Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

spring lane jack

gw80 wrote: »

Yea, because the people who will be coming here have done such great jobs of their own country's right.

Just like us at building houses.

ThunbergsAreGo

Patrick2010 wrote: »

O Gormans dept. will be funding this from taxpayers money, same as Dept. of housing. The 700 million odd euro O Gorman reckons it will cost to setup initially could have been used by the dept. of housing to provide housing.

I don't disagree but splitting it stops any fudging of numbers. It will be very obvious where this is being spent.

Also having witnessed the performance of O Gorman and his Dept with creches, we are looking at 1BN easily.

spring lane jack

spring lane jack wrote: »

Just like us at building houses.

And it won't be foreigners objecting left right and centre to housing and other infrastructural development.

mgn

spring lane jack wrote: »

And it won't be foreigners objecting left right and centre to housing and other infrastructural development.

You would be surprised at how good the get at objecting once the get a foot in the door.

ThunbergsAreGo

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Darragh O Brien came back to me.
None of this accommodation will be provided by the Department of Housing until the persons claim is validated.

Until then all accommodation (2.000) of which will be in centres that will be provided and funded by O Gormans Department, which if true will make it alot easier to see year on year effect.

Well thats a complete bare faced lie

I'm taking this quote from the white paper "Residents will remain in the Centres for a maximum of four months before moving to accommodation within the community"
"For those applicants who do not receive a positive decision while in the Reception and Integration Centre,Phase Two accommodation in the community will be provided."

Its own door in the community in 4 months no matter how bogus your claim is

ThunbergsAreGo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well thats a complete bare faced lie

I'm taking this quote from the white paper "Residents will remain in the Centres for a maximum of four months before moving to accommodation within the community"
"For those applicants who do not receive a positive decision while in the Reception and Integration Centre,Phase Two accommodation in the community will be provided."

Its own door in the community in 4 months no matter how bogus your claim is

That will be provided by O Gormans Department.

Quote
The additional accommodation envisaged under the ending of Direct Provision comes under the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. My Department’s work on housing waiting lists etc. continues separately with a distinct funding stream for new housing. Only eligible applicants are included on those lists.
End Quote

Now it still seems we will just have a different Department taking housing supply, but as it is seperate tracking, accountability etc is alot easier.

The more that email the better tbh, it's good so see a response from O Brien. I actually like the man alot more than most of his opposition.

Reply from Marian Harkin (ind)

Thank you for your email regarding the proposal from Minister Roderic O'Gorman on ending Direct Provision. I have not read the entire proposal but have read the Executive Summary. In the next number of months, I presume they will publish a green paper and then the issue will be debated in the Dáil.

I read your email carefully and you made some very valid points. I believe we need to develop a system that is humane and equitable. A major part of our problem up to now has been the inordinate length of time it is taking to process applications for asylum or refugee status and so the numbers in Direct Provision have increased over the last number of years. Having spoken to a number of people who visit these centres and who keep in contact with those living in the centres, some of them are pretty dismal places. Often there are petty restrictions and regulations that add to the difficulties that these people face and of course there is little privacy with sometimes 2-3 strangers sharing a small room, and entire families also sharing a room. It is a system that needs to be changed.

However, we need to change more than the Direct Provision system itself, we also need to update and expedite the system that we have in place for assessing the right of families and individuals for international protection from our state. Getting rid of Direct Provision (which I support) is only one half of the equation. Our judicial processes must be streamlined and fair for those applying for refugee status, and while their application is ongoing, we have a duty to treat these people in a humane and decent way.

One of the issues you raise in your email is that we should not have a system whereby asylum seekers have preferential treatment compared to Irish citizens for example. When I read the Executive Summary one of the issues that jumped out at me under the umbrella of healthcare was, they mention access to mental health services. It is extraordinarily difficult and sometime nigh impossible for Irish people to access any kind of mental health services as things stand right now. The mental health system itself works quite well but the difficulty is accessing the system. Similarly, the White Paper speaks of "specialist refugee accommodation within the system will be made available for those who need to relocate away from an abusive or violent relationship". This is indeed a compassionate response, however, in my work with organisations who represent victims of domestic violence over the last number of years, I am aware of how difficult it is for domestic violent victims to relocate as of now. Therefore, we need to be very careful to ensure that the language in any legislation or any government policy is inclusive and by that, I mean that there is no hierarchy of access and that decisions are based on need.

