How would you rate the governments performance tackling Covid so far

doublejobbing 2

Red Silurian wrote: »

They closed the border with the mainland but couldn't convince their buddies in stormont to do the same, they also left 13 hours between the announcement and the closure, messing aer Lingus put on extra flights... It should have been a 2-3 hour window at a maximum realistically

They closed it too late.

The North was irrelevant.

If we had Gardai seal the NI border it would have just been too much effort for somebody from Kerry to go from London to Belfast and have someone pick them up and drive to Kerry, risking arrest on the way. It would have ruled out 98% of them.

Instead, we asked politely.

robbiezero

beauf wrote: »

You kinda are since you're asking for the perfect detail of the impossible.

There is absolutely evidence of super spreader events. Thats the whole point of contact tracing.

I am wondering how the poster knows that the virus is just being spread by people not following restrictions.

Red Silurian

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

They closed it too late.

The North was irrelevant.

If we had Gardai seal the NI border it would have just been too much effort for somebody from Kerry to go from London to Belfast and have someone pick them up and drive to Kerry, risking arrest on the way. It would have ruled out 98% of them.

Instead, we asked politely.

The North was relevant because most people were coming into Dublin anyway

They also left it too late, on what would usually be a sleepy Sunday at Heathrow the number of flights to Ireland doubled

muddypuppy

Not great. Good stuff:
- Good message at the beginning
- We could exit our houses back in March/April for a walk, and that was so nice compared to the situation in Italy where they literally had drones follow runners for breaching rules on live TV.
- The vaccination campaign is going OK now, beside the delay in publishing data. I'm not going to blame the vaccine shortage on the government, and they're mostly putting all the doses we get in arms

Then there is the bad stuff:
- Too slow opening during the summer. Other countries had >50 people outdoor gathering, pubs/disco opens etc... and we were stuck with the 9 euros essential meals.
- The idiotic green list, that they forgot to update for months.
- Level 3 to Level 5 two days after it was said that Level 3 was enough.
- The idiotic Level system where we never really followed the levels.
- The 3 weeks break in December was nice, but the effect was obvious in retrospective. It was a much needed breath of fresh air, but could have been handled much better.

And then the very bad:
- The message right now. Really? Everyone says different things every day and there is absolutely no coesive message coming from the government.
- Completely failing to protect nursing homes and hospital in both the first and the third wave. The third one is especially terrible, since we now know Covid better and the vast majority of deaths are coming there.
- The constant back and forth between NPHET and the government. A lot of the times it feels that the government is not really making the decision, and if they go their own way NPHET will shame them by publishing their letters or leaking stuff to the media.

What I'm worried about is that I would expect things to get better as it goes on, instead we were getting a clearer message last April than we get now.

robbiezero

First Up wrote: »

The people who are passing the virus to each other, either directly or indirectly. That's the only way it spreads and stays alive.

If people took the precautions that have been repeatedly set out in black and white, transmission would stop. The reason the virus is still alive is that people are not doing that.

Can you link the research behind that statement?

Red Silurian

robbiezero wrote: »

Can you link the research behind that statement?

The main precaution quoted by the who is to keep 2m away from others

http://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0525/1140396-social-distancing-reduction/

If people did that our numbers would be zero after the 2 week incubation period, they are still not zero after almost a year

Melanchthon

Cameron326 wrote: »

I voted "Disastrous" ... BUT I would put at least half the countries in Western Europe in that same category. We all failed abysmally compared to many Asian nations. Partly due to our failure to learn from their experiences with SARS etc (they certainly did), partly due to their more collectivist attitudes and greater willingness to make personal sacrifice in the early days, partly due to better government preparedness and implementation of technology (go back to point 1).

My biggest criticism of us would be never at any point restricting foreign travel - or at least applying strong and enforceable quarantine measures - eg enforced "hotel" quarantine. That was unforgivable - particularly for an island nation (and that goes for the UK obviously).

