General race thread 2021 **spoilers**

mr spuckler

A win for Cavendish in Turkey, beating Philipsen!

https://www.stickybottle.com/races-results/cavendish-roars-back-to-the-top-with-brilliant-win-in-turkey-video/

breezy1985

mr spuckler wrote: »

A win for Cavendish in Turkey, beating Philipsen!

https://www.stickybottle.com/races-results/cavendish-roars-back-to-the-top-with-brilliant-win-in-turkey-video/

Wow. I didn't think he would ever get near a win again

CramCycle

The commentary, jebus, I am starting to think one of the ES commentators is declining mentally, forgets names, locations, pronunciations.
ES: Cavendish is out.
(I am watching him in the train),
ES: he got knocked out.
(me still watching him as he is in about 6th, 300m from the line).
ES: Oh wait there he is
(he never f*cking left)

sy

Fair play to Cav. It's been a tough few years but he never gave up. Impressive win, all that experience makes such a difference in those split second decisions. (Sam now going to be his lead out man in the Tour! )

Weepsie

2 Irish guys at the Tour of Turkey, or at least declared for Ireland/ Irish registered/ parentage. Cormac McGeough from the wonderfully named Snoqualmie, Washington and Jesse Ewart from Australia. Both on Continental teams.

Weepsie

And Cavendish does it again. That was excellent. Played Greipel brilliantly. Shane Archebold with some great work in there too.

mr spuckler

Weepsie wrote: »

And Cavendish does it again. That was excellent. Played Greipel brilliantly. Shane Archebold with some great work in there too.

Nice swerve from Griepel's lead out man to disrupt Philipsen there too.

harringtonp

sy wrote: »

Fair play to Cav. It's been a tough few years but he never gave up. Impressive win, all that experience makes such a difference in those split second decisions. (Sam now going to be his lead out man in the Tour! )

DQS have a nice problem to solve. A revitalised Cavendish will generate huge interest

breezy1985

harringtonp wrote: »

DQS have a nice problem to solve. A revitalised Cavendish will generate huge interest

It's a tough one given they are already going with 2 leaders. I don't see him going but I have been wrong about Cavendish a lot recently

retalivity

Is evanepoel back riding? Any chance of him at the tour as well?

mr spuckler

retalivity wrote: »

Is evanepoel back riding? Any chance of him at the tour as well?

He's due to ride the Giro for now anyway.

CramCycle

breezy1985 wrote: »

It's a tough one given they are already going with 2 leaders. I don't see him going but I have been wrong about Cavendish a lot recently

Based on your predictions, I'd lay a few quid on him to wear a points jersey in at least one of the big three this year :pac:

Brian?

harringtonp wrote: »

DQS have a nice problem to solve. A revitalised Cavendish will generate huge interest

No they don't. Cav beat some second tier sprinters in Turkey. Bennett is defending the green jersey and is the fastest finisher in the world.

I doubt Cav makes the tour team.

breezy1985

Brian? wrote: »

No they don't. Cav beat some second tier sprinters in Turkey. Bennett is defending the green jersey and is the fastest finisher in the world.

I doubt Cav makes the tour team.

Could make it if he is willing to work for Sam but I don't think he could be trusted not to chase Mercks record

griffin100

Brian? wrote: »

No they don't. Cav beat some second tier sprinters in Turkey. Bennett is defending the green jersey and is the fastest finisher in the world.

I doubt Cav makes the tour team.

The only way Sam will defend the green jersey is if DQS have the whole team working for him like they did in 2020. If JA is within a sniff of yellow Sam will have little support in the mountains.

I doubt Cav will make the tour team, but I don’t quite trust Lefevere. I think Cav winning generates more headlines than a Sam win so that could sway team lineup. I don’t trust Cav either to play the team game.

breezy1985

griffin100 wrote: »

The only way Sam will defend the green jersey is if DQS have the whole team working for him like they did in 2020. If JA is within a sniff of yellow Sam will have little support in the mountains.

