Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

batman_oh

Graham wrote: »

The main point appears to be adherence to restrictions and enforcement of same.

I'm sure you knew that but just decided to nit-pick because non-essential retail was not specifically mentioned.

You are really a disagreeable person aren't you!
I was replying to the post that said other than cinemas and restaurants being closed nothing is really different.
I made the point that most of Grafton Street is closed.
You are the one nit picking because your first reply was nonsense and now you are trying to pull some sort of moral high ground.
Try reading things better in future.
What I replied to was outright false. It's not nit picking to point that out.

Boggles

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

But it's significantly lower than when we implemented the current restrictions. It's not logical to have the same level of restrictions as we had a month ago when our daily cases were an order of magnitude higher.

There is over 3 times more in ICU then when level 5 kicked in.

It's why public health look at numerous data points to base their decisions on.

Graham

timmyntc wrote: »

we live in the real world though and you can't get much tougher compliance really.

Gardai are already wasting their time enforcing checkpoints and making sure people dont go more than 5km beyond their home. Do you really think there is scope for more enforcement?

Enforcement is, and always has been light touch.

Yes, enforcement could be much tougher. The fact so many in this thread delight in telling everyone they're ignoring the restrictions demonstrates that quite clearly.

There’s a deadly disease out there at the moment. It’s killing so many people. It’s called cancer.

Public colonoscopy waiting lists are scandalous now. CT scans are the same. We also paused cancer screenings for months last year. Breast check only ran at 30% last year.

I had my own health scare this year. Paid 280 for CT scan and 1250 for colonoscopy. Doctors told me I could be waiting years if I didn’t go private.

Disgraceful what we are doing in this country. Only Covid matters

Graham

batman_oh wrote: »

You are really a disagreeable person aren't you!

and yet I'm not the one getting personal.

timmyntc

Graham wrote: »

Enforcement is, and always has been light touch.

Yes, enforcement could be much tougher. The fact so many in this thread delight in telling everyone they're ignoring the restrictions demonstrates that quite clearly.

Enforcement has been mostly relying on policing by consent, because we dont have the resources to physically enforce the restrictions on everyone - especially when theres arbitrary restrictions like 5km from your home - which wastes so much of gardai time checking addresses etc, and doesnt really do much for virus rates.

So given that we do not have the resources to enforce everything any stricter, how do you propose enforcement could be much tougher?

Corby Trouser Press

Boggles wrote: »

You know what, I'm going to give you a pass, you are self building during this.

You have the right to rant and rave IMO.

Personally I'd hound him.

You've done your back of the envelope calculations and deemed construction to be largely open.

Asking why we are the only country in Europe to deem house building a non-essential activity is hardly ranting and raving.

Hellrazer

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Meanwhile in Ireland we seem to be taking the approach of implementing the same restrictions regardless of infection level. 8000 cases a day? Level 4.99999999999999. 5000 cases a day? Level 4.9999999999998. 2000 cases a day? Level 4.9999999999997. 1000 cases a day? Let me check there - that's level 4.9999999999996 as well.

We're below 1000 cases a day now and we're taking the radical approach of staying in level 5. Oh and we might finally have proper control over people coming in from high risk countries in the next 3 or 4 weeks. Maybe. When that comes in, we might be able to move to level 4.9999999999995.

I have to correct your post here. Theyre not all level 5.
They are within the 5 levels of Living with a useless government Covid

batman_oh

Graham wrote: »

and yet I'm not the one getting personal.

And I'm not the one reading something that somebody else posted, completely ignoring the point and giving my own opinion and then saying the are nit picking when they don't like when it's pointed out.
But good talk!

robbiezero

Graham wrote: »

Enforcement is, and always has been light touch.

Yes, enforcement could be much tougher. The fact so many in this thread delight in telling everyone they're ignoring the restrictions demonstrates that quite clearly.

Enforcement of what exactly?

More Guards on the beaches, hills, parks forests?

paw patrol

Boggles wrote: »

Well you'll need to get on to the federation and tell them they are spouting lies so.

why would i bother?

timmyntc

robbiezero wrote: »

Enforcement of what exactly?

More Guards on the beaches, hills, parks forests?

Peeking in your windows at dinner to ensure no household mixing going on

Geuze

thebaz wrote: »

Its been confirmed that the virus hardly transmits outside , and the scare stories from last summer outdoor spreading was all wrong; we have had lockdown for nearly a year, the virus spreads indoors , and already the Autorities are saying they are going to police outdorr gatherings - Eneogh really is Eneogh :-

Yes, given that transmission is indoors, I don't understand why there are restrictions at parks, beach, etc.

Doctor Jimbob

Boggles wrote: »

Looking around some of the countries that have relaxed in the past couple of weeks, incidence rate seems to be rising.

The problem is if you open up and have to shut down again, that will be an even bigger kick to the populous, not to mention the economic costs.

We just got a stark example of how fast things can get out of control.

Cases in New York have been falling since January. The numbers have leveled off now, but I wouldn't say they're rising. They have indoor dining everywhere but the city and are looking at lifting that restriction there as well. Obviously there are limits on capacity, but it's not a total shutdown like we have here. Restrictions in general are looser than what we have here. They also have schools opened, although they seem to be keeping an eye on this by region. We don't seem to have plans of doing anything similar until Summer.

Maybe there are other countries/regions where things aren't going so well. I'm somewhat familiar with the situation in New York as my partner is from there, I haven't been keeping up with everywhere else as much. Some family in Canada mentioned they're reopening to an extent there, although I'm not sure on the details.

