Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

hynesie08

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well you are here going on about constitutional rights to a passport whenever you demand it.


But you don't seem to understand what a passport actually is. So the obvious question was to ask whether you ever had one.


I would have assumed that most people would have had one. It's hardly asking you for the serial number to ask if you ever had one.

If I pay for passport express and you don't, and you get your passport before me, is that a violation of my human rights?

Coillte_Bhoy

ypres5 wrote: »

i quoted you the section from citizen's advice last night im not going looking for it again but it was written down in black and white so that even Donald Trump could comprehend it. also what makes you think ive never had a passport is that supposed to be some bizarre insult cause this is taking a bit of a weird turn

Seeing as you dont seem to understand the difference between Citizens Advice and the constitution this also from the Citizens Advice website

Your right to a passport may be restricted or limited.

Donald Trump

ypres5 wrote: »

You have a right to move freely within the State. You also have a broader right to travel and to get a passport for the purpose of travelling.

From citizens info website there's this amazing resource called google you type the stuff you're looking for in and it pops up you don't need other people to do it for you

Well they could also just look at the constitution.


Although if there is a disagreement between the constitution and google, our resident constitutional experts on here will tell you that the Supreme Court would always defer to google rather than the actual written constitution document.

ypres5

Windmill100000 wrote: »

This is scaremongering. We've come through recessions in the last decade. No one will say it's been easy, but I dont know anyone that wanted to work that has been out of work since then. Maybe there are some, but I have never heard of anyone. I don't know why people feel the need to exaggerate to the extreme to get a point across. You lose all credibility when this approach becomes the catch-cry time and time again.

so varadkar said the jobs of aer lingus staff aren't guaranteed? the pilot in the story is scaremongering that's why he had to take another job to pay his mortgage? best let him know he's nothing to worry about so windmill. what have i exaggerated? if you think the economy isn't going to be in the dumps once this is all over you're living in narnia

Coillte_Bhoy

ypres5 wrote: »

You have a right to move freely within the State. You also have a broader right to travel and to get a passport for the purpose of travelling.

From citizens info website there's this amazing resource called google you type the stuff you're looking for in and it pops up you don't need other people to do it for you

Indeed but if people are referencing information its generally accepted that they provide a link, no?

ypres5

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Seeing as you dont seem to understand the difference between Citizens Advice and the constitution this also from the Citizens Advice website

your right to a passport may be limited or restricted if you're on bail. maybe try reading the rest of the section rather than cherry picking

ypres5

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Indeed but if people are referencing information its generally accepted that they provide a link, no?

i already did that last night im not going to keep doing it on demand

hynesie08

ypres5 wrote: »

it is a constitutional right I sent you the section last night. i think it's more about you being nosy than trying to debate me or maybe you might need a hand filling in the form to apply. pm me if you do

40.4 yeah, feel free to point out the passport section there chief.

4 1° No citizen shall be deprived of his personal liberty save in accordance with law.

2° Upon complaint being made by or on behalf of any person to the High Court or any judge thereof alleging that such person is being unlawfully detained, the High Court and any and every judge thereof to whom such complaint is made shall forthwith enquire into the said complaint and may order the person in whose custody such person is detained to produce the body of such person before the High Court on a named day and to certify in writing the grounds of his detention, and the High Court shall, upon the body of such person being produced before that Court and after giving the person in whose custody he is detained an opportunity of justifying the detention, order the release of such person from such detention unless satisfied that he is being detained in accordance with the law.

3° Where the body of a person alleged to be unlawfully detained is produced before the High Court in pursuance of an order in that behalf made under this section and that Court is satisfied that such person is being detained in accordance with a law but that such law is invalid having regard to the provisions of this Constitution, the High Court shall refer the question of the validity of such law to the Court of Appeal by way of case stated and may, at the time of such reference or at any time thereafter, allow the said person to be at liberty on such bail and subject to such conditions as the High Court shall fix until the Court of Appeal has determined the question so referred to it.

4° The High Court before which the body of a person alleged to be unlawfully detained is to be produced in pursuance of an order in that behalf made under this section shall, if the President of the High Court or, if he is not available, the senior judge of that Court who is available so directs in respect of any particular case, consist of three judges and shall, in every other case, consist of one judge only.

5° Nothing in this section, however, shall be invoked to prohibit, control, or interfere with any act of the Defence Forces during the existence of a state of war or armed rebellion.

6° Provision may be made by law for the refusal of bail by a court to a person charged with a serious offence where it is reasonably considered necessary to prevent the commission of a serious offence by that person

Donald Trump

hynesie08 wrote: »

If I pay for passport express and you don't, and you get your passport before me, is that a violation of my human rights?

Get the UN on the case!




The reason that the poster refuses to say whether they have a passport is that they know that I am just going to ask them whether they paid for it!


