Dublin City Council obstructing housing through mindless height limits?

spakman

vladmydad wrote: »

RTE had a piece on the 6 o’clock news about the “negative” effect of “high rise”. They reported from the Bolands Mill development. They featured residents from those small ridiculously placed house’s behind it. The occupants complained about lack of sunlight and construction noise. They live in the center of a Capital City for Christ sakes. RTE kept showing the development from ground angles looking upward, to give the appearance of greater height. They’re barely 15 stories. God help us.

Those houses were there first though.
They only look "ridiculously placed" because of what has been built around them.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

So after what, eight years of left-wing majority on Dublin City Council, you can point to fu@k all as an achievement? And that maybe they blocked something sometime.

If anything sums up the toxic nature of left-wing idiotic politicians, the last eight years on Dublin City Council is a fantastic example.

I believe I asked questions. In the post you quoted.

Which councilors?
They give reasons when they vote against/block.
Who introduced leasing apartments for 25 years? Who favours assisting build to rent apartments and then becomes a customer? It's no leftist conspiracy group.

You are spinning yarns. You never responded to my query;

blanch152 wrote: »

The left-wing opposition - SF, SD, Labour, I4C, PBP and left-wing independents - have a majority on Dublin City Council. They are anti-development, anti-housing and anti-heights. They also believe that preventing housing development in the city will reflect badly on the government rather than on the Council. As a result, they are putting their own short-term political interests ahead of the interests of the people of the city.

It is a complete disgrace the way that they are behaving.

You believe a conspiracy theory that Lab/SF/PBP/SD/indies all vote together on housing issues to spite FF/FG. That's pretty nutty IMO.
The alternative is more logical; FF/FG push forward ****e policies. We've over a decade of record breaking crises to support that.

Montage of Feck

It's official Ireland policy to build low, rte did a moany piece on the news last night. Apparently the locals aren't getting enough sun in inner city Dublin.

blanch152

James Brown wrote: »

I believe I asked questions. In the post you quoted.

Which councilors?
They give reasons when they vote against/block.
Who introduced leasing apartments for 25 years? Who favours assisting build to rent apartments and then becomes a customer? It's no leftist conspiracy group.

You are spinning yarns. You never responded to my query;




You believe a conspiracy theory that Lab/SF/PBP/SD/indies all vote together on housing issues to spite FF/FG. That's pretty nutty IMO.
The alternative is more logical; FF/FG push forward ****e policies. We've over a decade of record breaking crises to support that.

Let me, in a long diatribe of a post, you have pointed to the following significant achievements on housing of the left-wing majority Dublin City Council over the last eight years.........



Eh.........


They objected to something.......


............



Nothing?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Let me, in a long diatribe of a post, you have pointed to the following significant achievements on housing of the left-wing majority Dublin City Council over the last eight years.........



Eh.........


They objected to something.......


............



Nothing?

I asked you to back up your claim every councilor of every stripe from every party and individual independents, vote to block housing only to spite FF/FG.

In short I don't believe you and you've given no proof to support your outlandish conspiracy theory.

There are more FG or FF on most councils. We know they work in tandem.
Good works in blocking not fit for purpose money making 'for our own' projects IMO.

blanch152

James Brown wrote: »

I asked you to back up your claim every councilor of every stripe from every party and individual independents, vote to block housing only to spite FF/FG.

In short I don't believe you and you've given no proof to support your outlandish conspiracy theory.

There are more FG or FF on most councils. We know they work in tandem.
Good works in blocking not fit for purpose money making 'for our own' projects IMO.

The main substance of my claim is that the left-wing majority Dublin City Council have done little or nothing over the last eight years to improve the housing situation, and by their objections, have hindered solutions.

Nothing, the sum total of nothing, is what SF and the rest have contributed.

Bubbaclaus

DCC are just insufferable with this kind of stuff. The only reason that development should be refused would be because it isn't tall and ambitious enough for the location.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

The main substance of my claim is that the left-wing majority Dublin City Council have done little or nothing over the last eight years to improve the housing situation, and by their objections, have hindered solutions.

Nothing, the sum total of nothing, is what SF and the rest have contributed.

That's where you are attempting to move it but this is you:

They also believe that preventing housing development in the city will reflect badly on the government rather than on the Council. As a result, they are putting their own short-term political interests ahead of the interests of the people of the city.

