Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

Feadog999

Response from Eoin Ó Broin of Sinn Fein


"A chara,



Thanks for your mail.



It appears that you have misread the Governments final proposal for reforming the temporary accommodation system for asylum applicants as well as the Department of Housings 2 memos on the subject. What is currently being proposed by the Minister is both better from a human rights and dignity point of view as well as being better value for money for the taxpayer in comparison to Direct Provision. The Department of Housing critique was of the Day Commissions proposals which are not contained in the final white paper. In face much of the Department of Housings recommendations have been accepted.



With regard to undocumented migrants I have no objection to peoples status being regularised. We campaign for the undocumented Irish in the US to have their status regularised. Clearly there would need to be a discussion as to the whay this would be done. However it would result in more tax revenue and less exploitation of migrant and resident labour.



We are a nation of economic migrants. My grandparents, my parents and I myself was an economic migrant, contributing to the country I migranted to before returning home.



It would be hypocritical of us to say that its OK for the Irish to travel to other countries to better ourselves while denying others the opportunity to do the same.



What we need is a fair, transparent and human rights compliant system for for third country migration and for asylum applicants fleeing war and persecution.



We are a wealth country with the resources to meet the needs of all our citizens and residents. Our problem is not inward migration or asylum applicants but corrupt and inept politicians looking after the interests of the few and not the many.



Lets focus our energy and anger on them and campaign for a better and fairer Ireland for all.



Is mise"

DelaneyIn

We don’t deny others the opportunity to work and live here. There’s a legal process. These liars and fraudsters choose not to come through the appropriate visa process. They must not be rewarded for their deceit.

ThunbergsAreGo

DelaneyIn wrote: »

We don’t deny others the opportunity to work and live here. There’s a legal process. These liars and fraudsters choose not to come through the appropriate visa process. They must not be rewarded for their deceit.

Feel pretty much the same about illegal Irish working abroad....

DelaneyIn

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Feel pretty much the same about illegal Irish working abroad....

As someone who worked abroad with the correct visa, fcuk the Irish illegals and I hope they get deported.

clytemnestra

That reply is awful. So basically he doesn't believe in any immigration restrictions at all, just let everyone in?

the immortals

Do Irish illegals get

Free accommodation
Free food
Free health care
Free legal aid
Free money every week

Also do they have an array of NGOs and left wing political parties working on their behalf?

The direct Provision system in Ireland is a massive fraud perpetuated on the people of Ireland, all the NGOs, politicians, immigrant groups know it and they couldn't give a ****.

Most asylum applications are rejected, over 70% last time I checked, that means that all the money spent is spent on economic migrants lying about being asylum seekers.

Its fraud on an industrial scale

biko

So Sinn Fein or now ok with economic migrants. The next step will be climate migrants (like the Irish emigrated when the harvests failed).

We're a long way away from refugees from war-torn countries now, that's so pre-2015.

Feadog999

Feadog999 wrote: »

Response from Eoin Ó Broin of Sinn Fein
Our problem is not inward migration or asylum applicants but corrupt and inept politicians looking after the interests of the few and not the many.

Guess what Eoin, you're one of them!

How can people who claim to be on the left not see what them opening up the labour market beyond the 440m EU citizens who can already access it will do.

I don't understand why political parties in Ireland are so afraid to talk about migration or citizenship and make it an election issue.

If you're afraid about the rise of SF, make them put their cards on the table in a public fashion for everyone to see, SF voters are more likely to be anti immigration and I doubt many of them know their party position on the matter

"Fine Gael supporters were strongest in support of offering to settle migrants with 61 per cent of them in favour while Sinn Féin voters were most strongly opposed with more than 70 per cent against the move."
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/poll-majority-against-taking-in-fleeing-migrants-1.2217564?fbclid=IwAR1gRq7_1KkHNfg7_rWyDs7XoUQBlqVWmUu2V8-0-IXBSWN4Cl1EH_75xeE

DelaneyIn

DelaneyIn wrote: »

As someone who worked abroad with the correct visa, fcuk the Irish illegals and I hope they get deported.

Ditto. I've lived/worked abroad for a total of fifteen years now, and always with the appropriate visas. Sure, it's a hassle to renew each year, but if you're going to work/study/live in a country, you should respect their laws. You don't have to agree with those laws, but you chose to be there, so respect them.

Honestly, I'd love to see the grand entire group of illegals/undocumented migrants in Ireland deported. They're taking jobs and benefits away from people who would be willing to come/stay here legally, but can't.

