Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

Tork

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Whether Gript is a right leaning agenda is irrelevant. They have made serious accusations against named individuals which raises questions about the motivations and behaviour of these individuals. We are already aware of the attempts of some of the prominent members of ISAG to undermine the publics confidence in the vaccination programme. Such behaviour cannot be allowed to go unchallenged.

It needs to be confirmed if the accusations are genuine though.

Plumbthedepths

Tork wrote: »

It needs to be confirmed if the accusations are genuine though.

Agreed, however Staines and Killeen were on the Matt Cooper show undermining the vaccination programme,we also had Ryan running with the claim of a new virus. I wouldn't agree with gagging them but the bullsh!t they are peddling needs to be challenged and scrutinised.

Kivaro

Deeper Blue wrote: »

People are entitled to be fed up with restrictions, regardless of whether a 16 year old passed away (RIP)

Terrible news about the 16-year-old. RIP.
It was distasteful by RTE to lead off the early news on Morning Ireland with this story. They had George Lee up early to talk about it, and he also bellowed out the news of the most ICU Covid deaths (10) in one day since the pandemic started. RTE's primary focus once again this morning was on all the bad news yesterday, which is not beneficial to the collective mental health of the country. As our national broadcaster, they should balance the bad news with reporting that promotes positivity and optimism.

FlubberJones

Kivaro wrote: »

Terrible news about the 16-year-old. RIP.
It was distasteful by RTE to lead off the early news on Morning Ireland with this story. They had George Lee up early to talk about it, and he also bellowed out the news of the most ICU Covid deaths (10) in one day since the pandemic started. RTE's primary focus once again this morning was on all the bad news yesterday, which is not beneficial to the collective mental health of the country. As our national broadcaster, they should balance the bad news with reporting that promotes positivity and optimism.

I gave in on Irish news and TV in general years ago...but in the last week or so this has proven to be a huge positive... Check the doom, gloom and ****e coming from the RTE breakfast news against the huge positivity on the BBC news... no comparison at all. It's like two different planets when in reality we are 65 miles across the sea from each other.

plodder

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Whether Gript is a right leaning agenda is irrelevant. They have made serious accusations against named individuals which raises questions about the motivations and behaviour of these individuals. We are already aware of the attempts of some of the prominent members of ISAG to undermine the publics confidence in the vaccination programme. Such behaviour cannot be allowed to go unchallenged.

I saw the tweet posted yesterday here. The guy has 13.9K followers. I don't think they can ignore it.

Plumbthedepths

rusty cole wrote: »

Just had a look at gript.ie there for the crack, Israel creating a list eh?? what next, NON vaccinated need to wear the star of David!!!
Sorry if I missed all t his, but is that email from ISAG genuine???

https://gript.ie/revealed-how-zero-covid-activists-deceived-politicians/

https://gript.ie/israel-shares-names-unvaccinated/

Just on the list thing, Spain according to the BBC ( maybe the BBC has an agenda who knows)is creating a list of people who refuse to take the vaccine and the list will be shared with other EU states.https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55471282

Gael23

Yesterday’s drop in ICU was down to death unfortunately

Sanjuro

fits wrote: »

Gript is not a reliable news source. It’s a right wing media outlet headed by John McGuirk. I’m sure they’ll be delighted with the impact of their article.

I'd happily forgotten that cretin exists until this website was wheeled out in the last few days on boards.

plodder

plodder wrote: »

I saw the tweet posted yesterday here. The guy has 13.9K followers. I don't think they can ignore it.

Since when did the number of twitter followers become a metric to judge the relevance of someones content?

is_that_so

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Just on the list thing, Spain according to the BBC ( maybe the BBC has an agenda who knows)is creating a list of people who refuse to take the vaccine and the list will be shared with other EU states.https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55471282

The regional government have also made vaccination mandatory in Galicia.

Gael23

Could get interesting
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0225/1199178-human-rights-covid-legislation/

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Since when did the number of twitter followers become a metric to judge the relevance of someones content?

It's less about the relevance than the reach and people unthinkingly share all the time. You just need one share from a user with a large following for it to spread fast.

Jim_Hodge

Ten Covid-19 patients being treated in intensive care died in the 24 hours up to 8am yesterday.

It was the single highest daily number of Covid deaths in critical care since the pandemic began.

Hopefully we see a fall in these numbers too.

SusieBlue

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Oh please, you've been using mental health and suicide for months on this forum to try and further your own arguments so you yourself are not above using manipulative posting.

Bit rich for you to be calling others out.

