Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

Dermot224

lawred2 wrote: »

And?

Just saying its might not be schools thats help spread the covid. Could be people gathering for football matches and bringing it home to their families. That's all

lee_baby_simms

Arghus wrote: »

In no way was it like that. That's entirely OTT hyperbole.

How is it different? Glynn linked these stillbirths to an extremely rare complication without any confirmation whatsoever.

Do you not think that’s OTT?

CIARAN_BOYLE

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

How is it different? Glynn linked these stillbirths to an extremely rare complication without any confirmation whatsoever.

Do you not think that’s OTT?

He said it was being investigated as he was asked the question.

He made reassuring comments that it was very rare at most and shouldn't be a problem. He then referred anyone with concerns to their specialist.

Amirani

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

How is it different? Glynn linked these stillbirths to an extremely rare complication without any confirmation whatsoever.

Do you not think that’s OTT?

He said exactly the same thing that the Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists said.

They're best placed here to decide what's OTT or not.

Away With The Fairies

Depressing watching Great American Railroad Journey on rte2. Reminds me of holidays I took in America. I just want holidays back.

lee_baby_simms

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

He said it was being investigated as he was asked the question.

He made reassuring comments that it was very rare at most and shouldn't be a problem. He then referred anyone with concerns to their specialist.

What you’re saying is fine, procedurally, but it’s completely unethical in the context of how the media work and how people only read headlines. The public never see the retractions.

That’s my simple point in all of this. The info could have easily been withheld for the few days that it would take to actually confirm.

But it wasn’t. I feel that this was discussed and put out there intentionally. This is based on NPHETS previous form.

Arghus

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

How is it different? Glynn linked these stillbirths to an extremely rare complication without any confirmation whatsoever.

Do you not think that’s OTT?

He was asked a direct question about whether he was aware about this being included in a preliminary coroner's report.

He said he was aware, because to say different would have been a lie, and then stressed how these reports should be treated with caution because they were only preliminary - he literally said these reports should be treated with caution - explained what the condition was, explained how utterly rare it is and stressed how positive the experience of maternity care and outcomes have been for the vast majority of patients etc.

He went out of his way to explain the context and to outline the true, negligible, level of risk posed by the issue. I was able to understand that very clearly from the way he spoke, because he spoke with absolute clarity. You seem to be inferring that pregnant women, as a result of their condition, can not follow a reasoned argument and draw their own logical conclusions.

It's entirely ridiculous to conflate one thing with the other as you have done.

agoodpunt

KrustyUCC wrote: »

539 cases today

738 cases this day last week

Very good progress this week

fingers crossed we can keep this going

Doesnt fkcu-ing matter lockdown is the only game in town i dont watch rte anymore dont belive stats from NPET stand these cukfs down construcion hairdresser, and non essential shopping open now zero live as you always done dont make us do same

lee_baby_simms

Arghus wrote: »

He was asked a direct question about whether he was aware about this being included in a preliminary coroner's report.

He said he was aware, because to say different would have been a lie, and then stressed how these reports should be treated with caution because they were only preliminary - he literally said these reports should be treated with caution - explained what the condition was, explained how utterly rare it is and stressed how positive the experience of maternity care and outcomes have been for the vast majority of patients etc.

He went out of his way to explain the context and to outline the true, negligible, level of risk posed by the issue. I was able to understand that very clearly from the way he spoke, because he spoke with absolute clarity. You seem to be inferring that pregnant women, as a result of their condition, can not follow a reasoned argument and draw their own logical conclusions.

It's entirely ridiculous to conflate one thing with the other as you have done.

Yeah look we’re going to have to agree to disagree. I think this could have been handled entirely differently.

lee_baby_simms

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Tony Holohan has publicly stated how he is “concerned about fear levels in the community.”

The "worry" chart will be produced again if the plebs start behaving like normal human beings, heaven forfend. I'm concerned about imbalance in salaries between those at the top making decisions, and those on the receiving end of those decisions. We're all this in this together, to paraphrase another poster (credit where it's due) "some have yachts, others are paddling kayaks and the rest are drowning".

Natterjack from Kerry

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm concerned about imbalance in salaries between those at the top making decisions, and those on the receiving end of those decisions.

The salaries imbalance would be consistent with the fact that those at the top are those most capable of making decisions and in the best interest of those at the receiving end of those decisions who are less competent to make them.

themacattack.

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

The salaries imbalance would be consistent with the fact that those at the top are those most capable of making decisions and in the best interest of those at the receiving end of those decisions who are less competent to make them.

wow...know your place people...big wages for big brains...little wages for little pea-brains...understood sir

Arghus

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Yeah look we’re going to have to agree to disagree. I think this could have been handled entirely differently.