The same for any illegals anywhere. It's not really that difficult to get a visa, and if you can't get one for your desired country, then perhaps you should be considering somewhere else instead.

"You" not being you, DelaneyIn

Wibbs

I note Eoin Ó Broin pulls the same lazy and inaccurate stuff of "well the Irish were immigrants too" without delving into the huge differences involved in that. Well it doesn't suit his simplistic narrative.

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't understand why political parties in Ireland are so afraid to talk about migration or citizenship and make it an election issue.

Because they know the likely result if put to the Irish electorate, or they're not so sure it will go the way they think. If they were sure they'd be happy to discuss it. The fact it's not discussed, or rather only one Correct Way is discussed and all dissent, even simple questions are ignored, or never heard tells me they're extremely unsure their position is mirrored by the people they claim to represent. The largest majority of any referendum vote was against birthright passports. 80%. Even in the leafy suburbia of right on Green voting lotus muesli eaters who recycle as much of their dopamine guilt hit as they can it was over 70%. The Irish electorate were very clear, even when a few parties and all the NGO's at the time were calling "racism".

Which does beg the question why this position is so dug in? I certainly don't buy the charity angle, maybe with the very naive among their number, but not for most. One does wonder why this notion has taken such hold and why they're hellbent on pushing it through? Even more so when the trend across the EU has been populations saying we want to keep the same levels or no, we don't want any more immigration at all. And many EU governments are listening. Yet the Irish political class going against their longstanding servile to outside politic nature are growing a pair on this?

statesaver

biko wrote: »

So Sinn Fein or now ok with economic migrants. The next step will be climate migrants (like the Irish emigrated when the harvests failed).

We're a long way away from refugees from war-torn countries now, that's so pre-2015.

Brits out, everyone else in.


Cannot understand how anyone votes Sinn Fein.

Jinglejangle69

Feadog999 wrote: »

Response from Eoin Ó Broin of Sinn Fein


"A chara,



Thanks for your mail.



It appears that you have misread the Governments final proposal for reforming the temporary accommodation system for asylum applicants as well as the Department of Housings 2 memos on the subject. What is currently being proposed by the Minister is both better from a human rights and dignity point of view as well as being better value for money for the taxpayer in comparison to Direct Provision. The Department of Housing critique was of the Day Commissions proposals which are not contained in the final white paper. In face much of the Department of Housings recommendations have been accepted.



With regard to undocumented migrants I have no objection to peoples status being regularised. We campaign for the undocumented Irish in the US to have their status regularised. Clearly there would need to be a discussion as to the whay this would be done. However it would result in more tax revenue and less exploitation of migrant and resident labour.



We are a nation of economic migrants. My grandparents, my parents and I myself was an economic migrant, contributing to the country I migranted to before returning home.



It would be hypocritical of us to say that its OK for the Irish to travel to other countries to better ourselves while denying others the opportunity to do the same.



What we need is a fair, transparent and human rights compliant system for for third country migration and for asylum applicants fleeing war and persecution.



We are a wealth country with the resources to meet the needs of all our citizens and residents. Our problem is not inward migration or asylum applicants but corrupt and inept politicians looking after the interests of the few and not the many.



Lets focus our energy and anger on them and campaign for a better and fairer Ireland for all.



Is mise"

Not like SF to deflect.

Jesus we are screwed.

Next in power SF with a load of left parties.

Depressing.

SFC1895

Feadog999 wrote: »

Are NGOs government funded? Or does funding come from elsewhere? Had a quick Google there and it dosent seem like they disclose any annual reports or large funders. Admittedly, I don't know many of the NGOs.

The State funds the NGO sector by an eye-watering €6bn per annum. Quite incredible.



Defund the NGO sector.

Kivaro

It is no surprise that not one of the responses on here from our elected representatives have addressed the official government report that states that Irish people will become homeless as a result of this new DP replacement system. The report also hints at discriminatory practices in favour of asylum seekers that would occur if this new system is put in place.

The post a couple of pages back about an Irish family moving back to Ireland is something I've heard on numerous occasions. There is little to no support for returning Irish emigrants, but if you are from Africa or Pakistan claiming asylum then you will be guaranteed your own home within 4 months, even if it displaces Irish people. Irish emigrants returning from abroad, with proven work and criminal background checks, are the wrong type of people for our country in the eyes of the progressives in government.

