Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

biko

Kivaro wrote: »

I would like to know who gave Roderic O' Gorman the mandate to officially declare that our borders are now open?

To have Greens influencing immigration policy will have this effect.
Did FG/FF not see this coming?

Before he was minister he was the Green Party’s spokesperson on justice, and was critical of the fact the “government were very quick to pass the International Protection Act, which facilitates increased deportations”.

TomTomTim

The Immigration Council is looking for the state to waste even more money on their pet projects

THE IMMIGRANT COUNCIL of Ireland has called on the Government to introduce support measures, including access to legal advice and counselling services for those who become victims of racism.

Valeria Aquino, integration officer at the Immigrant Council said these services should be part of the upcoming National Action Plan Against Racism, and must be developed in partnership with civil society and funded by the State, as a matter of priority.

She said there is currently a lack of services to support victims of racism and discrimination, especially at the local level.

“Racism is a traumatising experience, and the least people deserve is access to quality support, regardless of where they are based,” she added.

The Immigrant Council is also advocating for the development of national standards for victims support. As part of this, it said it is working on a document and training for frontline staff on how to provide victim-centred support services for people experiencing racism.

I think I'm starting to agree with the American libertarian spirit when it comes taxes. A common sentiment among these types is: "taxation is theft". While I don't think that taxes are theft when spent on the people, I'm starting to think they are when they are not spent on the people. As it stands our country is spending an astronomical amount of money on things that none of us have asked for, and they must be held to account for this.

Eric Cartman

TomTomTim wrote: »

The Immigration Council is looking for the state to waste even more money on their pet projects



I think I'm starting to agree with the American libertarian spirit when it comes taxes. A common sentiment among these types is: "taxation is theft". While I don't think that taxes are theft when spent on the people, I'm starting to think they are when they are not spent on the people. As it stands our country is spending an astronomical amount of money on things that none of us have asked for, and they must be held to account for this.

when taxation funds absolute tripe like the above , it is theft.

ThunbergsAreGo

TomTomTim wrote: »

The Immigration Council is looking for the state to waste even more money on their pet projects



I think I'm starting to agree with the American libertarian spirit when it comes taxes. A common sentiment among these types is: "taxation is theft". While I don't think that taxes are theft when spent on the people, I'm starting to think they are when they are not spent on the people. As it stands our country is spending an astronomical amount of money on things that none of us have asked for, and they must be held to account for this.

Totally agree, I really don't care what people want to do or spend their money on. Just stop spending my money on "causes" that do nothing for the population.

Sure the NGO industry in Ireland is a joke. Way too much money given to them and way too fragmented with multiple CEOs etc all taking their piece of the pie.

Very very surprised comments are open still

ThunbergsAreGo

TomTomTim wrote: »

The thread on here was possibly the most one sided, highly vitriolic thread I've ever seen. There was no point even trying to argue against the mob, as they'd instantly label you a misogynist, whose only desire was to control women. That's the biggest issue with the extremist politics of the modern world, there's never a grey area, you're either an evil monster or righteous hero.

Thats one of the issues with DP. Treating more humanely and given people more chances is the right thing to do, we are in general a compassionate species.

But there is a tipping point where this starts negatively impacting Irish people and those that live there negatively.

As you said there is lots of nuance to most discussions, but in the black /white world of Ireland that's often lost.

Mules

rgossip30 wrote: »

Whats the option do it American style and dismantle the country like Libya .
Basher is not that bad they made the mistake and paid dearly for opposing him .



Well, the Country is well and truly dismantled now, but you cannot blame the US, Russians? Yes, Turkey? Yes. isis? Yes? Iran? definitely!!Other Arabic states? Possibly, given the Shis / Sunni divide.
You claim that it was the Syrians own fault for opposing Assad..and that Bashar is not that bad......( or as the Irish say, "he was not the worst of them") if thats the case, for sure I'd hate to meet "the worst of them".
Why did they oppose him? Well, for one thing, prior to the start of the war, Syria had undergone 6 years of the worst draught they had ever known. ( Climate change) Crops had failed several years running, causing food shortages which in turn caused mass movement of people from the countryside to the city's. Which put the Citys under stress. The result were protests calling for help from the Government. When this help was not forthcoming, the protesters called for Assad to step down, and this is what triggered the war, and the destruction of Syria. The protesters knew very well what might happen, given Bashar's father, Hafiz response to the uprising by the Muslim Brotherhood in 1962, when he killed 40'000 people in the city of Hama. None the less, faced with starvation they felt they did not have a choice. The protests were peacefull to start with, then the shooting started,,,the regime say it was the Protesters who fired first, the protesters claim that the regime placed shooters amongst them. But which ever version you believe, 10 years later, its still not finished. And the death toll has far exceeded Hafiz's 40'000 Syrians,

I think the worst thing is all the foreign support for different groups. Without foreign interference all sides would have ran out of money and arms years ago.

