Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

wes

Tyrone212 wrote: »

A gym owner in Buncrana has been fined 2,500 for opening his gym. Overwhelming majority of posters supporting him on Donegal Daily.

I thought he opened recently and with people being fed up were siding with him. However, he has been open since the first week of December. Stating people were asking him to open for their mental health. And he did entirely for people's mental health. Ugh.

So he was opened throughout that absolutely rife period of infection in late December/January. No excuses for that. Mental Health my hole.

Gyms are one of the worse places to open up:
C.D.C. Traces Covid Outbreaks in Gyms, Urging Stricter Precautions


Anyone opening up a gym during the height of the recent wave very likely contributed to it, and has gotten people killled. Needs to be far harsher punishments for something so blatant.

Turtwig

SusieBlue wrote: »

I completely disagree with this, there were many months up to and including this month where at least some of the economy (construction) could be opened safely, but we aren’t doing that. How exactly would opening construction cripple everything?

During the first lockdown cancer screenings were cancelled for much of it, even though the curve had long been flattened and hospitals were not under pressure at that time.
There is no reason for GP’s not to be performing smear tests at the moment, but many of them have suspended services because of level 5.
Women are having to pay privately to have it done because they cannot find a GP who will do one,

Those are just 3 examples off the top of my head.
I don’t think offering those services or opening up construction would cripple anything.
And I don’t see what other conclusion I’m supposed to come to, other than that they are intentionally doing this because they want to direct all resources and attention to the seriousness of the virus.
For context, I’m not suggesting we let it rip. But I do think there have been times up to and including today where more of a balance could have been met if common sense was applied.

Cancer services in various hospitals were cancelled during the first wave. I don't think we can disagree with them on that because it was impossible to know then what was actually coming. Since that first wave most services had resumed operation at reduced capacities until the third wave struck. Now there's uncertainty over resumption of activities everywhere.

GPs and smear tests is a more bizarre one. As the level of service, any service outside of smear, varied from GP to GP. throughout the pandemic. I can understand maybe when they were overwhelmed with COVID cased. Many weren't though and I've seen some horrific practices by some GPs that I would suggest borderline neglect towards their patients but fat chance of anything ever being done about it.

Anyway, any health resource used to service COVID is a resource that cannot at that time point in time be used to service another ailment. Even a scan of a COVID patient's lung has delayed someone's else scan.

Construction has been the sector that is open the longest. It'll be one of the first to reopen and likely would already be reopen if it wasn't for the additional challenge the new variant poses. Simply put early education is the priority and nobody knows what impact that's going to have. Hopefully none! Given how sensitive our current predicament is to having to revert back to an even longer protracted lock down it's not a risk worth taking.

Outdoor activities is the harder one. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. There's no evidence in Ireland or the UK of spread from outdoor events. That has to be taken into account with both Islands having inadequate contact tracing to be able to determine if such a spread did occur. Outdoor activities is certainly the lowest risk. If you have sufficient numbers of them though then spread will likely occur. An analogy would be the lotto: Everyone's chances of winning are miniscule. People still win the jackpot. Ireland's question is one of a very fine tuned balanced as their disease profile so high. I honestly don't know where I stand on that myself. Can see both sides of the argument.

SusieBlue wrote: »

It made me wonder why it was safe to go for a pint, get a haircut, or buy some non essential retail items in Italy (the European ground zero of covid) in May

It wasn't safe*. The biggest drivers of infections globally are restaurants, cafes and gyms. There is a constant danger of looking to what's happening in Europe when both Europe and the US monumentally fcked up their handling of this. More to the point though, the situation in one geographic region at one point in time may be markedly different to that of another e.g. Kerry vs Dublin, Ireland vs Italy. Looking at two different spots at the same period in time is counter productive. The disease profile in both could be very different. You can't even compare stats between two countries or regions unless you know all the intricate details of how the various metrics were recorded.

*Not sure about haircuts but that'd risk making this post way too long and esoteric.

Deusexmachina

nsnoefc1878 wrote: »

Maybe, but it also renders the questions you went on the ask afterwards disingenuous at best.

How can questions be disingenuous?

Rockfish

Deusexmachina wrote: »

I have no idea. Does that matter?