On top of that a minority of people just didn't take it seriously for far too long - its not all on the government. The fact that people here and in the UK were still happily walking around in shops and busy supermarkets maskless in June/July still amazes me. People in China, Korea, Japan, Singapore etc thought we were all off our nuts.

I would add to this, the message from the early stages of the pandemic should be that the WHO should not be listened too as it has been captured by political concerns. The Asian countries that have kept a lid on the pandemic did so because they ignored WHO statements, as you say because of SARS and MERS, SARS which the WHO officials are on tape saying China also didn't share information fast enough.

beauf

robbiezero wrote: »

I am wondering how the poster knows that the virus is just being spread by people not following restrictions.

That's not what was said. So it's an bogus question.

Cluedo Monopoly

Frozen Veg wrote: »

A new party is needed with no connections to the current establishments.

Fianna fail ran the country to the ground and they are following a similar pattern this time.

Fianna Gael are much of the same. Have delivered mediocrity time and time again. Just didn't reach the catastrophes of Fianna Fail.

Sinn Fein. God knows. Wouldn't have faith in their ability to do any better. Could set the country back decades in other regards.

Labour. Offer nothing more than above.

Fresh thinking and blood is needed. Would be great to see young people getting into politics not joining the establishments above but looking to create fresh thinking and a new approach.

I personally think the 6 TDs from the Social Democrats have been superb.

Tenzor07

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Current handling is shambolic.
Level 5 from December through to April, at least, is a damning indictment of their intelligence and handling of the situation.Furious and frustrated at this point. Just hating life.

Level 5 on and and off since last April you mean... Flicking off the level 5 switch since then.. the longest and most conservative lockdown in Europe...

National policy being dictated by an overly visible and vocal Doctor in the shape of Pope Holohan... weak political leadership by FFFG ... a weak politcal opposition in the form of Sinn Fein..

...the court of public outrage and shaming led by RTE and other mainstream news outlets...also dictating the response...

Tenzor07

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I personally think the 6 TDs from the Social Democrats have been superb.

Who?

Samsonsmasher

SheepsClothing wrote: »

That much is clear.

Good

Red Silurian

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I personally think the 6 TDs from the Social Democrats have been superb.

Looking around the world at the few countries that managed to control the virus they all have one thing in common politically

Taiwan - Democratic socialist party
Vietnam - Single Party Socialist Republic
New Zealand - Labour
Australia - Labour

Now let's look at the heaviest death counts

USA - Republicans (until the recent change)
Britain - Tories
Brazil - Bolsonaro is technically independent and good friends with Trump

muddypuppy

muddypuppy wrote: »

Not great. Good stuff:
- Good message at the beginning
- We could exit our houses back in March/April for a walk, and that was so nice compared to the situation in Italy where they literally had drones follow runners for breaching rules on live TV.
- The vaccination campaign is going OK now, beside the delay in publishing data. I'm not going to blame the vaccine shortage on the government, and they're mostly putting all the doses we get in arms

Then there is the bad stuff:
- Too slow opening during the summer. Other countries had >50 people outdoor gathering, pubs/disco opens etc... and we were stuck with the 9 euros essential meals.
- The idiotic green list, that they forgot to update for months.
- Level 3 to Level 5 two days after it was said that Level 3 was enough.
- The idiotic Level system where we never really followed the levels.
- The 3 weeks break in December was nice, but the effect was obvious in retrospective. It was a much needed breath of fresh air, but could have been handled much better.

And then the very bad:
- The message right now. Really? Everyone says different things every day and there is absolutely no coesive message coming from the government.
- Completely failing to protect nursing homes and hospital in both the first and the third wave. The third one is especially terrible, since we now know Covid better and the vast majority of deaths are coming there.
- The constant back and forth between NPHET and the government. A lot of the times it feels that the government is not really making the decision, and if they go their own way NPHET will shame them by publishing their letters or leaking stuff to the media.

What I'm worried about is that I would expect things to get better as it goes on, instead we were getting a clearer message last April than we get now.

