Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

zell12

I had a quick google
https://twitter.com/NationalPartyIE/status/1067914484147265537?s=20

Sharpyshoot

Google is a bad lad this hour of the morning.

DerekC16

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

"But nowhere does Project Ireland 2040 mention that this population growth will be achieved by “importing” migrants to Ireland, from Africa or otherwise"

So he never actually said he wants 500,000 non Irish to come in.

Just what I thought, thanks.

Have you a link to the full transcript?

Cheers.

500,000 non irish will be coming in and simple Simon said it's a good thing.

Jinglejangle69

zell12 wrote: »

I had a quick google
https://twitter.com/NationalPartyIE/status/1067914484147265537?s=20

So they estimate that's the increase.

Not that they want to increase it by bringing in immigrants.

That's exactly my point, thanks

TomTomTim

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

So they estimate that's the increase.

Not that they want to increase it by bringing in immigrants.

That's exactly my point, thanks

It's not much of a point though. It's not a leap to imply it will happen via immigration. Irish people aren't exactly popping out children, so where will the numbers come from? Will some natives just drop from the sky to fill the targeted goal? If our masters showed any desire to quell immigration numbers your point would be stronger, but they do everything to facilitate and continue more and more immigration to Ireland. The new asylum seeker policy lends great support to that theory, as the numbers will likely rise.

Tea drinker

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

So they estimate that's the increase.

Not that they want to increase it by bringing in immigrants.

That's exactly my point, thanks

Well surely they want to increase it if 50% of the increase is deliberately?
So in the same week the Gov are signing binding agreements about emissions, we are working hard to massively increase emissions, and the Green Party is on board with this. One car per village... we should be so lucky! Ah here I need to go have a sleep :pac:

jmreire

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

So they estimate that's the increase.

Not that they want to increase it by bringing in immigrants.

That's exactly my point, thanks

The whole point is that they want to increase the population by that amount...basically by hook or by crook. So we have to increase the base of the pyrimid to maintain the same standard of pensions etc. And if you follow this line of reasoning, then the base will have to be in permanent increase mode, as they in turn retire.

punisher5112

jmreire wrote: »

The whole point is that they want to increase the population by that amount...basically by hook or by crook. So we have to increase the base of the pyrimid to maintain the same standard of pensions etc. And if you follow this line of reasoning, then the base will have to be in permanent increase mode, as they in turn retire.

But the biggest issue is, most of these will never work, why would they.

WrenBoy

jmreire wrote: »

The whole point is that they want to increase the population by that amount...basically by hook or by crook. So we have to increase the base of the pyrimid to maintain the same standard of pensions etc. And if you follow this line of reasoning, then the base will have to be in permanent increase mode, as they in turn retire.

I believe its called a "reverse funnel system".
Not, I repeat, not a Pyramid Scheme.

OneEightSeven

Irish writer-director Frank Berry is creating a propaganda movie about Direct Provision.

https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2021/0318/1204761-wright-to-star-in-movie-on-irelands-asylum-system/

Letitia Wright is set to play a young woman battling Ireland's asylum system in an upcoming drama from Irish writer-director Frank Berry.

The 27-year-old Black Panther actor will star alongside The Crown's Josh O'Connor in the new Irish indie film called Provision, according to The Hollywood Reporter.
The Crown's Josh O'Connor will also star in the upcoming movie

The entertainment website says the movie will "tell the story of Ishtar Deresse (Wright), a young African woman fleeing persecution from criminals in her home country of Nigeria due to drug debts her deceased brother left behind. She spends over two years in Ireland's asylum system, and during this time she stays at various remote and over-crowded centers around the country, where she lives under a constant threat of deportation.

"After watching the family she shared a room with be deported, Ishtar is approached by a new security guard Conor Healy (O'Connor) who, feeling guilty about his involvement in the deportation, offers her the use of the kitchen at night to cook her own food. Having spent time in prison, Conor empathises with the residents, and in particular with Ishtar’s traumatic past.