Yes i would think so.

hmmm

mcburns07 wrote: »

Rather than "just out of caution", wouldn't any restrictions / measures be in response to an outbreak as opposed to applied widely?

I don't know, good question. Reading what people are saying in the US they don't expect them to reach herd immunity, and instead they will tolerate a low-level of spread which will increase over Winter, and will coincide with "normal" flu season. Even with a vaccine you don't get 100% protection. It doesn't sound like we should expect lockdowns, but we might see limits on the numbers who can gather indoors in certain situations.

Rockfish

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Where is the link? I would have thought it reasonable to support protest against draconian lockdown measures while not being 'right wing' and/or 'anti-foreigner'?

I have no time for fascist loopers - genuinely want to know what is behind this reporting

Supporting or taking part in the protests isnt right wing but generally the people behind them usually are.

marno21

Paul Reid unhappy with people out and about

If he’s unhappy with the amount of people out and about during weather warnings he’d better prepare himself for the amount out and about during dry sunny weather.

CIARAN_BOYLE

hmmm wrote: »

Not quite that simple. Chris Whitty in the UK has said he thinks restrictions may be needed over Winter
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-some-covid-restrictions-could-return-next-winter-chief-medical-officer-warns-12180133

US experts are saying the same
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/2021-01-08-covid-live-updates-vaccine-news-n1253431/ncrd1253481#blogHeader

We might need some restrictions next Winter just out of caution - I'm expecting people may be encouraged to work at home, not go to work if sick,

Personally that would be a cultural change I would appreciate.

Speaking as someone who worked 60 hours in 4 days with a bad flu due a deadline quiet a few years ago. Then when I handed the competed project to my boss he told me there was a taxi outside to bring me to A&E. That's something I am never doing again and I hope no one will ever be expected to do in the future.

titan18

Turtwig wrote: »

It's very concerning especially when you consider how much certain services were curtailed.

Actually wish this was done properly. With a thorough analysis of how mental health is impacted. Self reported surveys are not reliable for this. At all. Given the seriousness of the potential impact to mental health. The CSO can't be faulted here, they've done their part but really in truly the government needs to get their head out of their asses and organise proper in-depth research into the mental health of the nation.

Background depression rate (1 in 4) hasn't changed so at least that's consistent? But having people self identify as depressed is kind of pointless. All that tells is us pretty much everyone feels crap. The government can easily brush that aside due to the situation we're in. We need a thorough screening done of a random sample of the population like a seroprevalence test to assess our actual mental health and the level of service required.

I go to some of the public mental health services and was there last week, and it was a lot busier than it was the last few times I had been. They had to delay my next appointment longer than usual too due to the numbers they're seeing they said.

Tork

marno21 wrote: »

Paul Reid unhappy with people out and about

If he’s unhappy with the amount of people out and about during weather warnings he’d better prepare himself for the amount out and about during dry sunny weather.

I'd prefer if he and his comrades were bursting their balls to lay their hands on as many spare vaccines as they can, and to roll them out as quickly as humanly possible. Just look at how Denmark nipped in and got their hands on a load of extra vaccines.

Turtwig

Tork wrote: »

I'd prefer if he and his comrades were bursting their balls to lay their hands on as many spare vaccines as they can, and to roll them out as quickly as humanly possible. Just look at how Denmark nipped in and got their hands on a load of extra vaccines.

When will Denmark be able to avail of these extra vaccines?

is_that_so

marno21 wrote: »

Paul Reid unhappy with people out and about

If he’s unhappy with the amount of people out and about during weather warnings he’d better prepare himself for the amount out and about during dry sunny weather.

Did he state this or was it in answer to a question?

nsnoefc1878

Deusexmachina wrote: »

How can questions be disingenuous?

You claimed, wrongly that the indo was calling the protests insidious.
I think that could quite easily be classed as disingenuous.

And thats giving you the benefit of the doubt.

timmyntc

wes wrote: »

Gyms are one of the worse places to open up:
C.D.C. Traces Covid Outbreaks in Gyms, Urging Stricter Precautions


Anyone opening up a gym during the height of the recent wave very likely contributed to it, and has gotten people killled. Needs to be far harsher punishments for something so blatant.

Did you even read your article?