You are absolutely correct that I’ve voiced my concerns for the ever worsening mental health crisis and suicide issue in this country.

But I have never ever used the death of a child to manipulate others into ‘getting some perspective’ for ‘what’s important’.
And I do think the narrative that covid deaths are worse and more sad than any other death is a dangerous one that needs to change.

plodder

Deleted User wrote: »

Since when did the number of twitter followers become a metric to judge the relevance of someones content?

It's about "publication" of the allegations from a defamation perspective. They might be wondering if they can just ignore that obscure website, but if everyone can see that nearly 14,000 people have seen them, plus whatever number are reading this website, they can't be ignored. People are likely to draw their own conclusions if they don't address the allegations.

ShyMets

D.Q wrote: »

That poster has been like readers digest for the worst possible covid news since the very start of the pandemic. Completely disingenuous.

The OP is one of the worst on this forum. Personally I haven't taken them seriously in a long time and frankly I'm amazed that some people still do

podgeandrodge

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Just on the list thing, Spain according to the BBC ( maybe the BBC has an agenda who knows)is creating a list of people who refuse to take the vaccine and the list will be shared with other EU states.https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55471282

Would be a tad uncomfortable with that tbh. If countries don't want you arriving without a vaccine, get the air carriers to require proof of vaccination. But dem lists do be bad stuff.

SusieBlue

Turtwig wrote: »

1 year into the pandemic and that's not going to happen now. It didn't happen then it's not going to happen now.

COVID never was the priority above all other matters. The problem is COVID basically cripples every single thing you seem to suggest others are not even considering. It's a bit disappointing that one year in people are still spouting the 'COVID is all they care about' canard.

Because it's actually everything else aside from COVID that they're trying to maintain. If someone in the world could propose a viable alternative I'd be all for it. Sadly, one year in, I've seen nothing. Nada. Zilch.

I completely disagree with this, there were many months up to and including this month where at least some of the economy (construction) could be opened safely, but we aren’t doing that. How exactly would opening construction cripple everything?

During the first lockdown cancer screenings were cancelled for much of it, even though the curve had long been flattened and hospitals were not under pressure at that time.
There is no reason for GP’s not to be performing smear tests at the moment, but many of them have suspended services because of level 5.
Women are having to pay privately to have it done because they cannot find a GP who will do one,

Those are just 3 examples off the top of my head.
I don’t think offering those services or opening up construction would cripple anything.
And I don’t see what other conclusion I’m supposed to come to, other than that they are intentionally doing this because they want to direct all resources and attention to the seriousness of the virus.
For context, I’m not suggesting we let it rip. But I do think there have been times up to and including today where more of a balance could have been met if common sense was applied.

plodder

plodder wrote: »

It's about "publication" of the allegations from a defamation perspective. They might be wondering if they can just ignore that obscure website, but if everyone can see that nearly 14,000 people have seen them, plus whatever number are reading this website, they can't be ignored. People are likely to draw their own conclusions if they don't address the allegations.

The reason they don't address the allegation is if they do it would be publicised widely. By not addressing it, it remains fringe.

In spite of the source, I do think there is something to be addressed. The public utterances from McConkey, Ryan and Killeen on the impact of the variants on vaccine effectiveness in particular seem coordinated to maintain a level of anxiety. Any scientist engaging in such deliberate misrepresentation needs to take a good hard look at themselves. What I think has happened is a element of groupthink has set in among the ISAG and at this stage no one wants to go against the prevailing view in the group. Zero covid had some merit as an idea not too long ago. But now with highly effective vaccines, even against new strains, it is a dead duck, or rather aims will actually be achieved through vaccination.

Gael23

Gael23 wrote: »

Yesterday’s drop in ICU was down to death unfortunately

Whether deaths or discharges the numbers are falling - eg. new cases are not being admitted at the same frequency

podgeandrodge

Deleted User wrote: »

The reason they don't address the allegation is if they do it would be publicised widely. By not addressing it, it remains fringe.

In spite of the source, I do think there is something to be addressed. The public utterances from McConkey, Ryan and Killeen on the impact of the variants on vaccine effectiveness in particular seem coordinated to maintain a level of anxiety. Any scientist engaging in such deliberate misrepresentation needs to take a good hard look at themselves. What I think has happened is a element of groupthink has set in among the ISAG and at this stage no one wants to go against the prevailing view in the group. Zero covid had some merit as an idea not too long ago. But now with highly effective vaccines, even against new strains, it is a dead duck, or rather aims will actually be achieved through vaccination.

