Northern Ireland and the IRA

CrazyFather1 · 21-02-2021 11:46pm

maccored wrote: »

I think your logic is skewed. The reason for the IRA was forced upon them by the loyalist/Army/UDR/UDA elements. I dont know of anyone personally who I grew up with who felt the IRA and SF had forced themselves upon the community. In fact it was SF acting as a community reporting centre and the ira as a police force than many ended up relying on as the government funded police couldnt and didnt care. I really dont think you are getting that into your head.

Also - Im not going to be bothered tit for tat posting about it either. If you dont understand my position on it, fair enough. Im not going to be bothered trying to convince you.

its called a discussion, the whole point of boards. You don't have to "win". You do realise that?
Seems a few people forget that all the time on here.

maccored · 21-02-2021 11:51pm

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

its called a discussion, the whole point of boards. You don't have to "win". You do realise that?
Seems a few people forget that all the time on here.

who mentioned winning? You keep trying to tell me that catholics didnt need or want the IRA. As I said already, NOONE would have chosen violence, but it was forced upon a section of the community. You push people and try to control them, give one community a better standard of living and better chances than the other and you WILL GET violence. Thats what happened. Your idea that no-one supported the IRA is pure and utter bollocks because if people did not support the IRA (support again that people felt they had to give as the treatment they were receiving was **** from the government and loyalists) then they simply would have all been handed over to the authorities. Instead people hid them - not because they were forced to (the IRA were recruited from the same pool of people) but because people did not want to hand them over to what they classed as a government who didnt care.

You arent getting that, so Im not going to bother my arse 'debating' with you on it.

Speedline · 22-02-2021 12:01am

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

They weren't though.

Tell that to my sister in laws mother. Her and her family landed in Dublin with nothing but the clothes on their backs after being burnt out of their Belfast home.

Junkyard Tom · 22-02-2021 12:12am

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

What proportion of NI catholics were beaten, shot, or burnt out of their homes, then on your figures ?

Many fewer than might have had Republicans not got hold of weapons.

Natterjack from Kerry · 22-02-2021 12:15am

maccored wrote: »

As I said already, NOONE would have chosen violence, but it was forced upon a section of the community.

Ah, yes, the 'but she made me beat her your honour'.

UDAWINNER · 22-02-2021 12:25am

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Ah, yes, the 'but she made me beat her your honour'.

What would you have had Nationalists do that were getting burnt out of their houses, beaten and murdered by loyalists and stateforces, sit there quietly ffs

UDAWINNER · 22-02-2021 12:27am

Speedline wrote: »

Tell that to my sister in laws mother. Her and her family landed in Dublin with nothing but the clothes on their backs after being burnt out of their Belfast home.

and many more that I know in cork since the 1970s. But this ok according to some on this thread, they were only catholics

blanch152 · 22-02-2021 12:41am

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Ah, yes, the 'but she made me beat her your honour'.

Yes, and when they stop beating their wife, they want praise, just like SF/IRA after the ceasefire.

Natterjack from Kerry · 22-02-2021 12:48am

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, and when they stop beating their wife, they want praise, just like SF/IRA after the ceasefire.

True that. I dont think they even see the irony when they go around extolling Adams and McGuinness and SF/IRA in general for their roles in stopping terrorism. They were the terrorism you gits !

22-02-2021 12:50am

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, and when they stop beating their wife, they want praise, just like SF/IRA after the ceasefire.

It was a war and SF were heroes for the most part.

blanch152 · 22-02-2021 1:22am

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

It was a war and SF were heroes for the most part.

They were heroes in their own imagination, and in the imagination of their supporters.

Sunny Disposition · 22-02-2021 1:29am

There were legitimate grievances and opposition from the Unionist side to protests about them. But my point is that if the effort that went into the IRA went into civil disobedience they’d have improved at least as quickly with less bloodshed. There’d probably still have been some, but not nearly as much. Even the IRA must know the campaign didn’t succeed and the concessions could have been won peacefully, if there had been a strong campaign over a 30 year period.

Yurt2 · 22-02-2021 1:31am

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

There were legitimate grievances and opposition from the Unionist side to protests about them. But my point is that if the effort that went into the IRA went into civil disobedience they’d have improved at least as quickly with less bloodshed. There’d probably still have been some, but not nearly as much. Even the IRA must know the campaign didn’t succeed and the concessions could have been won peacefully, if there had been a strong campaign over a 30 year period.

