Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

Geuze

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm saying control immigration but I do believe we need a small amount of people per annum.

As we are in the EU, we can't control EU migration, and that's fair enough.

We can control non-EU immigration.

I see little reason for any non-EU immigration.

Tacitus Kilgore

TomTomTim wrote: »

The problem is we're trapped. There's no options, no dissenters. Most parties in Ireland agree on at least 60% of the issues, especially social issues. Watch in the coming days, week, there will be very little governmental opposition to this, maybe one or two politicians.

i cant see there being much support for keeping DP as it stands. do you?

Mules

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm saying control immigration but I do believe we need a small amount of people per annum. These should be educated and skilled with numbers capped tightly. They would be used in highly skilled positions that we can't currently fill. This isn't the system we have at the moment, no where near it.

This is probably off topic anyway not connected to asylum/refugees.

Highly skilled sounds good. Anyone who will contribute more in tax than they take in public services is fine by me. However, those people aren't asylum seekers and the government's plan will incentivise asylum seeking

Mules

Mules wrote: »

Highly skilled sounds good. Anyone who will contribute more in tax than they take in public services is fine by me. However, these people aren't asylum seekers and the governments plan will incentivise asylum claims.

Yes, I agree

KeithTS

Geuze wrote: »

I am all for ending DP, very slow and expensive.

Replace it with AS claims processed within 24hrs / 7 days max at the port/ airport.

Much faster process for AS, no more delays for them.

Much lower cost for taxpayer.

This sounds great for everyone, I wonder why nobody thought about it?
Have you tried to verify/get documentation for a person who genuinely lost it all when their city was bombed and genuinely had to trek across a continent with their family?

I'm unable to renew my passport in 7 days when I'm in full possession of all of my details, the office renewing it are the very same one that issued it less then 10 years previously and are based 10km away from me and there isn't a war going on in the nation....

biko

If you don't agree, don't vote for a party that supports it.
Speak to your local TD.

If you don't tell politicians how to act they will make your choices for you.

Tacitus Kilgore

KeithTS wrote: »

This sounds great for everyone, I wonder why nobody thought about it?
Have you tried to verify/get documentation for a person who genuinely lost it all when their city was bombed and genuinely had to trek across a continent with their family?

I'm unable to renew my passport in 7 days when I'm in full possession of all of my details, the office renewing it are the very same one that issued it less then 10 years previously and are based 10km away from me and there isn't a war going on in the nation....

It is assumed on here that all assylum applications are bogus

TomTomTim

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

i cant see there being much support for keeping DP as it stands. do you?

After today, DP looks like a far better option, as bad as it was. This new policy simply makes everything worse as it's even more ripe for abuse. Imagine coming to Ireland, knowing you won't qualify for asylum, and knowing that a system exists that will allow to to have free housing for months/years. It would take all the naivety in the world to conclude that there won't be more abuse of the system as a product of that.

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

titan18 wrote: »

I don't live in Dublin. With my savings, I could afford about up to 230k i'd say atm. House wise, there's not a giant amount under that in Cork City (on daft anyway) unless you want to live in a sh1t area, so you're mainly looking at apartments and there's a fair lack of suitable ones in Cork City.

When i know of people on the housing list getting houses in new estates worth over 300k (and likely will be the same with this DP plan) it's a bit sh1t that someone working and who's taxes are paying for those gets a worse house or an apartment in a worse area.

Your second paragraph is just mental to try and comprehend. This country is a basket case.

Atlantic Dawn

The criteria to claim asylum has been relaxed too, if you show up in a Wham t-shirt they will now be forced to take you in.

KeithTS

KeithTS wrote: »

This sounds great for everyone, I wonder why nobody thought about it?
Have you tried to verify/get documentation for a person who genuinely lost it all when their city was bombed and genuinely had to trek across a continent with their family?

I'm unable to renew my passport in 7 days when I'm in full possession of all of my details, the office renewing it are the very same one that issued it less then 10 years previously and are based 10km away from me and there isn't a war going on in the nation....

