Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

TonyMaloney

TonyMaloney wrote: »

There is some kite flying going on in the UK with regard to foreign holidays this summer.
It sounds like they're not going to allow them, as they don't want variants undermining all the work they've done on the vaccine front.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/21/uk-minister-hints-covid-rules-on-foreign-travel-could-extend-to-summer

My guess is that the thinking will be the same here and in many other European countries.
The ramifications for countries like Spain, Italy and Greece are going to be ****ing terrible.

The EU are on a different page....

RobitTV

The UK has seen the third consecutive day with a record number of COVID vaccinations, after 873,784 people received the jab over the past 24 hours

FintanMcluskey

RobitTV wrote: »

The UK has seen the third consecutive day with a record number of COVID vaccinations, after 873,784 people received the jab over the past 24 hours

Boris is making a laughing stock out of us.

FintanMcluskey

facehugger99 wrote: »

Frightening road the country has traveled down over the last 12 months.

If the tenets of democracy and a free press are so easily eroded during a "pandemic" that mainly targets people beyond the age of life expectancy - it turns out they were not worth very much to start with.

The health act 1947 can be invoked so easily that the democracy may as well be constructed on toilet paper in Ireland.

The Swedes have an incredibly robust democracy that ensured they wouldn’t enter a 6 week lockdown like the rest of Europe did in March 2020

pm1977x

Locotastic wrote: »

Covid is also just minor inconvenience (if even that) to over 80% of people who get it. Once the vulnerable groups are vaccinated what reason would we have for these restrictions and mask wearing and social distancing?

The govt imposes lockdowns based on case numbers not on case numbers amongst the vulnerable. If I've to wear a mask and keep socially distanced to get businesses open and keep people in jobs I'll gladly do it, wouldn't you?

Locotastic

pm1977x wrote: »

The govt imposes lockdowns based on case numbers not on case numbers amongst the vulnerable. If I've to wear a mask and keep socially distanced to get businesses open and keep people in jobs I'll gladly do it, wouldn't you?

They should be basing it on more than case numbers then.

When they have these groups vaccinated there really will be no reason to even test unless someone is actually ill, so case numbers will be naturally lower anyway.

The idea that we will be wearing masks and social distancing for years like some posters have suggested is complete BS.

I have no problem wearing a mask and distancing if they allow these businesses to open now. I won't be doing it in a year's time and neither will the majority of the country.

Corholio

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Boris is making a laughing stock out of us.

I personally hate this 'vaccine competition' stuff. I'm happy people in Britain are getting vaccines quick and changing their lives. I understand it in sport, loose politics etc, but something unheralded like this it's silly to be in 'versus' mode and I'd prefer everyone vaccinated as soon as possible. Can leave this tit for tat stuff up to the likes of the Daily Mail. The EU problems are well documented but hopefully Q2 will see a big ramp up and good numbers being vaccinated.

Locotastic

Corholio wrote: »

I personally hate this 'vaccine competition' stuff. I'm happy people in Britain are getting vaccines quick and changing their lives. I understand it in sport, loose politics etc, but something unheralded like this it's silly to be in 'versus' mode and I'd prefer everyone vaccinated as soon as possible. Can leave this tit for tat stuff up to the likes of the Daily Mail. The EU problems are well documented but hopefully Q2 will see a big ramp up and good numbers being vaccinated.

It's OK to be just a teeny bit jealous of their vaccination progress compared to ours, sure we can all head up north for a party when they open up months before us. Maybe we can even get our hair done up there too for the occasion.

ypres5

Corholio wrote: »

I personally hate this 'vaccine competition' stuff. I'm happy people in Britain are getting vaccines quick and changing their lives. I understand it in sport, loose politics etc, but something unheralded like this it's silly to be in 'versus' mode and I'd prefer everyone vaccinated as soon as possible. Can leave this tit for tat stuff up to the likes of the Daily Mail. The EU problems are well documented but hopefully Q2 will see a big ramp up and good numbers being vaccinated.

it's not so much the notion of competition so much as the fact we could be in the same position as the uk with our vaccination campaign instead its rolled right into a bog. the past few months and most recently the fiasco with the blood clot hysteria has made the eu look like a bunch of petty inept bureaucrats

Gael23

I think the relaxation announcement will go fairly close to April 5th to stop people making plans for Easter weekend

Sharpyshoot

Gael23 wrote: »

I think the relaxation announcement will go fairly close to April 5th to stop people making plans for Easter weekend

People are looking forward to a meaningful Easter.

