the Bible.

The mods seem to indicate I'm not aloud to discuss bibical prophecies such as the ones in the Bible that foretold of the re-gathering of Israel as a nation thousands of years ago which did indeed occur in 1948.

From studying the scriptures the events that lead up too the eventual return of Christ is described in detail for those who wish to know them.

It is from these that we can reconise that while we may not know the hour of the return of Christ we know when we are nearing the season. In this regards we can expect more prophectic things in the Bible to come to pass.

A lot of people will feel it in there bones that something is going on. It's worth doing a little homework on the study of escatology and I would be happy to point people in the right direction or talk about them on the forums if allowed to do so.

looksee

NaFirinne - If there is mention in the bible of digital health certificates, restrictions on people (unless you mean things like the ten commandments and Jewish custom), and global government, then please feel free to quote them.

Other observations made by you were not commented on - not to say I agree with them personally - but I think they are still on topic.

Please do not comment on Mod actions on thread.

santana75

looksee wrote: »

NaFirinne - If there is mention in the bible of digital health certificates, restrictions on people (unless you mean things like the ten commandments and Jewish custom), and global government, then please feel free to quote them.

Revelation 13:16

"He required everyone—small and great, rich and poor, free and slave—to be given a mark on the right hand or on the forehead. And no one could buy or sell anything without that mark, which was either the name of the beast or the number representing his name"


This verse definitely references restrictions if the mark of the beast is not taken. I've no time for wild conspiracy theories myself, but when I heard about things like Vaccine bonuses and vaccine passports, Revelation 13 came to mind. Of course right now, this is all speculation and who knows how it all will turn out, Jesus himself said that Wisdom is proven right by the fruit that it bears. And people have been predicting the End of days since almost the instant after Jesus ascended to Heaven. All I know is that we're called to keep watch, to not allow the world to dull us or distract us, to keep an eye out for the return of The Lord.

Peregrinus

santana75 wrote: »

Revelation 13:16

"He required everyone—small and great, rich and poor, free and slave—to be given a mark on the right hand or on the forehead. And no one could buy or sell anything without that mark, which was either the name of the beast or the number representing his name"


This verse definitely references restrictions if the mark of the beast is not taken. I've no time for wild conspiracy theories myself, but when I heard about things like Vaccine bonuses and vaccine passports, Revelation 13 came to mind . . .

What comes to mind much more strongly is — money. Nobody can buy or sell anything without handling money. Of course, money isn't a mark on the right hand or the forehead but, then, neither is a vaccine passport.

And money, of course, at the time the Revelations was written, came the an image of the emperor, and his name, or a cipher of his name. (Indeed, this is pretty much true for the coinage down to our own day.) That fits with the "name of the beast" stuff much more than a vaccine certificate or similar.

We know what this is about, guys; we've always known. It's about the Emperor Nero.

A lot of this stuff is why the evangelicals in America support Israel, and were so enthusiastic about moving the US embassy, as they saw it as one step further toward the end of the world.

Now, if you have your life in order (who does?) the end of the world, the resurrection, the final judgement and all that are good things. Now, this is not to say that they are bad things in any context, but I don't think I would feel confident to want it to happen asap. A lot of the commentary is not necessarily of the "repent", warning kind, but more of an inpatient foot-tapping 'when does the party start?' kind.

Of course, even if the end of the world is not imminent (but who knows?) each of us will certainly die, perhaps much sooner than we think. In my mind our own impending deaths should be encouragement enough in a moral sense to live correctly (although this is a very one dimensional approach to doing God's will, and not the best) in its own right. I have found the whole 'memento mori' thing far more useful than thinking about the end of the world happening tomorrow. The world might end tomorrow, or it might end in thousands of years. I will definitely die within the next number of decades. I suppose if you are 'ready' to die and in a decent place for your particular judgement, you would be ok for the last judgement too.

NaFirinne

Peregrinus wrote: »

What comes to mind much more strongly is — money. Nobody can buy or sell anything without handling money. Of course, money isn't a mark on the right hand or the forehead but, then, neither is a vaccine passport.

And money, of course, at the time the Revelations was written, came the an image of the emperor, and his name, or a cipher of his name. (Indeed, this is pretty much true for the coinage down to our own day.) That fits with the "name of the beast" stuff much more than a vaccine certificate or similar.

We know what this is about, guys; we've always known. It's about the Emperor Nero.

I don't think money can be used in the same context as digital passports or similar to the make of the beast.


Money enables the exchange of goods and doesn't restrict anyone from using it.