You're seriously deluded if you think the people arriving into the airport are coming from areas that were bombed.

For starters they've, in 99% of cases, boarded a commercial flight from Europe so they had;

1. Money to book
2. The passport to board

They get rid of their passport before they present in Dublin as it's one of the things you need to do to apply.

99% of our asylum seekers are bogus as they have passed through one or many more safe countries to arrive on our shores.
This alone is supposed to be grounds for rejection yet we're just letting them all stay multiple years despite that.

Your Face

For the powers that be, its easier to do this than to work to create a society that actually values working people.

Tacitus Kilgore

TomTomTim wrote: »

After today, DP looks like a far better option, as bad as it was. This new policy simply makes everything worse as it's even more ripe for abuse. Imagine coming to Ireland, knowing you won't qualify for asylum, and knowing that a system exists that will allow to to have free housing for months/years. It would take all the naivety in the world to conclude that there won't be more abuse of the system as a product of that.

....

I am not going go to do deep in to it, but you are arguing that the govt. should continue to pay hoteliers & owners of mobile homes and car parks massive sums of money to house asylum seekers for year and years, instead of housing them in state owned property - at presumably a reduced cost, and increased standard of accomodation.

the speed of the applications & appeals process is a different kettle of fish really

agoodpunt

once they enter the country they wont leave unless they use it as a gateway to the UK or Europe but giving them a house and equal rights to social welfare they will skip with benefits even back to there home why are we making it easier an attractive because of a strong and organised lobby group created on the back of tax payer we have a virtual open border policy

RandRuns

KeithTS wrote: »

This sounds great for everyone, I wonder why nobody thought about it?
Have you tried to verify/get documentation for a person who genuinely lost it all when their city was bombed and genuinely had to trek across a continent with their family?

I'm unable to renew my passport in 7 days when I'm in full possession of all of my details, the office renewing it are the very same one that issued it less then 10 years previously and are based 10km away from me and there isn't a war going on in the nation....

How do asylum seekers landing in Dublin airport get on a plane without any documentation?

Akesh

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Social or affordable? Or free? Or on market?

Which is it you want, because most on this thread don't want the govt to provide ANY housing

Pathetic attempt at a strawman argument. Why are we bringing people in when there is a massive lack of supply on the market? Why don't you answer that.

Tacitus Kilgore

Akesh wrote: »

Pathetic attempt at a strawman argument. Why are we bringing people in when there is a massive lack of supply on the market? Why don't you answer that.

No better than a straw man to fight a strawman.

They're coming in anyway, this is about change to how they're housed...

RandRuns

RandRuns wrote: »

How do asylum seekers landing in Dublin airport get on a plane without any documentation?

The documentation is often destroyed once on the plane and before you disembark on the Irish side

Mules

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

i cant see there being much support for keeping DP as it stands. do you?

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

....

I am not going go to do deep in to it, but you are arguing that the govt. should continue to pay hoteliers & owners of mobile homes and car parks massive sums of money to house asylum seekers for year and years, instead of housing them in state owned property - at presumably a reduced cost, and increased standard of accomodation.

the speed of the applications & appeals process is a different kettle of fish really

The department of housing has said housing them will be 2x as expensive as direct provision. That's accomodation alone, it doesn't even include social welfare and other benefits.

RandRuns

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

No better than a straw man to fight a strawman.

They're coming in anyway, this is about change to how they're housed...

Can you respond to my earlier post where I showed you why we can't build all these houses and still build social housing?
You were very adamant that we could until you were given the facts, it seems rude to run away.

MFPM

Akesh wrote: »

Pathetic attempt at a strawman argument. Why are we bringing people in when there is a massive lack of supply on the market? Why don't you answer that.

So if the housing issue is solved you're not opposed in principle to people arriving in Ireland?

Of course the pressure on housing has nothing to do with asylum seekers but one suspects you know that!!

RandRuns

Deleted User wrote: »

The documentation is often destroyed once on the plane and before you disembark on the Irish side

I know, but some posters want to pretend these bogus asylum seekers are coming straight off a battle field, when the reality is very different.