I believe we can develop a humane approach to those seeking international protection if they are included in our policy provisions and, if we have a judicial system in place to process their applications in a timely and fair manner. Please feel free to contact me at any time in the future regarding this proposal as it is debated and assessed in the Oireachtas, as I value hearing from people who are reflective and reasoned in their response. If our new system is to work it must have public acceptance by most people and be seen not just as a decent response to those who do need protection but also an opportunity for Ireland to give back in a fair and equitable way for all those Irish people who had to make their homes elsewhere.

Yours,
Marian

CtevenSrowder

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Reply from Marian Harkin (ind)

Quite a measured response in fairness to her.

Kivaro

What the replies from your TDs are telling me is that further questions will definitely need to be asked of O' Gorman.
But it's great to see some semblance of a conversation finally occurring on the asylum process itself in Ireland, which drastically needs changing. Too much money is being spent on the legal aspect of it (multitude of appeals, high court appearances, and some even to the Supreme Court etc.), which of course Irish law firms want unchanged, as there is too much money in it for them.

Hamachi

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Quite a measured response in fairness to her.

I spoke to Jack Chamber’s office today. Reiterated my concerns that this will act as a beacon for illegitimate claims, at a time when we are experiencing a crisis in homelessness and severe economic turbulence.

It was a good conversation. The guy I spoke to took notes on our exchange and committed to passing them along to Jack to raise with Roderic O’Gorman. He also suggested that I write to O’Gorman directly to convey my concerns. I’m not sure that I have the appetite to engage with him, but I might send an e-mail when I have more free time at the weekend.

decreds

Deleted User wrote: »

We are at most 10-15 years behind Denmark, possibly less. The CSOs most recent nett immigration figures to Ireland show us having one of the highest figures in the world per head of population. The vast majority of our immigration is now from outside the EU. 29,000 nett last year, with about 20,000 non EU

I'm all for vetted immigration for skilled workers who will contribute to society, think similar to OZ/NZ model but from what I've seen so far, we let anyone in and we are really going to suffer as a society due to this.

Strumms

“It says this will be own-door or own-room accommodation, for which they will pay a means-tested rent.” ( I’m willing to bet less than 30% will pay any rent)

“All accommodation will be own-door, self-contained houses or apartments for families to provide privacy, agency and independence.”

Will they get free private health insurance, paid for by the Irish taxpayers?

They then could have ‘own door’ private wards if they need to go into hospital.

How about own private doctor, own private nurse, own private physiotherapist... all of the above see and help... only them

Mr. teddywinkles

Love to know when all this money is going to run out. We just keep borrowing indefinitely until the interest owed is too great and sinks the country finally. ?

TomTomTim

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Love to know when all this money is going to run out. We just keep borrowing indefinitely until the interest owed is too great and sinks the country finally. ?

If we do end up in financial ruin, the socialists who support stuff like this, will be the first to blame it on capitalism, while ignoring all the idiotic policies that they've supported that caused the issue.

Doctor Roast

gilberto_eire wrote: »

No it hasnt.

Asylum seekers are fleeing persecution and will generally end up somewhere they can walk ie the camps in neighbouring countries.

Economic migrants arrive in on commercial flights from other EU countries after disposing of their passport on route.

It's very easy to distinguish them as none can get to Ireland under the normal grounds of asylum.

We're in a good situation here seen as we're an island, but for other countries it's become a headache, we've seen the middle aged bearded children, again it falls back on Merkle who started an exodus.