I'm quite happy to drop it but the final thing I'll say is - anyone who took on board what Ronan Glynn actually said would be of no doubt that the issue was (A) not confirmed and (B) vanishingly rare.

The media could have absolutely reported on this in a completely different manner - RTE, in particular, were quite irresponsible with how they led with that figure of "4 still birthes" - but I can't hold Ronan Glynn liable for that - considering he absolutely preached caution and downplayed jumping to conclusions about these reports.

Critique NPHET and Glynn all you want, but I don't this charge is fair or warranted in this context.

lee_baby_simms

Arghus wrote: »

I'm quite happy to drop it but the final thing I'll say is - anyone who took on board what Ronan Glynn actually said would be of no doubt that the issue was (A) not confirmed and (B) vanishingly rare.

The media could have absolutely reported on this in a completely different manner - RTE, in particular, were quite irresponsible with how they led with that figure of "4 stillbirthes" - but I can't hold Ronan Glynn liable for that - considering he absolutely preached caution and downplayed jumping to conclusions about these reports.

Critique NPHET and Glynn all you want, but I don't this charge is fair or warranted in this context.

Sure, what you’re saying sounds reasonable and is probably in line with procedure but my point is that NPHET aren’t wet behind the ears, they knew exactly how this would play out with media.

I think they could have assessed the potential impact of this information and withheld until they could confirm.

Anyway I’ve no interest in getting into a circular argument as I’m sure you are, I’m opening a bottle of wine.

Leftwaffe

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

The salaries imbalance would be consistent with the fact that those at the top are those most capable of making decisions and in the best interest of those at the receiving end of those decisions who are less competent to make them.

Sickening statement to me.

Natterjack from Kerry

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Sickening statement to me.

What, you think you could put a high level team of specialists together to manage a public health emergency pandemic for minimum wage, and their analysis and advice would be as good as the current NPHET ?

Strumms

News tonight.. my girlfriends sister n law has been diagnosed for the second time with Covid, she is a mother two girls, 2 and 8....

My girlfriend lost her Dad when she was 9 in a car crash and now she is worried about her brother, and nieces... she asked Elaine on the phone where she thought she contracted it... “ ohhh could have been anywhere, out and about and erm we had people over for dinner “... at that point my girlfriend just hung up the phone on her, which isn’t at all like her she’d be the kind to try work things out..

But she’s sick of trying to manage the people she loves...

Her mother has been shîte from the get go although has calmed down a bit... now this...

Natterjack from Kerry

themacattack. wrote: »

wow...know your place people...big wages for big brains...little wages for little pea-brains...understood sir

Well there is no need to be quite that crude about it, but still, broadly, yes.

TheDoctor

Hospital numbers at 8pm

Total 416 (up from 401 last night)
ICU 102 (up from 99 last night).

Last Saturday
Total 551
ICU 132

Leftwaffe

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

What, you think you could put a high level team of specialists together to manage a public health emergency pandemic for minimum wage, and their analysis and advice would be as good as the current NPHET ?

Total dismissal when it comes to the intelligence of the ordinary people whilst also displaying total ignorance to the utter incompetence of those who are making the decisions.

political analyst

Strumms wrote: »

News tonight.. my girlfriends sister n law has been diagnosed for the second time with Covid, she is a mother two girls, 2 and 8....

My girlfriend lost her Dad when she was 9 in a car crash and now she is worried about her brother, and nieces... she asked Elaine on the phone where she thought she contracted it... “ ohhh could have been anywhere, out and about and erm we had people over for dinner “... at that point my girlfriend just hung up the phone on her, which isn’t at all like her she’d be the kind to try work things out..

But she’s sick of trying to manage the people she loves...

Her mother has been shîte from the get go although has calmed down a bit... now this...

Do her brother and nieces have underlying health problems?

Her brother's wife can't be the only person to blame for having people over in the house for dinner - which probably wouldn't have happened if the brother didn't want it.

mollser

Arghus wrote: »

I'm quite happy to drop it but the final thing I'll say is - anyone who took on board what Ronan Glynn actually said would be of no doubt that the issue was (A) not confirmed and (B) vanishingly rare.

The media could have absolutely reported on this in a completely different manner - RTE, in particular, were quite irresponsible with how they led with that figure of "4 stillbirthes" - but I can't hold Ronan Glynn liable for that - considering he absolutely preached caution and downplayed jumping to conclusions about these reports.

Critique NPHET and Glynn all you want, but I don't this charge is fair or warranted in this context.