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The National Party will always be no more than a rinky-dink gathering of screwballs.


Boards could establish a party in the morn and it'd be immediately more meaningful than that lot.

I'm no fan of the national party but this is the exact type of sneering attitude that got the likes of Trump into power and sees the rise of far right parties across Europe. You and your kind would do well to remember that.

MFPM

TomTomTim wrote: »

After today, DP looks like a far better option, as bad as it was. This new policy simply makes everything worse as it's even more ripe for abuse. Imagine coming to Ireland, knowing you won't qualify for asylum, and knowing that a system exists that will allow to to have free housing for months/years. It would take all the naivety in the world to conclude that there won't be more abuse of the system as a product of that.

A 'far better option' FFS have you seen these sh!t holes? The institutionalisation of PEOPLE has to stop.

RandRuns

RandRuns wrote: »

I know, but some posters want to pretend these bogus asylum seekers are coming straight off a battle field, when the reality is very different.

Hehe, thought u weren't sure

MFPM

agoodpunt wrote: »

once they enter the country they wont leave unless they use it as a gateway to the UK or Europe but giving them a house and equal rights to social welfare they will skip with benefits even back to there home why are we making it easier an attractive because of a strong and organised lobby group created on the back of tax payer we have a virtual open border policy

They, They, They....

mgn

Why don't the build a place beside the airport with accommodation, straight off the plane, interviewed and do the all the checks while the are in the building, 7 day turnaround max, either grant asylum or back on the plane, simple.

But that wont happen because of all the vested interests.

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

Are "Democratic" countries really democratic anymore when their governments are radically opposed to the views of the majority of their people? Across the water Brexit was voted in by the public mainly because of failed immigration policies yet today Ireland has opened their borders to the third world and more. A free house after 4 months for these people while the country is currently gripped by a housing crisis for the last number of years. When the EU fails it will fail because of policies like this that they forced onto member states. No wonder right wing parties are on the rise across the continent.

TomTomTim

MFPM wrote: »

A 'far better option' FFS have you seen these sh!t holes? The institutionalisation of PEOPLE has to stop.

I'm sure you're going to give us a comprehensive analysis of what makes DP centers sh!t holes. I personally have seen no evidence of this, and have seen numerous claims about conditions with little supporting evidence. Even recently there was the case of Ashbourne House, where they were supposedly on hunger strike over terrible food quality. Yet the food was bog standard deli quality food, that you get in every shop throughout the country. There was a similar protest in Kerry, once again with little evidence of their claims.

Mules

A big help would be not to allow appeals. They really slow up the system. The people who make the decision on whether to grant asylum should be trusted to be competent enough to make a correct decision. I haven't heard of an appeals process in other countries.

Sandra Spoiled Karaoke

Sandra Spoiled Karaoke wrote: »

Are "Democratic" countries really democratic anymore when their governments are radically opposed to the views of the majority of their people? Across the water Brexit was voted in by the public mainly because of failed immigration policies yet today Ireland has opened their borders to the third world and more. A free house after 4 months for these people while the country is currently gripped by a housing crisis for the last number of years. When the EU fails it will fail because of policies like this that they forced onto member states. No wonder right wing parties are on the rise across the continent.

Germany is. 5 years ago the CDU/CSU were scratching their heads wondering why the public were getting worked up about the open borders brain-fart but they're a bit more sensible now that they have seen the AFD rising above 20% in Eastern Germany and the birth right of the CDU/CSU to be in Government without pause no longer the certainty it once was. They're still not completely reconciled with the fact that the electorate don't like open borders but they know it has consequences for their political careers.

Mules

Deleted User wrote: »

Germany is. 5 years ago the CDU/CSU were scratching their heads wondering why the public were getting worked up about the open borders brain-fart but they're a bit more sensible now that they have seen the AFD rising above 20% in Eastern Germany and the birth right of the CDU/CSU to be in Government without pause no longer the certainty it once was. They're still not completely reconciled with the fact that the electorate don't like open borders but they know it has consequences for their political careers.

