Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

Doctor Roast

Strumms wrote: »

It’s almost an apology for them not being castles...

How long before RTÉ a state body are advertising for camera operators, and in an advertisement online and in the newspapers...

“We are advising that only individuals of a non Irish ethnicity may apply. This is due to the over proliferation of Irish and white peoples working for RTÉ currently, thanks for your understanding.”

Why the sweet fûck are we just handing and giving up and away our country, our opportunity, our resources to what are in the main, people who have migrated here for economic resources and reasons... totally sold down river by FG ( no surprise there anyway ) and political entities in ivory and gated towers, with pensions due to them which is in excess of the average annual wage... but happy to fûck us the citizens, head first under a bus.

We are very very far from what this country was founded on. Infact we're in self destruct mode.

Chips Lovell

Gunmonkey wrote: »

And can assume Bruton meant by the "we had a mandate from electorate" is something like;


"If elected, we will address the direct provision system!"

and noting else; no details, no info, just "we will look into it" and claim that the people voted for this.

In fairness to Bruton this time, the Green Party manifesto included this:

Work towards ending Direct Provision and replacing it with a not for profit system based on accommodation provided through existing or new approved housing bodies. At the same time, implement all the recommendations of the McMahon Report to improve conditions for Asylum Seekers currently living in the system.

So in this instance, at least one of the government parties had a commitment that was fairly in line with what is now being proposed. Anyone who voted for the Green Party at least should be unsurprised that this is the outcome.

punisher5112

So basically my take on this is they can still be in the likes of hotels etc as own door into room, they are seperate living quarters compared to shared which I doubt there is.

So basically a person working hard, can't afford to or wouldn't get a mortgage at this time have to house share, pay a good chunk for the displeasure too....

Arrive into the country and get your own living quarters, at zero cost to you..... Free medical, medication, cash, heat, food, clothing etc.


Yes well done gubernment we will end up with more then ever....


Near thinking of going off on a flight, lose my passport and get to live for free.

decreds

Strumms wrote: »

It’s almost an apology for them not being castles...

How long before RTÉ a state body are advertising for camera operators, and in an advertisement online and in the newspapers...

“We are advising that only individuals of a non Irish ethnicity may apply. This is due to the over proliferation of Irish and white peoples working for RTÉ currently, thanks for your understanding.”

Why the sweet fûck are we just handing and giving up and away our country, our opportunity, our resources to what are in the main, people who have migrated here for economic resources and reasons... totally sold down river by FG ( no surprise there anyway ) and political entities in ivory and gated towers, with pensions due to them which is in excess of the average annual wage... but happy to fûck us the citizens, head first under a bus.

Here here, our ancestors would be turning in their graves.


Who coined the term " Fighting Irish", it certainly isn't relevant in modern day Ireland when the native Irish will soon be extinct within a few generations thanks to government policies.


Nation of cowards

decreds

punisher5112 wrote: »

So basically my take on this is they can still be in the likes of hotels etc as own door into room, they are seperate living quarters compared to shared which I doubt there is.

So basically a person working hard, can't afford to or wouldn't get a mortgage at this time have to house share, pay a good chunk for the displeasure too....

Arrive into the country and get your own living quarters, at zero cost to you..... Free medical, medication, cash, heat, food, clothing etc.


Yes well done gubernment we will end up with more then ever....


Near thinking of going off on a flight, lose my passport and get to live for free.

The floodgates have been opened even more thanks to these self destructing policies.

rgossip30

jmreire wrote: »

Strange, but I have no memory of canvassers mentioning direct provision. asylum seekers , or immigration issues during the last election campaign?? Yet all Parties now have a mandate?

I mentioned this to a FF canvasser and got the reply the Irish went to America to seek a better life . He eventually called me a crank . The leftover like to say its not an important issue and people are not interested . I wonder how bad does it have to get before a wake up call . A referendum on the issue would be more appropriate instead of the proposal to give ex pats the vote .

