Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

1800_Ladladlad

I sent emails late yesterday using the template Hamanci had posted. I sent one to Eoin O'Brion and he responded pretty fast which I did not expect. He politely stated that he thought I had misunderstood the proposed bill and has asked my me to contact him so he explained it and what it meant, as well as Sinn feins stance on it. I didn't have the time to call him until at least Thursday to accommodate such a call. I asked him to simply state sinn feins stance via email so that I could review it and out questions to him. I haven't heard from him since. If he's telling me I have is understood whats proposed by O'Gorman then O'Broin must agree with the proposal which is ****ing strange considering his specific stance on housing.

Jinglejangle69

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

I sent emails late yesterday using the template Hamanci had posted. I sent one to Eoin O'Brion and he responded pretty fast which I did not expect. He politely stated that he thought I had misunderstood the proposed bill and has asked my me to contact him so he explained it and what it meant, as well as Sinn feins stance on it. I didn't have the time to call him until at least Thursday to accommodate such a call. I asked him to simply state sinn feins stance via email so that I could review it and out questions to him. I haven't heard from him since. If he's telling me I have is understood whats proposed by O'Gorman then O'Broin must agree with the proposal which is ****ing strange considering his specific stance on housing.

SF are pro open borders and immigration.

He wouldn't say anything different.

Jinglejangle69

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

I sent emails late yesterday using the template Hamanci had posted. I sent one to Eoin O'Brion and he responded pretty fast which I did not expect. He politely stated that he thought I had misunderstood the proposed bill and has asked my me to contact him so he explained it and what it meant, as well as Sinn feins stance on it. I didn't have the time to call him until at least Thursday to accommodate such a call. I asked him to simply state sinn feins stance via email so that I could review it and out questions to him. I haven't heard from him since. If he's telling me I have is understood whats proposed by O'Gorman then O'Broin must agree with the proposal which is ****ing strange considering his specific stance on housing.

SF are pro open borders and immigration.

He wouldn't say anything different.

Kermit.de.frog

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

SF are pro open borders and immigration.

He wouldn't say anything different.

I've said this before but has anyone here ever known an average shinner head to be pro open borders and mass immigration?

They strike me as hopelessly out of touch with the base I know!

DerekC16

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I've said this before but has anyone here ever known an average shinner head to be pro open borders and mass immigration?

They strike me as hopelessly out of touch with the base I know!

Sinn Fein are well aware a lot of their base aren't knowledgeable when it comes to politics and have no clue about most of their policies. Once the base realise that a vote for Sinn Fein doesnt actually mean their family will get housed they'll bleed support.

TomTomTim

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I've said this before but has anyone here ever known an average shinner head to be pro open borders and mass immigration?

They strike me as hopelessly out of touch with the base I know!

Their base or more out of touch with them than the other way around. It's not like SF hide their intent. There's a certain other Irish forum, far more right wing than this one, where there's many SF supporters. None of them have ever been able to sufficiently explain their support for a party that supports none of their values.

Kermit.de.frog

DerekC16 wrote: »

Sinn Fein are well aware a lot of their base aren't knowledgeable when it comes to politics and have no clue about most of their policies. Once the base realise that a vote for Sinn Fein doesnt actually mean their family will get housed they'll bleed support.

Aye. I have never met a sinn fein supporter who is open borders ever. It's the opposite.

That party has big issues ahead because like you say they'll bleed that support badly inevitably.

Gradius

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

What about help our own have more kids ffs

All the statistics are there for anyone to study. It's bleak reading.

The average person who supports this kind of nonsense (all 13 of them) can be one of only two things; ignorant or naive. Either way their opinion is immediately invalidated.

But these politicians know the statistics and information, so they simply cannot feign ignorance or naivety. So what does that mean?

It means they are corrupt. There is simply no other rational explanation.

They are managers of decline. They are increasing their own influence and wealth in exchange for the sovereignty of the entire country. They're selling us out, it's as simple as that.

How else could you rationalise these utter contradictions...

1) A carefully constructed housing crisis versus the importation of extra people?

2) ballooning homelessness versus the setup of distribution centres for every arsehole on the planet?

3) Failure to build enough housing for the existing population versus the stated intention to increase the population even further by an extra million people in less than 20 years?

4) Allowing hedge funds and vulture capitalists from every corner of the world to build for-profit rental accommodation versus literally giving away existing housing to people not even from this continent, never mind this country?

And so on and so with many, many other examples.

