Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

CoronaBlocker

jackboy wrote: »

It’s not really the known variants that are the issue it is the unknown ones. If one emerges that the vaccine cannot handle and it is already in the country then we are screwed.

So perma-lock down then? Just in case, like. Grand so, thanks.

runawaybishop

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I know this has been asked before.

Are the deaths counted as people who died of Covid or died and were positive at the time?

I've never seen an answer to this question.

Covid must be a contributing factor to go on a death cert. They must still have it when they die and if they died of, e.g, trauma then covid must not be put on the cert.

Jinglejangle69

runawaybishop wrote: »

Covid must be a contributing factor to go on a death cert. They must still have it when they die and if they died of, e.g, trauma then covid must not be put on the cert.

So if they had a heart attack and went into hospital and caught covid and died of heart complications unrelated to Covid it goes down as a covid death???

Sorry still confused.

Tyrone212

ginoginelli wrote: »

I'm watching the dail here, the Government, as expected, getting hammered on their disgraceful stance on travel.

Increduously, there is a question on whether meat workers will be deemed essential and exempt from hotel quaratining!!

The ****ing criminals in this corrupt coalition that are in cahoots with the beef barons are behind this no doubt.

Brazilian variant likes this question.

Plumbthedepths

Sweet.Science wrote: »

The haves and the have nots . Covid isn't affecting the middle class financially so screw the rest

Not a fan of Leo , but prior to Christmas when he was against going into level 5 he said those advocating level 5 would not be finding themselves on PUP as a result.
One thing that has become quite evident throughout is, we are clearly not all in this together.

jackboy

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

No we're not.

They said they will just adjust the vaccine to stop a strain that evades it and people will get a booster.

No point scaremongering like this.

To develop and produce an adjusted vaccine would take many months. It’s not scaremongering.

runawaybishop

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

So if they had a heart attack and went into hospital and caught covid and died if heart complications it goes down as a covid death???

Sorry still confused.

If the heart attack killed them, that's what goes on the cert. If they survived the heart attack but then covid caused further issues that they died from, covid goes on the cert. Covid cannot go on a cert if the death was attributable only to something else. All this is from the WHO guidelines, which are publicly available.

Plumbthedepths

jackboy wrote: »

To develop and produce an an adjusted vaccine would take many months. It’s not scaremongering.

Take many months eh? Funny that I seem to remember AZ stating about 6 weeks to tweak a vaccine if necessary. Prehaps you meant weeks not months or do you have information not available to the experts that work for Astra Zenica?

Turtwig

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Known unknowns eh? Sounds like a reason to lockdown forever. No one in or out , back to a 19th century agriculture based society. Sounds delightful.

CoronaBlocker wrote: »

So perma-lock down then? Just in case, like. Grand so, thanks.

Nobody is talking about jumping to the extreme of lockdown forever. Not even the zero covid ISAG are advocating that.

Having some safeguards to identify vaccine resistant variants in circulation and being able to suppress them rapidly is prudent. It could save us long term pain. Nobody can predict the impact variants will have. Getting any vaccine is better than none as they likely will provide some form of protection against other variants of covid. That may not be enough to prevent a full resurgence of the disease were a variant to emerge that had evaded the vaccines sufficiently.

Such a variant may never happen but to have no plan or contingency for such an event is beyond naive and silly especially now we have an appreciation for what the cost of such a mistake would be.

kennethsmyth

pjohnson wrote: »

Apparently the patriots are trying to organise a protest for Saturday. Hopefully the Gardai deal with them. They stopped some Dublin hairdresser looking for publicity earlier today at least.

They need stricter fines to stop that rubbish if we are to ever get things open, just strip the business from her for good.

Strip the business and all her staff permanently lose their jobs? Well done for that brilliant piece of deduction.

jackboy

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Take many months eh? Funny that I seem to remember AZ stating about 6 weeks to tweak a vaccine if necessary. Prehaps you meant weeks not months or do you have information not available to the experts that work for Astra Zenica?

Weeks to develop and produce enough vaccine to supply the western world. 😂

ceadaoin.

jackboy wrote: »

It’s not really the known variants that are the issue it is the unknown ones. If one emerges that the vaccine cannot handle and it is already in the country then we are screwed.

