Will the Rovers ever Return? Your pub megathread, Part 2 - threadbans in OP

lukas8888

If they decide to implement the law as it stands regarding drinking outdoors the guards will end up having to close 90% of the pubs.Apart fom the unlicensed footpaths the majority of the rear beer gardens are also unlicensed as in nearly all cases the area covered by the license is almost always the physical building only.

hynesie08

PTH2009 wrote: »

As said earlier this could of been avoided if they reopened Indoors but no its not safe but it is way safer than some poor souls been run down by a vehicle etc

If you're drinking in a pub that's putting tables in the middle of the road, then you can't claim it's a safe place

Coillte_Bhoy

ShooterSF wrote: »

It's either against the law or it isn't and gardai shouldn't be deciding which ones to enforce or not, at least in an ideal world. Also sounds like they just let the premises know so they can get it resolved or even petition to change the law.

:pac: Ya right, they do all the time especially re the licensing laws in norm al times

Tenzor07

PTH2009 wrote: »

As said earlier this could of been avoided if they reopened Indoors but no its not safe but it is way safer than some poor souls been run down by a vehicle etc

About two more weeks to the opening of Pubs(indoors) reckon they should just leave the Pub/restaurant owners alone and concentrate on preventing the sorts of melee you see every day in city centres...

beggars_bush

Its the gardai's job to enforce legislation and laws

Blame the councillors and city council for not voting to change laws

stephenjmcd

Posted in another thread earlier, 2 of my mates are Gardai in Dublin City centre. Asked them earlier were / would they be enforcing it and it was a resounding no.

Anyway both on shift tonight queried it with their sergeants and were told use your discretion. They both said they've more important things to be doing than going into pubs and checking their licence and floor plan, won't be doing it.

irishproduce

I think with the amount of boxing and scrapping that's going on around the cities recently and associated with outdoor cafe pub culture we've adopted, it was only a matter of time before the Guards did something.
Unfortunately though, rather than tackle the problem head on, they've gone around it again so as to effect the change they want (less boxing and scrapping) without having to tackle it.

Same as the traveller wedding in the marquee recently, rather than tackle the problem straight on (the travellers) they go around it by finding a weaker link. In that case it was the sports club that owned the pitch and the business who rented the marquee.
I don't know what the word to describe it is, but I know what it looks and feels like. Unfortunately.

ShooterSF

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

:pac: Ya right, they do all the time especially re the licensing laws in norm al times

I know I've been on the end of it. Getting threats for refusing to serve half pissed guards after closing time, about being raided after 1am the following Saturday and if anyone was still on the premises...
I'm not saying they do or don't choose I'm saying they shouldn't. Including this law. If they want to influence the shape of our society they should be in politics not law enforcement. Government makes laws, police enforce them.
Sorry its just one thing I really hate about this country

Boggles

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Yeah that isn't gonna happen.

Would assume it'll be sorted quickly. Clearly a few Gardai in Galway were bored over the weekend. Nothing of the like anywhere in Dublin anyway

I very much doubt it.

More than likely a "diligent" citizen reported it or some up the chain eager beaver discovered it.

Orders coming down from HQ in Dublin apparently.

MOH

beggars_bush wrote: »

Its the gardai's job to enforce legislation and laws

Be nice if they actually did that instead of trying to find new things to make a balls of enforcing.

stephenjmcd

Commissioner due to issue a directive this afternoon to all members that no pub or restaurant is to be penalised for serving in the newly created outdoor areas

Tenzor07

Some common sense at last, I hope they take a case against the Government and win:


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-asks-health-minister-to-explain-why-hotels-can-serve-people-indoors-while-other-restaurants-restricted-to-outdoor-dining-40562389.html

Allinall

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Some common sense at last, I hope they take a case against the Government and win:


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-asks-health-minister-to-explain-why-hotels-can-serve-people-indoors-while-other-restaurants-restricted-to-outdoor-dining-40562389.html

I would have thought it was fairly obvious.

You can only stay in an hotel for essential reasons, and you obviously have to eat.

I can't think of any essential reason to go for a meal in a restaurant.

Tenzor07

Allinall wrote: »

I can't think of any essential reason to go for a meal in a restaurant.

It's only essential to everyone who works at the restaurant trying to make a living, as well as people being able to go for a meal as they please... and there's no reason they shouldn't be allowed as a hotel guest would... whole point of the details in the link I posted..

Allinall

Tenzor07 wrote: »

It's only essential to everyone who works at the restaurant trying to make a living, as well as people being able to go for a meal as they please... and there's no reason they shouldn't be allowed as a hotel guest would... whole point of the details in the link I posted..