The only way that any sanity can return to this shambles is if an external financial shock occurs that our heavily indebted country cannot handle. A worldwide pandemic was not big enough, so we need something bigger that will require visits from external entities to get our wasteful spending in order.

jmreire

the immortals wrote: »

Do Irish illegals get

Free accommodation
Free food
Free health care
Free legal aid
Free money every week

Also do they have an array of NGOs and left wing political parties working on their behalf?

The direct Provision system in Ireland is a massive fraud perpetuated on the people of Ireland, all the NGOs, politicians, immigrant groups know it and they couldn't give a ****.

Most asylum applications are rejected, over 70% last time I checked, that means that all the money spent is spent on economic migrants lying about being asylum seekers.

Its fraud on an industrial scale

But,,but but but,,,,,according to Eoin O' Broin, Quote " We are a wealthy country with the resources to meet the needs of all our citizens and residents. Our problem is not inward migration or asylum applicants but corrupt and inept politicians looking after the interests of the few and not the many."Unquote.

Really? 200+ Billion in the red? Central bank planning on recovering the cash spent on Covid payments, which will be borne mainly by tax payers, but they have not ruled out VAT and Carbon tax increases as well.

SFC1895

Ah yes, Eoin Ó Broin, the chief priest of demagoguery. Preaching doctrines he knows to be untrue to people he knows to be idiots.

ExMachina1000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Guess what Eoin, you're one of them!

How can people who claim to be on the left not see what them opening up the labour market beyond the 440m EU citizens who can already access it will do.

If you look at which EU groupings that Irish parties are members of you get a much clearer view of what they are about. Cuts through the media noise here.

Fine Gael = EPP liberal conservatism. Centre right

Fianna Fail = Renew Liberalism Pro Europeanism. Centre

Sinn fein = GUE Left Wing populism, Democratic Socialism, Communism . Left wing to far left.

jay0109

Feadog999 wrote: »

Response from Eoin Ó Broin of Sinn Fein

"What we need is a fair, transparent and human rights compliant system for for third country migration and for asylum applicants fleeing war and persecution."

So there you have it. Not only does he have no issues with illegals who have made it here, he wants to make it easier for asylum shoppers to actually get here in the first place aka 'third country migration'.
That's the first time I've heard that alluded to.

Over 20% of the population in the South are foreign born. Up North, we know that half of them want to be British. And all our political parties want to continue to make it easier for immigrants to move here.
We'll soon be a minority on our own island....we're a lost cause

Salvation Tambourine

Feadog999 wrote: »

Response from Eoin Ó Broin of Sinn Fein

Did you respond back to this?

Feadog999

Nokotan wrote: »

Did you respond back to this?

I did. But not expecting much.


Dear Eoin,

Many thanks for your swift reply. While I strongly disagree with the points you made, I very much appreciate the engagement and exchanging of ideas in a friendly manner.

It appears you have strong faith in this government to deliver (successfully) such a programme. Something I do not.

I think if the Irish enter a country illegally the Irish Government should not lobby for their status to be regularised. Indeed it would be hypocritical, therefore I don't (and many Irish dont) beleive that illegal Irish abroad should be allowed to remain in the new host country. Breaking the law certainly should not be encouraged, especially with generous social programmes.

There is a large difference between skilled migration and low skilled / asylum migration. The Irish when traveling abroad are doing so in search of work. They do not (and have not) relied on the generous social programs of their new host country to get by. Indeed, this is a point also parroted by your colleagues in Fine Gael, maybe political parties in Ireland are not as different as we think. There is an existing legal process for skilled people to come here already.

The Irish, when abroad, won't get free own door accomodation within four months of arriving, they don't get free physical and mental health care, they don't get free education, they don't get free legal aid. In fact, I live in Ireland and pay taxes here and I don't get any of the above but yet I will end up paying for it.

There no possible way that tax income received from these people will cancel out the expenditure implications. There are a plethora of reports showing that low earners in Ireland, in comparison to other European countries, pay very little in income tax and these migrants will not have the updward social mobility in one generation to climb out of this bracket. Therefore, of course it will end up costing a significant amount of money to the tax payer. We already operate in an environment where the Irish tax payer sees absolutely minimal return for their taxes.

In fact, I believe that the introduction of a massive influx of low skilled workers (who decide to work) will create a surplus of labour forcing the wages of hard working families down rather than up.

Ireland being a rich country with plenty of resources is also something I disagree with. We were approximately €200 billion in the red pre-covid. Likely to climb to €240 billion. A central bank news article yesterday outlined we can't borrow forever and that the programmes announced in budget 21 last year will likely have to be funded through increased in taxes. Let's not forget that Ireland also has the second highest cost of living in the EU - behind Denmark. Insurance, house prices, child care, taxes, general cost of living are significant costs to hard working families as is, without funding such migration programmes.