So stay under restrictions for a hypothetical? Sure at any time another virus could emerge and cause a pandemic. Maybe ebola and coronavirus really will merge to form a super virus like a previous poster suggested (lol). Better never return to normal. Just in case.

Or at some point, if you want to live in fear of possible scenarios then remove yourself from society to stay safe and let everyone else get on with things.

Plumbthedepths

Turtwig wrote: »

Nobody is talking about jumping to the extreme of lockdown forever. Not even the zero covid ISAG are advocating that.

Having some safeguards to identify vaccine resistant variants in circulation and being able to suppress them rapidly is prudent. It could save us long term pain. Nobody can predict the impact variants will have. Getting any vaccine is better than none as they likely will provide some form of protection against other variants of covid. That may not be enough to prevent a full resurgence of the disease were a variant to emerge that had evaded the vaccines sufficiently.

Such a variant may never happen but to have no plan or contingency for such an event is beyond naive and silly especially now we have an appreciation for what the cost of such a mistake would be.

So far the variants that have been mentioned do respond to vaccines, the effectiveness of the vaccine maybe reduced but still prevent severe reactions. The narrative pushed by the ZC fanatics is they are ineffective. Did you miss the piece on Today FM form Killeen and Staines? Even that clown Ryan is getting in on the action running with the new virus claim.
Have you knowledge to dismiss the claims of Luke O Neill or AZ that it is possible to tweak the vaccines that are developed if necessary?

Plumbthedepths

jackboy wrote: »

Weeks to develop and produce enough vaccine to supply the western world. 😂

Did I say weeks to supply? Far better to read what is wrote before you respond.

lukas8888

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Known unknowns eh? Sounds like a reason to lockdown forever. No one in or out , back to a 19th century agriculture based society. Sounds delightful.

Never mind the known unknowns,it's the unknown unknowns they will move on to next.

jackboy

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Did I say weeks to supply? Far better to read what is wrote before you respond.

Your gas. Go back and read our interaction again. Follow your own advice.

What good would a vaccine be until it is supplied.

lawred2

jackboy wrote: »

It’s not really the known variants that are the issue it is the unknown ones. If one emerges that the vaccine cannot handle and it is already in the country then we are screwed.

let's just live in fear forever

Turtwig

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So far the variants that have been mentioned do respond to vaccines, the effectiveness of the vaccine maybe reduced but still prevent severe reactions. The narrative pushed by the ZC fanatics is they are ineffective. Did you miss the piece on Today FM form Killeen and Staines? Even that clown Ryan is getting in on the action running with the new virus claim.
Have you knowledge to dismiss the claims of Luke O Neill or AZ that it is possible to tweak the vaccines that are developed if necessary?

Can we leave the zero covid advocates out of this? The issue of variants is one that needs to be discussed regardless of their input.

Vaccines can be developed as long as you can identify parts of the virus to target for their development. Right now, coronavirus makes vaccine development 'easy'. That may or may not be the case going forward. As it stands you can tweak it for variants very easily and likely for variants in the short term tweaks should be easy. After that though the timeline for tweak depends on the characteristics of the variant. If we're planning for a scenario where we don't ever want to be in this sh1t again we cannot assume vaccines would come to save us in time.

Put it this way. What'd be the shortest development and role out time? Even if AZ somehow accomplished all of this in 6 weeks in those intervening six weeks you'd still have some for social distancing and restrictions required. We need to put in measures in place to prevent that from ever occurring in the first place.

Tweaking vaccines should not be considered the solution. Rather they should be considered a failure of prevention.

Where we want to be is a seasonal covid vaccine every year or half year. Not a vaccine to get us out of a hole because a variant starts circulating that we simply let run free.

Plumbthedepths

lukas8888 wrote: »

Never mind the known unknowns,it's the unknown unknowns they will move on to next.

I really don't understand the desire of the more prominent members of ISAG to try and dismiss the vaccine as being almost worthless. You would seriously have to question the agenda of people such as them and the willingness of the media to give them a platform. The most bizarre is Ryan running with the new virus claim. For an intelligent guy he's a gob****e.

Plumbthedepths

Turtwig wrote: »

Can we leave the zero covid advocates out of this? The issue of variants is one that needs to be discussed regardless of their input.

