Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Stormyteacup

gozunda wrote: »

Jaysus the sport of goal post shifting is getting more popular all the time in these parts.

Your query



Hence my answer



You can't simultaneously be admitted to a hospital and already be in the hospital at the same time unless you're a shape shifter or something I would imagine

If you catch Covid in hospital, you’re included in total hospital figures.

At some point HSPC stopped calling it ‘hospital admissions’ in their reports and it’s now more correctly ‘numbers hospitalised’.

We don’t actually know how many are being admitted for presenting with Covid symptoms.

Boggles

Nuts102 wrote: »

Is it fair to say that Covid has massively increased waiting lists and is destroying the economy for a disease that will kill less than 1% of the population with the majority being people near or above life expectancy

Is it fair to say that the economy is what provides money for the health services which you would imagine the funding is going to be greatly cut over the next few years

So we will have increased waiting lists and funding cuts which will cause deaths and for all ages and then factor in suicide

I have no idea but is it possible in the long run the countries reaction to Covid will cause more deaths than Covid itself

So basically if we had just ignored the pandemic the health service and economy would have been grand?

gozunda

the kelt wrote: »

This is the thing.
People seem to have this simplistic belief that moving outside the 5k is an issue leading to more infections etc when its not, its what people are doing whether they are within their 5k or not.
If a group of people want to go to a house party, visit another town, meet up with 20 or 30 others it doesnt matter if theres a 5k or 500m restriction, theyre going to do it anyway. Its not stopping them. In my local town i know of at least 15 different ways i can get into that town. If i wat to get into town to a house party, i can and will. People arent staying within 5k but also arent taking risks in general and those that do take risks and and partake in the behaviour thats actually an issue are doing so anyway so whats the point in fining those people who arent causing an issue for example. For example i bring my kids to the beach for a walk with the dog most weekends, outside my 5k but literally just us as a family on our own with no risk. On Paddys Day we done the same, went down early done our walk and when it got dark again i brought the kids for a drive to see the various landmarks lit up green.

Both times breaking the 5k restriction yet i know of at least 2 house parties that happened within my 5k.

All the 5k does is simply punish and hinder the vast majority of people who are in reality doing nothing to cause alarm. But of course the whole messaging these days seems to be ignore the big issues and publically shame and batter the small issues as was evidenced last week when the whole country was seeing the images of the huge traveller funerals and weddings yet who did our health experts call out for their behaviour??? Little old woman who visited her dying brother in a moment of weakness through grief.

And of course that was defended on here cos thats what we have become.

Simple answer you cant have one restriction for those who believe rightly or wrongly they're "doing no harm" and one for everyone else. And maybe you're fine Kelt - but there's absolutely no guarantee for the other 99 people or whatever who do the same

But no just because eejits are attending house "parties" whether in or outside 5km doesn't make it OK for others to also head off for a jolly.

And yes asking people not to travel and mix with others in other locations in order to help prevent the spread of covid does make sense with regard to keeping infection rates down.

How some don't understand this is beyond all comprehension tbf.

Pitch n Putt

Stormyteacup wrote: »

If you catch Covid in hospital, you’re included in total hospital figures.

At some point HSPC stopped calling it ‘hospital admissions’ in their reports and it’s now more correctly ‘numbers hospitalised’.

We don’t actually know how many are being admitted for presenting with Covid symptoms.

This exactly. Shove the case numbers up their hole. Tell us exactly how many people are admitted to our hospitals with covid complications....

Base our stupid lockdown strategy from these numbers and stop the worrying and destruction of this country over case numbers that mean zilch.... as most will recover at home after 14 days :rolleyes:

Backstreet Moyes

Boggles wrote: »

So basically if we had just ignored the pandemic the health service and economy would have been grand?

No if we relaxed restrictions like other countries when appropriate and had a measured approach we would be in a much better position in the long run

SnuggyBear

Graham wrote: »

Or people understand that increased movement = increased spread of the virus.

Again. Not rocket science.

It spreads by close contact not movement. Not rocket science.

Don't Chute!

Boggles wrote: »

How did your wife take the news that Sweden is not actually on the quarantine list, or did you tell her?