Feadog999

I received a response from Richard Bruton (FG) and Jim O'Callaghan (FF)


Bruton: Both of these schemes were key elements in the Programme for Government which permitted three parties come together to form a government to manage the present difficult period. I believe that they are based in the mandate which parties received in the election. Policy towards migration can often be disputed. However, I believe that these changes provide a needed rebalancing in the Irish government's approach. They will not be castles but they are the right thing to do, in my view. The roll out of these measures will be subject to scrutiny in the Oireachtas.

O'Callaghan: The primary objective of the State in dealing with people who migrate here seeking asylum should be to speed up the process whereby they apply for international protection. I have stated previously that if a person seeking international protection is given priority over people waiting on local authority housing lists that this will cause severe tension and will be very damaging. I think it should not occur. Nonetheless, I believe we should improve the quality of accommodation for those seeking international protection. The primary objective, however, must be to speed up the process so that somebody can get an answer as to whether they’re entitled to stay in the country or not within a much shorter period of time than operates at present.

CtevenSrowder

Feadog999 wrote: »

I received a response from Richard Bruton (FG) and Jim O'Callaghan (FF)


Bruton: Both of these schemes were key elements in the Programme for Government which permitted three parties come together to form a government to manage the present difficult period. I believe that they are based in the mandate which parties received in the election. Policy towards migration can often be disputed. However, I believe that these changes provide a needed rebalancing in the Irish government's approach. They will not be castles but they are the right thing to do, in my view. The roll out of these measures will be subject to scrutiny in the Oireachtas.

O'Callaghan: The primary objective of the State in dealing with people who migrate here seeking asylum should be to speed up the process whereby they apply for international protection. I have stated previously that if a person seeking international protection is given priority over people waiting on local authority housing lists that this will cause severe tension and will be very damaging. I think it should not occur. Nonetheless, I believe we should improve the quality of accommodation for those seeking international protection. The primary objective, however, must be to speed up the process so that somebody can get an answer as to whether they’re entitled to stay in the country or not within a much shorter period of time than operates at present.

Disappointed with Bruton's response. Sounds like it was written by somebody else.

jmreire

Feadog999 wrote: »

I received a response from Richard Bruton (FG) and Jim O'Callaghan (FF)


Bruton: Both of these schemes were key elements in the Programme for Government which permitted three parties come together to form a government to manage the present difficult period. I believe that they are based in the mandate which parties received in the election. Policy towards migration can often be disputed. However, I believe that these changes provide a needed rebalancing in the Irish government's approach. They will not be castles but they are the right thing to do, in my view. The roll out of these measures will be subject to scrutiny in the Oireachtas.

O'Callaghan: The primary objective of the State in dealing with people who migrate here seeking asylum should be to speed up the process whereby they apply for international protection. I have stated previously that if a person seeking international protection is given priority over people waiting on local authority housing lists that this will cause severe tension and will be very damaging. I think it should not occur. Nonetheless, I believe we should improve the quality of accommodation for those seeking international protection. The primary objective, however, must be to speed up the process so that somebody can get an answer as to whether they’re entitled to stay in the country or not within a much shorter period of time than operates at present.

Strange, but I have no memory of canvassers mentioning direct provision. asylum seekers , or immigration issues during the last election campaign?? Yet all Parties now have a mandate?

chosen1

O'Callaghans response is very sensible in my opinion.

Just hope that the bogus ones are actually deported in a swift manner after all this. Not good for anyone involved dragging the process out years, apart from maybe the solicitors who get paid to deal with the process currently.

Dyr

chosen1 wrote: »

Just hope that the bogus ones are actually deported in a swift manner after all this. .

Is that sarcasm or pure, blind naivety?

Doctor Roast

jmreire wrote: »

Strange, but I have no memory of canvassers mentioning direct provision. asylum seekers , or immigration issues during the last election campaign?? Yet all Parties now have a mandate?

I'm sure no mention of giving them their own accommodation was mentioned in the programme for government either...

decreds

chosen1 wrote: »

O'Callaghans response is very sensible in my opinion.

Just hope that the bogus ones are actually deported in a swift manner after all this. Not good for anyone involved dragging the process out years, apart from maybe the solicitors who get paid to deal with the process currently.