I think thats a fair rundown tbh

Christmas onwards has been terrible but the boys playing amateur politics last week is by far the low point (the other low points were at least things you could say are only easily dealt with in retrospect)

Cluedo Monopoly

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I personally think the 6 TDs from the Social Democrats have been superb.

Examples of this superbness, please.

What a pity that they’d decided to be hurlers on the ditch rather than active participants on the field of play b

First Up

robbiezero wrote:

Can you link the research behind that statement?

2 meters, wear a mask, wash your hands.

Does any of that ring a bell?

beauf

robbiezero wrote: »

Can you link the research behind that statement?

It's obvious from the lock down stats.

doublejobbing 2

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Why are people so obsessed with foreign travel and house parties??

Don't understand it.

.

95% plus of our cases originate from London (mostly) based Irish people who should not have been allowed into the country in December.

How can people not understand this? If we had closed the border in early December we would have somewhere between 24 to 40 cases per day.

If we had closed it in June we would have effectively next to no cases, probably a dozen or two per week.

Macy0161

I think they've done "OK".

Locking down borders/ mandatory quarantine is all well and good, but ignores the political realities of the island. And our main opposition are a key factor in a lack of trust in the North which makes an all island approach (which would be needed) not a realistic option. SF would make hay on an all island approach, scaring off the Unionists; and they'd also make hay at any attempt to lock the border.

They made an obvious mistake around Christmas, but the UK variant has clearly been a factor in the fall out. And would the population really have stuck to no household visits, if that was the rules? I'd have my doubts tbh.

Biggest failings have been general enforcement and contact tracing for me. Too slow to give the Gardai the powers, and insist on enforcement. Contact Tracing should've been ramped up over the summer.

ShineOn7

From here

The words of a Cork cafe owner

A few, carefully chosen words to our Taoiseach.

We have now been closed for about 9 months of the last year.

There are 480,000 people unemployed because of this pandemic, 150,000 of those, in hospitality.

We understand that we are closed to keep our fellow citizens safe, (we closed before we were directed to last year.)

We understand the seriousness of this pandemic.

We understand the terrible cost to so many.

We understand.

We don’t understand why 5,600 people flew into Ireland from countries on Covid warning lists last month.

We don’t understand why you still haven’t worked out a quarantine plan.

We don’t understand the communication shambles.

We don’t understand the contempt that you show to half a million people.
All we ask of you, is leadership, We don’t expect dynamism, just leadership.
Do not offfer a pay rise of €82k to a senior health manager, the same week as you tell a senior hospitality manager that you are taxing her €350 a week pandemic payment.

Do not allow our managers, chefs and floor staff to find out through leaks and whispers to journalists, that they are now part of the long term unemployed.

Do not pretend to understand our pain, when your salary still lands each month and your pension is still paid by the tax on our pandemic payment.
Do not pretend to understand what it’s like to find that the business you built, the career that you chose, the future that you planned, are worthless in the eyes of our government.

Do not pretend, lead.

Get your ministers and advisors together, form a cogent plan, go on national television, look us in the eye and tell us what it is and why we are doing it.
This morning, nearly half a million retail workers, musicians, hotel managers and former taxpayers are waiting, waiting for you to lead.
Waiting for you to tell us that there is a plan.


Waiting, at home, with the last vestiges of hope as company.


Yours sincerely


Richard Jacob


Idaho

PintOfView

robbiezero wrote: »

I am wondering how the poster knows that the virus is just being spread by people not following restrictions.

I'm wondering how you think it's spreading?
Is it being spread by people who do follow restrictions?

First Up

Macy0161 wrote: »

I think they've done "OK".

Locking down borders/ mandatory quarantine is all well and good, but ignores the political realities of the island. And our main opposition are a key factor in a lack of trust in the North which makes an all island approach (which would be needed) not a realistic option. SF would make hay on an all island approach, scaring off the Unionists; and they'd also make hay at any attempt to lock the border.

