Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

Feadog999

Hamachi wrote: »

Dr Ribena, I presume?

That's the one.

Hamachi

Feadog999 wrote: »

That's the one.

Quelle Surprise!

You should really consider entering political life. Your well crafted mails and responses to various political figures echo the sentiment of many on the ground.

Feadog999

Hamachi wrote: »

Quelle Surprise!

You should really consider entering political life. Your well crafted mails and responses to various political figures echo the sentiment of many on the ground.

Thanks Hamachi! Is that an offer to he my VP? In all seriousness, if I had a more flexible career I would. Who knows. With the ammount of people regularly contributing on this thread I reckon we could have a decent cabinet

Feadog999

Feadog999 wrote: »

Thanks Hamachi! Is that an offer to he my VP? In all seriousness, if I had a more flexible career I would. Who knows. With the ammount of people regularly contributing on this thread I reckon we could have a decent cabinet

Which is the point really. Everyone is waiting for someone else to commit to starting and running a new party, suffering the accusations of being "right wing", or racists, or whatever.

Over the last decade, I've considered returning to Ireland, for the purpose of gathering a group of like minded people to form an alternative party.. but.. honestly, I don't think the Irish people are ready for it yet. They haven't realised just how bad things are going to become, and just assume it's going to improve again.

It was the same with the Banking crash, and the scandals relating to politicians... which brought Ireland to a particularly low point, but nothing happened. Plenty of complaints, but no politician lost their privileges over it, and if anything, have managed to further secure their benefits since then.

Honestly, I don't think the electorate are ready to support an alternative movement, because each time we've been hit hard by something, the coming out of it has happened relatively quickly... which allows people to dismiss what's happened and they can go back to their old lives. Oh, sure, taxes are raised, and service quality drops, but they'll accept that rather than committing to opposing the political parties. Like, I was so sure that we would have seen the end of FF after the Banking crash.. but people allowed themselves to forget so quickly.

Nope. I don't see any real opposition happening for another decade. Oh, I do think it will happen eventually, although likely it will be encouraged from external sources. (oddly enough, I suspect the EU themselves will push for anti-immigration policies, forcing Ireland to match the changes happening in the rest of Europe).

However, if someone is seriously considering forming such a party, send me a pm, we'll talk it over, and perhaps I'd return to Ireland to live permanently.

Feadog999

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Which is the point really. Everyone is waiting for someone else to commit to starting and running a new party, suffering the accusations of being "right wing", or racists, or whatever.

Over the last decade, I've considered returning to Ireland, for the purpose of gathering a group of like minded people to form an alternative party.. but.. honestly, I don't think the Irish people are ready for it yet. They haven't realised just how bad things are going to become, and just assume it's going to improve again.

It was the same with the Banking crash, and the scandals relating to politicians... which brought Ireland to a particularly low point, but nothing happened. Plenty of complaints, but no politician lost their privileges over it, and if anything, have managed to further secure their benefits since then.

Honestly, I don't think the electorate are ready to support an alternative movement, because each time we've been hit hard by something, the coming out of it has happened relatively quickly... which allows people to dismiss what's happened and they can go back to their old lives. Oh, sure, taxes are raised, and service quality drops, but they'll accept that rather than committing to opposing the political parties. Like, I was so sure that we would have seen the end of FF after the Banking crash.. but people allowed themselves to forget so quickly.

Nope. I don't see any real opposition happening for another decade. Oh, I do think it will happen eventually, although likely it will be encouraged from external sources. (oddly enough, I suspect the EU themselves will push for anti-immigration policies, forcing Ireland to match the changes happening in the rest of Europe).

However, if someone is seriously considering forming such a party, send me a pm, we'll talk it over, and perhaps I'd return to Ireland to live permanently.

100% agree. Everyone (including) myself is waiting for some one else to make a move. Far easier for us to go to the polling station once every 4 years than start something ourselves. But clearly nobody else is going to do it so that is probably the only route.