I'm not arguing for a complete reopening at all, but I'm not convinced there's any evidence to support the idea that reopening a little would result in anything close to a repeat of January.

https://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Tracker/NYSDOHCOVID-19Tracker-DailyTracker?%3Aembed=yes&%3Atoolbar=no&%3Atabs=n

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-27/cuomo-lifts-gathering-restrictions-across-new-york-state

Doctor Jimbob

Boggles wrote: »

There is over 3 times more in ICU then when level 5 kicked in.

It's why public health look at numerous data points to base their decisions on.

In all fairness the post I initially responded to was talking about different restrictions in different countries depending on the differing infection levels.

There's also a lag between cases and ICU numbers. The majority of those in ICU were likely infected a couple of weeks ago.

ingo1984

There are two choices.

1) ease restrictions only for the cases to rise again and end up in lockdown again

2) or wait it out, surpress the spread and cases, let vaccine effect take hold, then when you do ease restrictions it will be for the last time.

Graham

timmyntc wrote: »

Enforcement has been mostly relying on policing by consent, because we dont have the resources to physically enforce the restrictions on everyone - especially when theres arbitrary restrictions like 5km from your home - which wastes so much of gardai time checking addresses etc, and doesnt really do much for virus rates.

So given that we do not have the resources to enforce everything any stricter, how do you propose enforcement could be much tougher?

Stiffer penalties and a few hundred people a week in front of a judge would send out a fairly strong message.

That's not to say it's something I'd call for but let's not pretend that there's nothing more that could be done.

Doctor Jimbob

ingo1984 wrote: »

There are two choices.

1) ease restrictions only for the cases to rise again and end up in lockdown again

2) or wait it out, surpress the spread and cases, let vaccine effect take hold, then when you do ease restrictions it will be for the last time.

3) Gradually ease restrictions as more people get vaccinated, keeping infections at a manageable number while allowing some degree of normality to return.

Hellrazer

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

3) Gradually ease restrictions as more people get vaccinated, keeping infections at a manageable number while allowing some degree of normality to return.

Thats actually the best of a bad lot. But there would have to be certain criteria set down in order to allow the degree of normality to return.

ingo1984

ingo1984 wrote: »

There are two choices.

1) ease restrictions only for the cases to rise again and end up in lockdown again

2) or wait it out, surpress the spread and cases, let vaccine effect take hold, then when you do ease restrictions it will be for the last time.

Option 1 all day.

Plenty of data from around the world to show that living with the virus is quite easy between May and October.

And we should have most vaccinated by then anyways.

And frankly, staying in lockdown to avoid lockdown is pathetic.

Boggles

Corby Trouser Press wrote: »

You've done your back of the envelope calculations and deemed construction to be largely open.

Nope.

I was paraphrasing the head of the federation, you'll have to take it up with him.

Graham

ingo1984 wrote: »

1) ease restrictions only for the cases to rise again and end up in lockdown again

Deleted User wrote: »

Option 1 all day.

You'd like to ease restrictions now to end up in lockdown again?

Odd

Boggles

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

In all fairness the post I initially responded to was talking about different restrictions in different countries depending on the differing infection levels.

There's also a lag between cases and ICU numbers. The majority of those in ICU were likely infected a couple of weeks ago.

Probably, the point though is we have far less capacity now than we had when restrictions kicked in.

So infection rate is not the only metric when deciding on easing restrictions, was my main point.

GiftofGab

Is there a tread on the pubs/clubs closing time being extended??

opinionated3

Graham wrote: »

You'd like to ease restrictions now to end up in lockdown again?

Odd

Why would you be back in lockdown if everyone is vaccinated.......I think that might have been his point

Graham

Graham wrote: »

You'd like to ease restrictions now to end up in lockdown again?

Odd

Well I don’t think we would end up in lockdown again as I explained.

But even if we did, yes it would be better than just staying in lockdown indefinitely.

timmyntc

Graham wrote: »

Stiffer penalties and a few hundred people a week in front of a judge would send out a fairly strong message.

That's not to say it's something I'd call for but let's not pretend that there's nothing more that could be done.

Penalties for what?
There is already penalties for breaching the 5k - do you want harsh fines for being caught outside meeting someone from another household?

How can gardai prove this? They have no knowledge of who lives together and who doesnt. It's all totally unworkable, just like the 5km rule is. Most people can just lie and say they live within 5km of this checkpoint, or else that they are driving to/from the nearest shop.

These rules sound good in theory (to someone) but nobody thinks of how the gardai are expected to enforce them.

Graham

timmyntc wrote: »

Penalties for what?
There is already penalties for breaching the 5k - do you want harsh fines for being caught outside meeting someone from another household?

Not at all what I said.

jams100

ingo1984 wrote: »

There are two choices.

1) ease restrictions only for the cases to rise again and end up in lockdown again

2) or wait it out, surpress the spread and cases, let vaccine effect take hold, then when you do ease restrictions it will be for the last time.

It amazes me how people think that it is a binary choice.

Certain activities have proven across the globe to negativity contribute to the spread of covid. There is zero evidence for closing golf/tennis/construction, especially so when the infection rate is low as it is now.

Again, what other eu country closed their construction sector?

Doctor Jimbob

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

3) Gradually ease restrictions as more people get vaccinated, keeping infections at a manageable number while allowing some degree of normality to return.

But that is what we are doing, starting with schools. Glad to see all those offering thanks are finally on board