Imagine being silly enough to pay 80 quid (or whatever it is currently) for something that is your constitutional right to receive at the time of your demanding. :pac:

Donald Trump

ypres5 wrote: »

your right to a passport may be limited or restricted if you're on bail. maybe try reading the rest of the section rather than cherry picking

Your right to a passport may also be limited if you keep losing it or if is stolen a few times.

Strange that isn't it?



They must have that in the footnotes of the constitution as well. A little asterix beside where it specifies the right to an immediate passport on demand

Neagra

Neagra wrote: »

i have read that article previously - that does not answer any points i raised in my post bar proving the spin is real

I get it. “Doesn’t accord with my view = spin” “Half baked ideas using facts taken completely out of context = open mind”

Have a look at the death rates per 100k in the uk in the 80’s and then you may understand the reality of 100k excess deaths

Coillte_Bhoy

ypres5 wrote: »

i already did that last night im not going to keep doing it on demand

Because it doesnt exist, does it. Literally would take seconds for you to go back through your posts to find it but no. Anyway also from Citizens Advice site

Fundamental rights are not absolute - they can be limited or restricted by the Oireachtas for certain reasons, for example, for the common good or public order.

ypres5

hynesie08 wrote: »

40.4 yeah, feel free to point out the passport section there chief.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/irish_constitution_1/constitution_fundamental_rights.html

like i said to the other poster if you feel citizens info are posting disinformation on their website email them and let them know 'chief'

growleaves

Donald Trump wrote: »

Still waiting on the link to where it says it in the constitution that you are entitled to an immediate passport whenever you want it. Rather than some link to the citizens information that you were likely just unable to comprehend properly.


People can't just unilaterally decide that something is their constitutional right whenever it suits them


You clearly have never had a passport. And you just won't admit it. Which is pretty strange. What is the big deal?

I can't believe two people liked this comment.

Its one thing to be confused about how constitutional law works, its another thing to be almost proud of it. Doesn't make the pro-restrictions people look very smart.

One last time:

You demanded to know which article of the constitution guaranteed your right to a passport and you were told: article 40.4

The articles of the constitution are interpreted by the courts. These rulings are then settled constitutional law. So when a judge says the "right to liberty" means a broad right to travel and have a passport, then that's what it means.

The Citizens Information site informs members of the public that owning a passport is their fundamental constitutional right. That is how the government explains it to people, but they don't go into fine detail.

To find the actual case law behind this we'd have to go to a law library and start digging through the archives. Except all the law libraries are closed because of the restrictions.

It would be very interesting to conduct a Current Quality of Life Index for Ireland. I would think it would show a significant drop to where it stood previously.

ypres5

Donald Trump wrote: »

Get the UN on the case!




The reason that the poster refuses to say whether they have a passport is that they know that I am just going to ask them whether they paid for it!


Imagine being silly enough to pay 80 quid (or whatever it is currently) for something that is your constitutional right to receive at the time of your demanding. :pac:

no it's just I'm not going to share my information with some random nosy parker on the internet. again didn't mammy teach you it's rude to pry?

Windmill100000

ypres5 wrote: »

so varadkar said the jobs of aer lingus staff aren't guaranteed? the pilot in the story is scaremongering that's why he had to take another job to pay his mortgage? best let him know he's nothing to worry about so windmill. what have i exaggerated? if you think the economy isn't going to be in the dumps once this is all over you're living in narnia

I never said we are going to be just grand. People have lost jobs. Many people have. Suggesting there is going to be nothing left is pure bs though. Like the recession before this it took time to build up again, but it happened and it will happen again.

normanoffside

Del Griffith wrote: »

I stand corrected, to be fair it does read like they want the lists cleared. Possibly is clarified behind the payroll.

Still, the fact that its very believable that NPHET would recommend keeping restrictions to clear all waiting lists for any illness, is a statement in itself.

There seem to be plenty of spare beds and idle nurses in some hospitals. Why don't they get working on the waiting lists already?

https://twitter.com/DinnyKelly91/status/1363184887004553217

Donald Trump

growleaves wrote: »

I can't believe two people liked this comment.

Its one thing to be confused about how constitutional law works, its another thing to be almost proud of it. Doesn't make the pro-restrictions people look very smart.

One last time:

You demanded to know which article of the constitution guaranteed your right to a passport and you were told: article 40.4

The articles of the constitution are interpreted by the courts. These rulings are then settled constitutional law. So when a judge says the "right to liberty" means a broad right to travel and have a passport, then that's what it means.

The Citizens Information site informs members of the public that owning a passport is their fundamental constitutional right. That is how the government explains it to people, but they don't go into fine detail.

To find the actual case law behind this we'd have to go to law library and start digging through the archives. Except all the law libraries are closed because of the restrictions.

Can you not just give us the oul' reference there. And we can all head into the Law Library when this is over to read the case law which specifies the right to an immediate passport on demand.