None of it adds up. Not a single shred of it UNLESS you come to the inevitable, correct conclusion that these people are sneaking, insidious scum who have played a blinder with fooling people into supporting them.

They've been emboldened by the good nature of Irish people and have steadily increased the bold-faced robbery they're carried out over the years.

It won't be forgotten and they won't be forgotten when the population rightfully does something to stand up for itself. Getting elected might be the least of their problems.

Doctor Roast

Gradius wrote: »

All the statistics are there for anyone to study. It's bleak reading.

The average person who supports this kind of nonsense (all 13 of them) can be one of only two things; ignorant or naive. Either way their opinion is immediately invalidated.

But these politicians know the statistics and information, so they simply cannot feign ignorance or naivety. So what does that mean?

It means they are corrupt. There is simply no other rational explanation.

They are managers of decline. They are increasing their own influence and wealth in exchange for the sovereignty of the entire country. They're selling us out, it's as simple as that.

How else could you rationalise these utter contradictions...

1) A carefully constructed housing crisis versus the importation of extra people?

2) ballooning homelessness versus the setup of distribution centres for every arsehole on the planet?

3) Failure to build enough housing for the existing population versus the stated intention to increase the population even further by an extra million people in less than 20 years?

4) Allowing hedge funds and vulture capitalists from every corner of the world to build for-profit rental accommodation versus literally giving away existing housing to people not even from this continent, never mind this country?

And so on and so with many, many other examples.

None of it adds up. Not a single shred of it UNLESS you come to the inevitable, correct conclusion that these people are sneaking, insidious scum who have played a blinder with fooling people into supporting them.

They've been emboldened by the good nature of Irish people and have steadily increased the bold-faced robbery they're carried out over the years.

It won't be forgotten and they won't be forgotten when the population rightfully does something to stand up for itself. Getting elected might be the least of their problems.

It's treason plain and simple and it's not just confined to Ireland, I've said it before in this thread we don't have a government accountable to people anymore, we have EU project implementation managers and various other organisations.

It's been carefully crafted the last few years from the term "new Irish" to migrant feel good stories in the media, "new to the parish". To actually stand back and look at this especially the DP provision its mind boggling.

DerekC16

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Aye. I have never met a sinn fein supporter who is open borders ever. It's the opposite.

That party has big issues ahead because like you say they'll bleed that support badly inevitably.

I know of a few but they are young, shinner woke brigade. The worst thing to happen to Sinn Fein would be for them to actually enter government. The charade is over when that happens.

DerekC16

I emailed Dessie Ellis and Roisin Shorthall just now about O Gormans white paper on asylum seekers. Slim chance of anything useful coming from either of them anyway.

kildare lad

Sinn feins new motto is...Brits out foreigners in

malinheader

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Aye. I have never met a sinn fein supporter who is open borders ever. It's the opposite.

That party has big issues ahead because like you say they'll bleed that support badly inevitably.

Used to be a big shinner till I spoke to local representatives about issues I had. Didn't take long to realise they run with the hares and the hounds. They will agree with you on anything for a vote.
Honestly, I don't think there's any party who would seriously take a proper stance on this ideal homes for migrants policy.

enricoh

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I've said this before but has anyone here ever known an average shinner head to be pro open borders and mass immigration?

They strike me as hopelessly out of touch with the base I know!

They're probably focusing on the colleges and going super woke.
They have a march for the hunger strikers every year near me n I ended up in the pub they all went to after it. We had a drink n left before it turned into a warzone, some seriously dodgy heads at it!
They didn't strike me as being particularly liberal, but then I didn't enquire either!

Feadog999

I sent this around to a few TDs and leaders of parties earlier. If they come back with anything of value I'll let you all know.


Dear (Insert Name),

I hope this email finds you well. I am writing to you today to raise my concern over two items that have been reported in the media in recent weeks.

1) The Justice Plan 2021and more specifically the plan to regularise up to 17,000 undocumented (illegal) migrants and
2) The White Paper on Ending Direct Provision

As I am sure you are aware we are currently in the middle of a profound economic crisis - one which has and will continue to put significant strain on public expenditure. At a high level I believe that the decision to grant up to 17,000 migrants regularisation will serve only to encourage more illegal immigration in the future.

While these people will be able to work it is unlikely they will be able to do so. There will be an element of social / government intervention required by the state from education support, to health and housing.