Why did they include them in the death numbers and age range 0 to 91 then? Given they're not confirmed that's the height of irresponsibility and casts doubt on their death stats, they knew what they were doing 100%.

User1998

Would it not be reasonable to expect cases to plateau around next week? Didn’t cases begin to rise again last time despite level 5 lockdown, wasn’t it 400 or so cases and it just wouldn’t go down any further? Hard to see us getting below that level again considering schools are open/opening, loads of construction open, population sick of restrictions, still no mandatory quarantine, work places telling workers to come back to the office etc?

Curious_Case

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

The salaries imbalance would be consistent with the fact that those at the top are those most capable of making decisions and in the best interest of those at the receiving end of those decisions who are less competent to make them.

Completely agree, I've always had great respect for a decent suit, a nice smell, well groomed appearance and a good address.

I mean, it's not like they're superficial social climbers or anything.

Uniforms too, I wish I was worthy of one.

ShineOn7

Strumms wrote: »

News tonight.. my girlfriends sister n law has been diagnosed for the second time with Covid, she is a mother two girls, 2 and 8....

If you don't work in a hospital or other medical settings, that is so, so rare

So I'm guessing she's been very flagrant with the rules since the get go

Strumms

political analyst wrote: »

Do her brother and nieces have underlying health problems?

Her brother's wife can't be the only person to blame for having people over in the house for dinner - which probably wouldn't have happened if the brother didn't want it.

The brother is equally to blame absolutely, nobody is just blaming his wife.....

Underlying health problems don’t come into it, level 5 restrictions do however..

Strumms

ShineOn7 wrote: »

If you don't work in a hospital or other medical settings, that is so, so rare

So I'm guessing she's been very flagrant with the rules since the get go

She is a stay at home Mum, her husband a lawyer... at the beginning he due to being a junior partner in a pretty successful law firm with very high profile clients was being hassled to come into work, ‘meet’ clients etc... that’s the way it had been done, client is king etc.. :rolleyes:

political analyst

Strumms wrote: »

The brother is equally to blame absolutely, nobody is just blaming his wife.....

Underlying health problems don’t come into it, level 5 restrictions do however..

Do they have severe symptoms?

If people we care about are OK with taking the risk of being infected then why should we be angry about it?

Strumms

political analyst wrote: »

Do they have severe symptoms?

If people we care about are OK with taking the risk of being infected then why should we be angry about it?

Symptoms are not severe but not mild...

We should be angry because my girlfriend is at her wits end, she loves them all to bits.. we should be angry because if you catch covid due to your own negligence and shîttyness you are putting the health and wellbeing of more than yourself at risk.. the family of my girlfriend have been through enough tragedy the last 15 years with her Dad dying in an accident...

Now this pair with two young kids in the house are inviting friends over, during a pandemic, absolute muppetville.. and catching it twice...

Can’t blame any lack of intelligence, both are lawyers.

User142

User1998 wrote: »

Would it not be reasonable to expect cases to plateau around next week? Didn’t cases begin to rise again last time despite level 5 lockdown, wasn’t it 400 or so cases and it just wouldn’t go down any further? Hard to see us getting below that level again considering schools are open/opening, loads of construction open, population sick of restrictions, still no mandatory quarantine, work places telling workers to come back to the office etc?

Once the government announces that its made it through the vulnerable group I can see cases creeping up again.

Arghus

mollser wrote: »

Why did they include them in the death numbers and age range 0 to 91 then? Given they're not confirmed that's the height of irresponsibility and casts doubt on their death stats, they knew what they were doing 100%.

I don't know who exactly included them in exactly what report - but whoever it was, who I presume is a professional that has expertise in the field, felt that the cases were deemed worthy of further investigation.

Now, perhaps it isn't unreasonable to suggest that those deaths shouldn't have been included until final confirmation was got one way or the other. But it isn't unusual for prelimary and clinically unconfirmed deaths to be included in preliminary death figures and then to be de-notified if necessary in time - this is not a new feature of how deaths have been reported throughout the pandemic.

To the best of my knowledge it isn't NPHET themselves who collate these figures, but the HPSC - I'm open to correction here. According to Glynn NPHET hadn't even discussed the issue at their previous meeting.

political analyst

Strumms wrote: »

Symptoms are not severe but not mild...

We should be angry because my girlfriend is at her wits end, she loves them all to bits.. we should be angry because if you catch covid due to your own negligence and shîttyness you are putting the health and wellbeing of more than yourself at risk.. the family of my girlfriend have been through enough tragedy the last 15 years with her Dad dying in an accident...

