Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Graham

opinionated3 wrote: »

Why would you be back in lockdown if everyone is vaccinated.......I think that might have been his point

We'll be lucky to see everyone vaccinated by Q4, I'd hope to see restrictions relaxed way before then.

Getting the case numbers low enough to start and ease restrictions sooner while the vaccination program progresses sounds much better then reopening now to have case numbers leap up again forcing another set of restrictions.

LuckyLloyd

facehugger99 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

'I'm all right Jack - Fcuk people who've lost their business'.

Well some posters in this thread claim to be people of business and the economy, so they should appreciate more than the average person the more vulnerable nature of businesses in certain sectors. If you sell non essential services to the public you are at the mercy of consumer confidence. You are the first to go bust, and businesses like yours are the first to reemerge when things start turning back in the right direction.

Everything in a public health crisis is about prioritisation. We are choosing to lock down certain types of economic activity so we protect the fundamental core of our economy and society. This is terrible for the people involved, just as it is terrible for the families of those who have died or who are now suffering from impaired quality of life due to long covid.

The broader news is really good. The vaccines seem to work very well, it seems we will be distributing a quarter million doses a week soon. When we're through the other side cafes like the one lamented by Lundstram will be the first to reopen. These are cold hard but necessary macro policy choices.

retro:electro

The thing is, while some construction is technically open, the sector as a whole has not been green lit to restart. And so when this does occur, say sometime mid-late March, we will effectively be stalling any progress in other industries for 3-4 weeks while we see how things play out — even though, according to some here, construction has been back for weeks. Will those who are saying construction has been ongoing for weeks now then see it as futile to stall any reopening of other sectors while we wait and see if cases rise as a result of a sector that is, according to them, open for weeks now? And will they then be calling for other industries to reopen instead?

Doctor Jimbob

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But that is what we are doing, starting with schools. Glad to see all those offering thanks are finally on board

Sure, I was just taking issue with the implication that it's an all or nothing situation.

We should be moving a bit faster with it though. If we're in a position where we cam open schools, surely we're in a position to open outdoor dining, low risk sports, and all construction.

Multipass

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There’s a deadly disease out there at the moment. It’s killing so many people. It’s called cancer.

Public colonoscopy waiting lists are scandalous now. CT scans are the same. We also paused cancer screenings for months last year. Breast check only ran at 30% last year.

I had my own health scare this year. Paid 280 for CT scan and 1250 for colonoscopy. Doctors told me I could be waiting years if I didn’t go private.

Disgraceful what we are doing in this country. Only Covid matters

From now on they’ll be saying the waiting times are because of the tragic covid crisis, no-ones fault.

Russman

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Sure, I was just taking issue with the implication that it's an all or nothing situation.

We should be moving a bit faster with it though. If we're in a position where we cam open schools, surely we're in a position to open outdoor dining, low risk sports, and all construction.

If there was to be a spike (hopefully there won't be), if we do it slowly we have a better chance of identifying what element it was that lead to it, I would think.

thebaz

Every day ther is a new spin propagated through the non stop doom and gloom and anxiety driven media - we are coming up to 12 months of lockdowm - thats a year of everyones life - for a virus with 0.4 mortality rate and we have a vaccine - a year ago everyone would have been delighted with those facts - but the Media through the new celebrity over cautious Professors and experts and Government are still terrifing the nation with over anxiety about opening up anything, now its schools - regardless of its benefit to our life - One year of our life has been taken away , do we want another taken away ? I certainly dont and most balanced people I kniow dont want it either.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But that is what we are doing, starting with schools. Glad to see all those offering thanks are finally on board

Lol, I think the timeline is the issue.
We’ll be into month 5 of severe lockdown before we might be allowed to leave our 5km imprisonment.

Hellrazer

Graham wrote: »

We'll be lucky to see everyone vaccinated by Q4, .

Can I ask why you think this when our government says differently?


Lack of supply or just incompetence in the roll out?


I actually feel the exact same that it will be much later in the year before we are fully vaccinated but I feel it will be because the government couldnt organize a piss up rather than lack of supply.

Hellrazer

thebaz wrote: »

Every day ther is a new spin propagated through the non stop doom and gloom and anxiety driven media - we are coming up to 12 months of lockdowm - thats a year of everyones life - for a virus with 0.4 mortality rate and we have a vaccine -

Its a 0.4- 0.5%% mortality rate for OVER 65s. As a percentage of the population as a whole its ONLY 0.08%

And yet we are staying locked down for figures these low.

Boggles

retro:electro wrote: »

The thing is, while some construction is technically open, the sector as a whole has not been green lit to restart. And so when this does occur, say sometime mid-late March, we will effectively be stalling any progress in other industries for 3-4 weeks while we see how things play out — even though, according to some here, construction has been back for weeks. Will those who are saying construction has been ongoing for weeks now then see it as futile to stall any reopening of other sectors while we wait and see if cases rise as a result of a sector that is, according to them, open for weeks now? And will they then be calling for other industries to reopen instead?