Covid restrictions over-ride that. It's why we have PUP and grants for businesses.

It's also why supermarkets were never closed. Deemed essential. Clothes shops and others closed. Deemed non-essential.

You can argue the case for essential / non-essential, but it is the reason hotel restaurants are open to guests, and ordinary restaurants are closed for indoor dining.

I'm surprised the judge had to ask.

Tenzor07

Allinall wrote: »

Covid restrictions over-ride that. It's why we have PUP and grants for businesses.
It's also why supermarkets were never closed. Deemed essential. Clothes shops and others closed. Deemed non-essential.
You can argue the case for essential / non-essential, but it is the reason hotel restaurants are open to guests, and ordinary restaurants are closed for indoor dining.
I'm surprised the judge had to ask.

Yea none of that holds any water now, Restaurants and hotel restaurants aren't any different in terms of catching Covid, so time to scrap the ridiculous rule:

Michael McDowell SC, appearing with Robinson Solicitors for the RAI and three businesses, said the statutory instrument had created a situation which was “ultra vires”, outside the powers of the minister.

He said this was because it lacked proportionality, the rationale for it was poor, and it was an unjustified interference with the property and economic rights of non-hotel restaurateurs.

Boggles

Very simple but rather unpalatable solution.

Close the hotels again.

Everyone loses.

Allinall

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Yea none of that holds any water now, Restaurants and hotel restaurants aren't any different in terms of catching Covid, so time to scrap the ridiculous rule:

That's just McDowell's opinion.

TheDoctor

Boggles wrote: »

Very simple but rather unpalatable solution.

Close the hotels again.

Everyone loses.

Or even easier, open them all.

Cut the ridiculous government overreach and nanny state.

Boggles

TheDoctor wrote: »

Or even easier, open them all.

Cut the ridiculous government overreach and nanny state.

Yeah, we should just ranted and raved at the pandemic that would have sorted it.

_________________________

During the brief hearing Mr McDowell also said non-hotel restaurants providing outdoor dining were being prohibited from providing indoor toilet facilities for customers.

“If you go to an outdoor restaurant and order a meal, all the patrons are prohibited from entering into the restaurant and using the sanitary facilities. This is a serious and completely irrational prohibition

No idea what is going on here, at no time has this happened to me personally.

TheDoctor

Boggles wrote: »

Yeah, we should just ranted and raved at the pandemic that would have sorted it.

Not sure who suggested ranting and raving but ok….

Boggles

TheDoctor wrote: »

Not sure who suggested ranting and raving but ok….

TheDoctor wrote: »

Cut the ridiculous government overreach and nanny state.

Class A ranting and raving.

I pointed out a potential over whelming negative if the ruling was to favor the RAI, Captain Contrarian McDowell won't give a flying fúck he doesn't work off a no win no fee basis.

TheDoctor

Boggles wrote: »

Class A ranting and raving.

I pointed out a potential over whelming negative if the ruling was to favor the RAI, Captain Contrarian McDowell won't give a flying fúck he doesn't work off a no win no fee basis.

Sensitive soul if 8 words is ranting and raving.

gipi

Allinall wrote: »

I would have thought it was fairly obvious.

You can only stay in an hotel for essential reasons, and you obviously have to eat.

I can't think of any essential reason to go for a meal in a restaurant.

Eh, you can stay in a hotel for any reason since June 2nd....

Boggles

TheDoctor wrote: »

Sensitive soul if 8 words is ranting and raving.

At no point did it offend me, I find it funny.

TheDoctor

Boggles wrote: »

At no point did it offend me, I find it funny.

Never asked if it offended you.

Was in stitches here though after your solution to the problem was close the hotels.

More covid delusions/hysteria.

Allinall

gipi wrote: »

Eh, you can stay in a hotel for any reason since June 2nd....

Ok. Didn’t realise that.

In that case, the restaurants have a good case.

Will be interesting to see the outcome.

Boggles

TheDoctor wrote: »

Was in stitches here though after your solution to the problem was close the hotels.

Ain't my solution, it's a potential negative for the future.

Think about it in reality, dispense with Nanny State hysteria.

TheDoctor

Boggles wrote: »

Ain't my solution, it's a potential negative for the future.

Think about it in reality, dispense with Nanny State hysteria.

I have.

And from a public health point of view you can’t justify having one closed and one open.

After all that’s the reason for all this.

That’s reality

Pintman Paddy Losty

Concerning trends with the Indian variant. Really can't see indoor dining returning as planned sadly.

Itssoeasy

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Concerning trends with the Indian variant. Really can't see indoor dining returning as planned sadly.