Taking housing as an example, the recent SCSI real cost of apartment delivery had the cheapest apartment sales price in Dublin at €375,000 - removing developer profit of 15% we are looking at maybe €320,000 per home, best case scenario. For more accurate figures I would direct you towards Dublin City Council's figures outlined by Mr. Brendan Kenny where he puts the average cost at €435,000. Recent figures outlined by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage do not include all in costs and thus were not used.

Assuming 2 people per household we are looking at a capital cost of €2.7 Billion using SCSI figures or €3.7 billion using DCC figures - I would direct you here to the Land Development Agency's budget of €1.25 Billion to outline the stark contrast between what is required for just 17,000 people and what there is to hand for housing delivery - of course there are other avenues with approved housing bodies and local authorities also delivering.

Now, this expenditure is assuming we have significant capacity in the housing system to deliver new housing - which, going on previous years data, we don't, so we will be left with schemes like HAP and RAS which currently expend c. €941 million in payments per year which ultimately has no return to the state.

Now, on top of this we have approximately 70,000 households on the social housing waiting list. As well as this, we have a significant portion of people that are outside the social housing bracket that are spending more than 30% of net income on rent or can't get on the property ladder - so much so that the ESRI has outlined that we need an additional 33,000 homes per year.

So here we are in the middle of an economic crisis, a health crisis and housing crisis and a scheme is being introduced to add an additional 17,000 to this system with a resulting cost of billions in housing alone what will this look like when we introduce health and education expenditure?

It is also important to note here that I believe the regularisation of 17,000 migrants completely goes against what the Irish people overwhelming voted for with the 27th amendment to the constitution in 2004.

This brings me to my second point and the white paper on Ending Direct provision. The core elements of the white paper can only be described as an incredibly generous relocation package for migrants which will not only serve to attract more economic migrants but also add significantly to the public expenditure requirement all while seemingly giving them a higher priority over people already living and working here.

There dosent appear to be any reference to making the process more efficient at deporting economic migrants while allowing genuine people to remain. In fact if you examine the country of origin and demographics of existing migrants you will find many who do not originate from war torn countries.

So this brings me to my final point. Who will pay for these programme? For reference, I am about to enter into my (redacted), living with my parents trying to save for a house. I have worked since I was 17 and never received any state support. With each passing moment home ownership is pushed further and further from my grasp. But it seems like that migrants will be given a greater priority over people like myself or those on the social housing waiting list? there are a finite number of resources after all.

Even with schemes like help to buy they only suit people who are buying new houses which for single people like myself is impossible as we are not building homes for single people or smaller households.

I pay over (redacted) in tax per month and have private health insurance. At what point will I begin to see a return on investment for living here? I get up and go to work each morning and then I see headlines like this in the paper. I do not have many red lines in politics and this is my first time writing to politicans. But both these schemes given current circumstances seem absolutely bizarre. Have the department of finance or public expenditure carried out any reviews into the schemes? Have we looked at any cost analysis?

This doesn't even include my massive reservations such schemes will have on social cohesion. Such schemes only serve to foster an "us versus them" landscape in Ireland and such thinking lead to both Brexit and a Donald Trump presidency. One only needs to examine the social unrest over the past year to see where something like this can go. Indeed, if you cast your eye to other western and north-western European countries you will see the significant social implications that can happen with such schemes.

I urge you to raise these issues in the Dáil and / or please reconsider your position on these schemes. The working people of Ireland have borne an incredible weight since the financial crash in 2008 and the state will not be able to borrow at 0% interest forever, something recently backed up by the governor of the Central Bank. So one can only assume that not only will working people bear the cost of the much needed additional expenditure due to covid but we will also bear the financial costs of such generous immigration schemes and we will also have to live with the social implications that it brings.

Indeed, if you look at the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council Long Term Sustianability Report from Summer 2020 you will see the very significant expenditure implications coming down the line due to an aging population and the pension and health expenditure this will bring. This gap will not be plugged with a massive influx of low skilled economic migrants. Only through high skilled labour and encouraging the exitsing population of Ireland to have children will a gap like this become sustainable in the long-term. But of course due to housing and child care costs this is something that is also being pushed out from working people currently living here.

The introduction and support of schemes such as the above are out of touch with the desire of the majority of the electorate and will likely make it harder for me to vote for your party in the future.

(I changed the above paragraph depending whether I knew their stance or not)

I want to thank you for taking time to read such a long email and I look forward to your reply or you raising these issues in the Dáil on my behalf

Best wishes,

Well written, feadog

DelaneysMule

As a TD, looking at your email account, if 0.00000001% of your constituency has a problem with something (the ones who email) and the remaining 99.9999999% don't seem to mind it (the ones who don't email), you know what you should do. Thanks for showing the TD's what they should do.