You are looking at it wrong.

The rest of us are restricted at the moment to allow things like construction operate.

Unlike the lockdown last Spring the vast vast majority of it was deemed non essential.

This reopening of the rest of the sector and other sectors will now have to run parallel with the reopening of schools and keeping them open, something we didn't have to worry about during wave 1 or subsequently into the summer.

The 2 key priorities is children and non covid health care.

Then Construction and non essential retail.

I imagine the aim is to get at least 3 of those going again before the end of April whilst ramping up the vaccination efforts.

Staggered return of schools, aspects of non covid health care to restart, staggered return of the rest of construction, click and collect for non essential retail with a view to full opening with proper restrictions.

That would be my guess of what will be announced tomorrow.

The plan is conservative, but apart from peoples annoyance no one has put forward a more reasonable one based on the reality of your current situation.

Lundstram

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well some posters in this thread claim to be people of business and the economy, so they should appreciate more than the average person the more vulnerable nature of businesses in certain sectors. If you sell non essential services to the public you are at the mercy of consumer confidence. You are the first to go bust, and businesses like yours are the first to reemerge when things start turning back in the right direction.

Everything in a public health crisis is about prioritisation. We are choosing to lock down certain types of economic activity so we protect the fundamental core of our economy and society. This is terrible for the people involved, just as it is terrible for the families of those who have died or who are now suffering from impaired quality of life due to long covid.

The broader news is really good. The vaccines seem to work very well, it seems we will be distributing a quarter million doses a week soon. When we're through the other side cafes like the one lamented by Lundstram will be the first to reopen. These are cold hard but necessary macro policy choices.

So to sum up your post, “you’re business isn’t important, it’s a cafe, tough sh1t”.

You do realise this is one place that we just know of, pub up the road from me finished for good, 8 staff unemployed. And not “temporarily unemployed” like Graham was trying to convince us. They have no job to return to.

I’m sure there’s hundreds more cafes, pubs etc in Ireland that will never reopen.

Thousands of staff with no job to return to but still bills to pay.

These places should have been open last summer just like they were all across Europe but the Irish knew better, apparently.

Talking about longer opening hours now for pubs and clubs when they reopen, unfortunately there’s many that will never reopen.

They’ve been treated like second class citizens for a year now and you come on here saying “tough sh1t”.

Charming.

thebaz

Hellrazer wrote: »

Can I ask why you think this when our government says differently?


Lack of supply or just incompetence in the roll out?


I actually feel the exact same that it will be much later in the year before we are fully vaccinated but I feel it will be because the government couldnt organize a piss up rather than lack of supply.

Denmark hope to vaccinate the whole of ther population by June - they are in the EU too - at our daily 6 oclock conference , no one asks any tough questions of NPHET - just the usual HoldFirm / In this together over-anxious stuff we have being hearing for a year now - meanwhile the authorities then warn the public to stop mixing outside , the very thing thats keeps us healty and somewhat sane - The virus spreads indoors -
Its all pretty pathetic to put it mildly.

doublejobbing 2

retro:electro wrote: »

— even though, according to some here, construction has been back for weeks.

"Construction has been open all along" is a bit like last April/ May's hysterical hyperbole every time we had a bank holiday or a bit of good weather "the crowds out today were a disgrace, wait til you see the figures next week" and all they did was decline decline decline.

It is either over active imaginations or people on a wind up.

hynesie08

thebaz wrote: »

Denmark hope to vaccinate the whole of ther population by June - they are in the EU too - at our daily 6 oclock conference , no one asks any tough questions of NPHET - just the usual HoldFirm / In this together over-anxious stuff we have being hearing for a year now - meanwhile the authorities then warn the public to stop mixing outside , the very thing thats keeps us healty and somewhat sane - The virus spreads indoors -
Its all pretty pathetic to put it mildly.

Where are they planning on getting the vaccines from?

MethMartin

Graham wrote: »

We'll be lucky to see everyone vaccinated by Q4, I'd hope to see restrictions relaxed way before then.

Getting the case numbers low enough to start and ease restrictions sooner while the vaccination program progresses sounds much better then reopening now to have case numbers leap up again forcing another set of restrictions.

Are you a troll or do you simply ignore the facts? We are expecting to receiving 1 million doses per month from April.

