Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

EddieN75

newhouse87 wrote: »

Is the white paper not suggesting to put as many migrants in one location to prevent social isolation? Its the most ridiculous way of looking at it as a solution if that's true, opposite to what Denmark of now trying to do.

According to the white paper and Minister O'Gorman comments yesterday apartment blocks will be built and/or bought in towns and cities exclusively for refugees.

Feadog999

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Regardless of these people experiencing having migrants nearby, it makes sense to spread them out to avoid the tribal/enclave situation that has tended to happen in other countries, since it would encourage integration/interaction between migrant groups and native Irish people, lessening any divides between them.

The white paper specifically mentions the need to group them together in housing to avoid social isolation so it is a very policy to form enclaves. Which totally goes against learnings from Europe - which goes to show the thought and research that was put into the white paper

newhouse87

newhouse87 wrote: »

Is the white paper not suggesting to put as many migrants in one location to prevent social isolation? Its the most ridiculous way of looking at it as a solution if that's true, opposite to what Denmark of now trying to do.

I lived in Frankfurt in the early 90s for a while, where there is a sizable Turkish/Arab community, for the most part, all housed together. Their businesses and services provided by that community are all there too. The language spoken in the streets wasn't German, the signs weren't in German, and there were common violent clashes between local Germans and the Turkish... not simply caused by the Germans, but also territorial fights caused by the Turks themselves.

The people who push these initiatives refuse to accept the lessons of the past.

jmayo

EddieN75 wrote: »

According to the white paper and Minister O'Gorman comments yesterday apartment blocks will be built and/or bought in towns and cities exclusively for refugees.

These morons are now getting dangerous.
They are actually going out of their way to create the Moleenbeeks and Sevrans of 2050 Ireland.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

Regardless of these people experiencing having migrants nearby, it makes sense to spread them out to avoid the tribal/enclave situation that has tended to happen in other countries, since it would encourage integration/interaction between migrant groups and native Irish people, lessening any divides between them.

Problem being again, human nature. For all the pipe dreams and naivete involved in the diversity is wonderful believers the plain fact is people prefer to be around those most like them in background ethnicity and will seek each other out. This is evidenced anywhere you look in multicultural countries. Once populations reach a certain size you will always find Asian communities, African communities, Muslim, Christian Spanish, Italian, Irish, Jewish and so on(wealth follows a similar pattern). They usually coalesce around cultural touchstones like places of worship, though industry and shops selling cultural items like food etc are also in play. It's pretty much inevitable. These enclaves form organically as more and more of one group settle in one area over time and those not of that community tend to move out over time. Again these are almost exclusively urban areas.

That's another problem with the "settle migrants" in rural areas. Usually with the promise of revitalising such areas. That doesn't work either and again we can look elsewhere for other's experiences. Spain tried to repopulate rural areas with folks from South America. People showed up settled in, but the second they could leave for the bright lights, that's exactly what they did. It was a temporary renewal. Obviously, because the reasons the locals left the rural for the urban didn't change and they haven't changed in Ireland.

Masala

Deleted User wrote: »

I lived in Frankfurt in the early 90s for a while, where there is a sizable Turkish/Arab community, for the most part, all housed together. Their businesses and services provided by that community are all there too. The language spoken in the streets wasn't German, the signs weren't in German, and there were common violent clashes between local Germans and the Turkish... not simply caused by the Germans, but also territorial fights caused by the Turks themselves.

The people who push these initiatives refuse to accept the lessons of the past.

.... in effect - Ghettos!!

Marcos

OneEightSeven wrote: »

For those of you objecting to voting for the National Party, take a look at what happened in Holland and Austria during the height of the migration crisis. When their right-wing nationalist parties took the lead in the polls, the centre-right party suddenly decided immigration is a topic of concern because they risked losing their seats.

If the National Party start performing well in the polls, just watch as members of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail start making noise about immigration. Typically, there will be infighting in the party, the leader will step down and they'll elect a new one to win back voters from the right-wing nationalist party.

Most of these centre-right politicians just go with the flow and you're not going to change their mind by voting for them.

My money will be on FF to tack right after the next election as their vote is tanking anyway. They know that there are votes there for any serious political party. The only question is how much damage will be done in the meantime.

EddieN75

Marcos wrote: »

My money will be on FF to tack right after the next election as their vote is tanking anyway. They know that there are votes there for any serious political party. The only question is how much damage will be done in the meantime.

