How would you rate the governments performance tackling Covid so far

newcavanman

chrisbonnie wrote: »

As crap and shambolic as they've been (FF/FG)

The thing that's even worse is, what's the alternative to them??

We genuinely don't have any other options.

Sinn fein is basically a bunch of no mark mouth pieces that have watched "in the name of the father" one too many times, that can't do anything positive in Northern Ireland, where they actually are in government. So how anyone expects them to do anything down here, I'll never know.

Labour barely exist, the social Democrats the same, greens, the same.

We literally have no other options, and those snobby, disconnected flutes from FF/FG, know that and basically have free reign to balls everything up because there's nobody there to carry the can.

I think you are bang on the money here. I need to be honest here, i detest the Shinners and what they stand for , but this lot are so incompetent, im actually willing to consider the possibility of ofa shinner government. I used to worry about the Shinners destroying the economy but it looks like the current mob are reading from the same script. I thought the mid 1980s recession was bad, but what comes later this year and next will be a bloodbath

Wanderer78

newcavanman wrote:

I think you are bang on the money here. I need to be honest here, i detest the Shinners and what they stand for , but this lot are so incompetent, im actually willing to consider the possibility of ofa shinner government. I used to worry about the Shinners destroying the economy but it looks like the current mob are reading from the same script. I thought the mid 1980s recession was bad, but what comes later this year and next will be a bloodbath

It 'll be a bloodbath if we default to normal thinking, I.e. panic about deficits, austerity etc, so it's very likely to occur with these lads in government, so let's see what happens

Dempo1

Initially Leo's leadership seemed good albeit on reflection his initial decisions now seemed easy. Rolling on, it was clear he was astonishingly out of his depth. Mixed messaging and clear infighting was evident and a shocking lack of Emphaty was evident, especially from Leo.

Focus and priority moved to forming a new government, it would seem this was more about passing the book, passing a poison chalice as it where to FF, and like gusto, they grabbed it.

Then the fun a games truely commenced, speared head by Leo, Leaks, Mixed messaging, Undermining NPHET, undermining the very coalition he helped form. FF too seemed almost incapable of responding, let alone make decisions. The debacle continued.

Then the whopper, a push to have a meaningful Christmas, to my mind the worst decision of any government in the history of the state, the excuses later given was conflating the actual advice NPHET gave and of course its the new Variants fault. Weeks went by, absolutely no accountability and for once FF/FG were in agreement on one thing, It was not our fault. Eventually they accepted they made mistakes, half heartedly of course.

The Vacinne roll out, pretty much like everything senior HSE management oversee has been a shambles and quite frankly the "I know best" attitude from Stephen Donnelly is quite hard to stomach at times", he sounds more like an American motivational speaker than a Government minister for health.

Leo's leakage took up a week of headlines and ironically his personal travails led him to go all quite, almost behaving himself, no mixed messages, similar thoughts being leaked from. Parliamentary party meetings, all quite a turn of events.

So to Surmise, quite the cock up generally, I'd give Michael Martin some credit. Leo, very little but above all, I'm left scratching my head about one person, Eamonn Ryan, why is he even in Government, What exactly has he contributed, in essence, Just, Why o Why o Why

lawred2

Andrewf20 wrote: »

I actually have some level of sympathy for the government as they are caught between a rock and a hard place. Truth is that some people are to blame as rule breakers due to being fed up with this prolonged situation. But the virus doesn't care and its probably why cases have flatlined where they are.

Public choice theory talks about how people will often choose their own desires at the expense of the common good. This covid saga is a good example of that.

Ireland climbed to 13th in the world happiness index so maybe we are doing better than alot of other places.

Blame? Rule breakers?

Nice words

Andrewf20

lawred2 wrote: »

Blame? Rule breakers?

Nice words

How else can it be described? I can see how people have loosened up alot in the last few weeks as they start to hit rock bottom. Its a battle between peoples capacity to endure lockdown and the capacity of the virus to spread. In the middle is the government trying to juggle these 2 forces.

lawred2

Andrewf20 wrote: »

How else can it be described? I can see how people have loosened up alot in the last few weeks as they start to hit rock bottom. Its a battle between peoples capacity to endure lockdown and the capacity of the virus to spread. In the middle is the government trying to juggle these 2 forces.