Digital passports restrict freedoms, the mark of the beast restricts even more freedoms.


I think the Chinese Social Credit system is the closet thing we have on earth too a Mark of the beast at the moment.


It's handing more granular control to the governments over peoples lives.


A lot of people don't thing that politicians will not always have the best intentions in mind if they hand them total control over everything they are allowed do in life.

Peregrinus

NaFirinne wrote: »

I don't think money can be used in the same context as digital passports or similar to the make of the beast.


Money enables the exchange of goods and doesn't restrict anyone from using it.


Digital passports restrict freedoms, the mark of the beast restricts even more freedoms.


I think the Chinese Social Credit system is the closet thing we have on earth too a Mark of the beast at the moment.


It's handing more granular control to the governments over peoples lives.


A lot of people don't thing that politicians will not always have the best intentions in mind if they hand them total control over everything they are allowed do in life.

Money was a problem for the readership for which the Revelation was written because it had the emperor's image on it, which Jews considered distasteful and borderline blasphemous. They had little choice but to use the Roman coinage but they experienced the requirement to do so as oppressive and humiliating. And this was true in spades for Jewish Christians, who in addition to the above were the target of persecution by Nero.

And I think if you do want to try and draw lesson for today from Revelation, consider that money, rather than vaccine certificates, may still be the appropriate comparator. Vaccination isn't a threat to the faith, but capitalism, materialism and the worship of Mammon certainly are.

(And as for handing over "granular control over your life", is the problem here governments, or is it Amazon, Facebook and big data?)

On edit: I guess the wider point is, no matter what times you're living in, it's always possible to "map" the Revelation, or snippets of it, onto some contemporary event or phenomenon, and usually on to more than one. The result is that those who are disposed to use the Revelation in an attempt to predict the future (for which, incidentally, there is no warrant in the Revelation itself) invariably conclude that they are living in the very times that the Revelation purportedly predicts. They never, ever conclude that the times to which the Revelation supposedly refers actually occurred several hundred years ago, or that they will not occur for several hundred more years. No, it's always now.

If this means anything (other than pointing to our perennial preoccupation with ourselves and our central importance to human and salvation history) it means that the message of the Revelation is timeless; it's always relevant. And the process of connecting Revelation to your own times is simply a matter of reading the signs of the times. Which, of course, you should be able to do even without the Revelation.

branie2

Given what's happening these days in Israel and Gaza, we might be near the times

Hotblack Desiato

Israel has been in a perpetual state of conflict ever since (and before) it was set up. Two wrongs don't make a right, but given the history of the Jewish people and the hostility of their neighbours, their belligerance is understandable. It's not "end times" just normal times in that religiously conflicted part of the world, unfortunately.

Jayla Orange Turtle

Jayla Orange Turtle wrote: »

A lot of this stuff is why the evangelicals in America support Israel, and were so enthusiastic about moving the US embassy, as they saw it as one step further toward the end of the world.

Now, if you have your life in order (who does?) the end of the world, the resurrection, the final judgement and all that are good things. Now, this is not to say that they are bad things in any context, but I don't think I would feel confident to want it to happen asap. A lot of the commentary is not necessarily of the "repent", warning kind, but more of an inpatient foot-tapping 'when does the party start?' kind.

Of course, even if the end of the world is not imminent (but who knows?) each of us will certainly die, perhaps much sooner than we think. In my mind our own impending deaths should be encouragement enough in a moral sense to live correctly (although this is a very one dimensional approach to doing God's will, and not the best) in its own right. I have found the whole 'memento mori' thing far more useful than thinking about the end of the world happening tomorrow. The world might end tomorrow, or it might end in thousands of years. I will definitely die within the next number of decades. I suppose if you are 'ready' to die and in a decent place for your particular judgement, you would be ok for the last judgement too.

Anyone looking forward to the end of the world and trying to bring it about seems to be the very opposite of how a Christian, and indeed members other religions should act and think.

No sane person would want the world to end. Anyone saying that they are looking forward to it, shows that they have no joy in their lives or anything to live for and they just want other people to suffer as much as they do.

Hotblack Desiato

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Israel has been in a perpetual state of conflict ever since (and before) it was set up. Two wrongs don't make a right, but given the history of the Jewish people and the hostility of their neighbours, their belligerance is understandable. It's not "end times" just normal times in that religiously conflicted part of the world, unfortunately.

As highlighted by a number of Israelis, their government is treating Palestinians like Jewish people have been treated in different periods of history. Encroachment on lands and hindering medical aid during a pandemic is not the act of a government who are friendly or willing to do the right thing.