Now we're in the realm of complete speculation.

maccored · 22-02-2021 9:44am

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Ah, yes, the 'but she made me beat her your honour'.

That has to be the silliest, most unrelated reply yet.

maccored · 22-02-2021 9:45am

blanch152 wrote: »

They were heroes in their own imagination, and in the imagination of their supporters.

Aye, sure you the SF and IRA expert going by how much you discuss them.

maccored · 22-02-2021 9:47am

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

There were legitimate grievances and opposition from the Unionist side to protests about them. But my point is that if the effort that went into the IRA went into civil disobedience they’d have improved at least as quickly with less bloodshed. There’d probably still have been some, but not nearly as much. Even the IRA must know the campaign didn’t succeed and the concessions could have been won peacefully, if there had been a strong campaign over a 30 year period.

It all started with civil disobedience. The loyalists and security forces beat them off the street

steddyeddy · 22-02-2021 10:08am

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

There were legitimate grievances and opposition from the Unionist side to protests about them. But my point is that if the effort that went into the IRA went into civil disobedience they’d have improved at least as quickly with less bloodshed. There’d probably still have been some, but not nearly as much. Even the IRA must know the campaign didn’t succeed and the concessions could have been won peacefully, if there had been a strong campaign over a 30 year period.

Civil disobedience started with the marches. These were eventually banned so they marched anyway. That was civil disobedience. For this they were beaten by the RUC, the orange order and even the army. This progressed towards massacres such as bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy.

Putting the moral question about the IRA aside I can say with certainty that violence was always going to happen.

James Brown · 22-02-2021 3:18pm

blanch152 wrote: »

You are correct here, Sinn Fein are no choirboys, but there is a wider point that you are missing. Given that they weren't choirboys, the time is right for them, like all gunslingers, to retire from the stage when the fight is over and disappear. Take their poisonous background with them and disappear from Irish life.

As you don't seem to read history or follow politics, you should know we had a Good Friday Agreement and many of the people you speak of committed to peace and the pursuance of political democratic solutions. TBF to you, you might be caught up in the bitter PR and spin of the FF/FG still annoyed they had to team up. Pay them no heed. These people have no ethics or morals. They will use the victims and families for political gain while looking for pats on the back for their role in the GFA peace process even though they pick and choose when to recognise or respect it based on political point scoring rather than addressing their own short comings and poor policy which has seen record breaking crises year on year.

CrazyFather1 · 22-02-2021 3:20pm

James Brown wrote: »

As you don't seem to read history or follow politics, you should know we had a Good Friday Agreement and many of the people you speak of committed to peace and the pursuance of political democratic solutions. TBF to you, you might be caught up in the bitter PR and spin of the FF/FG still annoyed they had to team up. Pay them no heed. These people have no ethics or morals. They will use the victims and families for political gain while looking for pats on the back for their role in the GFA peace process even though they pick and choose when to recognise or respect it based on political point scoring rather than addressing their own short comings and poor policy which has seen record breaking crises year on year.

Shouting "Up da 'Ra"
Tweets about killing in the North
etc etc

Nothing to do with FF/FG. Can't always point the finger at those parties

maccored · 22-02-2021 3:54pm

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Shouting "Up da 'Ra"
Tweets about killing in the North
etc etc

Nothing to do with FF/FG. Can't always point the finger at those parties

shouting up the ra is a pretty stupid thing to do - I totally agree there. Tweets about killing in the north? Stanley was being quite factual. theres marches every July 12th in the north in case you've never seen them, celebrating mass murder. If one can do it, then so can the other

maccored · 22-02-2021 3:57pm

James Brown wrote: »

As you don't seem to read history or follow politics, you should know we had a Good Friday Agreement and many of the people you speak of committed to peace and the pursuance of political democratic solutions. TBF to you, you might be caught up in the bitter PR and spin of the FF/FG still annoyed they had to team up. Pay them no heed. These people have no ethics or morals. They will use the victims and families for political gain while looking for pats on the back for their role in the GFA peace process even though they pick and choose when to recognise or respect it based on political point scoring rather than addressing their own short comings and poor policy which has seen record breaking crises year on year.

