Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

jmayo

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Great reply.

Regrettably I fear it will go over his head.

All SF care about is a UI and will try garner votes whatever way possible.

Maybe someone should start reminding sinn fein that we will never be able to afford the North if we spend all our dosh n ayslum seekers ?

Gatling wrote: »

Did anyone see or read about the flights coming from Malta to here especially for asylum seekers (migrant's ) who have previously arrived in Malta through various means

Maybe he who shant be named is tired of them cramping his new island home.
After all what billionaire wants to share an island with a bunch of chancers.

Lest of course they be fellow billionaires.

biko

Gatling wrote: »

Did anyone see or read about the flights coming from Malta to here especially for asylum seekers (migrant's ) who have previously arrived in Malta through various means

I googled and https://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/national/108591/migrants_relocated_to_ireland_from_malta__#.YF244EgmGel

A group of migrants have been relocated to Ireland, government announced on Thursday.
This was the fourth migrant relocation to other European Union member states for the month of March.




Probably because of https://www.thejournal.ie/malta-sea-watch-3-ireland-migrants-4431859-Jan2019/
Ireland to accept migrants from Malta following EU deal to relocate almost 300 people

_Kaiser_

biko wrote: »

I googled and https://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/national/108591/migrants_relocated_to_ireland_from_malta__#.YF244EgmGel

A group of migrants have been relocated to Ireland, government announced on Thursday.
This was the fourth migrant relocation to other European Union member states for the month of March.

And don't they all look miserable, destitute and haunted.... :rolleyes:

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And don't they all look miserable, destitute and haunted.... :rolleyes:

Is that lad at the end of the stairs in the black jacket giving people the finger?

mgn

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And don't they all look miserable, destitute and haunted.... :rolleyes:

All young men also, I suppose wherever these young men are fleeing from its safe for women and kids to stay there. that's probably why you don't see any.

Gatling

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And don't they all look miserable, destitute and haunted.... :rolleyes:

And yet Dp isn't fit for purpose ,we've a global pandemic ongoing but we cannot travel yet were taking in young male migrant's

biko

What do you think will happen when these guys send mails home about their situation in the new country?
Will the people at home stay home, or will they also make the journey over the sea to Malta to be flown to somewhere Europe?
Is this sustainable?

Gatling

biko wrote: »

What do you think will happen when these guys send mails home about their situation in the new country?
Will the people at home stay home, or will they also make the journey over the sea to Europe?

Remember they can apply for family unifications and bring brothers -sisters to grand parents over ,
There celebrating that they are coming to the one country that guarantees they will never be deported

mgn

biko wrote: »

What do you think will happen when these guys send mails home about their situation in the new country?
Will the people at home stay home, or will they also make the journey over the sea to Malta to be flown to somewhere Europe?
Is this sustainable?

Its not sustainable but you have no one to say anything against it, the people that are making these decisions don't want to rock the boat because if the do the will be branded raciest, the also have nice pensions in the bank so the wont go hungry.

mgn

Gatling wrote: »

Remember they can apply for family unifications and bring brothers -sisters to grand parents over ,
There celebrating that they are coming to the one country that guarantees they will never be deported

So for everyone going on to that plane today you could be talking of a few houses each when all the family arrive.
When are people going to wake to f*ck up.

Kivaro

mgn wrote: »

So for everyone going on to that plane today you could be talking of a few houses each when all the family arrive.
When are people going to wake to f*ck up.

Just for clarity, they do not get their own-door housing for another 2 to 3 years because we have to build 6 new reception centres first. The initial capital expenditure of this new setup will be in the €1/2 billion range, but we all know how these costings are deliberately underestimated and then the politicians can claim ignorance when they massively exceed initial estimates (e.g. the new Children's Hospital). The Minister of Children, Roderic O' Gorman, has stated that "measures will be put in place to avoid local dissatisfaction with the location of Reception and Integration Centres". One would have to wonder what these measures are?