Kivaro

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

You're encouraging people to vote for SF.

You think that will stop this madness??

Or who are you suggesting we should vote for?

Where did I say that? I certainly will not be voting for SF in the next election. I will most certainly vote for any candidate who advocates for a more pragmatic solution to the current asylum process in Ireland. On one hand the current Irish government is actually making it extremely attractive for asylum seekers to come to Ireland to the detriment of the local population due to the stated preference (housing, apprenticeships etc.) for asylum seekers. This do this while ignoring the reversing trends around Europe in stopping the asylum seeker influx. In their reform of the asylum system they did not address the inherent problems with the multiple years of very costly asylum appeals and the almost zero level of deportations of failed asylum seekers here. It is plain to see that this is a one sided approach in order to substantially increase the numbers arriving from all over the world. This will only drive the "surge", as Richard Bruton calls it.

Sinn Fein has an official policy of no deportation for any asylum seeker, even after they commit murder, rape, and other serious crimes. And no deportation after multiple appeals; irrespective if the asylum application was found to be fraudulent. How anyone can vote for them with this stance is mindboggling.

Mr. teddywinkles

NaFirinne wrote: »

This combined with the New Green Act and covid, on top of a huge debt we are paying off. How can we as a nation geniunely afford it all?

They wouldn't even pay student nurses.

This a million times said. Its mental.
Where exactly is this horde going to work. Pop them all into high tech jobs?

newhouse87

All you need is genuine center right people with financial backing, members would need an extensive background check including all previous social media as any dodgy postings that can be shown as being racist would be a death knell as rte and other media would hop on it, a genuine group not some anti all immigrants brigade with logical policies and against this us style identity politics would do well. Some high profile members would be welcome to get things started.

Feadog999

Feadog999 wrote: »

100% agree. Everyone (including) myself is waiting for some one else to make a move. Far easier for us to go to the polling station once every 4 years than start something ourselves. But clearly nobody else is going to do it so that is probably the only route.

The time for a new party is after the COVID collapse and SF get elected and make things even worse. When it becomes abundantly clear we aren't getting out of this anytime soon. I fear it won't be a level headed liberal small government party though, more like an inward looking "maidens dancing at the crossroads - as long as they are 3rd generation Irish" crowd.

KeepItLight

Government buildings wrote: »

Unfortunately, there is no party to vote for.

You can vote for the National Party. I know there are unsavory elements but Christ, it's a small price to pay when you look at the alternative.

Feadog999

I submitted a freedom of information request to the department of public expenditure and reform regarding internal communications and costings research in relation to the plan. I submitted it on the 27th of March. They have now let me know that it isn't possible to fulfill within the agreed timeline and did I want to decrease the scope of the FOI or am I happy to wait another 2 weeks.

Told them I'll wait the two weeks. Guarantee they will come up with some other issue in the meantime.

timmyntc

KeepItLight wrote: »

You can vote for the National Party. I know there are unsavory elements but Christ, it's a small price to pay when you look at the alternative.

Ah here, the entire party is unsavoury.
Not that voting for them wouldn't light a fire under other parties and hopefully make them cop on a bit - but make no mistake that the party itself are genuine nutters. Ideally theyd get enough votes to scare other parties, but not enough to govern. We'd really be screwed then!

Wibbs

KeepItLight wrote: »

You can vote for the National Party. I know there are unsavory elements but Christ, it's a small price to pay when you look at the alternative.

Christ no. The NP are beyond a farce. The right wing version of pie in the sky fcukwits like the left wing PBP type crowd. I wouldn't want either of them running a residents association, never mind be in government. This is the major problem with Irish politics. Many cheeks of the same arse with broadly similar policies who when they get into power those similarities become even more fixed. All awaiting their turn at the trough between elections.