We need a party who sticks firm with their policies no matter the political weather.
A party that will follow through on promises and commitments despite possible public backlash from some quarters or Eu pressure.
Voting for a party who change like the wind is not a successful recipe in my view.

Masala

Masala wrote: »

.... in effect - Ghettos!!

Depends on which meaning you want to use though. Forced segregation, or minority racial communities in poorly serviced areas?

In any case, regardless of the definition, it's something we should be avoiding like the plague.

Mad_maxx

Wibbs wrote: »

Problem being again, human nature. For all the pipe dreams and naivete involved in the diversity is wonderful believers the plain fact is people prefer to be around those most like them in background ethnicity and will seek each other out. This is evidenced anywhere you look in multicultural countries. Once populations reach a certain size you will always find Asian communities, African communities, Muslim, Christian Spanish, Italian, Irish, Jewish and so on(wealth follows a similar pattern). They usually coalesce around cultural touchstones like places of worship, though industry and shops selling cultural items like food etc are also in play. It's pretty much inevitable. These enclaves form organically as more and more of one group settle in one area over time and those not of that community tend to move out over time. Again these are almost exclusively urban areas.

That's another problem with the "settle migrants" in rural areas. Usually with the promise of revitalising such areas. That doesn't work either and again we can look elsewhere for other's experiences. Spain tried to repopulate rural areas with folks from South America. People showed up settled in, but the second they could leave for the bright lights, that's exactly what they did. It was a temporary renewal. Obviously, because the reasons the locals left the rural for the urban didn't change and they haven't changed in Ireland.

Moving refugees to rural areas is an awful idea.

Rural folk don't even accept Irish people who grew up outside the parish and aren't " seed ,breed and generation "

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Moving refugees to rural areas is an awful idea.

Rural folk don't even accept Irish people who grew up outside the parish and aren't " seed ,breed and generation "

I think the point was more to bring them to the towns (Longford, Roscommon, Thurles, etc) in the countryside, as opposed to the actual sticks. Like what they did with encouraging migrants to move to Longford... although that proved disastrous for the town itself.

Still if you look at a town like Athlone, every third person you meet in the town itself is Eastern European, or African. There's a sizable group of Indians due to Ericsson, but over the last few years, the numbers of Africans has jumped far beyond what used to be around.

Problem is, few of them are contributing anything since they all stick together in their own communities... although at least the EE and Indians are usually employed in a professional capacity.

aziz

What was disastrous for Longford?

KeepItLight

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Moving refugees to rural areas is an awful idea.

Rural folk don't even accept Irish people who grew up outside the parish and aren't " seed ,breed and generation "

That's not true in my experience at all. We've had a host of different families from all over the world integrate just fine in my small town. The difference is, they opened up businesses and interacted with the locals daily.

Provided they engaged with the local community and sought honest work, I can't see how it would be any difference for refugees. And if they didn't, the locals would be right to not welcome them.

EddieN75

aziz wrote: »

What was disastrous for Longford?

Have you ever been?
Longford town is an odd kind of a place

aziz

EddieN75 wrote: »

Have you ever been?
Longford town is an odd kind of a place

Not in over 20 years

enricoh

Read on another thread iirc only 12% of under 40s own their own house in Ireland. Maybe someone can post a link.
There is huge funding issues coming soon to Ireland and these clowns propose an open cheque to pay for all this.

I reckon in the years ahead a lot of these under 40s will emigrate sick of paying high rents. Up the road from me 3 bed semi's are 2k a month to rent in balbriggan. Totally unsustainable unless you're the government, then it's no bother , they rent anything going.
Big brain drain coming, but big woke points right now for our politicians, which is a lot more important!

JustAThought

Nobody is talking about safety and criminals and the hugely differing attitudes to women that some of these new illegals will be bringing. Or that passports and ID to identify WHO they are is going to be made unnecessary by the govt in the next year. We will have no way of checking anyones criminal status, where they are actualy from and if they have ever been convicted of rape, murder, violent crimes etc before setting them loose in communal corridors and appartment blocks.

Who is this protecting - them - what about us?

And why have they learned absolutely nothing from the rape culture and gang culture imported by so called refugees - illegals - into countries such as Sweden and Germany who now have a tape culture crisis headed by these illegal immigrant (non catholic) violent men.

mikemac2

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Moving refugees to rural areas is an awful idea.