You also refused to answer the passport question. So I'll ask you a hypothetical one. If you were to apply for a passport, would you pay for it?

hynesie08

ypres5 wrote: »

so varadkar said the jobs of aer lingus staff aren't guaranteed? the pilot in the story is scaremongering that's why he had to take another job to pay his mortgage? best let him know he's nothing to worry about so windmill. what have i exaggerated? if you think the economy isn't going to be in the dumps once this is all over you're living in narnia

How can the Irish government Guarentee the jobs of a privately owned British company?

SnuggyBear

normanoffside wrote: »

There seem to be plenty of spare beds and idle nurses in some hospitals. Why don't they get working on the waiting lists already?

https://twitter.com/DinnyKelly91/status/1363184887004553217

I wouldn't have time to have a break when I was working but they have the time to do this ****? lol

ypres5

hynesie08 wrote: »

How can the Irish government Guarentee the jobs of a privately owned British company?

ask Leo varadkar he's the one who said it not me

Donald Trump

ypres5 wrote: »

no it's just I'm not going to share my information with some random nosy parker on the internet. again didn't mammy teach you it's rude to pry?

So which is it?
You weren't able to fill out an application yourself so that you don't know how to do it, or you don't want to admit that you paid 80 quid for something that you claim should have been provided to you immediately on demand?

Lundstram

growleaves wrote: »

I can't believe two people liked this comment.

Its one thing to be confused about how constitutional law works, its another thing to be almost proud of it. Doesn't make the pro-restrictions people look very smart.

One last time:

You demanded to know which article of the constitution guaranteed your right to a passport and you were told: article 40.4

The articles of the constitution are interpreted by the courts. These rulings are then settled constitutional law. So when a judge says the "right to liberty" means a broad right to travel and have a passport, then that's what it means.

The Citizens Information site informs members of the public that owning a passport is their fundamental constitutional right. That is how the government explains it to people, but they don't go into fine detail.

To find the actual case law behind this we'd have to go to law library and start digging through the archives. Except all the law libraries are closed because of the restrictions.

I'm still laughing the poster who suggested passport express invalidated this as a right.

Healthcare treatment is a basic human right but half the country pays for private healthcare.

Food is a basic human right. Some shop in Lidl, others shop in M&S. It's still a basic right.

I believe these posters hate people who travel, hate people having a few pints with friends, hate the social aspect of life. The restrictions have dragged the whole populace down to their social level and they feel better about themselves. They no longer feel like outcasts and don't want it to end anytime soon.

ypres5

Donald Trump wrote: »

So which is it?
You weren't able to fill out an application yourself so that you don't know how to do it, or you don't want to admit that you paid 80 quid for something that you claim should have been provided to you immediately on demand?

when did i say that you should get a passport immediately on demand? youre just talking pure nonsense

hynesie08

ypres5 wrote: »

ask Leo varadkar he's the one who said it not me

He said he couldn't guarantee their jobs? Which is a perfectly accurate statement.

ypres5

hynesie08 wrote: »

He said he couldn't guarantee their jobs? Which is a perfectly accurate statement.

again you're going to have to ask leo varadkar for his rationale behind the statement. i just put the article up to lament the sorry state our flag carrying airline has been reduced to. i have family involved in the industry and it's awful for them to have their careers hanging by a thread like this

Donald Trump

ypres5 wrote: »

when did i say that you should get a passport immediately on demand? youre just talking pure nonsense

Well you are on here about violation of your rights because passport workers are working from home and can't physically process passports temporarily.


And since when are constitutional rights only available to those who can afford to pay for them? Not very constitutional now is it?

SnuggyBear

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well you are on here about violation of your rights because passport workers are working from home and can't physically process passports temporarily.


And since when are constitutional rights only available to those who can afford to pay for them? Not very constitutional now is it?

Just stop your embarrassing yourself

hynesie08

Lundstram wrote: »

I'm still laughing the poster who suggested passport express invalidated this as a right.

Healthcare treatment is a basic human right but half the country pays for private healthcare.

Food is a basic human right. Some shop in Lidl, others shop in M&S. It's still a basic right.

I believe these posters hate people who travel, hate people having a few pints with friends, hate the social aspect of life. The restrictions have dragged the whole populace down to their social level and they feel better about themselves. They no longer feel like outcasts and don't want it to end anytime soon.

My passport is expired and I go to the states 3 times a year so that kills your argument.

I could apply for a new one and I would receive it..... Eventually, because I would be at the bottom of a very long list.

Was it a human rights violation a couple of years back when the passport office had a staff shortage and people had to spend the day in a queue with no guarentee of being seen?

If this is such a disgrace, how come none of you noticed for 6 weeks?

And most importantly lundy, where is the uks clear and concise exit plan? Starting to think you're avoiding the question now.....