It is a complete disgrace the way that they are behaving.

You claim every councilor from all parties, including independents are voting on housing together to make FF/FG look bad with no regard for the public. That's a spicy meatball of a conspiracy theory.

Eight years to improve a situation created and brought beyond crises by FF/FG. Why would anyone approve anything from either of those two?
They've hindered more bad policy from FF/FG.

James Brown

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

DCC are just insufferable with this kind of stuff. The only reason that development should be refused would be because it isn't tall and ambitious enough for the location.

More FG'ers on it than any other party.
Stands to reason if the FF/FG government aren't responsible, why should FF/FG councilors? :rolleyes:
So you agree. It's not sufficient/fit for needs and they blocked it.
'Something is better than nothing' is poor planning IMO.

Bubbaclaus

James Brown wrote: »

More FG'ers on it than any other party.
Stands to reason if the FF/FG government aren't responsible, why should FF/FG councilors? :rolleyes:
So you agree. It's not sufficient/fit for needs and they blocked it.
'Something is better than nothing' is poor planning IMO.

Not sure what political point scoring you are trying to make here with that response. I said DCC are insufferable, didn't make any mention of the make up of it, or care for that matter. If it were up to me they would be stripped of any power to have any say in planning.

blanch152

James Brown wrote: »

More FG'ers on it than any other party.
Stands to reason if the FF/FG government aren't responsible, why should FF/FG councilors? :rolleyes:
So you agree. It's not sufficient/fit for needs and they blocked it.
'Something is better than nothing' is poor planning IMO.

More SF TDs in the Dail than any other party, yet they are not in government. Should we blame SF for all the failures of the Dail given that they have more TDs than anyone else?

Your post is devoid of logic.

blanch152

James Brown wrote: »

That's where you are attempting to move it but this is you:



You claim every councilor from all parties, including independents are voting on housing together to make FF/FG look bad with no regard for the public. That's a spicy meatball of a conspiracy theory.

Eight years to improve a situation created and brought beyond crises by FF/FG. Why would anyone approve anything from either of those two?
They've hindered more bad policy from FF/FG.

Go back to my first post on this thread and the initial point still stands

blanch152 wrote: »

The left-wing opposition - SF, SD, Labour, I4C, PBP and left-wing independents - have a majority on Dublin City Council. They are anti-development, anti-housing and anti-heights. They also believe that preventing housing development in the city will reflect badly on the government rather than on the Council. As a result, they are putting their own short-term political interests ahead of the interests of the people of the city.

It is a complete disgrace the way that they are behaving.

As does my second post:

blanch152 wrote: »

The record of the Council over the last decade when under SF/left-wing control speaks for itself. No spin, no dishonesty.

Rather than defend the Council's record by pointing to their successes in housing (there aren't any), you resort to attacking the poster.

If you want to prove me wrong, all you have to do is set out the great achievements of the left-wing-led Dublin City Council.

James Brown

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Not sure what political point scoring you are trying to make here with that response. I said DCC are insufferable, didn't make any mention of the make up of it, or care for that matter. If it were up to me they would be stripped of any power to have any say in planning.

Trying to push back on some.
I spoke on the balls up housing is and suggested some ideas. I was met with a left wing council conspiracy.
My apologies if you weren't following.
The councils have not been great but I would not let the gombeens in FF/FG rinse the tax payer to line their pals pockets are further.
This is me blaming FF/FG for years of poor FF/FG housing policing causing record breaking societal crises. Call it point scoring if you like.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Go back to my first post on this thread and the initial point still stands



As does my second post:



If you want to prove me wrong, all you have to do is set out the great achievements of the left-wing-led Dublin City Council.

You are wrong.
There. I just gave as much proof to disprove your claim as you did to make it.

The most recent block I've read about was FF/FG wanting to build apartments most of the others thought weren't fit for purpose. I don't see an issue.
Rather than accept that you created a conspiracy theory that they only vote as they do to make FF/FG look bad. FF/FG do a damn fine job of it themselves.
I've no interest in defending any council. They all carry some level of responsibility I'd imagine.

ILoveYourVibes

Building up is the way to go.

They say we are an underpopulated country. But people dont want to live ANYWHERE in the country they NEED to live close to where they work.

