Become landlord but keep bills in my name

the_syco

Firblog wrote: »

If they stop paying the rent or the bills then I phone up the ESB / Gas company and say I'm not paying that last bill or any more bills so cut off supply.

And the ESB/Gas company will tell you the bill is in your name, you can pay for it, and they won't cut off the electricity.

Firblog wrote: »

I'd rather be caught for one/two months rent & bills than 12+ months rent.

You'll be caught with 12 months no rent, and 12 months of bills. And your name will be dragged through he newspapers as the scumbag landlord who tried to leave family and kids with no heating during winter.

Firblog wrote: »

I wouldn't be disconnecting them, I'd just be refusing to pay the bills.

THE

TENANTS

WON'T

CARE

But you'll be brought to court when the bills go high enough. No money to pay the bills? The utilities company will take the house.

=-=

There's no legal way of doing what you hope to do.

endacl

endacl wrote: »

How many ways do you want to hear it can’t work, won’t work, and would leave you with bigger and more expensive problems in the long run?

Oh.

A few more...

Bigfatmichael

An illegal eviction occurs where a landlord, through force, intimidation or any other means (such as cutting off utilities or changing locks), denies you access to the home you are renting or removes your belongings from the dwelling regardless of whether or not a valid notice of termination has been served.

The Residential Tenancies Act 2004 (as amended) outlines very precisely the conditions under which a tenancy may be terminated by a landlord and the steps and procedures that must be followed. A landlord can never take the law into his/her own hands.

Even if you are in rent arrears, your landlord cannot seize your belongings in order to force payment. There is a clear legal process that your landlord/agent must follow which includes giving you a written warning of the arrears and sending a copy to the Residential Tenancies Board (RTB). The RTB will then inform you of any advice available from Money Advice and Budgeting Service (MABS). If after 28 days the rent arrears have not been paid, the landlord can seek to end your tenancy by issuing a minimum of 28 days’ written notice of termination and, again, sending a copy to the RTB. If you have been impacted by COVID-19 and having difficulty paying the rent you may be able to avail of additional protection until January 2021. Please click here for more on this.

If you are threatened with an illegal eviction contact Threshold immediately.





What to do
If your landlord threatens or attempts to remove you from your property, you should contact your local Threshold office immediately. Remember, a landlord may not take the law into his/her own hands.
Contact the Gardaí immediately if someone is using force to remove you or your belongings from your home
Contact the Residential Tenancies Board (RTB) and inform them of the fact that you are being illegal evicted.
Inform your landlord that you have been in contact with the RTB, Threshold and the Gardaí
Take a sound or video recording of the illegal eviction if you can do so without putting yourself at risk. You should also take photographs.
In order to prepare for a possible RTB hearing you should keep a log of events, record vehicle number plates, incoming phone numbers, Garda names and numbers etc.
Make a list of any items you have been denied access to or that have been damaged or lost during the illegal eviction and keep any receipts for replacements
Keep a record of any other expenses incurred as a direct result of the eviction such as B&B or hotel costs.

Graham

endacl wrote: »

Oh.

A few more...

Was tempted to close the thread but now I'm kinda curious how many....

An Ri rua

You could set up hidden cameras in every room op. It is YOUR house after all. And your electricity and broadband.
Then it would be like Minority Report, you could predict that they were about to stop paying the rent and have a killswitch running on Hive, or some such contraption, and just leave those losers hatching their dirty plans in the dark. Like the rats they are.

endacl

Now we're getting places!

K.Flyer

Firblog wrote: »

I wouldn't be disconnecting them, I'd just be refusing to pay the bills.

You obviously don't know how utility services deal with people who don't pay their bills.
Your Bill, Your Debt, Your Credit Rating!
Nevermind the legal mess, as has already been mentioned, that you could walk yourself into via RTB.

Graham

Firblog wrote: »

Having read the issues people have had with non paying tenants, rent mounting up and no way to get them to leave etc I was wondering if I kept the gas & electric in my name, would it be a guard against a situation where a tenant would stay in the house without paying? If rent went into arrears I could just get the electric & gas cut off

OP, here's a quick summary.

At best, you're volunteering to be responsible for your tenants utility bills. You should be ok, they'll probably pay you for the utilities.

At worst, you're heading into illegal eviction territory. Cutting off utilities stopped being acceptable at around the same time as; sending in the heavies to collect overdue rent, or hiring goons to turf the tenants onto the kerb. Could be a very nicer earner for your ex-tenants though, unfortunately at your expense.

As plans go, it's not great.

ted1

Firblog wrote: »

I don't know if I have explained this right

I'm talking about me paying the bills while tenants are in situ. I get a bill and pass it onto the tenants. If they stop paying the rent or the bills then I phone up the ESB / Gas company and say I'm not paying that last bill or any more bills so cut off supply. When they cut the supplies the tenants move out, I pay the bills again and everything is good.