"The more Ishtar and Conor learn about each other, the more their friendship develops. However their growing connection, and any possibility of a future together comes under frequent threat and disruption in an environment where asylum seekers are deemed to be just numbers in a dehumanizing system."

Provision is slated to start filming in Ireland next month.

Kivaro

OneEightSeven wrote: »

Irish writer-director Frank Berry is creating a propaganda movie about Direct Provision.

https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2021/0318/1204761-wright-to-star-in-movie-on-irelands-asylum-system/

So family drug debts are now a legitimate reason to get asylum in Ireland?
By 2050, the population of Nigeria is projected to be well over 400 million people. For whatever reason (or for obvious reasons), Ireland is a very popular destination for Nigerian asylum seekers, but we just cannot accept everyone from that country who have issues with drug debts or criminals.

We should have a system in place that if citizens of Nigeria or any other country who want asylum in Ireland, then they need to apply at the nearest Irish consulate to them. If someone has enough money to fly into Ireland from another safe country and declare asylum at Dublin airport, then that should result in an immediate rejection. Apply in the country where you currently reside. I will ask again why Denmark is seeking to stop all asylum into their country? The Danes are not far-right monsters so there must a genuine reason why they feel the need to stop the asylum influx.

jmreire

punisher5112 wrote: »

But the biggest issue is, most of these will never work, why would they.

In fairness, not all Asylum seekers and Immigrants play the system, but if even a small % play the system, then it is too much. And especially when added to the home grown non-productive members of our own society.

jmreire

jmreire wrote: »

In fairness, not all Asylum seekers and Immigrants play the system, but if even a small % play the system, then it is too much. And especially when added to the home grown non-productive members of our own society.

TBH, my problem still comes back to employment. Assuming that migrants want to work.. and I believe that most do want to work (Ireland is an expensive country to live in, and most migrants won't want to be poor here).

Where are all the initiatives to create new businesses that will provide the employment for all these new migrants? Quite often, RTE news will announce when a company opens up providing 200 new jobs, but they don't announce such things often.. which begs the question whether there are new jobs being created in the numbers to provide for our migrants. And yes, Brexit will likely be good for Ireland in generating employment, but we'll also be getting British people coming here to fill those jobs (due to our existing agreements). [I'm assuming that all the people currently unemployed due to covid will find work again]

And while there are calls to improve our education, and provide opportunities to upskill people, I'd wonder just how much our education system has actually expanded to cater the needs of migrants to gain these necessary skills for working in a first world nation.

So.. I do wonder where all these jobs will come from? Considering the expected or desired numbers of migrants, we would want a substantial increase in jobs here, but where are all these new positions?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

TBH, my problem still comes back to employment. Assuming that migrants want to work.. and I believe that most do want to work (Ireland is an expensive country to live in, and most migrants won't want to be poor here).

Where are all the initiatives to create new businesses that will provide the employment for all these new migrants? Quite often, RTE news will announce when a company opens up providing 200 new jobs, but they don't announce such things often.. which begs the question whether there are new jobs being created in the numbers to provide for our migrants. And yes, Brexit will likely be good for Ireland in generating employment, but we'll also be getting British people coming here to fill those jobs (due to our existing agreements). [I'm assuming that all the people currently unemployed due to covid will find work again]

And while there are calls to improve our education, and provide opportunities to upskill people, I'd wonder just how much our education system has actually expanded to cater the needs of migrants to gain these necessary skills for working in a first world nation.

So.. I do wonder where all these jobs will come from? Considering the expected or desired numbers of migrants, we would want a substantial increase in jobs here, but where are all these new positions?

Good points..
But! Are asylum seekers actually poor here?
Like you or I who work might be poor.
Paying taxes , childcare, health, mortgages, rent, holidays, and education to name a few actually make you poor when all the bills are paid.
Do asylum seekers have to pay any of the above?
Maybe they arnt poor, once they get their house and benefits, not to mention the 6 children (allowance) maybe they are rich, or richer than they could be in their motherland.

rgossip30

Deleted User wrote: »

Good points..
But! Are asylum seekers actually poor here?
Like you or I who work might be poor.
Paying taxes , childcare, health, mortgages, rent, holidays, and education to name a few actually make you poor when all the bills are paid.
Do asylum seekers have to pay any of the above?
Maybe they arnt poor, once they get their house and benefits, not to mention the 6 children (allowance) maybe they are rich, or richer than they could be in their motherland.