We were a lot more fortunate than most countries with our own civil war. The government were provided with arms by the UK and the anti treaty side weren't. Whatever your politics are, it put an end to the thing fairly quickly.

jmreire

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

This reads like a spoof.

She escaped the drug dealers in Nigera (wonder will they even show that part) where she fled for her life. Now she must deal with BOREDOM, how will she survive, can she overcome this?? Can she prove her spurious claim and receive full benefits?

Gripping

Imagine the effect it will have on Nigerians when it debuts in Abuja......will really do wonders for the irish tourist industry .

Mules

TomTomTim wrote: »

The thread on here was possibly the most one sided, highly vitriolic thread I've ever seen. There was no point even trying to argue against the mob, as they'd instantly label you a misogynist, whose only desire was to control women. That's the biggest issue with the extremist politics of the modern world, there's never a grey area, you're either an evil monster or righteous hero.

I agree. I don't like to make emotional decisions. The vitriol about these things always surprises me. I do think that's because people are letting their emotions make their decisions for them. Another problem is that emotions are easily manipulated.

Sand

TomTomTim wrote: »

The Immigration Council is looking for the state to waste even more money on their pet projects



I think I'm starting to agree with the American libertarian spirit when it comes taxes. A common sentiment among these types is: "taxation is theft". While I don't think that taxes are theft when spent on the people, I'm starting to think they are when they are not spent on the people. As it stands our country is spending an astronomical amount of money on things that none of us have asked for, and they must be held to account for this.

US libertarian ideology is essentially a trap. Groups exercise power by controlling the government and making policy. Libertarian ideology misdirects dissent against bad/harmful policies into a useless thought exercise which rejects the whole concept of controlling government/power to make good/helpful policies. Meanwhile, non-libertarian groups continue to wield power and make policy.

Galwayguy35

TomTomTim wrote: »

The Immigration Council is looking for the state to waste even more money on their pet projects



I think I'm starting to agree with the American libertarian spirit when it comes taxes. A common sentiment among these types is: "taxation is theft". While I don't think that taxes are theft when spent on the people, I'm starting to think they are when they are not spent on the people. As it stands our country is spending an astronomical amount of money on things that none of us have asked for, and they must be held to account for this.

So surprise its The Journal running that article.

No doubt The Irish Times will be hot on their heels with something similar.

jmreire

Mules wrote: »

I think the worst thing is all the foreign support for different groups. Without foreign interference all sides would have ran out of money and arms years ago.

We were a lot more fortunate than most countries with our own civil war. The government were provided with arms by the UK and the anti treaty side weren't. Whatever your politics are, it put an end to the thing fairly quickly.

Well as in any war, the better armed and equipped will generally win the day. And in Ireland's case, it did bring an end to the war, and peace, even if to this day there remains disagreements. But we have had peace and stability now for a long time.
Syria, on the other hand is in the middle east and surrounded by Turkey, Cyprus, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Israel, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, Jordan, Egypt, Sudan, Libya, etc. And each of these Countrys have vested interests in Syria. Add the internal dynamics of each of them competing for their own interests in what is a volatile part of the world at the best of times, then throw avaricious weapons manufacturers into the mix, and this is what you get.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I hear you but natural increase last year was 27,000, it is dropping every year, it won't be 30,000 ever again and will fall every year. Also last year Irish immigration was neutral, neither positive or negative, for the years before that I believe it was negative, so that makes the numbers even worse than I projected earlier.

Net immigration last year was + 29000, two thirds of which came from outside the EU

And what proportion of deaths were of Irish. And what proportion of births were to Irish parents?
Within 20 years the country will likely be minority 3rd generation Irish at the rate we're going.