Vaccines can be developed as long as you can identify parts of the virus to target for their development. Right now, coronavirus makes vaccine development 'easy'. That may or may not be the case going forward. As it stands you can tweak it for variants very easily and likely for variants in the short term tweaks should be easy. After that though the timeline for tweak depends on the characteristics of the variant. If we're planning for a scenario where we don't ever want to be in this sh1t again we cannot assume vaccines would come to save us in time.

Put it this way. What'd be the shortest development and role out time? Even if AZ somehow accomplished all of this in 6 weeks in those intervening six weeks you'd still have some for social distancing and restrictions required. We need to put in measures in place to prevent that from ever occurring in the first place.

Tweaking vaccines should not be considered the solution. Rather they should be considered a failure of prevention.

Where we want to be is a seasonal covid vaccine every year or half year. Not a vaccine to get us out of a hole because a variant starts circulating that we simply let run free.

Unfortunately you can't leave the ZC clowns out of this as they are the most vocal on variants and the biggest danger to universal buy in for the vaccination programme.

WoollyRedHat

Not sure if anyone heard Leo Varadkar on Morning Ireland. He said they would be looking at trends rather than exact metrics, for navigating reopening, based on 4 tests, which are following:

The Government will assess the R number, the number of people in hospitals with Covid, the pace of the vaccine rollout, and the influence of variants on the pandemic.

He added that government is hoping to see the number of Covid-19 patients in ICU fall to half of what it is now over the next month and that once people over 60 and under-60s with an underlying health condition are inoculated, over 98% of the job will be done,

Happydays2020

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I really don't understand the desire of the more prominent members of ISAG to try and dismiss the vaccine as being almost worthless. You would seriously have to question the agenda of people such as them and the willingness of the media to give them a platform. The most bizarre is Ryan running with the new virus claim. For an intelligent guy he's a gob****e.

Why do you think he is intelligent?

User142

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I really don't understand the desire of the more prominent members of ISAG to try and dismiss the vaccine as being almost worthless. You would seriously have of question the agenda of people such as them and the willingness of the media to give them a platform. The most bizarre is Ryan running with the new virus claim. For an intelligent guy he's a gob****e.

Its a tactic they are doing on purpose to increase the publics anxiety and uncertainty. They are trying to force the governments hand to adopt their zero covid nonsense by scaring the absolute sh*t out of people. And fortunately for them, the media loves doom mongering.

They want to kill people's belief in the vaccines potential. They want to depress the public to even further levels.

jackboy

lawred2 wrote: »

let's just live in fear forever

Having a proper quarantine at the airport in the middle of a pandemic is not living in fear. It’s just a cautious approach.

Plumbthedepths

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Why do you think he is intelligent?

I've seen his list of qualifications , I don't like the guy based on his absolutely disgraceful willingness to scaremonger but that does not colour my ability to recognise his intellect. There is no contradiction there for me. It's easy to hurl a childish insult tbh but it would reflect more on the hurler.

Plumbthedepths

User142 wrote: »

They want to kill people's belief in the vaccines potential. They want to depress the public to even further levels.

Their ZC strategy is a nonsense and unworkable. However their most dangerous and I would say insidious behaviour is their willingness to undermine the vaccination programme.

Plumbthedepths

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I've seen his list of qualifications , I don't like the guy based on his absolutely disgraceful willingness to scaremonger but that does not colour my ability to recognise his intellect. There is no contradiction there for me. It's easy to hurl a childish insult tbh but it would reflect more on the hurler.

well if he studies a subject for years, he'd be a fool not to be well educated in that subject. Intelligence is very broadly measured not by the spearman IQ test only or by the myers briggs tests, people like Alan sugar for example have superb intelligence. There was a science teacher on who want to be a millionaire last month and she went out on an actually easy science question!!! It was actually what do the skull and bones on chemical bottles represent!! she chose something other than TOXIC...A bloody science teaching graduate!!

WoollyRedHat

How is it that travellers from the US are not on the red list?

Happydays2020

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I've seen his list of qualifications , I don't like the guy based on his absolutely disgraceful willingness to scaremonger but that does not colour my ability to recognise his intellect. There is no contradiction there for me. It's easy to hurl a childish insult tbh but it would reflect more on the hurler.

He reminds me of a lighthouse in the middle of a dessert.

spookwoman