:rolleyes: based on what exactly ? I know it’s not going to happen but coronavirus and the donkey it rode in on need to **** off.

saabsaab

Itssoeasy wrote: »

:rolleyes: based on what exactly ? I know it’s not going to happen but coronavirus and the donkey it rode in on need to **** off.

It hasn't gone away. Some version of it likely to be around for good.

crooked cockney villain

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Concerning trends with the Indian variant. Really can't see indoor dining returning as planned sadly.

While this lad is on a wind up and hates pubs and socialising, I would sadly have to half concur. Tony is chomping at the chance to do it one more time. The fact that everybody who can die from it is now fully vaccinated and therefore are probably at as much risk of Covid death as flu death, or even less, doesn't matter to them. If the Indian variant is at 20% this week it seems likely it would be at circa 50% by the time the pubs are due. These wastes of space won't turn down the opportunity I feel. Whether Mehole has the balls to tell them to feck off who knows, particularly as two weeks from now we will have further proof from England that endemic rates of Indian variant mean absolutely feck all in terms of death and serious illness.

I'd seriously hope any further putting the breaks on leads to civil disobedience, and more.

saabsaab

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

While this lad is on a wind up and hates pubs and socialising, I would sadly have to half concur. Tony is chomping at the chance to do it one more time. The fact that everybody who can die from it is now fully vaccinated and therefore are probably at as much risk of Covid death as flu death, or even less, doesn't matter to them. If the Indian variant is at 20% this week it seems likely it would be at circa 50% by the time the pubs are due. These wastes of space won't turn down the opportunity I feel. Whether Mehole has the balls to tell them to feck off who knows, particularly as two weeks from now we will have further proof from England that endemic rates of Indian variant mean absolutely feck all in terms of death and serious illness.

I'd seriously hope any further putting the breaks on leads to civil disobedience, and more.

Who is winding up who?

crooked cockney villain

saabsaab wrote: »

Who is winding up who?

NPHET and the government. It became less about health and more about pushing us to the brink of insanity circa last July. It's a war.

Remember in April 2020, when the most optimistic predictions had a Covid vaccine at three years away, Simon Harris, then minister of health, said that pubs would never re open until after the vaccine would be rolled out?

That Harris was so blase, too bad lads, social life is suspended for the next three years, tells you all you need to know about these people.

crooked cockney villain

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

While this lad is on a wind up and hates pubs and socialising, I would sadly have to half concur. Tony is chomping at the chance to do it one more time. The fact that everybody who can die from it is now fully vaccinated and therefore are probably at as much risk of Covid death as flu death, or even less, doesn't matter to them. If the Indian variant is at 20% this week it seems likely it would be at circa 50% by the time the pubs are due. These wastes of space won't turn down the opportunity I feel. Whether Mehole has the balls to tell them to feck off who knows, particularly as two weeks from now we will have further proof from England that endemic rates of Indian variant mean absolutely feck all in terms of death and serious illness.

I'd seriously hope any further putting the breaks on leads to civil disobedience, and more.

That’s the biggest myth being peddled in this whole thing. The vaccine roll out has been a shambles of a mixture of luck and who you know.

ingo1984

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

That’s the biggest myth being peddled in this whole thing. The vaccine roll out has been a shambles of a mixture of luck and who you know.

I shed a tear this morning. Count my lucky stars for how fortunate I am. Must be a real struggle having to wake up each morning, and battle through each day with your level of intellect. Feel so blessed.

Tenzor07

Allinall wrote: »

That's just McDowell's opinion.

Allinall wrote: »

Ok. Didn’t realise that.

In that case, the restaurants have a good case.

Will be interesting to see the outcome.

Science it seems has been long since abandoned by NPHET, Holohan thinks he knows better than the rest of the world... No difference between an indoor hotel restaurant and a restaurant, either open both or keep both closed/outdoors only... From some of the marquee's i've seen online you may as well be indoors with the windows and doors open...

PommieBast

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

Remember in April 2020, when the most optimistic predictions had a Covid vaccine at three years away, Simon Harris, then minister of health, said that pubs would never re open until after the vaccine would be rolled out?

Since they are asking fully vaccinated people from the UK to take PCR tests before and after arriving in Ireland (a total of three if partially vaccinated), it is pretty clear they are sh!tscared of any actual opening up.

mackD

Went on a spontaneous night out with a friend Saturday night in Cork city around 8pm. We thought we’d surely find a table somewhere but after walking around every nook and cranny in the city centre for over an hour, not a chance!!
What was most frustrating were the pubs advertising themselves as “walk in only” who had a few empty tables that were clearly reserved..
I certainly won’t be going out again at weekends until this outdoor drinking mess is properly sorted and can actually cater for the demand.