Feadog999

Responses to my email on this have been abysmal. I've emailed 27 politicians (mainly TDs) and have received a grand total of 3 responses (except the generic we acknowledge receipt of your email from a few of them). There is a total unwillingness across all parties in the Dail to discuss these issues.

Micheal Martin: No reply
Leo Varadkar: No reply
Jack Chambers: No reply
Eamon Ryan: No reply
Mary Lou MacDonald: No reply
Pearse Doherty: No reply
Alan Kelly: No reply
Richard O'Donaghue: No reply
Peadair Tobin: No reply
Micheal McGrath: No reply
Paschal Donohoe: No reply forwarded to Helen McEntee's office
Dara Calleary: No reply
Helen McEntee: No reply
Kieran O'Donnell: No reply
Darragh O'Brien: No reply
Roderic O'Gorman: No reply
Michael McNamara: No reply
Michael Creed: No reply
John Cummins: No reply
Paul McAulifee: No reply
Victor Boyhan: No reply
Catherine Martin: No reply
Simon Coventry: No reply

Mules

Feadog999 wrote: »

Responses to my email on this have been abysmal. I've emailed 27 politicians (mainly TDs) and have received a grand total of 3 responses (except the generic we acknowledge receipt of your email from a few of them). There is a total unwillingness across all parties in the Dail to discuss these issues.

Micheal Martin: No reply
Leo Varadkar: No reply
Jack Chambers: No reply
Eamon Ryan: No reply
Mary Lou MacDonald: No reply
Pearse Doherty: No reply
Alan Kelly: No reply
Richard O'Donaghue: No reply
Peadair Tobin: No reply
Micheal McGrath: No reply
Paschal Donohoe: No reply forwarded to Helen McEntee's office
Dara Calleary: No reply
Helen McEntee: No reply
Kieran O'Donnell: No reply
Darragh O'Brien: No reply
Roderic O'Gorman: No reply
Michael McNamara: No reply
Michael Creed: No reply
John Cummins: No reply
Paul McAulifee: No reply
Victor Boyhan: No reply
Catherine Martin: No reply
Simon Coventry: No reply

Most of mine got no replies either. They seem determined to bury their heads in the sand. The one td who really engaged with me on it seemed surprised that anyone would have a problem with it.

Kivaro

Mules wrote: »

Most of mine got no replies either. They seem determined to bury their heads in the sand. The one td who really engaged with me on it seemed surprised that anyone would have a problem with it.

People like that are detached from reality. They believe everything that the highly paid asylum lobbyists tell them. They have this depiction in their heads that every single asylum seeker hails from war-torn Syria, and every single one of them deserves their own free home after arriving in Ireland. The reality is that the majority of asylum seekers, and the overwhelming vast majority of those who fly into Ireland from another safe country, are not genuine asylum seekers. Yet they will still get their free homes a good deal faster than current Irish citizens on housing lists, and welfare for life too if they so wish. And then the reunification programme kicks in where every single asylum seeker can invite all of their relatives to our obviously very wealthy country, and each one of them in turn will be rewarded with their free homes and accompanying social services.

When Roderic O' Gorman announced to the world recently that there would no cap to the number of people from all around the world who can come to Ireland and avail of this lotto-like-winning opportunity, then those of us who will be paying the cost for this insanity need to stand against it. Looking at the calibre of the politicians currently in Leinster House, it does not surprise me that they do not have the backbone to speak out against this obviously biased and discriminatory (against Irish citizens) plan.

Feadog999

Kivaro wrote: »

People like that are detached from reality. They believe everything that the highly paid asylum lobbyists tell them. They have this depiction in their heads that every single asylum seeker hails from war-torn Syria, and every single one of them deserves their own free home after arriving in Ireland. The reality is that the majority of asylum seekers, and the overwhelming vast majority of those who fly into Ireland from another safe country, are not genuine asylum seekers. Yet they will still get their free homes a good deal faster than current Irish citizens on housing lists, and welfare for life too if they so wish. And then the reunification programme kicks in where every single asylum seeker can invite all of their relatives to our obviously very wealthy country, and each one of them in turn will be rewarded with their free homes and accompanying social services.

When Roderic O' Gorman announced to the world recently that there would no cap to the number of people from all around the world who can come to Ireland and avail of this lotto-like-winning opportunity, then those of us who will be paying the cost for this insanity need to stand against it. Looking at the calibre of the politicians currently in Leinster House, it does not surprise me that they do not have the backbone to speak out against this obviously biased and discriminatory (against Irish citizens) plan.