Rural folk don't even accept Irish people who grew up outside the parish and aren't " seed ,breed and generation "

Hah you can get married and move from a neighbouring county and 40 years later the postmistress will call you a blow-in

Feadog999

JustAThought wrote: »

Nobody is talking about safety and criminals and the hugely differing attitudes to women that some of these new illegals will be bringing. Or that passports and ID to identify WHO they are is going to be made unnecessary by the govt in the next year. We will have no way of checking anyones criminal status, where they are actualy from and if they have ever been convicted of rape, murder, violent crimes etc before setting them loose in communal corridors and appartment blocks.

Who is this protecting - them - what about us?

And why have they learned absolutely nothing from the rape culture and gang culture imported by so called refugees - illegals - into countries such as Sweden and Germany who now have a tape culture crisis headed by these illegal immigrant (non catholic) violent men.

It's a startling read when you look up the demographic characteristics of rape in Sweden. 73% of convicted rapists between 2013 to 2018 were from either the middle East or Africa - 16% were European.

A Swedish newspaper investigated gang rape stats for 2 years and found of the 43 cases that happened 40 of them were either immigrants or Swedish born to immigrant parents

In cases where victims did not know the perpetrator 80% of the cases were foreign born perpetrators

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden

The One Doctor

The only people who complain about this are middle class ruggerbuggers.

Sand

jmayo wrote: »

They are unsavory bunch and I can't stand some of the religious elements.

But is it now getting to a case of needing someone to send a message to the mainstream parties.

This is the harsh reality. When all of the mainstream Irish parties have the same script which dooms us to repeat the mass migration errors of our neighbors then you have to look at the parties outside the mainstream which have polices rejecting those errors.

We believe in the Irish people, our right to exist as a nation and our right to defend and lay claim to our homeland.

As core principles go, this is revolutionary in the present era. Even SF - a pseudo nationalist party - would deny there is any such thing as an Irish person or that Irish people have any special claim to their homeland.

We seek an Ireland united, Irish and free.

Okay, but a nation is about people not geography.

We stand against the criminal financial institutions which have enslaved future generations of Irish men and women to debt without end.

If this is a reference to the bank bailouts, that battle was lost a decade ago.

We stand against the corrupt and amoral establishment who push replacement level immigration which will in time completely destroy Irish nationality.

Agree. We live in an era where 1 in 5 residents in Ireland were born abroad. This doesn't count their descendants. Ethnic Irish may be less than 3 in 4. Most living Irish people can remember when mass emigration was the Irish narrative and so simply cant comprehend that the course of history has reversed so completely and so quickly that the ethnic Irish are less than 75% of the population of their homeland in just 2-3 decades.

We stand against the project of a federated European Superstate which is explicitly anti-national and therefore anti-Irish.

I find this problematic. I agree the EU as presently constituted is wholeheartedly neoliberal. But any group with Irish national interests at heart has to see the EU - or some form of European unity - as inherently positive. To put it a different way, if we don't like the Irish government we attempt to replace them with a better government. We do not abandon the idea of an Irish government altogether.

What the men of 1916 saw as the coarse grubby materialism of the British Empire is at large in our own time in the form of international liberalism which infects the whole western world.

This can't be disagreed with.

The National Party insists that no law should permit the provision of Abortion in Ireland.

I don't agree with this absolutist position. Like most Irish people I have heard horror stories about the impact of similar laws upon relatives. In my case, a female relative of mine was forced to 'carry' a dead fetus to 9 months before doctors would agree to 'deliver' the body for fear of abortion laws. As the final cruelty, prior to the 'delivery' she was placed in a maternity ward so she could see happy mothers with their newborn children. So I find this policy the hardest to hold my nose over.

But if the alternative is mass migration turning all of Ireland into Rotherham, and no mainsteam Irish party will offer a policy rejecting mass migration then what other choice does a sane voter have?

aziz

aziz wrote: »

What was disastrous for Longford?

The problem for longford was lack of investment, and also a lack of job creation. The local economy had been struggling for a long time as businesses chose to go to Athlone, Roscommon, or even Mullingar. So, as a town it was on a downward spiral even before they received large batches of migrants. Longford has always been a somewhat "rough" town with a sizable presence of Travellers, so with the influx of migrants, and the lack of employment and investment to make the town more enjoyable to live in, it really has started to hit the bottom. Many of the traditional townies have left the town to move into the countryside which leaves little going on.