theres plenty on this forum who like to high horse about things they have no notion of. Keeps them amused I suppose til schools are open again.

blanch152 · 22-02-2021 4:24pm

James Brown wrote: »

As you don't seem to read history or follow politics, you should know we had a Good Friday Agreement and many of the people you speak of committed to peace and the pursuance of political democratic solutions. TBF to you, you might be caught up in the bitter PR and spin of the FF/FG still annoyed they had to team up. Pay them no heed. These people have no ethics or morals. They will use the victims and families for political gain while looking for pats on the back for their role in the GFA peace process even though they pick and choose when to recognise or respect it based on political point scoring rather than addressing their own short comings and poor policy which has seen record breaking crises year on year.

You bring FF/FG into every single thread about the North/SF/IRA. It is boring and tedious.

maccored · 22-02-2021 4:31pm

blanch152 wrote: »

You bring FF/FG into every single thread about the North/SF/IRA. It is boring and tedious.

maybe thats because the usual posters spin the same bull**** about the north, SF or the IRA that those parties do

Natterjack from Kerry · 22-02-2021 8:02pm

blanch152 wrote: »

You bring FF/FG into every single thread about the North/SF/IRA. It is boring and tedious.

SF/IRA having no identity other than the rather repulsive obsession with a UI, murder, and terrorism, SF supporters only understand themselves in relation to other parties. They generally dont want to get involved in discussion about their support for murder and terrorism, so end up back with more to say about FF or FG than about SF. The GFA removed much of their identity and purpose. Leaving a shell of a party in search of a purpose.

maccored · 22-02-2021 8:17pm

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

SF/IRA having no identity other than the rather repulsive obsession with a UI, murder, and terrorism, SF supporters only understand themselves in relation to other parties. They generally dont want to get involved in discussion about their support for murder and terrorism, so end up back with more to say about FF or FG than about SF. The GFA removed much of their identity and purpose. Leaving a shell of a party in search of a purpose.

your arms not tired from all that winding?

James Brown · 22-02-2021 8:22pm

blanch152 wrote: »

You bring FF/FG into every single thread about the North/SF/IRA. It is boring and tedious.

Aren't every single one of these threads about trying to make Sinn Fein look worse than Fine Gael and Fianna Fail to dodge the issues of the day? Why else are you here, public service?

JimCore · 22-02-2021 8:25pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Lot of threads about the North going on.
Like most people here I well remember the Troubles, was in London for some, Belfast for a good bit less and the South for the majority.
One thing I often wonder about is what else could have been done. The IRA campaign was appalling, simply awful.But undoubtedly conditions were unacceptable and intolerable for Catholics. What I often wonder is what else could have been done, would a massive campaign of civil disobedience have been effective? I think it would have and would have left the North in a better place with a UI far more likely.

are you joking?

Gatling · 22-02-2021 8:37pm

James Brown wrote: »

Aren't every single one of these threads about trying to make Sinn Fein look worse than

They can't be made look worse no matter what sfers repeatedly post ,

The sf achievements for the 100 year's

( Come back in another 100 years we might have something for the list )

maccored · 22-02-2021 8:41pm

Gatling wrote: »

They can't be made look worse no matter what sfers repeatedly post ,

The sf achievements for the 100 year's

( Come back in another 100 years we might have something for the list )

whatever ye's are doing, keep it up. SF are only getting stronger on the back of it

James Brown · 22-02-2021 8:41pm

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

SF/IRA having no identity other than the rather repulsive obsession with a UI, murder, and terrorism, SF supporters only understand themselves in relation to other parties. They generally dont want to get involved in discussion about their support for murder and terrorism, so end up back with more to say about FF or FG than about SF. The GFA removed much of their identity and purpose. Leaving a shell of a party in search of a purpose.

Give over. FF/FG use IRA, UI, murder, and terrorism to avoid discussing present day governmental issues. When every conversation goes to that I personally get bored listening to it.
Signing up to the GFA was a choice. You seem to feel the GFA was something that just happened to the IRA and Sinn Fein. Them signing up to the GFA robbed FF/FG of excuses, which is why they need dip into history anytime SF criticise them.

Northern Ireland and the IRA

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