I'd rather be caught for one/two months rent & bills than 12+ months rent.

Utilities don’t cut off after 1 or 2 months.
To be honest. Sounds like being a landlord isn’t for you. Just sell the place.

Bigfatmichael

And what happens when they send you the money for the bills with a reference in their bank account for it and still withhold the rent.

What happens when they send you 20 documented emails and texts as evidence of power and gas been shut off.

paulieeye

I'm not sure what all the negative responses are for, OP I think its a great idea. It would give you full control on your tenants basic utilities they need to survive. Wait until its a cold snap then turn off the heat. Hopefully they will have a young family, no one would risk the health of their child so they probably just move into a hotel or something.

You need to protect yourself against them lighting a fire however, have you considered a sprinkler system?

km991148

paulieeye wrote: »

I'm not sure what all the negative responses are for, OP I think its a great idea. It would give you full control on your tenants basic utilities they need to survive. Wait until its a cold snap then turn off the heat. Hopefully they will have a young family, no one would risk the health of their child so they probably just move into a hotel or something.

You need to protect yourself against them lighting a fire however, have you considered a sprinkler system?

Well for that we do daily inspections where everything is doused with a watering can. If the place is kept quite damp then it will be hard to set on fire.



Seriously: I'm sorry OP, protecting your property is a serious and valid concern, but I think trying your best to find good tenants in the first place is the way to go and serves the best protection. Don't cheap out on that part of the process take time to find good people and minimise the chances of the worst case happening.

paulieeye

km991148 wrote: »

Well for that we do daily inspections where everything is doused with a watering can. If the place is kept quite damp then it will be hard to set on fire.

Make sure you give a daily 24hrs notice that there will be a visitation to comply with regulations

km991148

paulieeye wrote: »

Make sure you give a daily 24hrs notice that there will be a visitation to comply with regulations

Of course! I'm not a cowboy ffs

dancingqueen

Firblog wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell

It is against the law to cut off utilities/water/access to a tenant of a property. If you are going to be a landlord, do it properly. There are enough cowboys out there.

And yes, even if it's in your name.

You are also refusing them proof of address by putting bills in your own name. Not the smartest.

ted1

dancingqueen wrote: »

It is against the law to cut off utilities/water/access to a tenant of a property. If you are going to be a landlord, do it properly. There are enough cowboys out there.

And yes, even if it's in your name.

You are also refusing them proof of address by putting bills in your own name. Not the smartest.

If the bills are in his name. The tenant isn’t liable for them. I certainly wouldn’t pay a bill that’s addressed to someone else.

dancingqueen

ted1 wrote: »

If the bills are in his name. The tenant isn’t liable for them. I certainly wouldn’t pay a bill that’s addressed to someone else.

That is also a possibility but it would also go against their lease, it should have that all utilities are to be paid by the tenant mentioned. It could be a grey area though, if he won't let them have the bills in their own names, should it be taken to the PRTB. Either way, it's not the smartest idea!

ted1

dancingqueen wrote: »

That is also a possibility but it would also go against their lease, it should have that all utilities are to be paid by the tenant mentioned. It could be a grey area though, if he won't let them have the bills in their own names, should it be taken to the PRTB. Either way, it's not the smartest idea!

If the tenant was to hand over the money for the bills it’s be taxable including USC.

Claw Hammer

Firblog wrote: »

Sorry folks the most logical reason not to do it was posted by endacl, tenants have a right to choose supplier, but that fails when there is no choice of supplier surely, as I'm not denying them the choice?

All other responses seem to think that I'd be open to huge bills being run up.. how? first sign of trouble, call the suppliers telling them I refuse to pay, what are they going to do? - cut off the supply. No power, no heat.

I could not be accused of cutting of the utilities, the proper people would have done it for non payment of bills. Ok be hit with reconnection fees etc, but month's deposit, month rent in advance, shouldn't be hit for too much lost rent hopefully.

I don't see any scenario where huge bills could be run up by the tenants.

The energy regulator will not allow it, the RTB will not allow it and your clever dick schem will fail. If your tenants don't pay rent, the remedy is open a dispute with the RTB or sue them in court. It is specifically forbidden to cut of utilities as a means of pressurising tenants.

dancingqueen

ted1 wrote: »

If the tenant was to hand over the money for the bills it’s be taxable including USC.

not if the bills are addressed to someone else

ted1

dancingqueen wrote: »

not if the bills are addressed to someone else

??
The landlord wants the bills in his name. If the tenant handed over 100 euro to the landlord that would be taxable.

Claw Hammer

ted1 wrote: »

??
The landlord wants the bills in his name. If the tenant handed over 100 euro to the landlord that would be taxable.