They made an obvious mistake around Christmas, but the UK variant has clearly been a factor in the fall out. And would the population really have stuck to no household visits, if that was the rules? I'd have my doubts tbh.

Biggest failings have been general enforcement and contact tracing for me. Too slow to give the Gardai the powers, and insist on enforcement. Contact Tracing should've been ramped up over the summer.

You would need a lot less enforcement if you had a lot more compliance. People are giving the virus to each other because they are not doing what they have been asked to do.

beauf

PintOfView wrote: »

I'm wondering how you think it's spreading?
Is it being spread by people who do follow restrictions?

It will be spread by everyone. Just less often by people following the restrictions and precautions.

Royale with Cheese

I would say quite bad up until 2021, then absolutely abysmal. That picture of Mícheál Martin posing with the Mirror journalist complete with shít eating grin on his face, as he's just used a tabloid rag to tell the population our Level 5 lockdown will be extended into a fifth month. Unforgivable, couldn't actually face the population.

SnuggyBear

Top performance, simply brilliant.

beauf

ShineOn7 wrote: »

From here

The words of a Cork cafe owner

A lot of valid points there. Though it doesn't justify reopening just that they shouldn't allow so much travel.

You could argue that if we'd had tighter borders we build have been less restrictive internally. But that ship sailed a long time ago.

Scott Tenorman

The current FF/FG government has been a disaster.

Their communication, from kite flying, to leaking, to mixed messages coming from different ministers, has been simply awful.

The "Living with Covid" plan :rolleyes: lasted about one day before they ignored it and just made it up as they went along. It is now "Hiding Under The Bed From Covid"

Worst of all though, that nobody seems to mention, is despite the publics incredible effort and sacrifice for nearly a year at this stage to stop the hospitals being overwhelmed they have made no effort to increase hospital capacity and contact tracing has been a joke. The two things that they could do from their end to make our efforts worthwhile and they haven't done them.

Regarding contact tracing when Philip Nolan described it as an "academic exercise" that was the light bulb moment for me when I realised they are all full of s**t. What an extraordinary thing to say about probably THE most important tool to keep this from spreading.

Allowing travel into the country- disaster. Still not sorted even now.
Despite an earlier poster claiming this only makes up a small percentage of cases that is wrong: every single case has on this island has directly or indirectly been caused by inward travel. Every single one.

doublejobbing 2

The problem regarding opposition to this is that it was hijacked. By allowing Ben Gilroy, John Waters, Jim Corr, Gemma O'Doherty and whatever you're having yourself, be the first opposition with their rants about Bill Gates, microchip vaccines and 5G networks, it allowed the lunatics to run the narrative. Perfectly rational figures who came after, who questioned the criteria for correlating deaths and numbers et al were never given an option.

There are seemingly no moderates representing the regular people's concerns be it in the media, the medical community or the Dail aside from TD Michael McNamara (one man in a 160 odd seat Dail). Those in the medical community are given little to no media coverage.

robbiezero

PintOfView wrote: »

I'm wondering how you think it's spreading?
Is it being spread by people who do follow restrictions?

Very likely I'd imagine.

jimmycrackcorm

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Abysmal

The UK NHS has vaccinated millions of Britons while we have barely 250000 out of a population of 5 million.

The UK looks set to open up without restrictions or masks months - at least - before we do.
They will be back to work commuting and enjoying pubs restaurants cinemas theatres concerts and foreign holidays before the year is out.

We will be languishing in lockdowns still waiting for our injections - if we keep rolling over that is!

Anyone who still has faith in this government or nphet has lost the plot

This spring and summer the public especially the young will ignore the restrictions and carry on with normal life.

It's gone beyond a joke

Our economy is on its knees and our people are fed up to their back teeth.

I'd be willing to bet that if there was an equivalent poll in the UK, that we'd see over 50% would also class the UK approach as disastrous.

YouGov UK polls currently show only 43% think that the government is handling it ok or better.

The old adage is true: “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”