Mules

I heard back from my Fine Fail TD. He said direct provision is dehumanising and swears that the new plan won't have any effect on the housing list :rolleyes:

Doctor Roast

DelaneysMule wrote: »

As a TD, looking at your email account, if 0.00000001% of your constituency has a problem with something (the ones who email) and the remaining 99.9999999% don't seem to mind it (the ones who don't email), you know what you should do. Thanks for showing the TD's what they should do.

??? This oul emailing TDs business really eats at you....

billyhead

Feadog999 wrote: »

I sent this around to a few TDs and leaders of parties earlier. If they come back with anything of value I'll let you all know.


Dear (Insert Name),

I hope this email finds you well. I am writing to you today to raise my concern over two items that have been reported in the media in recent weeks.

1) The Justice Plan 2021and more specifically the plan to regularise up to 17,000 undocumented (illegal) migrants and
2) The White Paper on Ending Direct Provision

As I am sure you are aware we are currently in the middle of a profound economic crisis - one which has and will continue to put significant strain on public expenditure. At a high level I believe that the decision to grant up to 17,000 migrants regularisation will serve only to encourage more illegal immigration in the future.

While these people will be able to work it is unlikely they will be able to do so. There will be an element of social / government intervention required by the state from education support, to health and housing.

Taking housing as an example, the recent SCSI real cost of apartment delivery had the cheapest apartment sales price in Dublin at €375,000 - removing developer profit of 15% we are looking at maybe €320,000 per home, best case scenario. For more accurate figures I would direct you towards Dublin City Council's figures outlined by Mr. Brendan Kenny where he puts the average cost at €435,000. Recent figures outlined by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage do not include all in costs and thus were not used.

Assuming 2 people per household we are looking at a capital cost of €2.7 Billion using SCSI figures or €3.7 billion using DCC figures - I would direct you here to the Land Development Agency's budget of €1.25 Billion to outline the stark contrast between what is required for just 17,000 people and what there is to hand for housing delivery - of course there are other avenues with approved housing bodies and local authorities also delivering.

Now, this expenditure is assuming we have significant capacity in the housing system to deliver new housing - which, going on previous years data, we don't, so we will be left with schemes like HAP and RAS which currently expend c. €941 million in payments per year which ultimately has no return to the state.

Now, on top of this we have approximately 70,000 households on the social housing waiting list. As well as this, we have a significant portion of people that are outside the social housing bracket that are spending more than 30% of net income on rent or can't get on the property ladder - so much so that the ESRI has outlined that we need an additional 33,000 homes per year.

So here we are in the middle of an economic crisis, a health crisis and housing crisis and a scheme is being introduced to add an additional 17,000 to this system with a resulting cost of billions in housing alone what will this look like when we introduce health and education expenditure?

It is also important to note here that I believe the regularisation of 17,000 migrants completely goes against what the Irish people overwhelming voted for with the 27th amendment to the constitution in 2004.

This brings me to my second point and the white paper on Ending Direct provision. The core elements of the white paper can only be described as an incredibly generous relocation package for migrants which will not only serve to attract more economic migrants but also add significantly to the public expenditure requirement all while seemingly giving them a higher priority over people already living and working here.

There dosent appear to be any reference to making the process more efficient at deporting economic migrants while allowing genuine people to remain. In fact if you examine the country of origin and demographics of existing migrants you will find many who do not originate from war torn countries.

So this brings me to my final point. Who will pay for these programme? For reference, I am about to enter into my (redacted), living with my parents trying to save for a house. I have worked since I was 17 and never received any state support. With each passing moment home ownership is pushed further and further from my grasp. But it seems like that migrants will be given a greater priority over people like myself or those on the social housing waiting list? there are a finite number of resources after all.

Even with schemes like help to buy they only suit people who are buying new houses which for single people like myself is impossible as we are not building homes for single people or smaller households.

I pay over (redacted) in tax per month and have private health insurance. At what point will I begin to see a return on investment for living here? I get up and go to work each morning and then I see headlines like this in the paper. I do not have many red lines in politics and this is my first time writing to politicans. But both these schemes given current circumstances seem absolutely bizarre. Have the department of finance or public expenditure carried out any reviews into the schemes? Have we looked at any cost analysis?