I don't "blame" anyone for being human and not always adhering to prolonged unnatural living arrangements.

The restrictions on outdoor interaction are not evidence backed. Yet you'd still seek to declare those that are reacting to that as rule breakers and covid spreaders.

Even your language pits these regular normal every day people as some sort of a dark force in the face of the good and moral.

Most people adhere to rules and laws that are credible.

PintOfView

Dempo1 wrote: »

Then the whopper, a push to have a meaningful Christmas, to my mind the worst decision of any government in the history of the state

I agree it's wasn't a good move, but there was plenty of pressure to do it.
Kudos to you if you were saying that at the beginning of Dec (no kudos if you weren't!)

Dempo1 wrote: »

The Vacinne roll out, pretty much like everything senior HSE management oversee has been a shambles

As a matter of interest, how has it been a shambles?
As far as I understand the vaccine is being put in arms a few days after arrival in the country!
Are you saying it's not?

VinLieger

PintOfView wrote: »

I agree it's wasn't a good move, but there was plenty of pressure to do it.
Kudos to you if you were saying that at the beginning of Dec (no kudos if you weren't!)



As a matter of interest, how has it been a shambles?
As far as I understand the vaccine is being put in arms a few days after arrival in the country!
Are you saying it's not?

There's reports in the last few days of HSE office staff who have no contact with patients or frontline workers receiving the vaccine ahead of the likes of gardai and other groups who should be well ahead of them in the priority listing.

beggars_bush

VinLieger wrote: »

There's reports in the last few days of HSE office staff who have no contact with patients or frontline workers receiving the vaccine ahead of the likes of gardai and other groups who should be well ahead of them in the priority listing.

Finance staff
They often have to go onto wards though

Rodin

beggars_bush wrote: »

Finance staff
They often have to go onto wards though

And have to process the wages of the frontline staff.

Andrewf20

lawred2 wrote: »

I don't "blame" anyone for being human and not always adhering to prolonged unnatural living arrangements.

The restrictions on outdoor interaction are not evidence backed. Yet you'd still seek to declare those that are reacting to that as rule breakers and covid spreaders.

Even your language pits these regular normal every day people as some sort of a dark force in the face of the good and moral.

Most people adhere to rules and laws that are credible.

The word "blame" does sound harsh but I'm struggling to think of an alternative word to describe my point. I have sympathy for people in the pits with this lockdown. I'm fed up with it too. But the nature of human behaviour is creating some level of covid spread.

The reality is that some laws in society are overly harsh because they know some people will break the rules. For example - everybody suffers speed bumps because 5% will speed. Holding (not even using) a mobile phone while driving with get you fined but holding a pair glasses won't. This is the same with covid restrictions. They don't make entire sense but are in place to limit the risk in light of human behaviour.

PintOfView

VinLieger wrote: »

There's reports in the last few days of HSE office staff who have no contact with patients or frontline workers receiving the vaccine ahead of the likes of gardai and other groups who should be well ahead of them in the priority listing.

If true, that wouldn't be satisfactory, however, there will always be those that abuse the system, regardless of government policy.

What percentage of all vaccinations do you think go to those on the priority lists, and what percentage leak elsewhere?

If it's a small percentage that's diverted then I wouldn't call it a shambles, but someone should be held accountable.
If it's a large percentage then that someone should probably be the minister for health.

M_Murphy57

Rodin wrote: »

And have to process the wages of the frontline staff.

Its 2021, they arent handing nurses an envelope of cash on a Friday evening. "Processing wages" is an online/electronic activity.

It's an absolute disgrace that non public facing/wfh staff in the HSE are being offered/accepting vaccines. Their top dog on 450k a year and with a year to plan and they couldnt figure out what staff should and should not get prioritised for vaccines ?

djr15

Imagine being told in March 2020 you were going to have a badly leaking pipe in your house.

Instead of preventing/addressing the leak, you instead told everyone in the house to put on wellies.

12 months on, the leak still isn’t fixed and you are scattering napkins around in the water to try and control the levels.

Melanchthon

Rodin wrote: »

And have to process the wages of the frontline staff.

There is literally no reason why they would need to be in a risky environment, how the hell do you think all those massive private sector companies that have been operating at nearly 100% working from home for a year have been paying people?