Well there is definitely group think. Rightly or wrongly, they are so focussed on not having another lockdown like we currently have, that they don't want to exit until they are convinced that is guaranteed.

Now that is open to debate that we are unnecessarily being completely locked down to save us from another one. I'd say plenty would like sensible reductions in some restrictions coupled with the vaccinations going out, and risk a potential return.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The reason they don't address the allegation is if they do it would be publicised widely. By not addressing it, it remains fringe.

In spite of the source, I do think there is something to be addressed. The public utterances from McConkey, Ryan and Killeen on the impact of the variants on vaccine effectiveness in particular seem coordinated to maintain a level of anxiety. Any scientist engaging in such deliberate misrepresentation needs to take a good hard look at themselves. What I think has happened is a element of groupthink has set in among the ISAG and at this stage no one wants to go against the prevailing view in the group. Zero covid had some merit as an idea not too long ago. But now with highly effective vaccines, even against new strains, it is a dead duck, or rather aims will actually be achieved through vaccination.

They have blood on their hands IMO. My gran won’t take a vaccine after that trainwreck of an interview on Matt Cooper the other night in which Staines (?) said that the vaccines won’t work and we’ll soon be like Manaus. Nothing I say will convince her otherwise

timmyntc

Deleted User wrote: »

They have blood on their hands IMO. My gran won’t take a vaccine after that trainwreck of an interview on Matt Cooper the other night in which Staines (?) said that the vaccines won’t work and we’ll soon be like Manaus. Nothing I say will convince her otherwise

It is fake news - if it came out of Donald Trumps mouth people would be all over the airwaves calling him out and "fact checking" it - but for some reason these people have free reign over the airwaves and can say what they like unopposed.

Presenters should at the very least be calling them up on this **** - asking for proof at least.

plodder

Deleted User wrote: »

The reason they don't address the allegation is if they do it would be publicised widely. By not addressing it, it remains fringe.

In spite of the source, I do think there is something to be addressed. The public utterances from McConkey, Ryan and Killeen on the impact of the variants on vaccine effectiveness in particular seem coordinated to maintain a level of anxiety. Any scientist engaging in such deliberate misrepresentation needs to take a good hard look at themselves. What I think has happened is a element of groupthink has set in among the ISAG and at this stage no one wants to go against the prevailing view in the group. Zero covid had some merit as an idea not too long ago. But now with highly effective vaccines, even against new strains, it is a dead duck, or rather aims will actually be achieved through vaccination.

I see they have released some email extracts. While not quite as explosive as promised, I assume they are genuine and this ISAG crowd have really gone down a rabbit hole, and it seems pulling some of the opposition in the Dáil with them.

Sanjuro

timmyntc wrote: »

Presenters should at the very least be calling them up on this **** - asking for proof at least.

That's the problem with Irish... eh... "journalism." These TV and radio presenters are just that. They're just there to facilitate guests. Not actually challenge them. Any journalist who actually is confrontational and questions their guests gets labelled as either a bit nutty or never gets the position in the first place. Look at Sarah McInerny getting overlooked. Or Vincent Browne's entire career.

MrMusician18

SusieBlue wrote: »

I completely disagree with this, there were many months up to and including this month where at least some of the economy (construction) could be opened safely, but we aren’t doing that. How exactly would opening construction cripple everything?

During the first lockdown cancer screenings were cancelled for much of it, even though the curve had long been flattened and hospitals were not under pressure at that time.
There is no reason for GP’s not to be performing smear tests at the moment, but many of them have suspended services because of level 5.
Women are having to pay privately to have it done because they cannot find a GP who will do one,

Those are just 3 examples off the top of my head.
I don’t think offering those services or opening up construction would cripple anything.
And I don’t see what other conclusion I’m supposed to come to, other than that they are intentionally doing this because they want to direct all resources and attention to the seriousness of the virus.
For context, I’m not suggesting we let it rip. But I do think there have been times up to and including today where more of a balance could have been met if common sense was applied.

With all due respect, you are neither qualified nor have the information to credibly make that call. Aside from the first few weeks back in last March/April, you've been consistently calling for loosening of the restrictions.

The best way to get other services back is to reduce the covid burden on the health system, yet over half of the permanent ICU beds we have are filled with covid patients. Your proposal is to relax now, what do you think will happen then? What will the consequences be? It would hardly be further strain on the health system putting back access to services that you profess to care about?