This doesn't even include my massive reservations such schemes will have on social cohesion. Such schemes only serve to foster an "us versus them" landscape in Ireland and such thinking lead to both Brexit and a Donald Trump presidency. One only needs to examine the social unrest over the past year to see where something like this can go. Indeed, if you cast your eye to other western and north-western European countries you will see the significant social implications that can happen with such schemes.

I urge you to raise these issues in the Dáil and / or please reconsider your position on these schemes. The working people of Ireland have borne an incredible weight since the financial crash in 2008 and the state will not be able to borrow at 0% interest forever, something recently backed up by the governor of the Central Bank. So one can only assume that not only will working people bear the cost of the much needed additional expenditure due to covid but we will also bear the financial costs of such generous immigration schemes and we will also have to live with the social implications that it brings.

Indeed, if you look at the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council Long Term Sustianability Report from Summer 2020 you will see the very significant expenditure implications coming down the line due to an aging population and the pension and health expenditure this will bring. This gap will not be plugged with a massive influx of low skilled economic migrants. Only through high skilled labour and encouraging the exitsing population of Ireland to have children will a gap like this become sustainable in the long-term. But of course due to housing and child care costs this is something that is also being pushed out from working people currently living here.

The introduction and support of schemes such as the above are out of touch with the desire of the majority of the electorate and will likely make it harder for me to vote for your party in the future.

(I changed the above paragraph depending whether I knew their stance or not)

I want to thank you for taking time to read such a long email and I look forward to your reply or you raising these issues in the Dáil on my behalf

Best wishes,

Very well written. Fair play for circulating it.

Feadog999

Feadog999 wrote: »

I sent this around to a few TDs and leaders of parties earlier. If they come back with anything of value I'll let you all know.


Dear (Insert Name),

I hope this email finds you well. I am writing to you today to raise my concern over two items that have been reported in the media in recent weeks.

1) The Justice Plan 2021and more specifically the plan to regularise up to 17,000 undocumented (illegal) migrants and
2) The White Paper on Ending Direct Provision

As I am sure you are aware we are currently in the middle of a profound economic crisis - one which has and will continue to put significant strain on public expenditure. At a high level I believe that the decision to grant up to 17,000 migrants regularisation will serve only to encourage more illegal immigration in the future.

While these people will be able to work it is unlikely they will be able to do so. There will be an element of social / government intervention required by the state from education support, to health and housing.

Taking housing as an example, the recent SCSI real cost of apartment delivery had the cheapest apartment sales price in Dublin at €375,000 - removing developer profit of 15% we are looking at maybe €320,000 per home, best case scenario. For more accurate figures I would direct you towards Dublin City Council's figures outlined by Mr. Brendan Kenny where he puts the average cost at €435,000. Recent figures outlined by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage do not include all in costs and thus were not used.

Assuming 2 people per household we are looking at a capital cost of €2.7 Billion using SCSI figures or €3.7 billion using DCC figures - I would direct you here to the Land Development Agency's budget of €1.25 Billion to outline the stark contrast between what is required for just 17,000 people and what there is to hand for housing delivery - of course there are other avenues with approved housing bodies and local authorities also delivering.

Now, this expenditure is assuming we have significant capacity in the housing system to deliver new housing - which, going on previous years data, we don't, so we will be left with schemes like HAP and RAS which currently expend c. €941 million in payments per year which ultimately has no return to the state.

Now, on top of this we have approximately 70,000 households on the social housing waiting list. As well as this, we have a significant portion of people that are outside the social housing bracket that are spending more than 30% of net income on rent or can't get on the property ladder - so much so that the ESRI has outlined that we need an additional 33,000 homes per year.

So here we are in the middle of an economic crisis, a health crisis and housing crisis and a scheme is being introduced to add an additional 17,000 to this system with a resulting cost of billions in housing alone what will this look like when we introduce health and education expenditure?

It is also important to note here that I believe the regularisation of 17,000 migrants completely goes against what the Irish people overwhelming voted for with the 27th amendment to the constitution in 2004.

This brings me to my second point and the white paper on Ending Direct provision. The core elements of the white paper can only be described as an incredibly generous relocation package for migrants which will not only serve to attract more economic migrants but also add significantly to the public expenditure requirement all while seemingly giving them a higher priority over people already living and working here.

There dosent appear to be any reference to making the process more efficient at deporting economic migrants while allowing genuine people to remain. In fact if you examine the country of origin and demographics of existing migrants you will find many who do not originate from war torn countries.