We need apartments big enough for families. Two story apartments like every other major city.

In fact sky scrapers can be beautiful if done right.

We could be hong kong. Or what is good about hong kong.

Ah heor
People losing their sh1t over the lack of skyscrapers...
City Council has a democratic mandate via their LDP to do what they're doing


2018 Urban Development & Building Height Guidelines arent carte blanch to throw up skyscrapers.

4/6 story is recommended in suburban areas, taller in inner city areas- canal ring of Dublin in appropriate locations where the context allows, having regard to the need to achieve very high quality architectural, urban design and public realm outcomes, with historic locations more sensitive.

IMO they should be clustered (like la Defense in Paris below), rather than shoved willy nilly and fcuk the locals.

Bubbaclaus

James Brown wrote: »

Trying to push back on some.
I spoke on the balls up housing is and suggested some ideas. I was met with a left wing council conspiracy.
My apologies if you weren't following.
The councils have not been great but I would not let the gombeens in FF/FG rinse the tax payer to line their pals pockets are further.
This is me blaming FF/FG for years of poor FF/FG housing policing causing record breaking societal crises. Call it point scoring if you like.

What conspiracy? My post made no such reference to any of the above. If you responded to the wrong poster then just say so, but you are currently making zero sense.

We need to build housing, build it high in the right locations and build it now. I couldn't care less who gets the credit for it.

blanch152

James Brown wrote: »

You are wrong.
There. I just gave as much proof to disprove your claim as you did to make it.

The most recent block I've read about was FF/FG wanting to build apartments most of the others thought weren't fit for purpose. I don't see an issue.
Rather than accept that you created a conspiracy theory that they only vote as they do to make FF/FG look bad. FF/FG do a damn fine job of it themselves.
I've no interest in defending any council. They all carry some level of responsibility I'd imagine.

So still no list of achievements for the left-wing ruled council.

James Brown

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

What conspiracy? My post made no such reference to any of the above. If you responded to the wrong poster then just say so, but you are currently making zero sense.

We need to build housing, build it high in the right locations and build it now. I couldn't care less who gets the credit for it.

Look I can't help it if you are having trouble following a discussion you chimed in on.
Blanch believes every councilor is in cahoots to make FF/FG look bad with no regard for the public they serve.
If you read any post besides your own you'd see that.
You came into the discussion. It's on you if you aren't paying attention.
Nowhere did I claim you thought anything other than what you posted.

blanch152 wrote: »

So still no list of achievements for the left-wing ruled council.

You believe every councillor in the FG led councils votes against FF/FG on housing to make FF/FG look bad despite the needs of the public. That's a pretty nutty conspiracy theory, (Bubs, talking to Blanch here).

I've no interest is feeding your deflective off roads. I'm sure they do lots of stuff to keep their respective areas functioning and have input on many things except ones held behind closed doors by the Greens and such, (Bubs, talking to Blanch here).

Bubbaclaus

James Brown wrote: »

Look I can't help it if you are having trouble following a discussion you chimed in on.
Blanch believes every councilor is in cahoots to make FF/FG look bad with no regard for the public they serve.
If you read any post besides your own you'd see that.
You came into the discussion. It's on you if you aren't paying attention.
Nowhere did I claim you thought anything other than what you posted.



You believe every councillor in the FG led councils votes against FF/FG on housing to make FF/FG look bad despite the needs of the public. That's a pretty nutty conspiracy theory, (Bubs, talking to Blanch here).

I've no interest is feeding your deflective off roads. I'm sure they do lots of stuff to keep their respective areas function and have input on many things except ones held behind closed doors by the Greens and such, (Bubs, talking to Blanch here).

Sorry, what discussion do you think I chimed in on? I made a standalone post of my own, in response to nobody, which you chose to respond to.

You seem very confused here. I have nothing to do with or remotely care about the back and forth you are having with Blanch.

James Brown

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Sorry, what discussion do you think I chimed in on? I made a standalone post of my own, in response to nobody, which you chose to respond to.

You seem very confused here. I have nothing to do with or remotely care about the back and forth you are having with Blanch.

Fair enough.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

More SF TDs in the Dail than any other party, yet they are not in government. Should we blame SF for all the failures of the Dail given that they have more TDs than anyone else?

Your post is devoid of logic.