As someone already told you they would have to isolate for 5 days after coming back. My daughter is 7 years old and understandably doesn’t want to do that. Also I would have to isolate with them or stay somewhere else. That ok with you? Unless she is not going just to spite herself for some reason as you seem to be suggesting?

_Kaiser_

Graham wrote: »

Your problem is the people that are moving around and (deliberately) coming into contact with other people.

But for those, I doubt we'd still have the current level of restrictions.

Of course we would - the "blame game" would just move elsewhere .. maybe back to students?

The reality is that we have no clear metrics or checkpoints that determine the response - just a overreliance on case numbers (which mean increasingly very little as those actualy vulnerable have been vaccinated), an "advisory" group with tunnel-vision in terms of its "recommendations", and a weak Government and particularly head of that Government that are more terrified of being held to account for a decision that anything else.

We all know this. We've seen it for about 8/9 months now. Thankfully, FINALLY, public opinion and even the media coverage seems to be turning against the "response" and demand to reopen the country and economy is growing by the day.

That's what'll change restrictions, not case numbers or NPHET recommendations. We will finally start living with this situation rather than hiding away from it and pointing fingers at neighbours.

Boggles

Nuts102 wrote: »

No if we relaxed restrictions like other countries when appropriate and had a measured approach we would be in a much better position in the long run

Some change of tone, a minute ago it was a disease that only killed less than 1% of people, now you are speaking of appropriate restrictions.

Other countries are currently locking down.

We are opening up.

There has been a slight rise in infection rate on the back of that.

I'd call that measured, no?

Tying the vaccine roll out with the lifting of restrictions is sensible, is it not?

But if you have simpler more effective way, by all means tap it out.

Boggles

Don't Chute! wrote: »

As someone already told you they would have to isolate for 5 days after coming back. My daughter is 7 years old and understandably doesn’t want to do that. Also I would have to isolate with them or stay somewhere else. That ok with you? Unless she is not going just to spite herself for some reason as you seem to be suggesting?

So she chose not to go and wasn't forced to cancel like you claimed?

Fair enough.

gozunda

robbiezero wrote: »

Your quote....
My question....

Your original question

robbiezero wrote:

Are all that 50% admitted because of covid or caught it while on there for something else?

Which I answered btw and then you came up with another

robbiezero wrote: »

Ok, lets try without the pedantry.
How many (or percentage) people under 65 without underlying conditions are in hospital solely because of Covid?

robbiezero wrote:

Sorry if you can't see any relation between the two.

Ah yes both do indeed relate to people with covid in hospitals - after that Google is your friend...

Stormyteacup

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

This exactly. Shove the case numbers up their hole. Tell us exactly how many people are admitted to our hospitals with covid complications....

Base our stupid lockdown strategy from these numbers and stop the worrying and destruction of this country over case numbers that mean zilch.... as most will recover at home after 14 days :rolleyes:

Yes and it also skews the admission rate for those needing hospitalisation as a result of Covid complications.

I hope there’s numbers being furiously crunched behind the scenes, if hospital transmission rate is falling - with fewer cases in there, and with elderly and vulnerable people being vaccinated - then there must be an identifiable pattern or trend as to how many confirmed cases will need a hospital bed?

How long they want to sit and observe this trend, and ignore the damage and the debt is the problem.

Stormyteacup

Boggles wrote: »

Some change of tone, a minute ago it was a disease that only killed less than 1% of people, now you are speaking of appropriate restrictions.

Other countries are currently locking down.

We are opening up.

There has been a slight rise in infection rate on the back of that.

I'd call that measured, no?

Tying the vaccine roll out with the lifting of restrictions is sensible, is it not?

But if you have simpler more effective way, by all means tap it out.

Vaccine rollout is a major factor but more sensible would be tying easing of pressure on health system with lifting of restrictions.

Boggles

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Vaccine rollout is a major factor but more sensible would be tying easing of pressure on health system with lifting of restrictions.

That's what we are doing.

Kids back to school and the resumption of non covid health care.

They were the goals set out and they have been achieved.