Outbreaks were linked to gyms with no rules on masks or distancing.
Subheading of that article: "Coronavirus cases at fitness centers in Chicago and Honolulu were linked to carelessness about masks and symptoms, federal health officials found."

It does not say that gyms are the worst place to open up. Pure hyperbole from yourself

Tork

Turtwig wrote: »

When will Denmark be able to avail of these extra vaccines?

Looks like they already have them. Sorry...copy and paste not working too well on my phone today

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/covid-19-how-denmark-plans-to-finish-vaccinating-by-june-27th-1.4492192

Tyrone212

timmyntc wrote: »

Fair play to him.
Unless you think 1 gym being open contributed to the entire surge? :rolleyes:

That's an exceptionally thick take on things. Luckily not every gym owner was as reckless staying open in late December and January as him.

firemansam4

timmyntc wrote: »

Fair play to him.
Unless you think 1 gym being open contributed to the entire surge? :rolleyes:

Seriously with attitudes like this no wonder we had the mess after Christmas...

It was this and many other incidents like this of businesses blatantly disregarding public health measures that helped bring about the massive surge in cases after Christmas.

So you say fair play to him for doing that, do you also say fair play to all of the other people and businesses that broke the rules which contributed to the massive spike in deaths after Christmas?

Salvation Tambourine

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The terms around poor mental health have become seriously debased as campaigning and grifting around the issue has become more fashionable.

People are clearly self reporting as depressed, when it's clear that they are not really, at least not clinically. Being fed up/bored and unhappy is not in and of itself "poor mental health"

Most people haven't ever thought hard about their own mental health or have ever endured such a long period of restrictions to their lives. I can honestly say that (aside from bereavements etc.) I have never, ever in my life felt as low as I have during this lockdown. I have not lost financially, I've not had anyone die, the last six months I've had the joy of having my first child and watching her grow, I'm one of the lucky ones.

However, there is absolutely no doubt that these lockdowns have had a massive negative impact on my mental health. We are constantly been told that 'it's okay not to be okay', we are constantly told to talk and share our worries and fears. I would like to think you don't have to be clinically depressed in order to seek help or talk to people about your poor mental health.

runawaybishop

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Where is the link? I would have thought it reasonable to support protest against draconian lockdown measures while not being 'right wing' and/or 'anti-foreigner'?

I have no time for fascist loopers - genuinely want to know what is behind this reporting

Ben Gilroy is involved. He is all of the above. Not only that, he's directly responsible for giving people terrible advice that could cause them to incur legal penalties, including prison. He has been held in contempt of court numerous times and is legally banned from providing legal advice.

To top it off he is an anti-eviction and anti-landlord protester, while also being a shady landlord himself. He's involved, perhaps personally I can't remember, in illegal evictions for property owned by him or his mates.
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40231952.html%3ftype=amp

Turtwig

I'm probably going to regret asking:

Did gript actually produce any evidence of their claims about ISAG?

CoronaBlocker

Deusexmachina wrote: »

The portrayal of Boris as a 'spoofer' is wearing thin.......

More than 18 million people in the UK have received at least one dose of a coronavirus vaccine - part of the biggest inoculation programme the country has ever launched. The number of first doses administered each day had been steadily climbing since December - reaching more than 400,000 a day mid-February.(BBC)

Ireland vaccines administered to date 359,616 (as of today)

Luke O'Neill said this morning that his infamous non-essential jaunt up to Scotland last week was actually to a plant of a new vaccine producing company where he signed another monster deal for vaccines - so once again wiping the eye of the EU (because it's actually a French company). He's far from the fool he is oft cited as being.

Pamela Anderson once said she's happy if everyone thinks she's a bimbo because it means it's a much easier situation in which she can operate her business.

When people expect less they get complacent and you can surprise more. A good insight.

And what does this mean for the EU?

Eod100

Good news here https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1364976431076433927?s=19

Coybig_

UL president announces a 100 euro fine for somebody caught leaving their home without a valid excuse.

UL are funding gardai patrols in housing estates near the campus.

This is disgraceful. I notice they are refusing to patrol quarantine hotels, but the students are a soft touch. Civil liberties, what are those? Who the absolute f*ck do they think they are?

stephenjmcd

Coybig_ wrote: »

UL president announces a 100 euro fine for somebody caught leaving their home without a valid excuse.