There is something unnerving seeing a large group of men flying in to Ireland from Malta in the middle of a very long pandemic lockdown when the citizens of the country cannot travel more than 5 km. It does not appear to be right, does it?

mgn

Kivaro wrote: »

Just for clarity, they do not get their own-door housing for another 2 to 3 years because we have to build 6 new reception centres first. The initial capital expenditure of this new setup will be in the €1/2 billion range, but we all know how these costings are deliberately underestimated and then the politicians can claim ignorance when they massively exceed initial estimates (e.g. the new Children's Hospital). The Minister of Children, Roderic O' Gorman, has stated that "measures will be put in place to avoid local dissatisfaction with the location of Reception and Integration Centres". One would have to wonder what these measures are?

There is something unnerving seeing a large group of men flying in to Ireland from Malta in the middle of a very long pandemic lockdown when the citizens of the country cannot travel more than 5 km. It does not appear to be right, does it?

You know its not right when you see the media not reporting it, not a peep out of nowhere.

No surprise as to who calls the shots in RTE and what the report on,

Kivaro

What the Green Party is doing is building new very expensive large permanent structures all around the country to accept asylum seekers indefinitely i.e. every single year with no end date. They are going against the grain of what other European countries like Denmark and the UK are doing. They have a lot more experience with asylum seekers than Ireland and yet they are abandoning their current systems because they do not work. But Ireland is ploughing ahead with this new no-cap asylum program that will send a beacon to the world's poor that Ireland will provide them with their own homes within 4 months of arriving into the country. It is the height of lunacy, which will not only deny our own citizens access to housing and other social services, but it will diminish all of our quality of lives, and our children's quality of lives.

irishproduce

Nice that the headline media didn't bring you this news. They're deadly. Working against you.

Feadog999

Kivaro wrote: »

Just for clarity, they do not get their own-door housing for another 2 to 3 years because we have to build 6 new reception centres first. The initial capital expenditure of this new setup will be in the €1/2 billion range, but we all know how these costings are deliberately underestimated and then the politicians can claim ignorance when they massively exceed initial estimates (e.g. the new Children's Hospital). The Minister of Children, Roderic O' Gorman, has stated that "measures will be put in place to avoid local dissatisfaction with the location of Reception and Integration Centres". One would have to wonder what these measures are?

There is something unnerving seeing a large group of men flying in to Ireland from Malta in the middle of a very long pandemic lockdown when the citizens of the country cannot travel more than 5 km. It does not appear to be right, does it?

The gas thing about the costings in the white paper is they have an average cost for a 2.5 acre site for one reception centre at about €3 million. You won't get a site near a city for that size for 3 million. So they either plan on putting them in the middle of nowhere or they are underestimating it.

Secondly, the figures they use for housing costs are completely wrong. They are based off an IGEES spending review paper on social housing where 50% of homes/developments didn't include things like abnormal costs, VAT, land works etc so it brought the average down artificially. So in essence the IGEES report used and average of apples and oranges rather than apples and apples. The figure used is about half of what Dublin City Council and the SCSI say it costs to build a home so you could say an all in cost of about €1 billion in the white paper will end up being about €3 billion. People also forgot this is an ongoing expenditure implication so houses will have to be paid for each year and current expenditure to staff it. So this white paper costing is far from a once off and will be a recurring item.

Another point is the white paper says they will use a scheme like the housing assistance payment to source private accomodation for families. We spend about €1 billion on HAP as is, and everyone says it is an inefficient way to spend money yet the white paper is going to compound the issue. And of course this is going to put migrants in direct competition with working people trying to secure rentals for themselves.

They actually mention in the white paper they are going to have a training course so people understand what they are entitled to and how they claim it. They also mention to avoid social isolation migrants will be groups together in the community - exactly what Denmark are trying to stop now.

Crazy stuff altogether.

mgn

Kivaro wrote: »

What the Green Party is doing is building new very expensive large permanent structures all around the country to accept asylum seekers indefinitely i.e. every single year with no end date. They are going against the grain of what other European countries like Denmark and the UK are doing. They have a lot more experience with asylum seekers than Ireland and yet they are abandoning their current systems because they do not work. But Ireland is ploughing ahead with this new no-cap asylum program that will send a beacon to the world's poor that Ireland will provide them with their own homes within 4 months of arriving into the country. It is the height of lunacy, which will not only deny our own citizens access to housing and other social services, but it will diminish all of our quality of lives, and our children's quality of lives.