So this brings me to my final point. Who will pay for these programme? For reference, I am about to enter into my (redacted), living with my parents trying to save for a house. I have worked since I was 17 and never received any state support. With each passing moment home ownership is pushed further and further from my grasp. But it seems like that migrants will be given a greater priority over people like myself or those on the social housing waiting list? there are a finite number of resources after all.

Even with schemes like help to buy they only suit people who are buying new houses which for single people like myself is impossible as we are not building homes for single people or smaller households.

I pay over (redacted) in tax per month and have private health insurance. At what point will I begin to see a return on investment for living here? I get up and go to work each morning and then I see headlines like this in the paper. I do not have many red lines in politics and this is my first time writing to politicans. But both these schemes given current circumstances seem absolutely bizarre. Have the department of finance or public expenditure carried out any reviews into the schemes? Have we looked at any cost analysis?

This doesn't even include my massive reservations such schemes will have on social cohesion. Such schemes only serve to foster an "us versus them" landscape in Ireland and such thinking lead to both Brexit and a Donald Trump presidency. One only needs to examine the social unrest over the past year to see where something like this can go. Indeed, if you cast your eye to other western and north-western European countries you will see the significant social implications that can happen with such schemes.

I urge you to raise these issues in the Dáil and / or please reconsider your position on these schemes. The working people of Ireland have borne an incredible weight since the financial crash in 2008 and the state will not be able to borrow at 0% interest forever, something recently backed up by the governor of the Central Bank. So one can only assume that not only will working people bear the cost of the much needed additional expenditure due to covid but we will also bear the financial costs of such generous immigration schemes and we will also have to live with the social implications that it brings.

Indeed, if you look at the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council Long Term Sustianability Report from Summer 2020 you will see the very significant expenditure implications coming down the line due to an aging population and the pension and health expenditure this will bring. This gap will not be plugged with a massive influx of low skilled economic migrants. Only through high skilled labour and encouraging the exitsing population of Ireland to have children will a gap like this become sustainable in the long-term. But of course due to housing and child care costs this is something that is also being pushed out from working people currently living here.

The introduction and support of schemes such as the above are out of touch with the desire of the majority of the electorate and will likely make it harder for me to vote for your party in the future.

(I changed the above paragraph depending whether I knew their stance or not)

I want to thank you for taking time to read such a long email and I look forward to your reply or you raising these issues in the Dáil on my behalf

Best wishes,

Brilliant fair play.

Would there be any point in starting a petition online.
The wording of this would be great for something like that, if it would have any use

Gradius

DelaneysMule wrote: »

As a TD, looking at your email account, if 0.00000001% of your constituency has a problem with something (the ones who email) and the remaining 99.9999999% don't seem to mind it (the ones who don't email), you know what you should do. Thanks for showing the TD's what they should do.

Look at this

How dare anyone with the wrong-think get involved democratically!

They should have long, long ago brought in mandatory voting. Do everything to accommodate the difficulties involved so as there is an ACTUALLY representative governance.

Then all these dis-enfranchising, fringe lunatics wouldn't have had a chance to slither in to power. Their "mandate" exists entirely on the premise that people don't notice, like Captain Democracy amply demonstrates above.

"I murdered 25 people but wasn't caught, therefore I have the support of the nation behind me."

gw80

Mules wrote: »

I heard back from my Fine Fail TD. He said direct provision is dehumanising and swears that the new plan won't have any effect on the housing list :rolleyes:

They must be bringing their own houses with them so.

kildare lad

Feadog999 wrote: »

I sent this around to a few TDs and leaders of parties earlier. If they come back with anything of value I'll let you all know.


Dear (Insert Name),

I hope this email finds you well. I am writing to you today to raise my concern over two items that have been reported in the media in recent weeks.

1) The Justice Plan 2021and more specifically the plan to regularise up to 17,000 undocumented (illegal) migrants and
2) The White Paper on Ending Direct Provision

As I am sure you are aware we are currently in the middle of a profound economic crisis - one which has and will continue to put significant strain on public expenditure. At a high level I believe that the decision to grant up to 17,000 migrants regularisation will serve only to encourage more illegal immigration in the future.

While these people will be able to work it is unlikely they will be able to do so. There will be an element of social / government intervention required by the state from education support, to health and housing.

Taking housing as an example, the recent SCSI real cost of apartment delivery had the cheapest apartment sales price in Dublin at €375,000 - removing developer profit of 15% we are looking at maybe €320,000 per home, best case scenario. For more accurate figures I would direct you towards Dublin City Council's figures outlined by Mr. Brendan Kenny where he puts the average cost at €435,000. Recent figures outlined by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage do not include all in costs and thus were not used.