UL are funding gardai patrols in housing estates near the campus.

This is disgraceful. I notice they are refusing to patrol quarantine hotels, but the students are a soft touch. Civil liberties, what are those? Who the absolute f*ck do they think they are?

UL president actually announced that they'll fund the Garda patrols which are on campus and in the immediate facility, if you request Gardai for additional work you pay the overtime, same as sporting organisation pay the overtime for matches, the fines are the same fines that are legislated for as it is. Sure if your stopped at a checkpoint for a non essential reason it's a €100 fine. Your portraying it that UL are issuing the fine.

The patrols are on public property, the hotels are private property which Gardai would require a warrant to enter unless a crime is being committed.

It's literally making sure guidelines are being adhered to, same as every other checkpoint you come across or any patrols in public areas.

What's the issue here ?

Coybig_

stephenjmcd wrote: »

UL president actually announced that they'll fund the Garda patrols, the fines are the same fines that are legislated for as it is. Sure if your stopped at a checkpoint for a non essential reason it's a €100 fine.

The patrols are on public property, the hotels are private property which Gardai would require a warrant to enter unless a crime is being committed.

What's the issue here ?

The issue here is young people being harassed if they dare to leave the house. The issue is gardai driving around housing estates watching peoples front doors. How can you think this is acceptable?

CoronaBlocker

Coybig_ wrote: »

UL president announces a 100 euro fine for somebody caught leaving their home without a valid excuse.

UL are funding gardai patrols in housing estates near the campus.

This is disgraceful. I notice they are refusing to patrol quarantine hotels, but the students are a soft touch. Civil liberties, what are those? Who the absolute f*ck do they think they are?

Loose talk of vaccine certificates/passports, handy on-the-spot fines, open talk of restrictions up-to and including next winter in government documents... we need to be very careful now of letting what is important today - for health reasons - not become normal tomorrow after the health crisis has abated. As vaccines roll out further we need to be mindful that all of these emergency restrictions need to be clawed back and struck off the books.

It's a good time to keep the eyes open.

stephenjmcd

Coybig_ wrote: »

The issue here is young people being harassed if they dare to leave the house. The issue is gardai driving around housing estates watching peoples front doors. How can you think this is acceptable?

Ah come on that's not what is happening.

Every person in the country is subject to the same legislation. If you or I leave the house for a non essential reason and get stopped we're open to a fine, no difference here now is there ?

As with every Garda checkpoint they use their discretion when it comes to fines.

seamus

Nobody's talking about harrassing young people for leaving their house. Quit with the hyperbole.

giveitholly

Coybig_ wrote: »

UL president announces a 100 euro fine for somebody caught leaving their home without a valid excuse.

UL are funding gardai patrols in housing estates near the campus.

This is disgraceful. I notice they are refusing to patrol quarantine hotels, but the students are a soft touch. Civil liberties, what are those? Who the absolute f*ck do they think they are?

Well if you heard the UL students yesterday evening on radio 1 drivetime you might have a different opinion. Students didn't care and were meeting up in groups of 10-15 in houses,couldn't see anything wrong with this. Plus also larger house parties going on as well. Most students who spoke didn't care if they got Covid because the chances of them getting sick is minuscule(according to them).

CruelSummer

Turtwig wrote: »

I'm probably going to regret asking:

Did gript actually produce any evidence of their claims about ISAG?

They've provided screenshots to internal e-mail conversations among the group on what they're planning, strategy's and how to do whatever it takes to further their own agenda - fact or not.

Here is their latest article regarding the media and Róisín Shortall - so disappointed in the Opposition of this country that they'd just row in with a bunch of extremists.

https://gript.ie/zeroleaks-on-their-media-friends-matt-cooper-tries-to-look-impartial/

However what I find the most disturbing - is the neglect of any media outlets in which they've appeared on since to question them about this. Or about anything to do with their strategy full of holes.
The gall of Anthony Staines to tweet that Luke O'Neil is a 'brave man' when he tweeted vaccine information today shows they're in bed with our mainstream media outlets. The lunatics have indeed taken over the asylum.

P.S. Gript is not an organisation I would follow or promote normally, but they're the ones with the evidence here and members of ISAG plus mainstream media should be questioned about their behaviour.