Under the current circumstances there is no way that the housing of these people can be provided for without impacting people already living and working here. We are kidding ourselves if we think otherwise. People are already competing with local authorities and AHBs to buy houses - while I understand you have a different housing policy, we unfortunately are currently operating in a FF/FG/GP system that puts public housing providers in competition with people buying houses.

Migration has created some pretty serious issues in other European countries and we would do well not to ignore it. Indeed, Denmark has begun to strip Syrian residents of residency permits and have begun sending some home citing it is now safe to return. Like always, Ireland is late to the party and will be late to the party introducing counteracting policy measures when we eventually have to.

Again, going back to the article 27 referendum. I really think the regularisation process totally goes against the vote. And agreeing with it or not, it was a democratic process. However, I realise it also gave future governments power to change it.

If you look at the Irish Times/Ipsos MRBI poll From 2015, 70% of Sinn Fein voters were against taking any migrants with the majority of citizens also against the idea and I think if such a poll was carried out today the general citizen result would be largely the same.

As part of the plans, there appears to be no upward ceiling applied to how many people can come / be catered for which of course will only serve to attract more migration. Indeed, there also dosent seem to be any reference to improving the process to let genuine asylum seekers in while denying others or economic migrants.

There really seems to be a total lack of evidenced based policy making and analysis present in both the plans and that is my largest worry. That we will rush into such programmes while blindfolded in order to appear as progressive as possible while throwing caution to the wind. I think it will only serve to foster division and social unrest in the future. But who knows, maybe I am wrong. But that is the way it is panning out in other European countries currently.

Again, thank you for the engagement and at least I know where Sinn Fein stands.

jmreire

Feadog999 wrote: »

I did. But not expecting much.


Dear Eoin,

Many thanks for your swift reply. While I strongly disagree with the points you made, I very much appreciate the engagement and exchanging of ideas in a friendly manner.

It appears you have strong faith in this government to deliver (successfully) such a programme. Something I do not.

I think if the Irish enter a country illegally the Irish Government should not lobby for their status to be regularised. Indeed it would be hypocritical, therefore I don't (and many Irish dont) beleive that illegal Irish abroad should be allowed to remain in the new host country. Breaking the law certainly should not be encouraged, especially with generous social programmes.

There is a large difference between skilled migration and low skilled / asylum migration. The Irish when traveling abroad are doing so in search of work. They do not (and have not) relied on the generous social programs of their new host country to get by. Indeed, this is a point also parroted by your colleagues in Fine Gael, maybe political parties in Ireland are not as different as we think. There is an existing legal process for skilled people to come here already.

The Irish, when abroad, won't get free own door accomodation within four months of arriving, they don't get free physical and mental health care, they don't get free education, they don't get free legal aid. In fact, I live in Ireland and pay taxes here and I don't get any of the above but yet I will end up paying for it.

There no possible way that tax income received from these people will cancel out the expenditure implications. There are a plethora of reports showing that low earners in Ireland, in comparison to other European countries, pay very little in income tax and these migrants will not have the updward social mobility in one generation to climb out of this bracket. Therefore, of course it will end up costing a significant amount of money to the tax payer. We already operate in an environment where the Irish tax payer sees absolutely minimal return for their taxes.

In fact, I believe that the introduction of a massive influx of low skilled workers (who decide to work) will create a surplus of labour forcing the wages of hard working families down rather than up.

Ireland being a rich country with plenty of resources is also something I disagree with. We were approximately €200 billion in the red pre-covid. Likely to climb to €240 billion. A central bank news article yesterday outlined we can't borrow forever and that the programmes announced in budget 21 last year will likely have to be funded through increased in taxes. Let's not forget that Ireland also has the second highest cost of living in the EU - behind Denmark. Insurance, house prices, child care, taxes, general cost of living are significant costs to hard working families as is, without funding such migration programmes.

Under the current circumstances there is no way that the housing of these people can be provided for without impacting people already living and working here. We are kidding ourselves if we think otherwise. People are already competing with local authorities and AHBs to buy houses - while I understand you have a different housing policy, we unfortunately are currently operating in a FF/FG/GP system that puts public housing providers in competition with people buying houses.

Migration has created some pretty serious issues in other European countries and we would do well not to ignore it. Indeed, Denmark has begun to strip Syrian residents of residency permits and have begun sending some home citing it is now safe to return. Like always, Ireland is late to the party and will be late to the party introducing counteracting policy measures when we eventually have to.