I knew families thought they were in wonderland boasting look what I got . The novelty wears off and they find themselves wandering around in a strange land and bitter at the host .

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Good points..
But! Are asylum seekers actually poor here?
Like you or I who work might be poor.
Paying taxes , childcare, health, mortgages, rent, holidays, and education to name a few actually make you poor when all the bills are paid.
Do asylum seekers have to pay any of the above?
Maybe they arnt poor, once they get their house and benefits, not to mention the 6 children (allowance) maybe they are rich, or richer than they could be in their motherland.

I was referring to migrants, since Asylum seekers (even those accepted by the State) are still relatively low in population, in comparison to other migrant types. Often people refer to 'Asylum seekers' when talking about migrants, even when those migrants are accepted under humanitarian grounds. Asylum is still a pretty exclusive term.. a bit battered and abused in recent years, but it's not commonly used either (since most get refused).

As for Asylum seekers and the benefits, I don't know for how long they receive them, or whether they decline over time. As for being richer that in their homeland, the problem is that they're not there, and have to face the costs in Ireland. If they were receiving Irish benefits while living in Africa, that would be a different story.

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

Good points..
But! Are asylum seekers actually poor here?
Like you or I who work might be poor.
Paying taxes , childcare, health, mortgages, rent, holidays, and education to name a few actually make you poor when all the bills are paid.
Do asylum seekers have to pay any of the above?
Maybe they arnt poor, once they get their house and benefits, not to mention the 6 children (allowance) maybe they are rich, or richer than they could be in their motherland.

It depends, but generally, the asylums seekers who arrive here, fleeing war, would have been the ones who had a good life in their own Country pre war, and had the resources to make it here. I know several who have lost everything and even the best social security in the world would not replace that. The value to them, is the safety and security they have here. and not living the nightmare of bombs and bullets, food shortages, only intermittant electricity, living in the shell of a bombed out building, and wondering if today is your or a family member last day. That feeling can be worth more than all the money on the planet. But if the war ended, and stability returned, these people would be on the first plane / ship etc. back home to try and rebuild their lives. Now economic migrants.......there a horse of a different color entirely.

jmreire

WrenBoy wrote: »

I believe its called a "reverse funnel system".
Not, I repeat, not a Pyramid Scheme.

Ah, you mean more like a ponzi scheme then?

rgossip30

jmreire wrote: »

It depends, but generally, the asylums seekers who arrive here, fleeing war, would have been the ones who had a good life in their own Country pre war, and had the resources to make it here. I know several who have lost everything and even the best social security in the world would not replace that. The value to them, is the safety and security they have here. and not living the nightmare of bombs and bullets, food shortages, only intermittant electricity, living in the shell of a bombed out building, and wondering if today is your or a family member last day. That feeling can be worth more than all the money on the planet. But if the war ended, and stability returned, these people would be on the first plane / ship etc. back home to try and rebuild their lives. Now economic migrants.......there a horse of a different color entirely.

You make it sound easy return home with no money . The voluntary return is only a small amount unless they have a scheme with benefits .

rgossip30

rgossip30 wrote: »

You make it sound easy return home with no money . The voluntary return is only a small amount unless they have a scheme with benefits .

Except, Asylum isn't intended to profit people. It's supposed to provide safety and support them to a limited extent. Although, let's be honest here. They're getting their whole lifestyle supported completely by the State, including spending money for recreation and other costs (healthy psychology), so, if they're not saving some of that, then, they're idiots. And many of them manage to get jobs, either fixed or temporary, so.. nah.. I'm definitely not with the bleeding hearts brigade on this one.