Now this pair with two young kids in the house are inviting friends over, during a pandemic, absolute muppetville.. and catching it twice...

Can’t blame any lack of intelligence, both are lawyers.

Surely, her brother must also have been devastated by their father's death.

'Not severe but not mild' is a description that is applicable to some cases to the flu. If they don't have severe symptoms then they won't die.

Strumms

political analyst wrote: »

Surely, her brother must also have been devastated by their father's death.

'Not severe but not mild' is a description that is applicable to some cases to the flu. If they don't have severe symptoms then they won't die.

Very likely, but he’s disregarding everyone else feelings re: his behavior.

They are not expected to die no... this however does not grant them a hall pass or justify and excuse behavior like they have exhibited...

political analyst

Strumms wrote: »

Very likely, but he’s disregarding everyone else feelings re: his behavior.

They are not expected to die no... this however does not grant them a hall pass or justify and excuse behavior like they have exhibited...

It'll probably be water under the bridge by the summer. The Italian government is far more to blame because it failed to prevent its citizens from travelling to Ireland even when the rugby match had been cancelled. Furthermore, the British government let a rugby match and the Cheltenham races take place.

micar

Dermot224 wrote: »

Was in the park today. 20 plus over 40's playing football.

Was out running....went into a field with a few pitches .....Full blown match going on

Zero ****s given

On a positive note.....my dad got a call from his GP at 12.20 to organise his first vaccine jab which he got less than 1 hour later.

Goldengirl

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Total dismissal when it comes to the intelligence of the ordinary people whilst also displaying total ignorance to the utter incompetence of those who are making the decisions.

Seriously ?
This reply shows that the country would be 100% safe in some people's hands ..:

Of course we need experts advising , it's silly to say otherwise .
I might think that my neighbour who is a fireman is the most sensible person and a good organiser, but that doesn't mean I would think him competent to advise others during a public health crisis, no reflection on firemen , I could have picked any job .
Scientists are trained to apply logic and reason .
It's the buffoons we have elected that are the main problem here for the last 9 or 10 months .
Many of them seem to have left any common sense or logic that they may have acquired in a previous life at the door of the Dáil .

Stateofyou

micar wrote: »

Was out running....went into a field with a few pitches .....Full blown match going on

Zero ****s given

On a positive note.....my dad got a call from his GP at 12.20 to organise his first vaccine jab which he got less than 1 hour later.

I had an (essential) errand today and on the way there/back I saw numerous packs of older teens and adults gathering in fairly large groups and passed a few pitches with matches/practice going on also. The large town I was headed to was wedged as it would be in normal times traffic wise. In a smaller village I passed the footpaths were very busy and full of groups of older adults and packs of women walking together with coffee's. I honestly couldn't believe my eyes. We live rurally and have two older primary school children not back yet, so we've been nowhere but the local food shop. It was a shock tbh.

Goldengirl

Stateofyou wrote: »

I had an (essential) errand today and on the way there/back I saw numerous packs of older teens and adults gathering in fairly large groups and passed a few pitches with matches/practice going on also. The large town I was headed to was wedged as it would be in normal times traffic wise. In a smaller village I passed the footpaths were very busy and full of groups of older adults and packs of women walking together with coffee's. I honestly couldn't believe my eyes. We live rurally and have two older primary school children not back yet, so we've been nowhere but the local food shop. It was a shock tbh.

Out walking in what is a major park in Dublin around sunset.
A few groups of teens with boxes of cans around , but it was a lot quieter than I have seen yesterday, for example .
Would say a lot of people are travelling for work as well as heading out to get takeaway food at the end of the week causing surges now and then .

Natterjack from Kerry

Goldengirl wrote: »

It's the buffoons we have elected that are the main problem here for the last 9 or 10 months .
Many of them seem to have left any common sense or logic that they may have acquired in a previous life at the door of the Dáil .

The quality of the elected reflects the quality of the electors.

I would say the elected have done a rather good job. They can only be judged against their peers in similar circumstances. Not against what ideally we might like to have happened. On balance, we benefitted from having a govt that truly believed itself going out of government for the early part, and some pretty sensible people at the helm since then.I would count Donnelly among them, despite appearing a shodow of Harris, but that is more PR gaffe and poor communication than the real substance of getting the job done.

Leftwaffe

Donnelly? Good night folks. Enough for one day.

Natterjack from Kerry

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Donnelly? Good night folks. Enough for one day.