I doubt Cav will make the tour team, but I don’t quite trust Lefevere. I think Cav winning generates more headlines than a Sam win so that could sway team lineup. I don’t trust Cav either to play the team game.

I think Ala says he is going to build form for the Olympics but a sniff of yellow and I'm sure that will change.

I don't think Sam needed as much help getting over the mountains as he thinks and despite the sweating from all of us he was actually comfortably inside the cut every day in the end. Also hopefully this year if we are lucky Bora won't try ride the arse out of every stage

griffin100

breezy1985 wrote: »

I think Ala says he is going to build form for the Olympics but a sniff of yellow and I'm sure that will change.

I don't think Sam needed as much help getting over the mountains as he thinks and despite the sweating from all of us he was actually comfortably inside the cut every day in the end. Also hopefully this year if we are lucky Bora won't try ride the arse out of every stage

I’m hoping you’re right, he seems a lot stronger and confident in the mountains this season so if he’s left to fend for himself with 1-2 minders he hopefully will be fine. Will be interesting to see how Sagan goes as he seems to be coming into form.

lennymc

Brian? wrote: »

No they don't. Cav beat some second tier sprinters in Turkey. Bennett is defending the green jersey and is the fastest finisher in the world.

I doubt Cav makes the tour team.

The second tier sprinters also included the winner of the Scheldeprijs, that Cav beat twice.

harringtonp

There's definitely a lot of Irish hats worn in this discussion, I wonder what outsiders would make of it.

Cav is likely on an upward trend and is arguably the best sprinter of all time. While he is 35 there's nothing like a comeback from near dead to excite the imagination of the public. All I'm saying is it will be interesting to watch it play out. My bet is he will win at least one GT stage this year.

Busy day tomorrow for the racing. 4 on, starting just after 10 with the women in Belgium, then Turkey, Spain and back to Belgium.

CramCycle

I can't see any non irish people thinking he would be picked over Sam for the really big races. i don't think Mark even thinks that is a realistic option. He is still a fine sprinter but as his time before going back to DQS showed, it is his brain that is keeping him in there and it is phenomenal but in a straight up sprint, Sam has him beat this year every time, as do quite a few others. In a technical messy one, he could still take it from many of them but him and Sam are on the same team so unless a one day or short 3 day where they give Mark the benefit of being allowed drift around on other trains to either pinch one or disrupt, I don't see it. Realistically I just don't them both at the tours together.

Brian?

breezy1985 wrote: »

Could make it if he is willing to work for Sam but I don't think he could be trusted not to chase Mercks record

There is no way he's delusional enough to think he can win stages at the Tour.

Brian?

lennymc wrote: »

The second tier sprinters also included the winner of the Scheldeprijs, that Cav beat twice.

What's your actual point here? You think the sprinters are better than I give them credit for? They aren't.

Brian?

harringtonp wrote: »

There's definitely a lot of Irish hats worn in this discussion, I wonder what outsiders would make of it.

Cav is likely on an upward trend and is arguably the best sprinter of all time. While he is 35 there's nothing like a comeback from near dead to excite the imagination of the public. All I'm saying is it will be interesting to watch it play out. My bet is he will win at least one GT stage this year.

Do people actually argue that?

Cavendish was the first of the new specialised breed of sprinter who specialised in winning stages in Tours with an entire team built around them.

If you look at his classics record it's pretty poor. One Milan- San Remo.

uphillonly

griffin100 wrote: »

I don’t trust Cav either to play the team game.

There was a good interview with Brian Holm on the Cyclist Magazine podcast. He said Cav was the biggest team player of any cyclist he’s had.

Admittedly he was also Cav’s best man so has a little bias. Entertaining interview as you’d expect with Holm. Also recommend the interviews with Kelly & LeMond.

Macy0161

Philipsen is a decent sprinter, but bottom line is mega bucks UAE still picked Kristoff and (a sick/ out of form) Gaviria over him, hence he left. But after that, Cav not beating much (as good as it is to see). I think zero chance of them going in with him ahead of the defending green jersey.