TomTomTim

rgossip30 wrote: »

I mentioned this to a FF canvasser and got the reply the Irish went to America to seek a better life . He eventually called me a crank . The leftover like to say its not an important issue and people are not interested . I wonder how bad does it have to get before a wake up call . A referendum on the issue would be more appropriate instead of the proposal to give ex pats the vote .

“A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him, saying, 'You are mad; you are not like us.” ― St. Antony the Great

Strumms

Doctor Roast wrote: »

We are very very far from what this country was founded on. Infact we're in self destruct mode.

It certainly feels like that.

The gas thing you have all the SF heads advocating more hand outs and open doors and open wallets to people from different countries...

However that mob and so far from the ideals of true Republicanism..

"the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland"

a guarantee of "religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its CITIZENS",

“We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible. The long usurpation of that right by a foreign people and government has not extinguished the right, nor can it ever be extinguished except by the destruction of the Irish people”..

That’s not something scrawled on a cornflakes box, it’s a document, a legal one.., that is being shredded.

Does anyone else feel like a completely blank cheque has been written to Roderick O'Gorman, where is this money coming from? His department seems to be handling all the payments for everything associated with this. It seems crazy that the dept of children and the dept of housing will now be competing with one another for places, presumably the dept of children will always be able to pull the "we have a 4 month deadline" card.

There will be capacity for 2k people at these reception centres, if people move out every 4 months (or less) then there could be more than 6k people going through them a year.

I for one do not think there will be any period of time where beds are allowed to be empty or there is allowed to be spare capacity.

punisher5112

rgossip30 wrote: »

I mentioned this to a FF canvasser and got the reply the Irish went to America to seek a better life . He eventually called me a crank . The leftover like to say its not an important issue and people are not interested . I wonder how bad does it have to get before a wake up call . A referendum on the issue would be more appropriate instead of the proposal to give ex pats the vote .

It's a pity that these folk are well educated but the dumbest of all....

Yes Irish left to work, left to try and better themselves and survive.....

They didn't get handouts after handout and free food, housing, infinity on medical care and education etc etc....

The USA sure wants rid of those there illegally but yet they're working, I can understand why they want them out as they went the wrong way.

It seems to me here though, come here illegally it's near impossible to ever have to leave.

Doctor Roast

Strumms wrote: »

It certainly feels like that.

The gas thing you have all the SF heads advocating more hand outs and open doors and open wallets to people from different countries...

However that mob and so far from the ideals of true Republicanism..

"the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland"

a guarantee of "religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its CITIZENS",

“We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible. The long usurpation of that right by a foreign people and government has not extinguished the right, nor can it ever be extinguished except by the destruction of the Irish people”..

That’s not something scrawled on a cornflakes box, it’s a document, a legal one.., that is being shredded.

That's exactly the lines of the proclamation I was thinking of when I posted my comment

TomTomTim

punisher5112 wrote: »

It's a pity that these folk are well educated but the dumbest of all....

Yes Irish left to work, left to try and better themselves and survive.....

They didn't get handouts after handout and free food, housing, infinity on medical care and education etc etc....

The USA sure wants rid of those there illegally but yet they're working, I can understand why they want them out as they went the wrong way.

It seems to me here though, come here illegally it's near impossible to ever have to leave.

I've always said it, anyone who believes in collective guilt/responsibility is both dangerous and stupid. It's actually disgusting to try and shame people over the actions of their ancestors, as they had no control over them. Regardless, like you've just hit on, it's not one bit analogous to the current situation. There was a need for workers most places the Irish ended up, there's no need for the people coming to our shores now, regardless of the spin. On top of that, the Irish didn't want or need hand outs, they fought hard to gain their place in society; it was never handed to them.