And as for migrants, well... if they haven't managed to work and save.. then, that's on them. I'm an expat living in Asia, and I have zero supports. Anything I get, I get from working. There is no welfare here, no government supplements for foreigners, etc. If anything, I pay more overall because I'm a foreigner.

jmreire

rgossip30 wrote: »

You make it sound easy return home with no money . The voluntary return is only a small amount unless they have a scheme with benefits .

The point I'm making is that in the case of Syia, the majority of Syrians scattered around the world as a result of the war if given a choice, and the means to return home in safety, would do so. If for example IOM started repatriating displaced Syrians, they would return home in their thousands / millions. But the big problem is what awaits them if they return....the regime is still in power there.

ThunbergsAreGo

OneEightSeven wrote: »

Irish writer-director Frank Berry is creating a propaganda movie about Direct Provision.

https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2021/0318/1204761-wright-to-star-in-movie-on-irelands-asylum-system/

This reads like a spoof.

She escaped the drug dealers in Nigera (wonder will they even show that part) where she fled for her life. Now she must deal with BOREDOM, how will she survive, can she overcome this?? Can she prove her spurious claim and receive full benefits?

Gripping

clytemnestra

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

This reads like a spoof.

She escaped the drug dealers in Nigera (wonder will they even show that part) where she fled for her life. Now she must deal with BOREDOM, how will she survive, can she overcome this?? Can she prove her spurious claim and receive full benefits?

Gripping

Fleeing the drug dealers in Nigeria, a huge country of over 200 million people, yet which contains no place she can hide. Taking an expensive plane journey which most of her compatriots couldn't dream of being able to afford, not to Ireland directly because there are no direct flights. Tearing up her passport in a plane toilet, or simply hopping on a ferry at Holyhead where there are few ID checks. The story has got more holes than a slice of Emmentaler.

rgossip30

jmreire wrote: »

The point I'm making is that in the case of Syia, the majority of Syrians scattered around the world as a result of the war if given a choice, and the means to return home in safety, would do so. If for example IOM started repatriating displaced Syrians, they would return home in their thousands / millions. But the big problem is what awaits them if they return....the regime is still in power there.

Whats the option do it American style and dismantle the country like Libya .
Basher is not that bad they made the mistake and paid dearly for opposing him .

clytemnestra wrote: »

Fleeing the drug dealers in Nigeria, a huge country of over 200 million people, yet which contains no place she can hide. Taking an expensive plane journey which most of her compatriots couldn't dream of being able to afford, not to Ireland directly because there are no direct flights. Tearing up her passport in a plane toilet, or simply hopping on a ferry at Holyhead where there are few ID checks. The story has got more holes than a slice of Emmentaler.

Similar events actually happened tearing up passports is nothing new . They can also come to the UK on tourist or student visas wait until fingerprint and application records are destroyed come to Ireland and claim asylum .

Hi_thur_folks

Direct Prov was indeed intended as a deterrent.
The recent development re own key or whatever it’s called is tantamount to opening the borders. SMDH

Kivaro

Hi_thur_folks wrote: »

Direct Prov was indeed intended as a deterrent.
The recent development re own key or whatever it’s called is tantamount to opening the borders. SMDH

I would like to know who gave Roderic O' Gorman the mandate to officially declare that our borders are now open? The fact that he publicly announced that there will no cap to the numbers who will get their own homes in Ireland within 4 months of arriving here will inundate us with welfare/economic migrants from all over the world. Based on the Housing Department's report on the issue, asylum seekers will still live for free in these homes even if their applications are rejected after numerous appeals. And don't forget that the official policy of the 2nd biggest political party in Ireland, Sinn Fein, states that no asylum seeker is deported for any reason from Ireland, even when their asylum application is deemed fraudulent, or after they commit murder, rapes etc. in this country.

The silence from our 'centrist' elected officials is deafening.