What I cant get my head around is, when the have examples of it not working in other country's why are the still go ahead the these plans.

What is it with these politicians that's supposed to represent the people of this country bend over backwards to be the best boys in class in Europe.

I thing its high time we got a party that represents the tax payer in this country.

I see they are calling them migrants. Why are migrants being flown into Ireland by the government?

Also UN projections have Africa's population hitting 3 billion over the next 6 or 7 decades. How many do Ireland need to take from this?

Feadog999

mgn wrote: »

All young men also, I suppose wherever these young men are fleeing from its safe for women and kids to stay there. that's probably why you don't see any.

They conveniently have stopped publishing demographics after 2018. But on average looks like 55% to 60% are single males. Increasing to about 70% when including females. Actual families make up under 15%. While the other are lone parent families.

Here is the link to the reports.

http://www.ria.gov.ie/en/RIA/Pages/2018_Statistics

Kivaro

Feadog999 wrote: »

...... And of course this is going to put migrants in direct competition with working people trying to secure rentals for themselves.

Crazy stuff altogether.

Want to guess which of those two groups is going to lose that battle?
It will be the working people in Ireland of course, because the migrants/asylum seekers/refugees will have unlimited funding, in the form of taxes paid by those very same working people, supplied to the migrants by the Irish government. We just cannot compete against the resources of the Irish government who will outbid their own citizens for housing in preference to those who just arrived in the country claiming asylum.

Feadog999

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I see they are calling them migrants. Why are migrants being flown into Ireland by the government?

Also UN projections have Africa's population hitting 3 billion over the next 6 or 7 decades. How many do Ireland need to take from this?

Imagine you had a problem with your sink. The tap wouldn't stop running and the plumber recommends rather than fixing the pipes (the source) you just keep filling up buckets (short term measure). This is exactly what we are doing now. You can't do it forever, either try and help solve the root cause or keep putting these measures in place until it collapses.

Having said that, Ireland spends about €1 billion on foreign aid per year and that dosent seem to help solve any of the root causes in these countries either.

mgn

Feadog999 wrote: »

Imagine you had a problem with your sink. The tap wouldn't stop running and the plumber recommends rather than fixing the pipes (the source) you just keep filling up buckets (short term measure). This is exactly what we are doing now. You can't do it forever, either try and help solve the root cause or keep putting these measures in place until it collapses.

Having said that, Ireland spends about €1 billion on foreign aid per year and that dosent seem to help solve any of the root causes in these countries either.

Like the old saying.

Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day.

Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

A lot a truth in that saying.

Mad_maxx

Feadog999 wrote: »

Got another good response back from a FF TD. To be fair, 3 FF reps gave back decent answers compared to the other parties which have been zero.



Many thanks for your email and for the practical points that you raise in relation to the housing situation and other aspects of the government’s attempts to improve the Direct provision system.



I have read the detail of your mail and will raise it when the parliamentary party discusses the provisions as proposed by government – I agree that they will be particularly difficult to achieve, given the specific challenges we face in the context of home building at present.



Many thanks for raising these with me.

local FF TD i emailed ( Who is a junior minister ) didnt so much as even send me an automated reply

Feadog999

Mad_maxx wrote: »

local FF TD i emailed ( Who is a junior minister ) didnt so much as even send me an automated reply

Same goes for many of mine to be honest. Then again, I emailed about 40 TDs extremely low engagement across all parties but I'll continue. We need to contact as many as we can.

Gunmonkey

mgn wrote: »

What I cant get my head around is, when the have examples of it not working in other country's why are the still go ahead the these plans.

What is it with these politicians that's supposed to represent the people of this country bend over backwards to be the best boys in class in Europe.

I thing its high time we got a party that represents the tax payer in this country.