Are NGOs government funded? Or does funding come from elsewhere? Had a quick Google there and it dosent seem like they disclose any annual reports or large funders. Admittedly, I don't know many of the NGOs.

jay0109

Feadog999 wrote: »

Are NGOs government funded? Or does funding come from elsewhere? Had a quick Google there and it dosent seem like they disclose any annual reports or large funders. Admittedly, I don't know many of the NGOs.

The likes of Chuck Feeney, George Soros, Bill Gates pay a large whack to them. The never ending pot of gold that is the Irish Taxpayer pays most of their budgets. And then there are the saps who subscribe/donate

Feadog999

And here we go, this is why it is important to reach out to TDs about any new social programs such as the justice plan or the white paper. There isn't an endless pot of money that the likes of O'Gorman and McEntee thinks there is

https://m.independent.ie/business/budget/taxes-will-have-to-rise-to-fund-extra-services-warns-central-bank-40225896.html

Geuze

Kivaro wrote: »

People like that are detached from reality. They believe everything that the highly paid asylum lobbyists tell them. They have this depiction in their heads that every single asylum seeker hails from war-torn Syria, and every single one of them deserves their own free home after arriving in Ireland. The reality is that the majority of asylum seekers, and the overwhelming vast majority of those who fly into Ireland from another safe country, are not genuine asylum seekers.

I often wonder why people believe this?

It just shows that lies that appeal to emotion are believable.

Even after it was reported that the Albanians/Georgians were tearing up their travel docs in the aircraft, confirmed by politicians.

Even after the Gardai reported on Operation Vantage, and the scale of sham marriages entered into by bogus Asian AS.

OK, the ESRI reports that I read are not widely circulated, so maybe not many people know that 50% of AS arrive from the UK.


Maybe people confuse the bogus AS with the refugees that we accept, under separate schemes?

DelaneyIn

Feadog999 wrote: »

And here we go, this is why it is important to reach out to TDs about any new social programs such as the justice plan or the white paper. There isn't an endless pot of money that the likes of O'Gorman and McEntee thinks there is

https://m.independent.ie/business/budget/taxes-will-have-to-rise-to-fund-extra-services-warns-central-bank-40225896.html

We are over 200 billion euro in the red.

http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

We simply cannot afford to continue borrowing huge sums of cash, at interest, to give a select group of politicians the warm and fuzzy feeling for “doing good.”

We can’t afford to continue to import those whom require huge state support. The message needs to go out; support yourself or return to sender. Anyone who claimed asylum, somehow got leave to remain and visits the nation they claim to have fled; out they must go. Have a longer history with social welfare than your work history? Out you must go. Can’t afford to support yourself and want social housing and welfare stipends? Out you must go.

No more of this.

We have enough of our own dole bludgers. Unfortunately, we are stuck with them. But the importation of people whom have no ties to this island and who require welfare payments, medical cards, social housing, child benefit etc when they and theirs have never contributed must stop.

African migrants, for example, have a higher unemployment rate than employment rate. This is madness. They’re visa required nationals. To compare this with Irish immigrants in Australia- 2.4% unemployment rate. We are replacing our own hard working people with dolers.

O’Connell and Kenny (2017) show that only about 40% of adult African nationals in Ireland are employed, far less than the average for Irish natives or for other immigrant groups. They also suffer much higher rates of unemployment than the national average. The pattern is similar in other European labour markets. This paper explores the underlying reasons for African disadvantage in the Irish labour market.

https://www.ucd.ie/geary/static/publications/workingpapers/gearywp201816.pdf

The unemployment rate is 5%, compared with Ireland's 14%. Once in Australia, few Irish immigrants have trouble finding a job. Unemployment among the Irish community in Australia is just 2.4%.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/17/ireland-australia-land-of-plenty

The country is in the economic doldrums and will be for quite some time. We simply have to call a halt to this immigration madness from our politicians.

DelaneyIn

Geuze wrote: »

I often wonder why people believe this?

It just shows that lies that appeal to emotion are believable.

Why wouldn’t they believe all immigration is good? Every state institution and the national broadcaster state as such on a daily basis.