Mad_maxx

while i would welcome a new party which focuses on people who work and pay tax along with being immune to WOKE credentials .

no such outfit has a chance unless a vaguely conservative media outlet emerges , the media in ireland are merciless towards anyone who doesnt toe the progressive line

KeepItLight

timmyntc wrote: »

Ah here, the entire party is unsavoury.
Not that voting for them wouldn't light a fire under other parties and hopefully make them cop on a bit - but make no mistake that the party itself are genuine nutters. Ideally theyd get enough votes to scare other parties, but not enough to govern. We'd really be screwed then!

I disagree. People have them painted as some sort of insane boogeyman, but from what I've heard from them and the seen on their website - the two most controversial positions they hold are to ban abortion and introduce the death penalty for particularly heinous crimes. I agree that the former is way too divisive and a stupid position to hold in term of realpolitik, regardless of the courage of their convictions. The latter - absolutely agree with and I'm sure a majority of people in this country would too whether they would openly admit it or not.

Also, JB might be an unsavoury character, and a hypocrite, but he is far less evil that the likes of Roderick O'Gorman et al imo..

The idea that they are off the table because they are unsavoury and would be savaged in the media is redundant. Guess what, even if you get a soft-right party they will be branded as far-right in the media and the usual cohort of useful idiots. There is no engaging with them to reach a compromise, they don't want that.

timmyntc

KeepItLight wrote: »

I disagree. People have them painted as some sort of insane boogeyman, but from what I've heard from them and the seen on their website - the two most controversial positions they hold are to ban abortion and introduce the death penalty for particularly heinous crimes. I agree that the former is way too divisive and a stupid position to hold in term of realpolitik, regardless of the courage of their convictions. The latter - absolutely agree with and I'm sure a majority of people in this country would too whether they would openly admit it or not.

Also, JB might be an unsavoury character, and a hypocrite, but he is far less evil that the likes of Roderick O'Gorman et al imo..

The idea that they are off the table because they are unsavoury and would be savaged in the media is redundant. Guess what, even if you get a soft-right party they will be branded as far-right in the media and the usual cohort of useful idiots. There is no engaging with them to reach a compromise, they don't want that.

It's well earned reputation. I know the word racist is fairly watered down nowadays, but most of the NP candidates are actual racists. Just look at the ****e they spew on twitter. They dont do themselves any favours.

Also I'm pretty sure that EU membership and the death penalty do not mix. IIRC its one of the sticking points for why Turkey couldnt get into the EU.

newhouse87

Barrett has no redeeming features, that party is a non-runner with a leader like him and always will be.

Marcos

Well one thing I would like to see if this does go through, and as money seems to be no problem, is equal load sharing i.e. forcing some communities to have migrants housed in say Dalkey, Mount Merrion, Clontarf, Montennote etc. Let the voters there experience in the benefits of diversity as other areas and small towns up and down the country will have this foisted upon them.

Even better, I think that the cheerleaders of this project should be acknowledged and have such centres named after them. We could have the Aodhán O'Riordan Centre in Clontarf for example. The Simon Coveney Centre in Kinsale, the Ivana Bacic or maybe the Eamon Ryan Centre in Ranelagh. The Roderic O'Gorman Centre in Castleknock. That way people will be able to see and thank the architects of this scheme.

Somehow I won't be holding my breath.

KeepItLight

timmyntc wrote: »

It's well earned reputation. I know the word racist is fairly watered down nowadays, but most of the NP candidates are actual racists. Just look at the ****e they spew on twitter. They dont do themselves any favours.

Also I'm pretty sure that EU membership and the death penalty do not mix. IIRC its one of the sticking points for why Turkey couldnt get into the EU.

Well aren't we sort of an 'pick your poison' scenario here? The country is being destroyed by the likes were discussing a few pages ago, it's not a case of when anymore - it's already happening. I don't see how a protest vote would be worse, if only to cause the likes of FG to pull the brakes a little bit on their current woke trajectory.