Classic hard-left ideology...same as other communist countries not trying the "right" kind of communism/socialism that they will be using. They think their **** doesnt stink and it will all work out here when it failed overseas because....erm.....reasons....

Not long until we wont be the best boys in Europe after the many, many ,many migrant NGOs start demanding they get Irish citizenship within a year or so, and such can then travel round Europe freely. Cant see the rest of the EU taking that lightly when we are paying out to flood them with legal-illegal migrants.

punisher5112

Europe seems to want to flood itself with illegal economic migrants.....

They seem to think this will solve the aging population in many countries and these people flooding in will work.... Extremely optimistic...

Real Donald Trump

Country is going to hell, we need a strong right wing party in this country, pronto. It's the only way to put an end to this nonsense..

jmayo

mgn wrote: »

All young men also, I suppose wherever these young men are fleeing from its safe for women and kids to stay there. that's probably why you don't see any.

Oh some of the usuals will be along soon to tell us that they are paving the way because it is so dangerous for the women and kids.

So they are left at home.
You know the place these lads are fleeing from where murder, torture and rape are so common place you can't leave the house. :rolleyes:

mgn wrote: »

Like the old saying.

Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day.

Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

A lot a truth in that saying.

What about when you buy him not alone a fishing rod, but a boat and then have him fish in your little pond.

What happens then?

Well everyone runs out of fish and everyone is worse off

punisher5112

punisher5112 wrote: »

Europe seems to want to flood itself with illegal economic migrants.....

They seem to think this will solve the aging population in many countries and these people flooding in will work.... Extremely optimistic...

Spain and Italy's population are expected to half over the coming few decades, the socialists in Spain see this as a great way to boost their population. The left and centrists in Italy the same, but there is a strong right wing in Italy who are totally opposed to this so they are in a better position. In Ireland's case we have an entire political class who want to be seen as the good boys of Europe so we have signed up to the "coalition of the willing".

If you want to avoid the worst consequences of this buy a house near a politician because while they publicly support this, for some reason they never live in the areas that take all the migrants, I can't quite put my finger on the reason for this.....

jmayo

Real Donald Trump wrote: »

Country is going to hell, we need a strong right wing party in this country, pronto. It's the only way to put an end to this nonsense..

The problem is what passes for right wing parties and politicians i.e. the ones that are anti this sh**show with regards asylum seekers are more fooking interested in controlling our sex lives than anything else.

If those eejits dropped the archbishop McQuaid love in and trying to drag us back to 1950s they would start winning seats.

Noel Grealish proved being anti asylum seeker proved it doesn't affect electability no matter what the media try and do.

Verona Murphy proved the same.

Peter Casey, an absolute terrible candidate in some ways (and no not for his truthful rhetoric on our own indigenous asylum seekers) proved that a lot of ordinary people are sick and tired of the media (social and old fashioned print/airwave) narrative being continously thrown at us.

jmayo

jmayo wrote: »

The problem is what passes for right wing parties and politicians i.e. the ones that are anti this sh**show with regards asylum seekers are more fooking interested in controlling our sex lives than anything else.

If those eejits dropped the archbishop McQuaid love in and trying to drag us back to 1950s they would start winning seats.

Noel Grealish proved being anti asylum seeker proved it doesn't affect electability no matter what the media try and do.

Verona Murphy proved the same.

Peter Casey, an absolute terrible candidate in some ways (and no not for his truthful rhetoric on our own indigenous asylum seekers) proved that a lot of ordinary people are sick and tired of the media (social and old fashioned print/airwave) narrative being continously thrown at us.

We have no one at the moment to represent us, it's unfortunate but hopefully will change, we are the only European country really at this stage in this position.

It's why all our immigration controls are been attacked on an almost weekly basis, relaxation after relaxation of the rules, visa extensions, amnesties, thousands of asylum seekers arriving every year, migrants been flown in, thousands been brought in under relocation programs, family re-unifications, huge increase in foreign student numbers, some of whom remain after to compete in the job market, huge nett non-EU migration every year (20,000 in 2019) etc etc..

It's a huge money spinner for all the vested interests