Its bizarre that politicians can't understand why people are upset by open borders. They mustn't use any public services because that's the only way they wouldn't be affected by it.

RandRuns

Mules wrote: »

Its bizarre that politicians can't understand why people are upset by open borders. They mustn't use any public services because that's the only way they wouldn't be affected by it.

There's a lot of money in pretending not to understand it. If politicians were getting backhanders to stop open borders, it would be stopped in the morning.

Mules

RandRuns wrote: »

There's a lot of money in pretending not to understand it. If politicians were getting backhanders to stop open borders, it would be stopped in the morning.

I think you must be right. I can't think of any other explanation.

Ok, I'm out of here for a while, the sun is shining outside My last thoughts, this is happening and will be implemented, the numbers will increase massively, the politicians don't care, they are receiving very little blow back on the door steps, therefore they can ignore it.

If you're concerned about it write to your local representatives and next time they canvas tell them you are opposed to what they are doing. I've said it before they will ignore you but at least you'll have let them know your stance on it. I've told a few recently over the last few years not to call to my home again because of this issue. Again they don't care, infact you can see they don't want to be even questioned on it but anyway don't vote for them, don't interact with them on any issues., hopefully one day some proper representatives will step forward with reasonable policies

Kingkong

I hate the way the socialist agenda is gaining so much traction as the main parties try to appeal to the Sein Fein voter base.
We are yet again paying for other countries' problems, we are so so soft here, France and Italy take a much harder stance for good reasons, they know aslyums seeking will always go the easiest route.

The main parties are alienating their own voters, do they even remember what they stand for?
I want to work, pay less tax and leave something for my children.
I don't want the country buried with debt and my kids in a worse mess that my parent's generation left us in.

We are broke as a country and borrowing like mad its all going to come crashing down.

Sarcozies

I can't believe the disgusting responses from a lot of posters here just naming the problems associated with this plan such as growing division, legal costs, resentment from a generation who grew up during the biggest economic collapse in nearly a century who now are going through another, combined with a pandemic where the best chance of having their own little space would be to get sent to prison.

What about the food? Have ye all forgot about the great assortment of exotic lunches we will be able to enjoy in the years to come? Always look on.....

mgn

RandRuns wrote: »

There's a lot of money in pretending not to understand it. If politicians were getting backhanders to stop open borders, it would be stopped in the morning.

Or a nice handy number in Europe to top up their already inflated pensions.

Tacitus Kilgore

Kingkong wrote: »

I hate the way the liberal agenda is gaining so much traction as the main parties try to appeal to the Sein Feinn voter base.
We are yet again paying for other countries' problems, we are so so soft here, France and Italy take a much harder stance for good reasons, they know aslyums seeking will always go the easiest route.

They are alienating their own voters. I want to work, pay less tax and leave something for my children. I don't want the country buried with debt and my kids in a worse mess than my parent's generation left us. We are broke as a country and borrowing like mad its all going to come crashing down

that's not liberalism, liberalism wants low govt intervention, low taxes & free market capitalism. Thats not what SF are about (I don't know what they're about tbh but they argue for a 32 county SOCIALIST republic)

You don't even know what you're giving out about - probably just read it on infowars or some other american soapbox.

mikeym

Build big tower blocks and put them in them.

Problem solved.

Will the Asylum process be overhauled aswell?

KeithTS

gilberto_eire wrote: »

You're seriously deluded if you think the people arriving into the airport are coming from areas that were bombed.

For starters they've, in 99% of cases, boarded a commercial flight from Europe so they had;

1. Money to book
2. The passport to board

They get rid of their passport before they present in Dublin as it's one of the things you need to do to apply.

99% of our asylum seekers are bogus as they have passed through one or many more safe countries to arrive on our shores.
This alone is supposed to be grounds for rejection yet we're just letting them all stay multiple years despite that.

1 - In no way am I deluded. Perhaps you would do your case more justice if you could have a conversation about it without resulting to name calling or insulting somebody in the first three words of your response.

2 - I have gotten to ferry from Dublin to Holyhead about 8 times a year for many years, ID was requested once. So it's very easy to imagine people can get into the county without checks easily enough.