The landlord would be entitled to deduct the cost of the electricity as an expense. Re-selling of electricty at a profit is not allowed.

hero25

Poor OP!! They only made a suggestion.
BTW - Ive lived in a house where this was the case and it worked great. Main reason it ended up this way was it was a house-share and there were always people moving. Nobody wanted the bill in their name as it meant having to chase your house mates for the money!
The landlord took on all bills in their name and we were quite happy with that! They sent us the monthly bills and we paid our portion of them.
Worked a treat! any portion of unpaid utility bills was taken from the deposit.
I'm sure the landlord got burned for a few quid every now and then, but i think it suited all parties.

km991148

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The landlord would be entitled to deduct the cost of the electricity as an expense. Re-selling of electricty at a profit is not allowed.

Either it's included in the rent, in which case you need to be careful when calculating the increase etc as you are giving a taxable benefit (which the op doesn't want as they want the tenant to pay their fair usage) OR the tenant pays separately for their usage, but in that case I have no idea how revenue would treat it. You are not reselling energy without a specific contract.

The whole idea (as already been pointed out several times) is just a bunch of ways to open yourself up to be screwed over. The op has been jumped on enough already for throwing this out as a random suggestion (by their own admission) and hopefully this isn't something they will embark on.

the_syco

hero25 wrote: »

The landlord took on all bills in their name and we were quite happy with that! They sent us the monthly bills and we paid our portion of them.
Worked a treat! any portion of unpaid utility bills was taken from the deposit.
I'm sure the landlord got burned for a few quid every now and then, but i think it suited all parties.

Oh, but this is not the OP's plan. The OP wants to know if it's legal for them to switch off the utilities when they want to get rid of the tenants, should the tenants not pay rent.

Firblog

the_syco wrote: »

Oh, but this is not the OP's plan. The OP wants to know if it's legal for them to switch off the utilities when they want to get rid of the tenants, should the tenants not pay rent.

I wouldn't be switching them off, that'd be the gas and electric companies doing it.

I've decided to refine the plan though from all the helpful suggestions on here, I'd prob sign up with one of the prepay electric providers prior to letting the house, the tenants would then have to pay for any electric themselves, bring in as many bar heaters as they want.

The gas company are usually fairly quick at threatening me with switching off the supply, when I forget to pay it for a few weeks (I have no contract, pay when the bill comes in), just tell them that I've squatters in if things go south? Not going to pay any further bills until I get them out.. defaulting tenants cant say I've cut off heating and light then? Perhaps supply a few bar heaters to have in situ? be handy for them, though they may wonder why they're there when moving in...

I don't have to supply broadband too do I?

Graham

Mod Note

perhaps a timely reminder from the forum charter.

Advocating illegal activity
Illegal stuff is illegal. It’s site-wide policy that advice, hints or suggestions of illegal or dubiously legal action are forbidden. Same applies to users who are looking for ways to circumvent situations in an illegal manner.

There will be no warnings.

Thanks

km991148

Firblog wrote: »

I wouldn't be switching them off, that'd be the gas and electric companies doing it.

I've decided to refine the plan though from all the helpful suggestions on here, I'd prob sign up with one of the prepay electric providers prior to letting the house, the tenants would then have to pay for any electric themselves, bring in as many bar heaters as they want.

The gas company are usually fairly quick at threatening me with switching off the supply, when I forget to pay it for a few weeks (I have no contract, pay when the bill comes in), just tell them that I've squatters in if things go south? Not going to pay any further bills until I get them out.. defaulting tenants cant say I've cut off heating and light then? Perhaps supply a few bar heaters to have in situ? be handy for them, though they may wonder why they're there when moving in...

I wouldn't have to supply broadband too do I?

You are not seriously still trying to make this plan work in any form?

Stop messing with the bills and find good tenants.

This is verging on wind up territory..

3DataModem

Firblog wrote: »

I don't know if I have explained this right

I'm talking about me paying the bills while tenants are in situ. I get a bill and pass it onto the tenants. If they stop paying the rent or the bills then I phone up the ESB / Gas company and say I'm not paying that last bill or any more bills so cut off supply. When they cut the supplies the tenants move out, I pay the bills again and everything is good.

I'd rather be caught for one/two months rent & bills than 12+ months rent.

And then the tenant calls up the ESB and says "I live here now, put the bills in my name". Done. They won't need your permission to do so, as residents / users they will be able to get the bills in their name.

Peregrinus

Firblog wrote: »

I wouldn't be switching them off, that'd be the gas and electric companies doing it.

If your strategy depends on not being held responsible for the forseeable and intended consequences of your actions, your strategy is going to fail. If your actions result in the tenants' utilities being cut off, then you are responsible for the tenants' utilities being cut off. Whether that is the result of you not paying the bills, or you telling the utility company that you won't be paying the bills, the outcome is the same; you have caused the tenants' utilities to be cut off.

Firblog wrote: »

I don't have to supply broadband too do I?

Depends on what it says in the rental agreement — which you get to draft, so if you want it to say that you don't have to supply broadband, it can say that. Nothing to stop the tenants entering into their own contract with a broadband provider, though.