ThunbergsAreGo

Kivaro wrote: »

I would like to know who gave Roderic O' Gorman the mandate to officially declare that our borders are now open? The fact that he publicly announced that there will no cap to the numbers who will get their own homes in Ireland within 4 months of arriving here will inundate us with welfare/economic migrants from all over the world. Based on the Housing Department's report on the issue, asylum seekers will still live for free in these homes even if their applications are rejected after numerous appeals. And don't forget that the official policy of the 2nd biggest political party in Ireland, Sinn Fein, states that no asylum seeker is deported for any reason from Ireland, even when their asylum application is deemed fraudulent, or after they commit murder, rapes etc. in this country.

The silence from our 'centrist' elected officials is deafening.

No one will push back.

Look at our recent referendums almost all parties and media unashamedly on one side. I voted for both but honestly I thought the way pro life campaigners were treated was appalling - and they represented about a third of the country.

We will sleep walk into this madness by a lad who has never worked an honest day in his life. Another bit of evidence (along with ISAG etc) how divorced academics are from actual people.

Masala

Kivaro wrote: »

I would like to know who gave Roderic O' Gorman the mandate to officially declare that our borders are now open? The fact that he publicly announced that there will no cap to the numbers who will get their own homes in Ireland within 4 months of arriving here will inundate us with welfare/economic migrants from all over the world. Based on the Housing Department's report on the issue, asylum seekers will still live for free in these homes even if their applications are rejected after numerous appeals. And don't forget that the official policy of the 2nd biggest political party in Ireland, Sinn Fein, states that no asylum seeker is deported for any reason from Ireland, even when their asylum application is deemed fraudulent, or after they commit murder, rapes etc. in this country.

The silence from our 'centrist' elected officials is deafening.

I wrote to Leo Varadkar expressing my horror at how O’gorman is allowed to stick the country with this.... and to complain about my own adult children not being able to get on property ladder- even if they willing to pay ( but would prefer a free house if that’s going to be the new government policy fir asylum and refugees etc.).

I think we all need to get heavy on email and bambozzel our representatives on this.... get your disgust on record

jmreire

rgossip30 wrote: »

Whats the option do it American style and dismantle the country like Libya .
Basher is not that bad they made the mistake and paid dearly for opposing him .



Well, the Country is well and truly dismantled now, but you cannot blame the US, Russians? Yes, Turkey? Yes. isis? Yes? Iran? definitely!!Other Arabic states? Possibly, given the Shis / Sunni divide.
You claim that it was the Syrians own fault for opposing Assad..and that Bashar is not that bad......( or as the Irish say, "he was not the worst of them") if thats the case, for sure I'd hate to meet "the worst of them".
Why did they oppose him? Well, for one thing, prior to the start of the war, Syria had undergone 6 years of the worst draught they had ever known. ( Climate change) Crops had failed several years running, causing food shortages which in turn caused mass movement of people from the countryside to the city's. Which put the Citys under stress. The result were protests calling for help from the Government. When this help was not forthcoming, the protesters called for Assad to step down, and this is what triggered the war, and the destruction of Syria. The protesters knew very well what might happen, given Bashar's father, Hafiz response to the uprising by the Muslim Brotherhood in 1962, when he killed 40'000 people in the city of Hama. None the less, faced with starvation they felt they did not have a choice. The protests were peacefull to start with, then the shooting started,,,the regime say it was the Protesters who fired first, the protesters claim that the regime placed shooters amongst them. But which ever version you believe, 10 years later, its still not finished. And the death toll has far exceeded Hafiz's 40'000 Syrians,

TomTomTim

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

No one will push back.

Look at our recent referendums almost all parties and media unashamedly on one side. I voted for both but honestly I thought the way pro life campaigners were treated was appalling - and they represented about a third of the country.

We will sleep walk into this madness by a lad who has never worked an honest day in his life. Another bit of evidence (along with ISAG etc) how divorced academics are from actual people.

The thread on here was possibly the most one sided, highly vitriolic thread I've ever seen. There was no point even trying to argue against the mob, as they'd instantly label you a misogynist, whose only desire was to control women. That's the biggest issue with the extremist politics of the modern world, there's never a grey area, you're either an evil monster or righteous hero.