The issue isn't the migrants alone. There were few jobs for them to avail of. Nor were there proper services receiving adequate funding. But that's really the problem with the idea of pushing migrants into the countryside. Many of the towns in the countryside are failing... and pushing an increase of a population with limited ability to integrate, or find employment, causes serious issues to occur, especially when we consider their children who grow up in "unfortunate" circumstances.

The One Doctor

The One Doctor wrote: »

The only people who complain about this are middle class ruggerbuggers.

So, you're a "middle class ruggerbugger", then?

clytemnestra

JustAThought wrote: »

Nobody is talking about safety and criminals and the hugely differing attitudes to women that some of these new illegals will be bringing. Or that passports and ID to identify WHO they are is going to be made unnecessary by the govt in the next year. We will have no way of checking anyones criminal status, where they are actualy from and if they have ever been convicted of rape, murder, violent crimes etc before setting them loose in communal corridors and appartment blocks.

Who is this protecting - them - what about us?

And why have they learned absolutely nothing from the rape culture and gang culture imported by so called refugees - illegals - into countries such as Sweden and Germany who now have a tape culture crisis headed by these illegal immigrant (non catholic) violent men.

I've tried and have been called a racist. A turning point for me was the New Year's Eve mass sexual assaults in Cologne and other German cities a few years ago. The media tried to cover it up, then minimised it, then there was deflection and waffling about cultural contexts etc. I lost respect for a lot of people I knew over that, people who I had seen as decent and pro-women's rights. But when it came to the crunch, they prioritised middle Eastern men (who may or may not have been part of 2015's refugee influx, it seems that most of them were North African petty criminals and illegal migrants who were there for a while) over German women's right to have a night out without being sexually assaulted. It was awful. And I'm a woman and I've lived in European cities with populations of men from cultures that don't respect women. It's a big problem for girls and women, being harassed and catcalled relentlessly and not able to go about their business in peace. But you often find with the woke types, particularly men, that they don't give a **** about this and "non-white, non European" trumps being female in the victimhood stakes. It makes me so angry to realise that this is coming down the tracks here.

Nokia6230i

Immigrants/Foreigners; you do realise an Irish person in France is one, an Irish person in Syria, Venezuela, USA, Australia, Iraq, Brazil etc is an immigrant, is a foreigner......

The Far Right've simply gone down the Daily Fail, Liberal, Gript, Sun route of "Immigrant/Foreigner" - not White; it's lazy & a cop out for when Irish people commit crimes abroad; we get called "Ex Pats" even though that was primarily given to UK residents in Spain; so we're now lumped in with them?

Not a good place to be & to be accepting of it after the whole 800 years thing is even more odd by Irish "Patriots", Republicans & Nationalists; categories which've become redundant due to Gemma/Dolores/National Party etc. use; when your lot idolise a British Soldier in a British Army involved in killing Irish people as an Irish Patriot then it's time to pull the plug on the charade.

My relatives in UK & USA're foreigners & immigrants; they say so themselves; they identify & align themselves with the Windrush generation in UK, Jamaicans & Pakistanis there & Hispanic in US; it's the Far Right who use immigrants & foreigners to tar, well, lets be honest here, people in DP, Muslims & black people; the only caveat being if you're black & famous then you're okay but clearly not the rest of them; it doesn't work like that so catch yourselves on & have a day off.

TomTomTim

Nokia6230i wrote: »

Immigrants/Foreigners; you do realise an Irish person in France is one, an Irish person in Syria, Venezuela, USA, Australia, Iraq, Brazil etc is an immigrant, is a foreigner......

The Far Right've simply gone down the Daily Fail, Liberal, Gript, Sun route of "Immigrant/Foreigner" - not White; it's lazy & a cop out for when Irish people commit crimes abroad; we get called "Ex Pats" even though that was primarily given to UK residents in Spain; so we're now lumped in with them?

Not a good place to be & to be accepting of it after the whole 800 years thing is even more odd by Irish "Patriots", Republicans & Nationalists; categories which've become redundant due to Gemma/Dolores/National Party etc. use; when your lot idolise a British Soldier in a British Army involved in killing Irish people as an Irish Patriot then it's time to pull the plug on the charade.

My relatives in UK & USA're foreigners & immigrants; they say so themselves; they identify & align themselves with the Windrush generation in UK, Jamaicans & Pakistanis there & Hispanic in US; it's the Far Right who use immigrants & foreigners to tar, well, lets be honest here, people in DP, Muslims & black people; the only caveat being if you're black & famous then you're okay but clearly not the rest of them; it doesn't work like that so catch yourselves on & have a day off.