Assuming 2 people per household we are looking at a capital cost of €2.7 Billion using SCSI figures or €3.7 billion using DCC figures - I would direct you here to the Land Development Agency's budget of €1.25 Billion to outline the stark contrast between what is required for just 17,000 people and what there is to hand for housing delivery - of course there are other avenues with approved housing bodies and local authorities also delivering.

Now, this expenditure is assuming we have significant capacity in the housing system to deliver new housing - which, going on previous years data, we don't, so we will be left with schemes like HAP and RAS which currently expend c. €941 million in payments per year which ultimately has no return to the state.

Now, on top of this we have approximately 70,000 households on the social housing waiting list. As well as this, we have a significant portion of people that are outside the social housing bracket that are spending more than 30% of net income on rent or can't get on the property ladder - so much so that the ESRI has outlined that we need an additional 33,000 homes per year.

So here we are in the middle of an economic crisis, a health crisis and housing crisis and a scheme is being introduced to add an additional 17,000 to this system with a resulting cost of billions in housing alone what will this look like when we introduce health and education expenditure?

It is also important to note here that I believe the regularisation of 17,000 migrants completely goes against what the Irish people overwhelming voted for with the 27th amendment to the constitution in 2004.

This brings me to my second point and the white paper on Ending Direct provision. The core elements of the white paper can only be described as an incredibly generous relocation package for migrants which will not only serve to attract more economic migrants but also add significantly to the public expenditure requirement all while seemingly giving them a higher priority over people already living and working here.

There dosent appear to be any reference to making the process more efficient at deporting economic migrants while allowing genuine people to remain. In fact if you examine the country of origin and demographics of existing migrants you will find many who do not originate from war torn countries.

So this brings me to my final point. Who will pay for these programme? For reference, I am about to enter into my (redacted), living with my parents trying to save for a house. I have worked since I was 17 and never received any state support. With each passing moment home ownership is pushed further and further from my grasp. But it seems like that migrants will be given a greater priority over people like myself or those on the social housing waiting list? there are a finite number of resources after all.

Even with schemes like help to buy they only suit people who are buying new houses which for single people like myself is impossible as we are not building homes for single people or smaller households.

I pay over (redacted) in tax per month and have private health insurance. At what point will I begin to see a return on investment for living here? I get up and go to work each morning and then I see headlines like this in the paper. I do not have many red lines in politics and this is my first time writing to politicans. But both these schemes given current circumstances seem absolutely bizarre. Have the department of finance or public expenditure carried out any reviews into the schemes? Have we looked at any cost analysis?

This doesn't even include my massive reservations such schemes will have on social cohesion. Such schemes only serve to foster an "us versus them" landscape in Ireland and such thinking lead to both Brexit and a Donald Trump presidency. One only needs to examine the social unrest over the past year to see where something like this can go. Indeed, if you cast your eye to other western and north-western European countries you will see the significant social implications that can happen with such schemes.

I urge you to raise these issues in the Dáil and / or please reconsider your position on these schemes. The working people of Ireland have borne an incredible weight since the financial crash in 2008 and the state will not be able to borrow at 0% interest forever, something recently backed up by the governor of the Central Bank. So one can only assume that not only will working people bear the cost of the much needed additional expenditure due to covid but we will also bear the financial costs of such generous immigration schemes and we will also have to live with the social implications that it brings.

Indeed, if you look at the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council Long Term Sustianability Report from Summer 2020 you will see the very significant expenditure implications coming down the line due to an aging population and the pension and health expenditure this will bring. This gap will not be plugged with a massive influx of low skilled economic migrants. Only through high skilled labour and encouraging the exitsing population of Ireland to have children will a gap like this become sustainable in the long-term. But of course due to housing and child care costs this is something that is also being pushed out from working people currently living here.

The introduction and support of schemes such as the above are out of touch with the desire of the majority of the electorate and will likely make it harder for me to vote for your party in the future.

(I changed the above paragraph depending whether I knew their stance or not)

I want to thank you for taking time to read such a long email and I look forward to your reply or you raising these issues in the Dáil on my behalf

Best wishes,

My mate is currently paying 700 euro a month to rent a bedroom in a house in Crumlin. I was chatting to him last night and this topic came up in the conversation . Put it this way , I'd get another ban on boards if I repeated the language he used to describe politicians in Ireland . God help any of them that call to the door if they're out canvassing

Feadog999

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Brilliant fair play.