Locotastic

Gael23 wrote: »

I think the relaxation announcement will go fairly close to April 5th to stop people making plans for Easter weekend

How will it stop people making plans? They've already more or less told us there's going to very little in the way of relaxing restrictions.

There's very little they can do to actually stop people other than issue minor fines.

pm1977x

Locotastic wrote: »

They should be basing it on more than case numbers then.

When they have these groups vaccinated there really will be no reason to even test unless someone is actually ill, so case numbers will be naturally lower anyway.

The idea that we will be wearing masks and social distancing for years like some posters have suggested is complete BS.

I have no problem wearing a mask and distancing if they allow these businesses to open now. I won't be doing it in a year's time and neither will the majority of the country.

Why not?

Locotastic

pm1977x wrote: »

Why not?

Why would we? If elderly and vulnerable are protected it's business as usual.

ShadyAcres

Locotastic wrote: »

It's OK to be just a teeny bit jealous of their vaccination progress compared to ours, sure we can all head up north for a party when they open up months before us. Maybe we can even get our hair done up there too for the occasion.

Was texting my cousin in England yesterday.
My uncle (her dad) has had the 1st vaccine along with herself as she's a nurse.
Her brother in his 30s has had his since February. He had asthma when he was a child.
Two of her grown up children have also had theirs and they are healthy young adults.





Then there's Ireland...

pm1977x

Locotastic wrote: »

Why would we? If elderly and vulnerable are protected it's business as usual.

This is getting very circular, as I said earlier, lockdowns are based on case numbers, not elderly and vulnerable case numbers, so unless this is the new metric it may not be business as usual unless certain measures are retained in order to keep case numbers down.

Locotastic

pm1977x wrote: »

This is getting very circular, as I said earlier, lockdowns are based on case numbers, not elderly and vulnerable case numbers, so unless this is the new metric it may not be business as usual unless certain measures are retained in order to keep case numbers down.

Are they based solely on case numbers though?

Once very few are getting ill, testing and therefore cases will be reduced anyway.

ypres5

ShadyAcres wrote: »

Was texting my cousin in England yesterday.
My uncle (her dad) has had the 1st vaccine along with herself as she's a nurse.
Her brother in his 30s has had his since February. He had asthma when he was a child.
Two of her grown up children have also had theirs and they are healthy young adults.



Then there's Ireland...

Considering the Formula one season is starting up soon let's put ireland's and britain's vaccine campaigns in that context. The uk is lewis hamilton flying ahead of everyone else with a world class effort while ireland is pastor maldonado swerving into a barrier at the first turn

TonyMaloney

Locotastic wrote: »

Why would we? If elderly and vulnerable are protected it's business as usual.

That's not really happening. Anywhere.

It's definitely not going to happen here. If you don't steel yourself for what actually is going to happen here, it's all going to be even more difficult for you.

Locotastic

TonyMaloney wrote: »

That's not really happening. Anywhere.

It's definitely not going to happen here. If you don't steel yourself for what actually is going to happen here, it's all going to be even more difficult for you.

I don't need to steel myself for anything, I've already decided after a year of following all of the guidance that I won't be following nonsensical rules any more, the ones that don't make sense for me or my family.

It feels quite liberating actually. The very ones who will lead the way on this will be the elderly and vulnerable once they are vaccinated.

Our government were given every opportunity to get their act together and they failed at every hurdle. So no I won't be paying them a blind bit of notice.

darem93

RobitTV wrote: »

The UK has seen the third consecutive day with a record number of COVID vaccinations, after 873,784 people received the jab over the past 24 hours

As tough as this virus has been on a worldwide scale, at least the likes of the UK have their stunning vaccination rollout to stay positive. Us poor eejits here in Ireland will just have to "hold firm" and "do a little bit more" for the next few months I guess while our rollout trundles on at a snail's pace...

titan18

TonyMaloney wrote: »

That's not really happening. Anywhere.

It's definitely not going to happen here. If you don't steel yourself for what actually is going to happen here, it's all going to be even more difficult for you.