TomTomTim

KeepItLight wrote: »

Well aren't we sort of an 'pick your poison' scenario here? The country is being destroyed by the likes were discussing a few pages ago, it's not a case of when anymore - it's already happening. I don't see how a protest vote would be worse, if only to cause the likes of FG to pull the brakes a little bit on their current woke trajectory.

This is the issue for me. People are way too picky. It's like they are waiting for some perfect party to come along, but that won't happen. I'm no fan of the NP myself, so maybe they aren't the best example to use, but people have to realize what should be obvious, whoever leads any anti mass immigration/multiculturalism parties, will be unmercifully smeared by the left and the media. They'll be called Nazis, far right, racist, and every other name under the sun. The media doesn't care about substance, they simply care about keeping the left in power.

timmyntc

KeepItLight wrote: »

Well aren't we sort of an 'pick your poison' scenario here? The country is being destroyed by the likes were discussing a few pages ago, it's not a case of when anymore - it's already happening. I don't see how a protest vote would be worse, if only to cause the likes of FG to pull the brakes a little bit on their current woke trajectory.

I never said a protest vote would be worse - as I said before, it makes sense.
Just make no mistake about the NP - they might be good as a protest vote to help "shift Irish politics" to the right a bit, but they are not good people. The two positions do not contradict each other - I'm just countering whoever said that the NP are just a few bad eggs in the wider party. They arent.

EddieN75

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_nationalist_parties_in_Europe

Ireland is one of only 3 countries in all of Europe

OneEightSeven

For those of you objecting to voting for the National Party, take a look at what happened in Holland and Austria during the height of the migration crisis. When their right-wing nationalist parties took the lead in the polls, the centre-right party suddenly decided immigration is a topic of concern because they risked losing their seats.

If the National Party start performing well in the polls, just watch as members of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail start making noise about immigration. Typically, there will be infighting in the party, the leader will step down and they'll elect a new one to win back voters from the right-wing nationalist party.

Most of these centre-right politicians just go with the flow and you're not going to change their mind by voting for them.

KeepItLight

timmyntc wrote: »

I never said a protest vote would be worse - as I said before, it makes sense.
Just make no mistake about the NP - they might be good as a protest vote to help "shift Irish politics" to the right a bit, but they are not good people. The two positions do not contradict each other - I'm just countering whoever said that the NP are just a few bad eggs in the wider party. They arent.

You're right, you did make that point before & I hadn't noticed.

I agree btw, I don't think there is a chance in hell that the NP would ever get enough votes to have any power, but it would be a wake up call to others, and hopefully to the Irish population that they do have the right & ability to dissent.

jmayo

EddieN75 wrote: »

https://www.oireachtas.ie/hourly/


The basic minutes for anyone interested in what these people are actually saying.

O Gorman
Joe O Brien (also green party) s
Pa Daly (SF)
Kathleen Functhion also SF
Jennifer Murnane FF
Cathal Crowe FF
Richard Bruton FG
John LaHart
Brid Smith PBP
John McGuiness FF
Padraic o Sullivan FF
Bernard Durkin FG
Reads Croinin SF
Dennis Naughton IND
Marc o caitsaigh (green party)
Joe Flaherty FF
Michael Collins IND
Matty McGrath IND
Thomas Pringle IND
Catherine Connolly IND

Two words I sue to describe them
Quisling cnuts

That is what they are, they want to sell out their own state's citizens and population.

KeepItLight wrote: »

You can vote for the National Party. I know there are unsavory elements but Christ, it's a small price to pay when you look at the alternative.

They are unsavory bunch and I can't stand some of the religious elements.

But is it now getting to a case of needing someone to send a message to the mainstream parties.

People voted for Le Pen because they have had enough, especially places like Pas de Calais area.
Suddenly the likes of Macron is changing his direction somewhat realising the writing is on the wall if he doesn't.