Agreed. Remind me to never vote for Bruton

chosen1

Bambi wrote: »

Is that sarcasm or pure, blind naivety?

Neither.

It's a blind hope that someone sensible will lead the way on it at some stage in the future, but I am in no way confident it will happen given our current politicians and popular media spin on the topic.

Invidious

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Love to know when all this money is going to run out. We just keep borrowing indefinitely until the interest owed is too great and sinks the country finally. ?

Luckily we have central banks that have essentially eradicated the concept of "interest." Ireland's 10-year bond yield is 0.05 percent, which only encourages excessive and stupid borrowing.

clytemnestra

Doctor Roast wrote: »

We're in a good situation here seen as we're an island, but for other countries it's become a headache, we've seen the middle aged bearded children, again it falls back on Merkle who started an exodus.

We should be but we aren't. The Common Travel Area means they just pour in through our open border with the UK. I've travelled by ferry many times without being asked for ID, just madness.

Mules

I emailed back the FF td who replied first email. He had replied to me saying that the plan wouldn't have any effect on people on the housing list. I sent him an email with quotes from the department of housing saying the opposite. We'll see if he gets back to me.

Roderick O Gorman's constituencies office got back to me and said they would forward the email to his private office in the department.

I got an email back from the office of Michael McNamara, he's an independent. The email said that my email was received and the content noted.

I haven't heard back from anyone else yet. I'll give Darragh O'Brien an email, I hadn't thought of him earlier.

A good measured response from O'Callaghan in so far as an email allows.

Bruton's response is pathetic, " they will not be castles"...what kind of response is that from an elected official?

Gunmonkey

chosen1 wrote: »

O'Callaghans response is very sensible in my opinion.

Just hope that the bogus ones are actually deported in a swift manner after all this. Not good for anyone involved dragging the process out years, apart from maybe the solicitors who get paid to deal with the process currently.

As should be the focus of the government. I'm not 100% opposed to this policy but only if.....IF...the Gov:

A) - made a massive push to have every asylum claim processed and evaluated within 3-4 months
- there was a hard cap on the number of legit asylum claims we took in per month after they were verified. As in, we allow in and house 30 a month after they are processed and then try to get the others placed within another nearby country (these would be legit asylum claims, not just the usual mass of economic migrants most other EU countries are starting to rail against).



And can assume Bruton meant by the "we had a mandate from electorate" is something like;

If elected, we will address the direct provision system!

and noting else; no details, no info, just "we will look into it" and claim that the people voted for this.
Like a party saying "if elected, we will build houses!" and then when in power bulldozing a wildlife reserve and slapping up 2 shacks made from old pallets and rusty corrugated iron; they did what they said they would do and built "houses".

Lastly, and most hilarious of all to me, is that this is a Green led initiative. Who have been shrieking at the Irish public to not fly anymore for holidays and stay on our island, and pushing through a policy that might encourage large scale flights to our country in the initial asylum claims, visiting their families and families coming to visit them in their swanky new house :rolleyes:

suicide_circus

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Reply from Marian Harkin (ind)

Great to see such a thoughtful, considered and balanced response from a TD which actually addressed the concerns and didn't fob you off with political platitudes. I suspect not many in our parliament have it in them.

Strumms

Deleted User wrote: »

A good measured response from O'Callaghan in so far as an email allows.

Bruton's response is pathetic, " they will not be castles"...what kind of response is that from an elected official?

It’s almost an apology for them not being castles...

How long before RTÉ a state body are advertising for camera operators, and in an advertisement online and in the newspapers...

“We are advising that only individuals of a non Irish ethnicity may apply. This is due to the over proliferation of Irish and white peoples working for RTÉ currently, thanks for your understanding.”

Why the sweet fûck are we just handing and giving up and away our country, our opportunity, our resources to what are in the main, people who have migrated here for economic resources and reasons... totally sold down river by FG ( no surprise there anyway ) and political entities in ivory and gated towers, with pensions due to them which is in excess of the average annual wage... but happy to fûck us the citizens, head first under a bus.