Russman

the kelt wrote: »

Someone in dublin city centre can walk out as far as UCD and back and come in contact with more people in one morning within their 5k than i have in total this year whilst walking on the beach outside my 5k

I totally agree with you here. Likewise I live in the foothills of the Dublin mountains and could probably cycle 100km up there and meet less people than I would on a walk in Marlay Park which is maybe a km from me.
However government can't really legislate for every individual case can it ? If they wanted a distance restriction they had to pick a number, it could have been 2, it could have been 10, they picked 5.
People are on here saying everybody knows at this stage to keep their distance - if thats true, why the F are people not doing it ? I appreciate we can all slip up and be careless, but too many people (and not just to do with COVID either) think rules don't apply to them, or the natural reaction to a rule here isn't "how can I comply with that" its more often "how do I get round that".

I dunno, what's govt to do at the moment ? Going for harsh and strictly enforced rules isn't practical, going for light touch, trust the people, a la Sweden, wouldn't work here. They sort of went for a middle ground of harsh rules but not really policed at all, and hoping enough of the public buy into enough of the rules for long enough to hopefully let the vaccinations get a bit of a head of steam up.

SnuggyBear

Boggles wrote: »

That's what we are doing.

Kids back to school and the resumption of non covid health care.

They were the goals set out and they have been achieved.

All hail the government of Ireland!

namloc1980

Boggles wrote: »

That's what we are doing.

Kids back to school and the resumption of non covid health care.

They were the goals set out and they have been achieved.

Partially achieved. Most secondary school students are still at home.

JDxtra

Nuts102 wrote: »

Is it fair to say that Covid has massively increased waiting lists and is destroying the economy for a disease that will kill less than 1% of the population with the majority being people near or above life expectancy

Is it fair to say that the economy is what provides money for the health services which you would imagine the funding is going to be greatly cut over the next few years

So we will have increased waiting lists and funding cuts which will cause deaths and for all ages and then factor in suicide

I have no idea but is it possible in the long run the countries reaction to Covid will cause more deaths than Covid itself

On balance, I expect that our extended restrictions will cause more harm to the country (both financial and loss of life years). Politicians are just in full on cover their asses mode.... "NPHET told us to do it".

Penfailed

Sobit1964 wrote: »

I mean their excess deaths which was a negative for the first time yesterday. Their restrictions while having a roadmap out are still ridiculous. Boris and his bumbling sidekick Hancock are very lucky that their vaccine taskforce have done a good job - but as the feel good factor of people being vaccinated fades - they have questions to answer.

Not for the first time. It happened back in September too.

Whatsisname

Penfailed wrote: »

Not for the first time. It happened back in September too.

Except over 50% of the adult population didn't have atleast one dose of protection then.

dalyboy

SnuggyBear wrote: »

All hail the government of Ireland!

The new FF government slogan reads
“Very little done , not much more to come”

Penfailed

uli84 wrote: »

Is there a reason to be positive?

Yes. The vaccine is being rolled out and numbers are dropping.

ypres5

Penfailed wrote: »

Not for the first time. It happened back in September too.

you seem hellbent on downplaying the vaccine campaign in the uk. It's about the third post of yours I've seen knocking it. do you think the uks case and death numbers dropping in time with their vaccination programme ramping up are coincidental?

Boggles

namloc1980 wrote: »

Partially achieved. Most secondary school students are still at home.

But most kids are back.

The plan hasn't changed the rest were not due to go back until after Easter.

So again, goals set out, goals achieved.

The majority of children back in education or child care.

Non Covid health care restarted.

A resumption of visits in care facilities, which I think everyone will agree is brilliant.

Vaccine roll out continues and we are approaching Q2 which has always been flagged as when they will be ramped up.

Dempo1

Sick to the teeth of this ongoing comparisons with what other countries are doing, achieving, also this S***** talk about being number this, number that on various graphs comparing numbers to other EU countries. Not that long ago when NPHET telling us we were brilliant, how did that end? Now they are back to the same S****.

Each country is very very different and we can hardly stand tall with our health systems abject failure, most notably the Vaccine Roll out and I'm not just referring to supply, antiquated IT systems, minimal work being done on Sundays and the shocking ineptitude of both Senior HSE management and a hapless "I know best Health Minister"

We are were we are, Vacinnes will eventually reach every cohort, patience, patience, patience is required.