Again, going back to the article 27 referendum. I really think the regularisation process totally goes against the vote. And agreeing with it or not, it was a democratic process. However, I realise it also gave future governments power to change it.

If you look at the Irish Times/Ipsos MRBI poll From 2015, 70% of Sinn Fein voters were against taking any migrants with the majority of citizens also against the idea and I think if such a poll was carried out today the general citizen result would be largely the same.

As part of the plans, there appears to be no upward ceiling applied to how many people can come / be catered for which of course will only serve to attract more migration. Indeed, there also dosent seem to be any reference to improving the process to let genuine asylum seekers in while denying others or economic migrants.

There really seems to be a total lack of evidenced based policy making and analysis present in both the plans and that is my largest worry. That we will rush into such programmes while blindfolded in order to appear as progressive as possible while throwing caution to the wind. I think it will only serve to foster division and social unrest in the future. But who knows, maybe I am wrong. But that is the way it is panning out in other European countries currently.

Again, thank you for the engagement and at least I know where Sinn Fein stands.

This: 100%.

Hamachi

jmreire wrote: »

This: 100%.

Agreed. Superb response.

It might seem futile at the moment, but the prevailing narrative can change very quickly. Keep making the points calmly and articulately to these people. The hope is that the political class finally gets the message before they can inflict too much damage on our society.

irishproduce

Part of the solution here is educating the lower income part of society who vote for these lefties by highlighting that the policies they are pushing through are in direct opposition to their (the low paid electorate) interests. That by giving them your vote, you are permitting them to introduce policies that are going to make yours or your loved ones lives harder, not better.

Jinglejangle69

Great reply.

Regrettably I fear it will go over his head.

All SF care about is a UI and will try garner votes whatever way possible.

Jinglejangle69

irishproduce wrote: »

Part of the solution here is educating the lower income part of society who vote for these lefties by highlighting that the policies they are pushing through are in direct opposition to their (the low paid electorate) interests. That by giving them your vote, you are permitting them to introduce policies that are going to make yours or your loved ones lives harder, not better.

Won't happen.

Our media are too afraid to speak out.

Once someone tries have a discussion against these issues they are branded racist and everyone ****s the bed.

Kivaro

Feadog999 wrote: »

I did. But not expecting much.


Dear Eoin,

Many thanks for your swift reply. While I strongly disagree with the points you made, I very much appreciate the engagement and exchanging of ideas in a friendly manner.
.......

Great response. This is a prime example of someone making a genuine effort to try and stop a discriminatory policy that the majority in Ireland would not agree to if given the opportunity to vote on it.

Might I suggest re-titling your response and sending it to the Irish Times and other Irish newspapers, plus as many Irish politicians (local and national) as possible. Remaining silent on the topic only emboldens the likes of Roderic O' Gorman to bring forward even more financially crippling asylum policies.

Feadog999

Kivaro wrote: »

Great response. This is a prime example of someone making a genuine effort to try and stop a discriminatory policy that the majority in Ireland would not agree to if given the opportunity to vote on it.

Might I suggest re-titling your response and sending it to the Irish Times and other Irish newspapers, plus as many Irish politicians (local and national) as possible. Remaining silent on the topic only emboldens the likes of Roderic O' Gorman to bring forward even more financially crippling asylum policies.

Not a bad idea. What way do you think the newspapers should be contacted? In a letters to the editor style approach or something else?

Jinglejangle69

Feadog999 wrote: »

Not a bad idea. What way do you think the newspapers should be contacted? In a letters to the editor style approach or something else?

Send it to Niall Boylan too.

He's the only radio presenter not afraid to discuss the topic for fear of being called racist.

Gunmonkey

Nokotan wrote: »

Did you respond back to this?

Want to make him change his tune? Ask should asylum seekers be given a right to vote too as they are trying to make a new life here/helps engage minorities in electoral process/ more diversity in future elections etc etc.

And if he says he would be on board with that:

tell him you will then get help from the DUP and Farage and other pro-Irexiters to ship 2-3 million British folks over here claiming asylum as they are fleeing drug debts or such and need to be housed and funded, as per our duty under the UN 1951 pact they like citing. And once they are all eligible to vote.....put pressure to call a vote on dissolving the Dáil and returning Ireland to the British Empire. Also its more fun as up to that time, since theres so few houses, the Irish state will have to throw Irish people out of their houses to house British citizens in their place....doubly so if SF are in power at the time.