Cabaal

branie2 wrote: »

Given what's happening these days in Israel and Gaza, we might be near the times

I bet you 100euro you are wrong and the end isn't coming at all.
Want to take me up on the bet?

If you are so sure you have nothing to loose

DubInMeath

DubInMeath wrote: »

Anyone looking forward to the end of the world and trying to bring it about seems to be the very opposite of how a Christian, and indeed members other religions should act and think.

No sane person or someone who isn't manic depressive would want the world to end. Anyone saying that they are looking forward to it, shows that they have no joy in their lives or anything to live for and they just want other people to suffer as much as they do.

The end of this world isn't really the 'end' of everything you know. It is not a nihilistic vision, like that of the Godless materialist where death is indeed the end.

Cabaal

Cabaal wrote: »

I bet you 100euro you are wrong and the end isn't coming at all.
Want to take me up on the bet?

If you are so sure you have nothing to loose

Ha. If he is right how are you going to pay him?

Cabaal

Jayla Orange Turtle wrote: »

Ha. If he is right how are you going to pay him?

If he's right (which he won't be..just like pope's etc haven't been) then it won't matter, but if his god will allow I'll still pay out
If I'm not allowed pay he'll have to blame his god.

Cabaal

Cabaal wrote: »

If he's right (which he won't be..just like pope's etc haven't been) then it won't matter.

But given I'm not a christian he'll be happy in the knowledge that apparently his god won't be a big fan of me.

How about you give me €100, and I'll give you €200 back if the world never ends?

God is a 'big fan' of you, like He is of everyone. You'll be judged on what you have done, only God knows what He will make of that.

Hotblack Desiato

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Israel has been in a perpetual state of conflict ever since (and before) it was set up. Two wrongs don't make a right, but given the history of the Jewish people and the hostility of their neighbours, their belligerance is understandable. It's not "end times" just normal times in that religiously conflicted part of the world, unfortunately.

It is rather disturbing, I must say, to see recent horrors and massacre being portrayed as mere "understandable belligerence".

Cabaal

Jayla Orange Turtle wrote: »

How about you give me €100, and I'll give you €200 back if the world never ends?

You're not a bookies, I won't be giving you a penny. God knows you are dodgy :pac:

How about if the world doesn't end by this day next year you delete your boards.ie account. No money involved

If you believe the world will end you are at zero risk or any loss or money.

Cabaal

Cabaal wrote: »

You're not a bookies, I won't be giving you a penny. God knows you are dodgy :pac:

How about if the world doesn't end by this day next year you delete your boards.ie account. No money involved

If you believe the world will end you are at zero risk or any loss or money.

I do believe the world will end at some stage (who doesn't?) but I have no idea when. Could be tomorrow, could be in a million years.

No, you'll have to do better than that to get rid of me Besides, it would be unchristian of me to abandon those who claim they do not believe in God, yet, somewhat Herod-like, feel compelled to discuss Him.

looksee

Mod warning:

Ex loco refugii, you have altered a quote from Cabaal in order to give the answer you prefer. If you must alter quotes you should at least indicate in your reply that you have done so. Whether or not it was intended to be 'in jest' is irrelevant.

Do not respond to this warning in thread.

looksee

looksee wrote: »

Mod warning:

Ex loco refugii, you have altered a quote from Cabaal in order to give the answer you prefer. If you must alter quotes you should at least indicate in your reply that you have done so. Whether or not it was intended to be 'in jest' is irrelevant.

Do not respond to this warning in thread.

I did not edit anything, I think Cabaal edited his post himself in the short time-frame before "edited at" shows.

Hotblack Desiato

Jayla Orange Turtle wrote: »

It is rather disturbing, I must say, to see recent horrors and massacre being portrayed as mere "understandable belligerence".

There is a difference between explaining and excusing.

Jayla Orange Turtle

Jayla Orange Turtle wrote: »

The end of this world isn't really the 'end' of everything you know. It is not a nihilistic vision, like that of the Godless materialist where death is indeed the end.

Actually it is if you are looking forward to it ending and actively trying to bring it about, because you believe that you and a chosen few are going somewhere special, when actually you wouldn't be due to those very hopes and actions.
It's definitely shows an inability to enjoy life and all it brings, and money or materialism has nothing to do with that.

Fuzzyduzzy

Could be connected? Curious what the religious perspective is on this.
https://twitter.com/PostDisclosure/status/1393927278669746179?s=20