Yes, we know what the definition of a foreigner is.

suicide_circus

OneEightSeven wrote: »

For those of you objecting to voting for the National Party, take a look at what happened in Holland and Austria during the height of the migration crisis. When their right-wing nationalist parties took the lead in the polls, the centre-right party suddenly decided immigration is a topic of concern because they risked losing their seats.

If the National Party start performing well in the polls, just watch as members of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail start making noise about immigration. Typically, there will be infighting in the party, the leader will step down and they'll elect a new one to win back voters from the right-wing nationalist party.

Most of these centre-right politicians just go with the flow and you're not going to change their mind by voting for them.

Fair point actually

Wibbs

Nokia6230i wrote: »

Immigrants/Foreigners; you do realise an Irish person in France is one, an Irish person in Syria, Venezuela, USA, Australia, Iraq, Brazil etc is an immigrant, is a foreigner......

Yes, and?

The Far Right've simply gone down the Daily Fail, Liberal, Gript, Sun route of "Immigrant/Foreigner" - not White; it's lazy & a cop out for when Irish people commit crimes abroad; we get called "Ex Pats" even though that was primarily given to UK residents in Spain; so we're now lumped in with them?

Not a good place to be & to be accepting of it after the whole 800 years thing is even more odd by Irish "Patriots", Republicans & Nationalists; categories which've become redundant due to Gemma/Dolores/National Party etc. use; when your lot idolise a British Soldier in a British Army involved in killing Irish people as an Irish Patriot then it's time to pull the plug on the charade.

I have zero idea what this means.

My relatives in UK & USA're foreigners & immigrants; they say so themselves; they identify & align themselves with the Windrush generation in UK, Jamaicans & Pakistanis there & Hispanic in US; it's the Far Right who use immigrants & foreigners to tar, well, lets be honest here, people in DP, Muslims & black people; the only caveat being if you're black & famous then you're okay but clearly not the rest of them; it doesn't work like that so catch yourselves on & have a day off.

This isn't any more enlightening either tbh, but OK let's take this further.

Did your relatives in the UK and US enter those countries illegally, destroy their passports, claim asylum and get on a fast track to social housing and welfare over the local British and American population? Did the Windrush generation for that matter? They almost certainly did not. The issue is not, nor should be about genuine asylum seekers. They should be supported, illegal economic migrants and social welfare and passport tourists should not.

Oh and those same chancers aren't all Black either. Leo Varadkar, who last time I checked had an Indian dad noted that Georgia and Albania were hotspots for bogus claimants and last time I checked Georgians and Albanians are White. Of course he got roasted for "gaslighting" by the usual avoiders of reality in the media and vested interest NGOs, even though he avoided noting that nations like Nigeria were worse on this score. He knows better.

The Georgian ambassador himself said on the matter: "To my knowledge the majority of asylum seekers are not granted asylum due the groundless basis of their application," He must be a right wing racist too, or maybe not as he's White talking about other White people.

But let's listen to some Black African voices, being apparently "far right racists": The Nigerian embassy back in 2004 stated The Nigerian embassy has accused some of its nationals of making "unfounded allegations" against the country in a "desperate attempt" to remain in Ireland when their asylum applications fail.

The embassy accused "bogus" Nigerian asylum-seekers of making "terrible and unfounded" allegations against their country of origin in order to stay in Ireland "at all costs".

In a statement, it also accused journalists and non-governmental organisations of encouraging asylum-seekers to "vilify" Nigeria as a means of staying in Ireland.

"It is the fundamental human right of everyone to seek a better life wherever he or she feels it is available. However, the choice of vilifying Nigeria in a desperate bid for a perceived better life, with encouragement from the Irish media and non-governmental organisations, is a step in the wrong direction."

Note too how they point to the Irish media and vested interest NGOs were encouraging this nonsense. They were spot on then and they'd be spot on since and today. This nonsense was supported by the birth passport loophole that arose from the GFA. A loophole that was closed by an overwhelming majority in a vote by the Irish people in 08. A loophole that some like Labour want to reopen(well apparently we were all "racists" back in 08 for closing it). Now we have the justice minister giving amnesty to at least 15,000 illegals already here(watch that number climb) and now we have a screw up like DP being scrapped in favour of an even bigger screw up that will open this country up to even more chancers. Only this time the Irish electorate won't be given the choice to agree or disagree with it. Well those pushing for these policies wouldn't want to risk such a vote.