Away With The Fairies

So over in England, they are testing school kids twice a week. Heard that workplaces with employees that can't work from home are also getting tested twice a week.

While over here, I read that they will have a walk in covid test centre without needing a referral from your GP. And only in areas with high covid cases. My issue with this walk in clinic is that it will be people showing up with symptoms.

How about we test anyone and everyone, a year into this whole mess?

Strumms

I think it’s probably only appropriate and right to judge them as a collective in the aftermath of this shîtshow, it could have gone better in some respects and could have gone worse... I think however truly Varadkar will go down as the greatest sham of a political leader in the history of the state, despite his medical knowledge and resources he was slow to think, slow to act and only did so with a gun to his head..

Unfortunately what we can judge are the selfish prick artists in our communities who from day one and to today and beyond, living beside us, in our midst... criticizing the government, HSE, NPHET...yet have not come close to being team players or rule observers .... they’ve been complicit in people getting sick and dying.

VinLieger

Strumms wrote: »

I think it’s probably only appropriate and right to judge them as a collective in the aftermath of this shîtshow, it could have gone better in some respects and could have gone worse... I think however truly Varadkar will go down as the greatest sham of a political leader in the history of the state, despite his medical knowledge and resources he was slow to think, slow to act and only did so with a gun to his head..

Unfortunately what we can judge are the selfish prick artists in our communities who from day one and to today and beyond, living beside us, in our midst... criticizing the government, HSE, NPHET...yet have not come close to being team players or rule observers .... they’ve been complicit in people getting sick and dying.

Id disagree with your criticisms of Vardakar, when he was in charge i think he did quite well however since they went into coalition and hes been tanaiste he has been appalling with his commenting, contradicting and petty party politics.

MM far better fits your description of someone refusing to act than Varadkar in my opinion. My impression of MM is someone who will only make a decision when he has 10 reports on his desk that all 100% agree with each other, he is the most indecisive and over cautious leader we have ever had. And yes some caution right now is definitely a good thing but due to his over caution we are always on the back foot and only ever reacting to things. They have not engaged in one single proactive thing as regards Covid since he took over.

RGS

I agree MM has been a disaster but his first mistake was becoming Taoiseach first.--Total error of judgement IMO.
Re opening the country was always going to be harder than closing the country.

I also believe he is scarred and scared after Christmas so his ultra caution will be the dominant trait for the next number of months.

arccosh

I feel like Ireland did the equivalent of having a chip pan fire, throwing a dry cloth onto it.... that bursting into flames, so we fill a basin of water onto it and throw it over.... the kitchen catching fire but we manage to grab the pan and throw it through the window, but the oil landed on the cat, who is now and fire and runs into the shed and now the shed is on fire....

when all they had to do was use the fire blanket beside the cooker

is_that_so

RGS wrote: »

I agree MM has been a disaster but his first mistake was becoming Taoiseach first.--Total error of judgement IMO.
Re opening the country was always going to be harder than closing the country.

I also believe he is scarred and scared after Christmas so his ultra caution will be the dominant trait for the next number of months.

He wanted to be Taoiseach first as part of the deal, his last chance.

Red Silurian

Something to bear in mind, this time last year the govt were largely following NPHETs advice and we had a slow and steady reopening and Hoolohan was standing alongside Varadkar and Harris during press conferences

Then

In May NPHET recommended hotel quarantine and discouraged a green list - Ignored by govt
In October NPHET recommended the country move to Lv5 - Ignored by govt
In December NPHET recommended hospitality should not open - Ignored by govt

Has Hoolohan and Martin stood side by side yet in a press release?

Plumbthedepths

Red Silurian wrote: »

Something to bear in mind, this time last year the govt were largely following NPHETs advice and we had a slow and steady reopening and Hoolohan was standing alongside Varadkar and Harris during press conferences

Then

In May NPHET recommended hotel quarantine and discouraged a green list - Ignored by govt
In October NPHET recommended the country move to Lv5 - Ignored by govt
In December NPHET recommended hospitality should not open - Ignored by govt

Has Hoolohan and Martin stood side by side yet in a press release?

Last March/April Holohan advised the nursing homes not to restrict visitors, how did that work out? Not sure who Holohan was stood beside when he said it, is it important?