I know it is very hard to set up a party from scratch especially without financial backing and without some media backing.
And make no mistake a conservative party will not alone have no media backing it will be assaulted by the media from the very start.

Is Declan Ganley still interested I wonder ?

So is another option to take over something like the NP that already exists, then remove it's more toxic elements both in terms of people and policies?

Do a sinn fein and make it a more palatable entity.
Or would that take too long ?

Feadog999

jmayo wrote: »

Two words I sue to describe them
Quisling cnuts

That is what they are, they want to sell out their own state's citizens and population.



They are unsavory bunch and I can't stand some of the religious elements.

But is it now getting to a case of needing someone to send a message to the mainstream parties.

People voted for Le Pen because they have had enough, especially places like Pas de Calais area.
Suddenly the likes of Macron is changing his direction somewhat realising the writing is on the wall if he doesn't.

I know it is very hard to set up a party from scratch especially without financial backing and without some media backing.
And make no mistake a conservative party will not alone have no media backing it will be assaulted by the media from the very start.

Is Declan Ganley still interested I wonder ?

So is another option to take over something like the NP that already exists, then remove it's more toxic elements both in terms of people and policies?

Do a sinn fein and make it a more palatable entity.
Or would that take too long ?

Funny that you mention Ganley. Was only thinking of reaching out to him to see how he feels about it. I don't know his position on unchecked immigration. Peter Casey is another, although same there.

NP is probably too unpalatable to ever change public opinion. Might have some chance with a party like Renua though and oddly enough I had a scan through their website last night. They support a lot of what people are saying here as far as I could tell bit open to correction.

Reminder though to contact senior and outspoken TDs and senators with your views even contact the media at this stage. It might get us nowhere but all we need is one win to turn the discourse

jmayo

Is there anyone in NP that could be electable, need to look at the individual and their location.

Barrett ran in East constituency for Europeans, but really the guy has such much fooking baggage and you couldn't trust the fooker to not mention abortion or religion.
His other half ran in Limerick at some stage.

A half decent candidate in the right selected constituency could get elected.

Also what about other option of targeting independents with ultimate aim of unification into a party ?
Already might have two Grealish and Murphy.

Edit: hadn't thought of Renua.

Jinglejangle69

I'd definitely vote for any party who voices some concern on this policy be it Renua or the NP.

I don't care, this type of policy which is been rushed in under the cover of darkness could have huge negative consequences on future generations.

Like the labour's attempt to reverse the result of the referendum in 2004.

These minority parties, how are they having do much sway on hugely important issues?

Marcos

Marcos wrote: »

Well one thing I would like to see if this does go through, and as money seems to be no problem, is equal load sharing i.e. forcing some communities to have migrants housed in say Dalkey, Mount Merrion, Clontarf, Montennote etc. Let the voters there experience in the benefits of diversity as other areas and small towns up and down the country will have this foisted upon them.

Even better, I think that the cheerleaders of this project should be acknowledged and have such centres named after them. We could have the Aodhán O'Riordan Centre in Clontarf for example. The Simon Coveney Centre in Kinsale, the Ivana Bacic or maybe the Eamon Ryan Centre in Ranelagh. The Roderic O'Gorman Centre in Castleknock. That way people will be able to see and thank the architects of this scheme.

Somehow I won't be holding my breath.

Regardless of these people experiencing having migrants nearby, it makes sense to spread them out to avoid the tribal/enclave situation that has tended to happen in other countries, since it would encourage integration/interaction between migrant groups and native Irish people, lessening any divides between them.

newhouse87

Deleted User wrote: »

Regardless of these people experiencing having migrants nearby, it makes sense to spread them out to avoid the tribal/enclave situation that has tended to happen in other countries, since it would encourage integration/interaction between migrant groups and native Irish people, lessening any divides between them.

Is the white paper not suggesting to put as many migrants in one location to prevent social isolation? Its the most ridiculous way of looking at it as a solution if that's true, opposite to what Denmark of now trying to do.