If you’ve a child in primary school, they are being told that immigrants come here to do the jobs the Irish are too lazy to do and if they’re not working; fleeing persecution or war. There’s no nuance being shown. All immigration should be allowed and all is beneficial. That’s the official mantra.

RTE and the media are overly pro immigration. The last slightly anti immigrant piece published by the Irish media was in 2017 by David Quinn for the Indo.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-quinn/huge-scale-of-immigration-is-making-our-housing-crisis-worse-35498057.html

I remember it as it was so out of kilter and due to genuine shock they published an opposing viewpoint.

So if your only recourse to the pros and cons of immigration policy is mainstream media, RTE etc. - why wouldn’t honestly believe that it is grand? That’s what you’re constantly being told.

Jane98

My sister emigrated to the U.S. in 1996. 2 years ago she decided to move home with her family. While back here she found the system incredibly hard to deal with it. She was offered no support by our state, just barrier after barrier. Trying to set up a bank account, get an Irish drivers license, rent a house without a job all proved almost impossible. After a lot of frustration, she decided to move back to America.
I often wonder if our country offered as much assistance to Irish people who want to return home here (the vast majority highly educated and coming with wealth built up) as they do to so many economic migrants then what would our country be like?

biko

Afaik Crosscare is the only NGO that can help returning Irish.

Mules

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Why wouldn’t they believe all immigration is good? Every state institution and the national broadcaster state as such on a daily basis.

If you’ve a child in primary school, they are being told that immigrants come here to do the jobs the Irish are too lazy to do and if they’re not working; fleeing persecution or war. There’s no nuance being shown. All immigration should be allowed and all is beneficial. That’s the official mantra.

RTE and the media are overly pro immigration. The last slightly anti immigrant piece published by the Irish media was in 2017 by David Quinn for the Indo.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-quinn/huge-scale-of-immigration-is-making-our-housing-crisis-worse-35498057.html

I remember it as it was so out of kilter and due to genuine shock they published an opposing viewpoint.

So if your only recourse to the pros and cons of immigration policy is mainstream media, RTE etc. - why wouldn’t honestly believe that it is grand? That’s what you’re constantly being told.

That's a good point. It's only when you look in to things for yourself that you see how one sided the establishment media in Ireland is. It's not just with the asylum seekers though, its everything.

Mules

Jane98 wrote: »

My sister emigrated to the U.S. in 1996. 2 years ago she decided to move home with her family. While back here she found the system incredibly hard to deal with it. She was offered no support by our state, just barrier after barrier. Trying to set up a bank account, get an Irish drivers license, rent a house without a job all proved almost impossible. After a lot of frustration, she decided to move back to America.
I often wonder if our country offered as much assistance to Irish people who want to return home here (the vast majority highly educated and coming with wealth built up) as they do to so many economic migrants then what would our country be like?

That's an awful shame. People like your sister should take priority.

Thinkingaboutit

Irish people die homeless on the street so these fraudsters can get their free forever homes.

rgossip30

Feadog999 wrote: »

Are NGOs government funded? Or does funding come from elsewhere? Had a quick Google there and it dosent seem like they disclose any annual reports or large funders. Admittedly, I don't know many of the NGOs.

George Soros is one who funds the Immigrant Council .

Tea drinker

rgossip30 wrote: »

George Soros is one who funds the Immigrant Council .

He'll never make up for the wrongs he did in the Hitler Jungen, calling out his fellow jews.
I think a lot of people these days are looking to make up for other wrongs by virtue signalling in some alternate type religion / cause.

Geuze

Jane98 wrote: »

I often wonder if our country offered as much assistance to Irish people who want to return home here (the vast majority highly educated and coming with wealth built up) as they do to so many economic migrants then what would our country be like?

I have thought that one way to help housing supply would be to attract back some of the builders who emigrated in 2008-2012.

Maybe no income tax in year 1, half income tax in year 2, etc.??

1800_Ladladlad

Response from Colm Brophy

The government is currently considering legislation to make fair changes to the direct provision system in Ireland. This proposal aims to create a system which supports those seeking asylum in a speedy manner.

The Government’s commitment to close all Direct Provision centres by 2024 marks significant progress in creating a more humane and progressive asylum system.

The White Paper sets out how this change will happen over the next few years, as it details the steps the Government will take to end Direct Provision and replace it with a new system.