As for Cav not being a team player, I think that's incredibly harsh tbh. Seemed to accept his role with Sky in the Wiggins Tour win - they could've closed down plenty of breaks to give him a shot that year. Even last night he was talking up Jakobsen rather than his win, and how great it was he was in the mix. You're probably going back to him v Griepel at HTC to see genuine team issues?

lennymc

Brian? wrote: »

What's your actual point here? You think the sprinters are better than I give them credit for? They aren't.

My actual point here is that i think Cav is going better than you give him credit for. You also referenced second rate sprinters, which include a sprinter who won the 'unofficial world sprinting championship' last week, Cavendish beat quite handily two days in a row (a full bike length with time to sit up for the second win). Cav also finished third in Scheldeprisj, ahead of the likes of Ackerman and Nizzolo, and just off Bennetts wheel, so he clearly has some speed. There were 4 of the top 10 2020 sprinters (according to cyclingnews 2020 top 10 sprinters) in that race (Bennet, Philipsenn, Ackerman, Nizzolo) and Cav finished in the middle of them. With a little bit of luck (from his perspective) he could have won it. As an earlier poster said, he has the smarts. Sprinting is not all about pure power, but being able to get to the line first which is very different. He is not as fast as he once was, but I wouldn't write him off just yet. I do think he has a GT stage win left in him given the right circumstances.

Edit - there is no way imho Cav is getting picked ahead of Bennet for the tour and defending the green jersey.

CramCycle

Macy0161 wrote: »

As for Cav not being a team player, I think that's incredibly harsh tbh.

Looking at the lead outs he gave last year (actually year before maybe) and I think in his first attempt at a sprint with Bahrain, he seen he wasn't the winner and he, in the middle of it all, in the last km got his teammate into the right head space and started barking orders like a true team player. I won't lie, I haven't liked Cavendish in the past and I think him and Sagan are guilty of things that get riders banned nowadays, but that doesn't mean that a, he is not a class sprinter and b, he isn't a team player. I'd never sit down for a pint with him though, but I will give credit where its due.

Brian?

lennymc wrote: »

My actual point here is that i think Cav is going better than you give him credit for. You also referenced second rate sprinters, which include a sprinter who won the 'unofficial world sprinting championship' last week, Cavendish beat quite handily two days in a row (a full bike length with time to sit up for the second win). Cav also finished third in Scheldeprisj, ahead of the likes of Ackerman and Nizzolo, and just off Bennetts wheel, so he clearly has some speed. There were 4 of the top 10 2020 sprinters (according to cyclingnews 2020 top 10 sprinters) in that race (Bennet, Philipsenn, Ackerman, Nizzolo) and Cav finished in the middle of them. With a little bit of luck (from his perspective) he could have won it. As an earlier poster said, he has the smarts. Sprinting is not all about pure power, but being able to get to the line first which is very different. He is not as fast as he once was, but I wouldn't write him off just yet. I do think he has a GT stage win left in him given the right circumstances.

Edit - there is no way imho Cav is getting picked ahead of Bennet for the tour and defending the green jersey.

Rather than drag this out. Yes, there is a possibility he could win a stage at the Giro or Vuelta, it would take a something to happen to a few sprinters first though.

Brian?

Macy0161 wrote: »

Philipsen is a decent sprinter, but bottom line is mega bucks UAE still picked Kristoff and (a sick/ out of form) Gaviria over him, hence he left. But after that, Cav not beating much (as good as it is to see). I think zero chance of them going in with him ahead of the defending green jersey.

As for Cav not being a team player, I think that's incredibly harsh tbh. Seemed to accept his role with Sky in the Wiggins Tour win - they could've closed down plenty of breaks to give him a shot that year. Even last night he was talking up Jakobsen rather than his win, and how great it was he was in the mix. You're probably going back to him v Griepel at HTC to see genuine team issues?

As much as I don’t like him, you’re right. He’s a team player when asked.