Stormyteacup

Boggles wrote: »

That's what we are doing.

Kids back to school and the resumption of non covid health care.

They were the goals set out and they have been achieved.

Yes important goals - but in what way were they tied in with vaccine rollout, health system or case numbers?

They were arbitrary goals, and based on impracticality of keeping schools shut and in the face of mounting waiting lists.

Riodej1578

Boggles wrote: »

But most kids are back.

The plan hasn't changed the rest were not due to go back until after Easter.

So again, goals set out, goals achieved.

The majority of children back in education or child care.

Non Covid health care restarted.

A resumption of visits in care facilities, which I think everyone will agree is brilliant.

Vaccine roll out continues and we are approaching Q2 which has always been flagged as when they will be ramped up.

Is this a post defending the gov/NPHET for how they have performed to date?

Klonker

Some scutter posted here this morning.

Me driving my car more than 5km somehow leads to more spread of the virus.

Simple question of what percentage of hospitalised cases weren't admitted because of covid (eg admitted for something else and tested positive in hospital or picked it up in hospital and tested positive) and the answer giving is less than 1% of total cases as if that's anyway related to what was asked or in any way relevant. Might as well say than 0.001% of the worlds population picked up the virus in Irish hospitals.

There's no point even engaging with these posters.

the kelt

Russman wrote: »

I totally agree with you here. Likewise I live in the foothills of the Dublin mountains and could probably cycle 100km up there and meet less people than I would on a walk in Marlay Park which is maybe a km from me.
However government can't really legislate for every individual case can it ? If they wanted a distance restriction they had to pick a number, it could have been 2, it could have been 10, they picked 5.
People are on here saying everybody knows at this stage to keep their distance - if thats true, why the F are people not doing it ? I appreciate we can all slip up and be careless, but too many people (and not just to do with COVID either) think rules don't apply to them, or the natural reaction to a rule here isn't "how can I comply with that" its more often "how do I get round that".

I dunno, what's govt to do at the moment ? Going for harsh and strictly enforced rules isn't practical, going for light touch, trust the people, a la Sweden, wouldn't work here. They sort of went for a middle ground of harsh rules but not really policed at all, and hoping enough of the public buy into enough of the rules for long enough to hopefully let the vaccinations get a bit of a head of steam up.

Yep,

This is my point, people are meeting up anyway, people are mixing anyway, its happening so whats the point.

What they could do but refuse to do is come down like a ton of bricks and those actually causing issues rather than those who are causing little harm.

Ill give ye an example, went into my local town last saturday, stopped by the guards, no issues was getting the shopping etc.

In town i drive along by the river and i see a crowd of about 20 young fellas and young ones sitting together by the river, no social distancing, probably drinking (couldnt say for definite)

Done my shopping, drove past going home and again theyre still there. Couple of hours later i was talking to a buddy of mine who was in town later that evening and told me yep, he was stopped etc and again was giving out about the group by the river by his estimation had grown.

So the Guards are sitting on a road outside of town being lied to for a few hours meanwhile its party central in town with not a guard to be seen because theyre out trying to implement a pointless restriction no one is adhering to anyway!! So whats the biggest issue here?

A friend of mine is a guard and told me theyre being hammered in regards to the likes of the 5k restriction and being seen to do it when all other issues are simply being ignored. Raised the issue joking with him about what happened in town (not his area btw, was just slagging him) and he said yep its happening everywhere, as he put it himself "its like standing there guarding the city walls whilst the city burns behind ye"

Boggles

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Yes important goals - but in what way were they tied in with vaccine rollout, health system or case numbers?

They were arbitrary goals, and based on impracticality of keeping schools shut and in the face of mounting waiting lists.

Do you think if we were still admitting 100-150 a day into hospitals that sending 700,000 indoors kids plus staff and all the associated outside contacts that would generate would have happened?

Do you think non covid health would have resumed if there was 200 odd people in ICU?

Do you think visitation to care homes would have went ahead if their was no vaccine program for that cohort.

None of those arbitrary, they all measured they are all tied in.