Logic? The party with the most seats has the most say in the Dail? Is that the rule :rolleyes:

Do you know how councils work? Do you think Local Government operates the same? Gas.

blanch152

James Brown wrote: »

Logic? The party with the most seats has the most say in the Dail? Is that the rule :rolleyes:

Do you know how councils work? Do you think Local Government operates the same? Gas.

This is good, explain to me how local government works.

In particular, explain to me how FF and FG can vote down a united left-wing attempt to block high-rise on Dublin City Council?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

This is good, explain to me how local government works.

In particular, explain to me how FF and FG can vote down a united left-wing attempt to block high-rise on Dublin City Council?

This all depends on your conspiracy theory being true. So its an exercise in fantasy.
If bad policy got blocked, great.

On one thread you laugh at the idea of anyone working with Sinn Fein. On another every party plus all indies working with them is the basis of a fantasy to deflect for bad housing policy getting voted down.

blanch152

James Brown wrote: »

This all depends on your conspiracy theory being true. So its an exercise in fantasy.
If bad policy got blocked, great.

On one thread you laugh at the idea of anyone working with Sinn Fein. On another every party plus all indies working with them is the basis of a fantasy to deflect for bad housing policy getting voted down.

So we had an exchange of posts where you claim that I don't know how local government works but that you do. I politely ask you to explain it to me, and you respond with a personal attack rather than actually explaining anything.

Would you care to revisit this?

James Brown wrote: »

Logic? The party with the most seats has the most say in the Dail? Is that the rule :rolleyes:

Do you know how councils work? Do you think Local Government operates the same? Gas.

blanch152 wrote: »

This is good, explain to me how local government works.

In particular, explain to me how FF and FG can vote down a united left-wing attempt to block high-rise on Dublin City Council?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

So we had an exchange of posts where you claim that I don't know how local government works but that you do.

Lie.

James Brown wrote: »

Logic? The party with the most seats has the most say in the Dail? Is that the rule :rolleyes:

Do you know how councils work? Do you think Local Government operates the same? Gas.

blanch152 wrote: »

I politely ask you to explain it to me, and you respond with a personal attack rather than actually explaining anything.

Lie.

blanch152 wrote: »

This is good, explain to me how local government works.

In particular, explain to me how FF and FG can vote down a united left-wing attempt to block high-rise on Dublin City Council?

James Brown wrote: »

This all depends on your conspiracy theory being true. So its an exercise in fantasy.
If bad policy got blocked, great.

On one thread you laugh at the idea of anyone working with Sinn Fein. On another every party plus all indies working with them is the basis of a fantasy to deflect for bad housing policy getting voted down.

blanch152 wrote: »

Would you care to revisit this?

Yes indeed.
You claimed every party plus independents vote against FF/FG just to make FF/FG look bad. That's a conspiracy theory.
The more logical take would be certain councilors didn't like the proposal so voted it down.
More poor FF/FG policy is not the way to turn around the FF/FG crises.

Necro

Mod:

blanch152 and James Brown - if you can't remain to civil to each other just put each other on ignore. Nobody wants to see your petty back and forth arguments on every single thread.

OneEightSeven

The Indo did an article about high rise at Upper Mayor Street and the effect it's had on residents in the area. They said the city council were no help.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/our-sunny-homes-are-now-dull-and-dark-local-residents-despair-as-peaceful-cul-de-sac-is-now-in-shadow-of-apartments-40127697.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=seeding&fbclid=IwAR0S1127VkEYdUoZxvm2sWsl-lC2oPfDs90mGqcFlxyq0Fkml0fWpi6mHyA

James Brown

They put an apartment block literally beside a 2 bedroom house off Cork street. No ground between them save the garden of the house.
A series of apartments with a spar every few hundred yards is poor planning. Thats pretty much Cork Street.

Del2005

James Brown wrote: »

They put an apartment block literally beside a 2 bedroom house off Cork street. No ground between them save the garden of the house.
A series of apartments with a spar every few hundred yards is poor planning. Thats pretty much Cork Street.

The article should be why are we keeping 2 bedroom houses in a city with a massive housing crisis? Building houses hundreds of km out into the countryside is better than building apartments high in the city using the logic of the paper and the city councillors. Protect a skyline we don't have by destroying the countryside seems to be the solution to our housing problem.