Itssoeasy

I heard the word “sobering” mentioned on the wireless at lunch time. I wouldn’t be at all surprised as much as I hate to admit it, that indoors in pubs may not happen on July 5th. I’ve this awful feeling it won’t happen. I hope to Christ I’m wrong but just hearing the Taoiseach talk on the radio I’m not as bullish as I had been.

stephenjmcd

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I heard the word “sobering” mentioned on the wireless at lunch time. I wouldn’t be at all surprised as much as I hate to admit it, that indoors in pubs may not happen on July 5th. I’ve this awful feeling it won’t happen. I hope to Christ I’m wrong but just hearing the Taoiseach talk on the radio I’m not as bullish as I had been.

Yes sobering was mentioned for the countries finances in a presentation given to the 3 party leaders from Dept of finance last night

Coillte_Bhoy

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

NPHET and the government. It became less about health and more about pushing us to the brink of insanity circa last July. It's a war.

Remember in April 2020, when the most optimistic predictions had a Covid vaccine at three years away, Simon Harris, then minister of health, said that pubs would never re open until after the vaccine would be rolled out?

That Harris was so blase, too bad lads, social life is suspended for the next three years, tells you all you need to know about these people.

Except he didnt say that, but you know that don't you

emo72

The delta doesn't seem to be having knock on effects with hospital numbers? Why the pessimism? Everyone in ireland could catch it and so what? We've only one life, we're not coming back. Let's live it lads.

MOH

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Except he didnt say that, but hey keep peddling your lies if it makes you feel good and before a mod comes after me, maybe it should be up to that poster to provide a direct quote? No? Didnt think so, it's a blatant lie.

If you're going to accuse people of blatant lies, you might want to spend 15 seconds searching to ensure your accusation isn't itself a blatant lie.

That's about how long it took me to find this.

...April 20th, the day after Minister for Health Simon Harris suggested pubs might not fully reopen until after a vaccine is found.

Tenzor07

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I heard the word “sobering” mentioned on the wireless at lunch time. I wouldn’t be at all surprised as much as I hate to admit it, that indoors in pubs may not happen on July 5th. I’ve this awful feeling it won’t happen. I hope to Christ I’m wrong but just hearing the Taoiseach talk on the radio I’m not as bullish as I had been.

Ireland again will take it's pride of place in Europe as "Paddy Last" when it comes to indoor dining/drinking... seems that's all we excel at these days being the Slow Paddies..
They better keep the PUP at the full amount for another few months.. just hope a successful legal case can be taken against the state with massive payouts for business owners.

PTH2009

Is it this Thursday that there making the decision ?

Really really hope they do reopen indoors and don't cave into the pressure from NPHET/Dr Tony and keep them outdoors til Mid July or even mid August (after the bank holiday weekend)

The Delta Variant and the slow Vaccination programme in which a lot of younger people are still not vaccinated would be enough grounds to postpone

hynesie08

PTH2009 wrote: »

Is it this Thursday that there making the decision ?

Really really hope they do reopen indoors and don't cave into the pressure from NPHET/Dr Tony and keep them outdoors til Mid July or even mid August (after the bank holiday weekend)

The Delta Variant and the slow Vaccination programme in which a lot of younger people are still not vaccinated would be enough grounds to postpone

What pressure?

Tenzor07

PTH2009 wrote: »

Is it this Thursday that there making the decision ?Really really hope they do reopen indoors and don't cave into the pressure from NPHET/Dr Tony and keep them outdoors til Mid July or even mid August (after the bank holiday weekend)The Delta Variant and the slow Vaccination programme in which a lot of younger people are still not vaccinated would be enough grounds to postpone

39 people "with" Covid in irish hospitals, not even 1 per public hospital in the country, 92,000 people working in the Pub trade.... it's time they take to the streets and protest if Holohan tries to keep them all out of their jobs...

Irish people it seems however love the restrictions and want more though...:mad:

Itssoeasy

PTH2009 wrote: »

Is it this Thursday that there making the decision ?

Really really hope they do reopen indoors and don't cave into the pressure from NPHET/Dr Tony and keep them outdoors til Mid July or even mid August (after the bank holiday weekend)

The Delta Variant and the slow Vaccination programme in which a lot of younger people are still not vaccinated would be enough grounds to postpone

No next Thursday. It’s a wait and see game kind of. It’s why I’ve been not bothering about when pubs were supposed to be opening because like everything, I won’t believe it until it happens.