He puts a lot of people off, and the management consultant speak and accent does make him come across as a prat. But we arent paying him to be a showman. The substance is there behind that.

thebronze14

Stateofyou wrote: »

I had an (essential) errand today and on the way there/back I saw numerous packs of older teens and adults gathering in fairly large groups and passed a few pitches with matches/practice going on also. The large town I was headed to was wedged as it would be in normal times traffic wise. In a smaller village I passed the footpaths were very busy and full of groups of older adults and packs of women walking together with coffee's. I honestly couldn't believe my eyes. We live rurally and have two older primary school children not back yet, so we've been nowhere but the local food shop. It was a shock tbh.

Is it really that much of a shock to hear of people out socialising outside? Being honest I'd imagine most people are meeting up with others to a small extent at least. For someone so disgusted you did a lot of travelling between pitches, large towns, small villages and the likes;)

Tyrone212

Read earlier the government hopes to have all over 70s vaccinate by mid May...that can't be right surely? Seems incredibly slow.

thebronze14

thebronze14 wrote: »

Is it really that much of a shock to hear of people out socialising outside? Being honest I'd imagine most people are meeting up with others to a small extent at least. For someone so disgusted you did a lot of travelling between pitches, large towns, small villages and the likes;)

A year on and I'm shocked at others shock As long as there are humans you will have meeting up and groups and togetherness.

Wolf359f

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Read earlier the government hopes to have all over 70s vaccinate by mid May...that can't be right surely? Seems incredibly slow.

Where did you read it? The timeline changes so fast, it would be nice to see the updated schedule.

Plumbthedepths

Stateofyou wrote: »

I had an (essential) errand today and on the way there/back I saw numerous packs of older teens and adults gathering in fairly large groups and passed a few pitches with matches/practice going on also. The large town I was headed to was wedged as it would be in normal times traffic wise. In a smaller village I passed the footpaths were very busy and full of groups of older adults and packs of women walking together with coffee's. I honestly couldn't believe my eyes. We live rurally and have two older primary school children not back yet, so we've been nowhere but the local food shop. It was a shock tbh.

Don't worry you were outside, they were outside. Only so long people can lock themselves away for before they need interaction with others. You're going to be really shocked when the weather improves.

DellyBelly

Stateofyou wrote: »

I had an (essential) errand today and on the way there/back I saw numerous packs of older teens and adults gathering in fairly large groups and passed a few pitches with matches/practice going on also. The large town I was headed to was wedged as it would be in normal times traffic wise. In a smaller village I passed the footpaths were very busy and full of groups of older adults and packs of women walking together with coffee's. I honestly couldn't believe my eyes. We live rurally and have two older primary school children not back yet, so we've been nowhere but the local food shop. It was a shock tbh.

I hope you called the garda and let them know. We have similar issues especially with teenagers around us and I always call the guards. Actually had neighbours down our road who had a party a few weeks back. I was so feckin angry I reported them as well.. Its the only way to get these gobsh*tes to follow the restrictions..

jackboy

Stateofyou wrote: »

I had an (essential) errand today and on the way there/back I saw numerous packs of older teens and adults gathering in fairly large groups and passed a few pitches with matches/practice going on also. The large town I was headed to was wedged as it would be in normal times traffic wise. In a smaller village I passed the footpaths were very busy and full of groups of older adults and packs of women walking together with coffee's. I honestly couldn't believe my eyes. We live rurally and have two older primary school children not back yet, so we've been nowhere but the local food shop. It was a shock tbh.

That’s great to hear. This sort of thing should be actively encouraged as the risk of spreading the virus outdoors is tiny.

Jane1012

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

How is it bizarre? Are you a pregnant woman? Sleep well the other night did you?

I am 4 months pregnant and terrified of getting covid anyway (as I’m high risk for another reason) but for some reason the announcement of the preliminary data did not upset me the way I thought it would.
To be honest, I kind of feel like pregnant women will be somewhat considered more in the vaccination and protection against covid. I will be getting the vaccine when it’s my turn due to risk factors, but all other pregnant women have been thrown to the bottom of the pile. I rang HSE vaccination line a few days ago to ask a question and was straight away told pregnant women can’t be vaccinated. I then had to educate the person on the line that they were completely wrong and many pregnant healthcare workers have already been vaccinated and many high risk will be too.

If they didn’t report this and simply told women it’s all fine you live your life as normal and it came out later that they knew there was an additional risk then there would be uproar.

lawred2

DellyBelly wrote: »

I hope you called the garda and let them know. We have similar issues especially with teenagers around us and I always call the guards. Actually had neighbours down our road who had a party a few weeks back. I was so feckin angry I reported them as well.. Its the only way to get these gobsh*tes to follow the restrictions..

This is depressing

Whatever about the party but ringing the guards about teenagers meeting up outside...