Would there be any point in starting a petition online.
The wording of this would be great for something like that, if it would have any use

We could give it a go. I'm all for singing it. I think posting petition links on boards might be banned though.

I think a better course of action is to spread the above around as much as possible on social media and your elected representatives. Anybody is free to use the wording as they like you could update the section regarding my current circumstances with circumstances of your own and send it to TDs and senators.

I have sent it to

Micheal Martin, Leo Varadkar, Eamonn Ryan, Alan Kelly, Mary Lou and Pearse, jack chambers, peadir Tobin, Helen McEntee, Michael McGrath and Paschal, Dara Calleary, Richard Burton and Jim O'Callaghan.

Kivaro

Mules wrote: »

I heard back from my Fine Fail TD. He said direct provision is dehumanising and swears that the new plan won't have any effect on the housing list :rolleyes:

That TD is incorrect. The Dept. of Housing did a report on it and they said it will not only affect the housing list, but it will also cause homelessness; not of asylum seekers but of Irish people in order to accommodate them with own-door housing within 4 months. My next email would be to explain the reason why they just lost your vote at the next election, which may be coming sooner than they think.

jelem

Gradius wrote: »

Look at this

How dare anyone with the wrong-think get involved democratically!

They should have long, long ago brought in mandatory voting. Do everything to accommodate the difficulties involved so as there is an ACTUALLY representative governance.

Then all these dis-enfranchising, fringe lunatics wouldn't have had a chance to slither in to power. Their "mandate" exists entirely on the premise that people don't notice, like Captain Democracy amply demonstrates above.

"I murdered 25 people but wasn't caught, therefore I have the support of the nation behind me."

a minimum of 70% turnout and 60% of vote.
you have 43% turnout and 70% for the motion.
Not democratic and citizens f-- d off not interested in the worded options.
party faithful vote and carried -TDs parents\family\cousins and those with tongue up anus seking maybe future favor.
i remind you all that has been wrong with ireland since 1920s is due to FF and FG jackboot rule as
they have held the power and used church and garda to force their way.
SF not a full option BUT must remove FF and FG parties from irish politics before ireland can
progress and citizens can gain some truth and benefit for their labour and toil whilst staying in a little
country.

Hamachi

Feadog999 wrote: »

We could give it a go. I'm all for singing it. I think posting petition links on boards might be banned though.

I think a better course of action is to spread the above around as much as possible on social media and your elected representatives. Anybody is free to use the wording as they like you could update the section regarding my current circumstances with circumstances of your own and send it to TDs and senators.

I have sent it to

Micheal Martin, Leo Varadkar, Eamonn Ryan, Alan Kelly, Mary Lou and Pearse, jack chambers, peadir Tobin, Helen McEntee, Michael McGrath and Paschal, Dara Calleary, Richard Burton and Jim O'Callaghan.

Fantastically crafted e-mail that covers all bases. You are a very welcome addition to the thread / forum.

I am calling my local TD’s office tomorrow. I plan to leverage some of your data points in my conversation.

Mentioned this in a previous post, but it’s incredibly energizing seeing folks exercising their democratic right. We, the Irish people, put the political class into the positions they inhabit today. We can just as easily remove them from those positions, if they choose to act in a manner that is counter to our interests.

Mules

Kivaro wrote: »

That TD is incorrect. The Dept. of Housing did a report on it and they said it will not only affect the housing list, but it will also cause homelessness; not of asylum seekers but of Irish people in order to accommodate them with own-door housing within 4 months. My next email would be to explain the reason why they just lost your vote at the next election, which may be coming sooner than they think.

I'll do that

Has anyone seen whats going on in Denmark? They've declared Syria a safe country and are revoking asylum seekers resident permits because their stay was only temporary until their country was safe again but they won't actually deport them because Denmark won't cooperate with the Assad regime so they'll be accomodated at departure centres until they either leave voluntarily or Denmark decides to cooperate with the syrian government.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/01/denmark-strips-94-syrian-refugees-residency-permits-deeming/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9316633/Denmark-European-country-Syrian-migrants-country.html

I don't agree with what Denmark are doing but the writing should be on the wall that this is what happens when your country is a soft touch for years and get taken advantage of, genuine asylum seekers (as I presume these Syrians are) will be the ones shafted when a country wakes up that they were taken advantage of in the past