So how on earth will we be 'lucky' to vaccinate everyone by the end of Q4? Your maths doesn't add up. Also we don't need to vaccinate everyone to achieve heard immunity.

thebaz

hynesie08 wrote: »

Where are they planning on getting the vaccines from?

https://www.thelocal.dk/20210215/denmark-adjusts-expected-date-for-completion-of-covid-19-vaccination-programme

doublejobbing 2

thebaz wrote: »

Every day ther is a new spin propagated through the non stop doom and gloom and anxiety driven media - we are coming up to 12 months of lockdowm - thats a year of everyones life - for a virus with 0.4 mortality rate and we have a vaccine - a year ago everyone would have been delighted with those facts - but the Media through the new celebrity over cautious Professors and experts and Government are still terrifing the nation with over anxiety about opening up anything, now its schools - regardless of its benefit to our life - One year of our life has been taken away , do we want another taken away ? I certainly dont and most balanced people I kniow dont want it either.

Remember in March, the audio WhatsApps going about threatening martial law? Videos alleging Hazmat crews had shut down various Dublin offices and building sites? Local rumour that, gasp, Covid is now in our estate, that there was a van seen taking Martin Dunne up the road away, that he was at Cheltenham?

Jaysis, today most people would barely be worried if they tested positive. If they still have a job to go to your biggest gripe would be being put on sick pay for 2 weeks.

We are kept in a perpetual hell by rabid left wingers who think they speak for us all.

hynesie08

thebaz wrote: »

https://www.thelocal.dk/20210215/denmark-adjusts-expected-date-for-completion-of-covid-19-vaccination-programme

I read that, and I'm not disbelieving them, but the maths isn't working out in my head.

I'd love to see a delivery schedule.

Patches oHoulihan

thebaz wrote: »

Every day ther is a new spin propagated through the non stop doom and gloom and anxiety driven media - we are coming up to 12 months of lockdowm - thats a year of everyones life - for a virus with 0.4 mortality rate and we have a vaccine - a year ago everyone would have been delighted with those facts - but the Media through the new celebrity over cautious Professors and experts and Government are still terrifing the nation with over anxiety about opening up anything, now its schools - regardless of its benefit to our life - One year of our life has been taken away , do we want another taken away ? I certainly dont and most balanced people I kniow dont want it either.

totally agree.
I am done listening to it now.

Lundstram

Lundstram wrote: »

Talking about longer opening hours now for pubs and clubs when they reopen, unfortunately there’s many that will never reopen.

This is a blatant appeasement/distraction tactic, btw, for anyone who hasn't seen through it.

"When clubs reopen, we'll extend the opening hours. That said, there are no plans to reopen clubs. We'll reassess cautiously next year".

LuckyLloyd

Lundstram wrote: »

So to sum up your post, “you’re business isn’t important, it’s a cafe, tough sh1t”.

You do realise this is one place that we just know of, pub up the road from me finished for good, 8 staff unemployed. And not “temporarily unemployed” like Graham was trying to convince us. They have no job to return to.

I’m sure there’s hundreds more cafes, pubs etc in Ireland that will never reopen.

Thousands of staff with no job to return to but still bills to pay.

These places should have been open last summer just like they were all across Europe but the Irish knew better, apparently.

Talking about longer opening hours now for pubs and clubs when they reopen, unfortunately there’s many that will never reopen.

They’ve been treated like second class citizens for a year now and you come on here saying “tough sh1t”.

Charming.

A particular cafe, pub etc may never reopen but one like it will once public confidence is restored and demand returns to the economy. The thousands of staff laid off won't have their old job but they'll be able to attain a new one in time.

To achieve pre levels of confidence and demand requires us to solve the public health crisis. That's why they have been closed. And it is because we do not treat the old and those with underlying health conditions as second conditions that we would not countenance some mad alternative.

You say you are a FG man, well your party have been at the forefront of implementing this approach. The fallacy is in believing that we could just open everything up and pretend there is no virus. Not only would many of the businesses that have gone under not have survived, but the more important drivers of our economy would have been compromised.

Tough hard decisions had to be made. It may not be "charming" to analyse the situation within the context of the bigger economic picture, but facts are more important than feelings on this stuff.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Not only would many of the businesses that have gone under not have survived, but the more important drivers of our economy would have been compromised.

Tough hard decisions had to be made. It may not be "charming" to analyse the situation within the context of the bigger economic picture, but facts are more important than feelings on this stuff.

I would argue decisions have been made predominantly based on feelings/fear, and not facts.

You do not burn down the village to save it. The more we go down this path, the more serious economic trouble we are in.

ypres5

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A particular cafe, pub etc may never reopen but one like it will once public confidence is restored and demand returns to the economy. The thousands of staff laid off won't have their old job but they'll be able to attain a new one in time.

To achieve pre levels of confidence and demand requires us to solve the public health crisis. That's why they have been closed. And it is because we do not treat the old and those with underlying health conditions as second conditions that we would not countenance some mad alternative.

You say you are a FG man, well your party have been at the forefront of implementing this approach. The fallacy is in believing that we could just open everything up and pretend there is no virus. Not only would many of the businesses that have gone under not have survived, but the more important drivers of our economy would have been compromised.