Strumms

TomTomTim wrote: »

I've always said it, anyone who believes in collective guilt/responsibility is both dangerous and stupid. It's actually disgusting to try and shame people over the actions of their ancestors, as they had no control over them. Regardless, like you've just hit on, it's not one bit analogous to the current situation. There was a need for workers most places the Irish ended up, there's no need for the people coming to our shores now, regardless of the spin. On top of that, the Irish didn't want or need hand outs, they fought hard to gain their place in society; it was never handed to them.

If you want to go to the USA, you apply, they decide if you are able to come.. either for a holiday or to live...The American citizens control their country.

We don’t control ours, anymore... not nearly...

Our health and wellbeing is decided by bureaucrats in other countries. Mad.

decreds

TomTomTim wrote: »

I've always said it, anyone who believes in collective guilt/responsibility is both dangerous and stupid. It's actually disgusting to try and shame people over the actions of their ancestors, as they had no control over them. Regardless, like you've just hit on, it's not one bit analogous to the current situation. There was a need for workers most places the Irish ended up, there's no need for the people coming to our shores now, regardless of the spin. On top of that, the Irish didn't want or need hand outs, they fought hard to gain their place in society; it was never handed to them.

This.


Sick and tired of explaining the difference to those that are so woefully ignorant and pull the " Muh de Irish moved to America bla blah blah" card in a pathetic attempt to compare immigrants who work and contribute vs those who do nothing but leech resources.

Doctor Roast

Strumms wrote: »

If you want to go to the USA, you apply, they decide if you are able to come.. either for a holiday or to live...The American citizens control their country.

We don’t control ours, anymore... not nearly...

Our health and wellbeing is decided by bureaucrats in other countries. Mad.

Yeah it completely flies in the face of this...

"We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible. The long usurpation of that right by a foreign people and government has not extinguished the right, nor can it ever be extinguished except by the destruction of the Irish people”..

decreds

Doctor Roast wrote: »

Yeah it completely flies in the face of this...

"We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible. The long usurpation of that right by a foreign people and government has not extinguished the right, nor can it ever be extinguished except by the destruction of the Irish people”..

The only way out of this is to exit the EU (as bad as it sounds), if we don't there won't be much of Ireland left in 10/20 years.

punisher5112

decreds wrote: »

The only way out of this is to exit the EU (as bad as it sounds), if we don't there won't be much of Ireland left in 10/20 years.

Won't be a hope, so much money owed, we will never be able to pay it back, they're throwing money at us over this covid.

Crazy

Doctor Roast

decreds wrote: »

The only way out of this is to exit the EU (as bad as it sounds), if we don't there won't be much of Ireland left in 10/20 years.

Oh I know that, I've been saying it for years, it's just convincing the fumblers in the greasy till...

We've been sleepwalking towards this the last few years

A country to call home, a place of rich culture, heritage or a mixed up melting pot the same as every other mixed up melting pot, with no social cohesion, high crime, sexual assaults and more than likely terror attacks

ThunbergsAreGo

rgossip30 wrote: »

I mentioned this to a FF canvasser and got the reply the Irish went to America to seek a better life . He eventually called me a crank . The leftover like to say its not an important issue and people are not interested . I wonder how bad does it have to get before a wake up call . A referendum on the issue would be more appropriate instead of the proposal to give ex pats the vote .

Almost a third of the country voted against gay marriage and abortion (I personally didn't), but you would think politicians realise their Twitter time line isn't real life

Strumms

decreds wrote: »

The only way out of this is to exit the EU (as bad as it sounds), if we don't there won't be much of Ireland left in 10/20 years.

There won’t be much left, of our identity, our wealth, services or collective wellbeing... we’ll be working harder, paying higher taxes and be less well off for the privilege...

What we could do is seek to float the idea of an alternative Union...a breakaway... annex the problem nations, leave them stranded... if they don’t listen, leave...

Form the likes of an EU2, a more democratic EU... set the rules, policy for the Europe of today, with the goal of helping the citizens in the EU... anybody outside...we can help but we decide how many and how and when..

decreds

Strumms wrote: »

There won’t be much left, of our identity, our wealth, services or collective wellbeing... we’ll be working harder, paying higher taxes and be less well off for the privilege...