Nokia6230i

Nokia6230i wrote: »

Immigrants/Foreigners; you do realise an Irish person in France is one, an Irish person in Syria, Venezuela, USA, Australia, Iraq, Brazil etc is an immigrant, is a foreigner......

Yes, and they will remain a foreigner in most of those countries regardless of what hoops they jump through to try to become accepted. Only in Western nations, is there an expectation for foreigners to be able to become equal in status of a native person.

The Far Right've simply gone down the Daily Fail, Liberal, Gript, Sun route of "Immigrant/Foreigner" - not White; it's lazy & a cop out for when Irish people commit crimes abroad; we get called "Ex Pats" even though that was primarily given to UK residents in Spain; so we're now lumped in with them?

Obviously you've never been an expat. I am one, and the term is usually applied internationally to those people who are employed professionally in other countries. Which means they have a visa, pay taxes, and are bound by the legal requirements of their visa and the laws of the country they're in. There is no expectation that an expat or immigrant will be given citizenship unless they apply for it, and in many cases, it's extremely difficult to be accepted for that transition. However, in Ireland, you can break the visa rules, stay here illegally and be given full residency... just because.

You also are using expat in the original sense of the word, but since English is a living language, which changes over time, that definition is no longer accurate. The term expat is often used, but so too is immigrant. The difference is that expats typically are transient. They will work a contract, or a number of years in a country, and then, move on. There's little expectation for an expat to put down roots, whereas an immigrant has a more permanent connotation. Which is not to say that immigrants don''t behave the same as expats, but the majority of immigrants will be looking to stay somewhere long term.

The difference with western people compared to others is that typically they don't cut off the desire to return home at some point in the future. They come from developed nations, so their stay in other nations is seen as temporary. Whereas if you have someone coming from a third world country, the perception is that they won't want to give up the benefits of living in a first world nation, to return to a badly operated nation, which likely has a host of problems.

Not a good place to be & to be accepting of it after the whole 800 years thing is even more odd by Irish "Patriots", Republicans & Nationalists; categories which've become redundant due to Gemma/Dolores/National Party etc. use; when your lot idolise a British Soldier in a British Army involved in killing Irish people as an Irish Patriot then it's time to pull the plug on the charade.

Gibberish.

My relatives in UK & USA're foreigners & immigrants; they say so themselves; they identify & align themselves with the Windrush generation in UK, Jamaicans & Pakistanis there & Hispanic in US;

Well... the US is never a good example to promote the positives of immigration by people who hold on to their national/cultural identity. Their society is extremely fragmented and has a long history of violent conflict between cultural groups. We shouldn't be wanting to follow in their footsteps, and anyone who believes we should, is willfully ignoring the range of negatives that comes from their divisions.

it's the Far Right who use immigrants & foreigners to tar, well, lets be honest here, people in DP, Muslims & black people; the only caveat being if you're black & famous then you're okay but clearly not the rest of them; it doesn't work like that so catch yourselves on & have a day off.

It would be a lot of people who look to the behavior of Muslims, Africans, etc as an indication of what might happen here in Ireland. We can look to see what has happened in Europe and yes, there are generalisations made, with a degree of collective responsibility being applied. It's not just the "far right" who do this. I do it, and I'm not even remotely far right.

The gas thing about your post is that you seem to want to point to how things are internationally, but fail to recognise how nations/cultures behave/think internationally. Collective responsibility based on race, is commonplace throughout the world, especially in Asia, and Africa. Same with the M.East, where all white people will be judged as being collectively responsible for what Americans have done. You want to cherry-pick.

Yellow_Fern

Sand wrote: »

I don't agree with this absolutist position. Like most Irish people I have heard horror stories about the impact of similar laws upon relatives. In my case, a female relative of mine was forced to 'carry' a dead fetus to 9 months before doctors would agree to 'deliver' the body for fear of abortion laws. As the final cruelty, prior to the 'delivery' she was placed in a maternity ward so she could see happy mothers with their newborn children. So I find this policy the hardest to hold my nose over.

But if the alternative is mass migration turning all of Ireland into Rotherham, and no mainsteam Irish party will offer a policy rejecting mass migration then what other choice does a sane voter have?

I dont want to derail the thread but this definitely isn't true. I instead imagine it was a child who was expected to die shortly after birth. Far from dead.