Red Silurian

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Last March/April Holohan advised the nursing homes not to restrict visitors, how did that work out? Not sure who Holohan was stood beside when he said it, is it important?

Nursing homes have been closed to visitors since March 6th, was that not a NPHET call? The outbreaks in nursing homes was caused by people being moved from hospitals to nursing homes, that was definitely not a NPHET policy

It looks to me that there's been a rift between govt and NPHET

is_that_so

Red Silurian wrote: »

Something to bear in mind, this time last year the govt were largely following NPHETs advice and we had a slow and steady reopening and Hoolohan was standing alongside Varadkar and Harris during press conferences

Then

In May NPHET recommended hotel quarantine and discouraged a green list - Ignored by govt

Well NPHET do not and never have run the country. They just advise.
FG were not fans of this, still aren't.

In October NPHET recommended the country move to Lv5 - Ignored by govt

The well-documented route to this was Level 3 good on Thursday, maybe Level 4 on Saturday and Level 5 unbeknownst to anyone on Sunday. Cue a whole lot of irate ministers, a lot of the public and the new Cabinet sub-committee. Not their finest hour in communication.

In December NPHET recommended hospitality should not open - Ignored by govt

Has Hoolohan and Martin stood side by side yet in a press release?

Always a risky call and probably pressured. Completely underestimated the determination to have fun.

Red Silurian

is_that_so wrote: »

Well NPHET do not and never have run the country. They just advise.
FG were not fans of this, still aren't.

They didn't complain too much about NPHET advice when things were going well in our containment phase or reopening phases last summer

The well-documented route to this was Level 3 good on Thursday, maybe Level 4 on Saturday and Level 5 unbeknownst to anyone on Sunday. Cue a whole lot of irate ministers, a lot of the public and the new Cabinet sub-committee. Not their finest hour in communication.

NPHET is composed of doctors, not communicators... The situation changed overnight, changes had to be suggested overnight... Politicians thought they knew better than doctors during a pandemic

Always a risky call and probably pressured. Completely underestimated the determination to have fun.

This I can agree with

Plumbthedepths

Red Silurian wrote: »

Nursing homes have been closed to visitors since March 6th, was that not a NPHET call? The outbreaks in nursing homes was caused by people being moved from hospitals to nursing homes, that was definitely not a NPHET policy

It looks to me that there's been a rift between govt and NPHET

https://mobile.twitter.com/rtenews/status/1250472052198440961?lang=en
Btw who do you think was elected to run the country and who's job do you think it is to advise?

is_that_so

Red Silurian wrote: »

They didn't complain too much about NPHET advice when things were going well in our containment phase or reopening phases last summer

NPHET is composed of doctors, not communicators... The situation changed overnight, changes had to be suggested overnight... Politicians thought they knew better than doctors during a pandemic

You really have to do both properly. The "doctors" neglected to give the politicians a heads up on what they might be discussing, so the first they knew was from a letter which was guaranteed to get leaked. Some NPHET members have acknowledged the poor communications around that. NPHET at that time was giving the impression that only their views counted.

quokula

Every time I open this thread it's like people are living in some parallel universe with no connection to reality. Some even comparing us to the UK and saying we've done worse? Seriously? 150,000 dead there and counting.

It's a pandemic like nothing any of us have ever had to deal with before. Governments aren't omnipotent and can't control the laws of nature, and there have of course been mistakes along the way.

Ireland has, however, managed to keep our death rates among the lowest in the western world, while also maintaining the strongest economic growth in Europe, was well ahead of the curve in getting PPE to essential health care workers and protecting them, has been running one of the more generous pandemic unemployment payments out there, we have one of the highest rates of vaccination of on earth (yes, there are exceptions like Israel and the UK, but they're far from the norm), and we've achieved all of this while also dealing with the complications of Brexit being thrust upon is in parallel. Meanwhile most people here are able to maintain pretty comfortable lives while ranting and raving against the government online, while millions around the world are left destitute and / or grieving lost loved ones.

Cluedo Monopoly

quokula wrote: »

Ireland has, however, managed to keep our death rates among the lowest in the western world.

Where are you getting that stat?

This link suggest otherwise (sort by Fatality Rate or Deaths per 100k)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country