Stateofyou

Deleted User wrote: »

Whether deaths or discharges the numbers are falling - eg. new cases are not being admitted at the same frequency

But are they falling at the same rate as before the new dominant variant?

Does this not point to the issue we are going to soon have with the education sector going back, and with the higher transmissibility?

The WHO (Mike Ryan) said last year that children aged 10 and older transmit and spread the virus at least as well as adults do. They recommend masks for children aged 6 and older where appropriate.

The ECDC says masks should not be worn in Primary, only children 12 and older. In the same section, they acknowledge children transmit and spread the virus and now that has increased with the new variant. They recommend strong social distancing in the schools, reduced class sizes, which is not happening. Our DES has stated no masks should be worn for primary students in their v3 2021 doc.

Starting next week and in the weeks close to follow, around 30 unmasked primary students will be sitting in the same small rooms for hours every day. Most will not even have 1m between them. Some won't have proper ventilation. Many parents will congregate regardless of new policy, as I saw DAILY before schools let out for Christmas.

And we won't even know how bad it really is. Because the definition of a close contact is different in the schools, some spread is happening unchecked. Which led to many cases being labeled as "community" in origin. Nothing has changed in this policy. There are NO new safety measures for our schools in light of the new variant.

I think this situation is absolutely bat shít crazy.

gmisk

Sanjuro wrote: »

That's the problem with Irish... eh... "journalism." These TV and radio presenters are just that. They're just there to facilitate guests. Not actually challenge them. Any journalist who actually is confrontational and questions their guests gets labelled as either a bit nutty or never gets the position in the first place. Look at Sarah McInerny getting overlooked. Or Vincent Browne's entire career.

Sarah McInerney is co host of a prime drive time slot no?
She should have 100 percent got the slot given to Claire Byrne I will concede that.

I do miss Vincent Browne though.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

But are they falling at the same rate as before the new dominant variant?

Does this not point to the issue we are going to soon have with the education sector going back, and with the higher transmissibility?

The WHO (Mike Ryan) said last year that children aged 10 and older transmit and spread the virus at least as well as adults do. They recommend masks for children aged 6 and older where appropriate.

The ECDC says masks should not be worn in Primary, only children 12 and older. In the same section, they acknowledge children transmit and spread the virus and now that has increased with the new variant. They recommend strong social distancing in the schools, reduced class sizes, which is not happening. Our DES has stated no masks should be worn for primary students in their v3 2021 doc.

Starting next week and in the weeks close to follow, around 30 unmasked primary students will be sitting in the same small rooms for hours every day. Most will not even have 1m between them. Some won't have proper ventilation. Many parents will congregate regardless of new policy, as I saw DAILY before schools let out for Christmas.

And we won't even know how bad it really is. Because the definition of a close contact is different in the schools, some spread is happening unchecked. Which led to many cases being labeled as "community" in origin. Nothing has changed in this policy. There are NO new safety measures for our schools in light of the new variant.

I think this situation is absolutely bat shít crazy.

And will continue to fall as more and more vulnerable get vaccinated, even if cases stop falling or even start to increase slowly

timmyntc

Stateofyou wrote: »

But are they falling at the same rate as before the new dominant variant?

Does this not point to the issue we are going to soon have with the education sector going back, and with the higher transmissibility?

The WHO (Mike Ryan) said last year that children aged 10 and older transmit and spread the virus at least as well as adults do. They recommend masks for children aged 6 and older where appropriate.

The ECDC says masks should not be worn in Primary, only children 12 and older. In the same section, they acknowledge children transmit and spread the virus and now that has increased with the new variant. They recommend strong social distancing in the schools, reduced class sizes, which is not happening. Our DES has stated no masks should be worn for primary students in their v3 2021 doc.

Starting next week and in the weeks close to follow, around 30 unmasked primary students will be sitting in the same small rooms for hours every day. Most will not even have 1m between them. Some won't have proper ventilation. Many parents will congregate regardless of new policy, as I saw DAILY before schools let out for Christmas.

And we won't even know how bad it really is. Because the definition of a close contact is different in the schools, some spread is happening unchecked. Which led to many cases being labeled as "community" in origin. Nothing has changed in this policy. There are NO new safety measures for our schools in light of the new variant.

I think this situation is absolutely bat shít crazy.

It's the fact that teachers and students in the same class are not classed as close contacts of confirmed case in the same class.
There is no logic behind it, and it is actively hurting our covid response and faciliating huge spread of the virus.

Try to raise it as an issue and you are dismissed or told that the spread is actually community driven (pubs/cafes/house parties)