3 - Technically yes, asylum seekers are supposed to claim in the first safe nation they land in. However, the Dublin convention is not workable in practice and in effect burdens a small few countries with most of the legitimate cases so it's no wonder it's not encouraged. Is it OK to you that some countries fare better because of geography?
It's not for me, I would much rather disperse the asylum seekers in such a way that they as people would prefer and so that no one nation has to deal with the problem alone. Using that technicality as grounds to say 99% of asylum seekers are bogus has very little footing in reality..

4 - I agree, there are people who take advantage of the system and dispose of documentation on arrival. However, proper checks still must be carried out on all arrivals claiming asylum. Not only is it a legal requirement, we also cant just assume (as you do) that all asylum seekers are "bogus" because some happen to be so. Just like we can't say all 50 year old white men are bank robbers because a 50 year old white man robbed a bank once.

This is an extremely complicated scenario with a huge amount of different aspects to consider, reducing it to "99% of asylum seekers are bogus" isn't how decision making and policies work. Sometimes we have to accept the lesser of two evils, personally, I would gladly embrace all of the "bogus" applications and welcome them into our country if it meant that the other "legitimate" cases were accepted.

MrMusician18

KeithTS wrote: »

This sounds great for everyone, I wonder why nobody thought about it?
Have you tried to verify/get documentation for a person who genuinely lost it all when their city was bombed and genuinely had to trek across a continent with their family?

I'm unable to renew my passport in 7 days when I'm in full possession of all of my details, the office renewing it are the very same one that issued it less then 10 years previously and are based 10km away from me and there isn't a war going on in the nation....

If you came do it in 7 days, you're equally unlikely to be able to do it in 4 months. If that's the case then the white paper effectively guarantees housing for asylum seekers within 4 months of arriving.

Fairly sure the state housing list has longer wait times than 4 months.

Mules

Sarcozies wrote: »

I can't believe the disgusting responses from a lot of posters here just naming the problems associated with this plan such as growing division, legal costs, resentment from a generation who grew up during the biggest economic collapse in nearly a century who now are going through another, combined with a pandemic where the best chance of having their own little space would be to get sent to prison.

What about th:De food? Have ye all forgot about the great assortment of exotic lunches we will be able to enjoy in the years to come? Always look on.....

:D

Akesh

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

No better than a straw man to fight a strawman.

They're coming in anyway, this is about change to how they're housed...

You obviously don't know what a strawman argument is.
.

MFPM wrote: »

So if the housing issue is solved you're not opposed in principle to people arriving in Ireland?

Of course the pressure on housing has nothing to do with asylum seekers but one suspects you know that!!

Complete nonsense. Asylum seekers will require social housing. If people living in Ireland can't afford a house on the market, how do you expect an asylum seeker to buy privately?

How can you say they have no impact on housing?!

Rodin

What a waste of time and resources.
The money would be better spent processing applications much quicker and sending failed applicants home tout de suite.

mikeym

Will every asylum seeker get a 3 bed semi detached house?

And a passport?

And free healthcare?

And free education?

And free money?

And free legal aid?

They will have more than what I have.

Tacitus Kilgore

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Social or affordable? Or free? Or on market?

Akesh wrote: »

You obviously don't know what a strawman argument is.
.

Fine, answer what I asked you then - which type of housing do you want provided by the government before they turn their hand to assylum seekers?

Tacitus Kilgore

mikeym wrote: »

Will every asylum seeker get a 3 bed semi detached house?

And a passport?

And free healthcare?

And free education?

And free money?

And free legal aid?

They have more than what I have.

They get to keep the first born son of every Irish person too, and unlimited bus stop buggies.

mikeym

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

They get to keep the first born son of every Irish person too, and unlimited bus stop buggies.

I might go to America and claim asylum over there.

Id say ill get all the perks and freebies.

mikeym

What countries are these asylum seekers from?

And what type of free housing do they require?

I apologise for the bad treatment they are getting over here but I didnt invite them here.