Tough hard decisions had to be made. It may not be "charming" to analyse the situation within the context of the bigger economic picture, but facts are more important than feelings on this stuff.

im sure if it was your job or business on the line and your ability to pay your bills or look after your family you'd be able to make the same clinical analysis or is it easier to do when it's everyone else?

Silentcorner

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A particular cafe, pub etc may never reopen but one like it will once public confidence is restored and demand returns to the economy. The thousands of staff laid off won't have their old job but they'll be able to attain a new one in time.

To achieve pre levels of confidence and demand requires us to solve the public health crisis. That's why they have been closed. And it is because we do not treat the old and those with underlying health conditions as second conditions that we would not countenance some mad alternative.

You say you are a FG man, well your party have been at the forefront of implementing this approach. The fallacy is in believing that we could just open everything up and pretend there is no virus. Not only would many of the businesses that have gone under not have survived, but the more important drivers of our economy would have been compromised.

Tough hard decisions had to be made. It may not be "charming" to analyse the situation within the context of the bigger economic picture, but facts are more important than feelings on this stuff.

You just have to laugh don't you....this is hysteria, you have to abandon reason to succumb to it...fact's are more important than feelings.

For about 80% of the last 12 months, Covid patients have occupied about 400 of our 11,000 beds, for 100% of that time we have been under heavy to severe restrictions...

For a virus with a 99.92% survival rate for people who's immune system isn't compromised ...and probably 99.5% for those with a compromised immune system.

We now have immunity we didn't have last year
We now know a lot more about the virus that we did last year
We know, like flu, there is a strong seasonality factor.
We now are vaccinating people with a vaccine we didn't have last year...

And yet, the fear, the hysteria, the emotion driven response is still all we have...just to keep us all afraid and hysterical!!!

irishguy1983

Quick question....I know we have a population of 5 million approx....How many are kids though??? Just trying to figure out how many exactly need to be vaccinated as kids are not being vaccinated right??

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

You just have to laugh don't you....this is hysteria, you have to abandon reason to succumb to it...fact's are more important than feelings.

For about 80% of the last 12 months, Covid patients have occupied about 400 of our 11,000 beds, for 100% of that time we have been under heavy to severe restrictions...

For a virus with a 99.92% survival rate for people who's immune system isn't compromised ...and probably 99.5% for those with a compromised immune system.

We now have immunity we didn't have last year
We now know a lot more about the virus that we did last year
We know, like flu, there is a strong seasonality factor.
We now are vaccinating people with a vaccine we didn't have last year...

And yet, the fear, the hysteria, the emotion driven response is still all we have...just to keep us all afraid and hysterical!!!

Exactly, he seems to have the whole thing in reverse.

doublejobbing 2

irishguy1983 wrote: »

Quick question....I know we have a population of 5 million approx....How many are kids though??? Just trying to figure out how many exactly need to be vaccinated as kids are not being vaccinated right??

About a quarter under 18 off the top of my head.

LuckyLloyd

Silentcorner wrote: »

You just have to laugh don't you....this is hysteria, you have to abandon reason to succumb to it...fact's are more important than feelings.

For about 80% of the last 12 months, Covid patients have occupied about 400 of our 11,000 beds, for 100% of that time we have been under heavy to severe restrictions...

For a virus with a 99.92% survival rate for people who's immune system isn't compromised ...and probably 99.5% for those with a compromised immune system.

We now have immunity we didn't have last year
We now know a lot more about the virus that we did last year
We know, like flu, there is a strong seasonality factor.
We now are vaccinating people with a vaccine we didn't have last year...

And yet, the fear, the hysteria, the emotion driven response is still all we have...just to keep us all afraid and hysterical!!!

Well, once again, a post of yours contains numerous factual inaccuracies. I think a lot of the posting on this thread would like the facts to align to the way the poster feels, and I do appreciate that desire is overwhelming and incredibly human. But unfortunately policy makers have to stay rooted in realism.

Again, the good news is coming. I firmly believe this is our last lockdown and the situation will look a lot more positive in six week’s time. The end truly is in sight.

Hellrazer

irishguy1983 wrote: »

Quick question....I know we have a population of 5 million approx....How many are kids though??? Just trying to figure out how many exactly need to be vaccinated as kids are not being vaccinated right??

Its around 3.6 million adults.

But we dont need to vaccinate all of these.

We only need to concentrate on everyone over 65 which is 700k.

Out of the current deaths 92% of them are in this age group 3780 out of 4109.

We should just throw all our vaccines at this age group and not have tiers at all. I would even argue about vaccinating health care workers first.

If we did this we could have all those over 65s done in 5 weeks @150,000 per week.

Deaths and hospitalizations would drop like stone and we could reopen completely within this time.