Didn't the CDC say no need for masks after vaccinations so once 70-80% of us are vaccinated here, why would we wear a mask.

Locotastic

titan18 wrote: »

Didn't the CDC say no need for masks after vaccinations so once 70-80% of us are vaccinated here, why would we wear a mask.

They did indeed, some people just love lockdown! Or want a good way to hide their double chins it's one or the other.

TonyMaloney

Locotastic wrote: »

I don't need to steel myself for anything, I've already decided after a year of following all of the guidance that I won't be following nonsensical rules any more, the ones that don't make sense for me or my family.

It feels quite liberating actually. The very ones who will lead the way on this will be the elderly and vulnerable once they are vaccinated.

Our government were given every opportunity to get their act together and they failed at every hurdle. So no I won't be paying them a blind bit of notice.

You do as you see fit. Doesn't really matter.
You might lose some friends by acting like this, but that's on you.

I'm just saying that the "we'll open up once the elderly and vulnerable" is false.
And if you convince someone that is true, then you're setting them up for a horrible few months.

ShadyAcres

darem93 wrote: »

As tough as this virus has been on a worldwide scale, at least the likes of the UK have their stunning vaccination rollout to stay positive. Us poor eejits here in Ireland will just have to "hold firm" and "do a little bit more" for the next few months I guess while our rollout trundles on at a snail's pace...

"The next few years are crucial".- Dr Tony

Locotastic

TonyMaloney wrote: »

You do as you see fit. Doesn't really matter.
You might lose some friends by acting like this, but that's on you.

I'm just saying that the "we'll open up once the elderly and vulnerable" is false.
And if you convince someone that is true, then you're setting them up for a horrible few months.

I would say that the exact same could be said about lockdown merchants.

I trust that most people are still capable of making their own minds up.

ArthurDayne

pm1977x wrote: »

This is getting very circular, as I said earlier, lockdowns are based on case numbers, not elderly and vulnerable case numbers, so unless this is the new metric it may not be business as usual unless certain measures are retained in order to keep case numbers down.

Though is it not the case that lockdowns are based on case numbers insofar as those case numbers precipitate this potential collapse of the healthcare system?

Of the roughly 13,000 people hospitalised due to Covid, over half were 65 or over. If you extend that to 55+, that is a total 9,000 people. So more or less 70% of all hospitalisations were 55 or over. If the vaccine is effective, which it appears to be, there seems to be very little rationale for saying that the country should not be all but fully reopened when the vaccine is rolled out to these age groups. Data from Israel appears to suggest that even the first dose is having a major effect.

Lockdown was never about abolishing Covid — it was about preventing the ability of Covid to overwhelm the health service and cause a tremendous level of death and suffering. The lower the capability of the virus to have that effect, the lower the restrictions should be. In any case, when young peoples older relatives and vulnerable friends are vaccinated (even first dose), the sense of moral duty which underpinned public support for the restrictions will begin to very rapidly dissipate because people won’t be as scared of passing covid on to relatives etc.

pm1977x

Locotastic wrote: »

They did indeed, some people just love lockdown! Or want a good way to hide their double chins it's one or the other.

I already have a beard to hide the double chin! :cool:

Locotastic

pm1977x wrote: »

I already have a beard to hide the double chin! :cool:

Me too

pm1977x

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Though is it not the case that lockdowns are based on case numbers insofar as those case numbers precipitate this potential collapse of the healthcare system?

Of the roughly 13,000 people hospitalised due to Covid, over half were 65 or over. If you extend that to 55+, that is a total 9,000 people. So more or less 70% of all hospitalisations were 55 or over. If the vaccine is effective, which it appears to be, there seems to be very little rationale for saying that the country should not be all but fully reopened at that stage.

Lockdown was never about abolishing Covid — it was about preventing the ability of Covid to overwhelm the health service and cause a tremendous level of death and suffering. The lower the capability of the virus to have that effect, the lower the restrictions should be.

Thanks for taking the time to lay out these figures, very interesting - I think the original thought in the article was that other countries who may be well behind 'the west' on vaccinations would be a danger, I'm guessing through international travel and dreaded new variants which might hit the 'non-vulnerable' and non-vaccinated in countries such as our own, therefore leading to more hospitalisations/pressure on healthcare.