What we could do is seek to float the idea of an alternative Union...a breakaway... annex the problem nations, leave them stranded... if they don’t listen, leave...

Form the likes of an EU2, a more democratic EU... set the rules, policy for the Europe of today, with the goal of helping the citizens in the EU... anybody outside...we can help but we decide how many and how and when..

That's too logical, not a hope it would happen.

TomTomTim

Strumms wrote: »

There won’t be much left, of our identity, our wealth, services or collective wellbeing... we’ll be working harder, paying higher taxes and be less well off for the privilege...

What we could do is seek to float the idea of an alternative Union...a breakaway... annex the problem nations, leave them stranded... if they don’t listen, leave...

Form the likes of an EU2, a more democratic EU... set the rules, policy for the Europe of today, with the goal of helping the citizens in the EU... anybody outside...we can help but we decide how many and how and when..

I'm as anti EU as can be, I hate the centralized power, the "democracy", the ridiculous court rulings, and the immigration policies. Saying all of that, if we were kicked out of the union tomorrow for some reason, the train of madness that we're on would likely continue as is.

I've said it before, but it comes down to the collective insecurity of the Irish. The Irish have a deep need to be loved on the global stage, and getting said "love" in the modern world means doing whatever everyone else is at. Policies in this country have never been about sense, and have nearly always been about going along with the crowd regardless of the sanity of the crowd.

Strumms

decreds wrote: »

That's too logical, not a hope it would happen.

I think it won’t either... anytime soon.

You have the more lunatic elements of the left who just want open doors, open borders and open banks to pay and house these folks with...

When there isn’t a bean left to replace trains, build roads and other infrastructure as well as to maintain a functional healthcare system for us the taxpayers ( it’s already creaking) and that’s pre covid.. they’ll begin to change their tune..

When their sick parent after a stroke is hoping for funding to get into the NRH so they can walk again, after a stroke, nerve disorder, car crash.... and get told NO...

Yet see us facilitate ‘new arrivals’ with homes, transport, cash, Heath, clothing .... hmmmmm

What other country can I go to and they build me a home, pay me a wage for doing nada and free state of the art healthcare... FREE ???

1800_Ladladlad

Response from Deputy Emer Higgins, FG.

Thank you for your email and for getting in touch to share your thoughts on the white paper on direct provision.

I understand you are frustrated so I have sought further clarification on some of the issues you have raised.

The Tánaiste, Leo Varadkar has stated that the aim of the White Paper is to ensure that applicants for International Protection are treated fairly and respectfully while applying for protection, and that their basic needs are met.

But he has also acknowledged that Irish citizens and taxpayers have a right to expect an International Protection system that is efficient in both time and cost and that is not open to abuse. Scrutiny of applicants and sincerity of people seeking refuge will be a feature of the revised programme.

Under the new system, applicants who avail of State-provided accommodation will initially be accommodated in a Reception and Integration Centre for up to 4 months. If the application process for refugee status or international protection has not concluded within the four months, the applicant – single people and families – will be moved to State-provided accommodation in cities and towns.

However, the aim of this revised system will be to help people live independently as soon as possible.

This programme will be run completely separate from the current social and public housing programme, both of which are ongoing. The main point is that this programme will not replace or infringe on any other commitments in the programme for government.

Many people who have come to Ireland as refugees have become citizens and are now working in many of the sectors that have proved essential during the Covid-19 pandemic, and this is the ultimate goal of the revised direct provision system.

I hope that this will alleviate some of your concerns and I will continue to take your views into consideration .

Thank you and stay safe,
Emer.
Deputy Emer Higgins

FFs. I'm taking a breather before responding.

1800_Ladladlad

Response from Neal Richmond FG.

The new building and acquiring of accommodation for asylum seekers will be additional to our current housing stock.

The Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth will go about building six new Reception Centres and as part of the second phase, the Department will engage with Approved Housing Bodies or other not-for-profit groups regarding the building and acquiring of new accommodation.

We have a responsibility to ensure that those who come to Ireland to seek International Protection are treated with respect and fairly.

The purpose of this move is not to take anything away from the Irish people. Irish people and taxpayers have a right to expect an International Protection system that is efficient in terms of time and cost, that protects our security and is not open to abuse.

I am supportive of ending Direct Provision and the introduction of a new, fairer system.

1800_Ladladlad

Response from Darragh O'Brien FF.

I warmly welcome the publication of the White Paper which sets out how the Government is going to end Direct Provision. Existing Direct Provision Centres will be closed on a phased basis between now and the end of 2024. As we know this change will take time and the process of moving from the current system will be complex. However, it is important that we immediately begin to create a more humane system, rooted in human rights.

The Department of Children propose to provide six bespoke accommodation reception centres to accommodate 2,000 persons and additional accommodation which will be largely built and acquired for 3,500 persons in the community. This will be provided by Minister O’Gorman’s Department with the support of the Housing Agency, which comes under the remit of my Department, who will provide their expert advice on sourcing, delivery and management of housing and accommodation. The Housing Agency may also provide direct assistance with the delivery of housing accommodation and technical support on projects as required. Local authorities will, through existing locally based inter-agency resettlement groups (which will be expanded) play an important role in relation to assisting with community integration and service supports.

As is always the case, when applicants for international protection are successful they become eligible, subject to normal eligibility criteria, for mainstream State supports. There will be no change to the current practice whereby those eligible for social housing support are assisted by local authorities with their move from IP accommodation to mainstream accommodation within communities. This is an important feature of the existing process and will continue so as to ensure that the new IP accommodation to be provided in the community continues to be available for new IP applicants.

My focus is on driving down homelessness figures, providing more social housing and delivering affordable housing and cost rental. The Programme for Government has committed to increasing social housing stock by more than 50,000, with an emphasis on delivering new build homes. To realise this ambition the Government has provided €3.3 billion for housing delivery in 2021 – the single largest housing budget in the history of the state. I want to see people who are waiting years on social housing lists across the country, in homes - that’s why we have such ambitious plans.

1800_Ladladlad

Response from Jim O'Callaghan FF

I previously was a member of the Justice Committee and we produced a report on direct provision. Very many of the direct provision centres are of a good quality. Others are of a poor quality. However, they were never intended for long term occupation.

The primary objective of the State should be to speed up the process whereby people apply for international protection. I have stated previously that if a person seeking international protection is given priority over people waiting on local authority housing lists that this will cause severe tension and will be very damaging. I think it should not occur. Nonetheless, I believe we should improve the quality of accommodation for those seeking international protection. The primary objective, however, must be to speed up the process so that somebody can get an answer as to whether they’re entitled to stay in the country or not within a much shorter period of time than operates at present.

1800_Ladladlad

Response from Josepha Madigan FG.

I appreciate your views on the above white paper. It is interesting to see the Department of Housing have signalled their misgivings about the proposal.

We’ll await with interest.

1800_Ladladlad

Response from John Lahart FF

I want to particularly thank you for taking the time to write in such detail to me with your views regarding the governments new approach to direct provision. I am satisfied that these proposals are for accommodation over and above what the state provides already for people on our lengthy waiting lists.

I am very much aware in my constituency that there are many thousands of people on our housing list locally, most of whom have been waiting for accommodation for many years. I know that the Minister and government is acutely aware of this also.

You will agree that action had to be taken with regard to the system of Direct Provision, which can see people housed in what any civilized society would recognize as unacceptable conditions. It simply had to dealt with.

I encourage you, if you haven’t already done so, to read the Executive Summary of the document and then let me have your own views

Strumms

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Response from Neal Richmond FG.

Additional stock ? Ok, so where does the additional cash come to build the additional stock ?

Additional taxes ? Additional service denials to Irish taxpayers ?