Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

DeadHand

A cult of all dominant progressivism has taken such a hold of our political and media elite that policies that are objectively ruinous to the Irish nation are being implemented by extremists without any honest scrutiny, much less resistance from the mainstream.

The argument for holding your nose and voting for the likes of the National Party gathers appeal for me. I’m against said party on their obsolete position relating to abortion, and their proximity to Catholic doctrine on matters of personal morality makes them difficult to support. As does the unimpressive nature of their current representatives.

That said, a strong showing for them in the polls may put mass immigration on the agenda and into an honest, critical light for the first time in this country. It may start a much needed national conversation. It may push FGFF back to the centre. If you look at France, the growing popularity of the National Front as life in that country is increasingly made miserable by imported elements has forced Macron into a more sensical, robust position on immigration and Islamification.

FGFF lack any principles, it is both their strength and their weakness. If the Irish nation can show them it doesn’t want transformative mass immigration (and it doesn’t, there isn’t a native people in the world that truly does) they will revert to a sane, moderate position on the issue. The only way to achieve this may be to support right wing alternatives electorally, because voices opposed to the plantation agenda will not be heard otherwise in the current climate of triumphant progressivism.

DeadHand

And, better again, a strong electoral protest vote against plantation politics may encourage the formation of a more palatable and effective centre-right alternative for Ireland.

One is sorely needed.

KeepItLight

DeadHand wrote: »

And, better again, a strong electoral protest vote against plantation politics may encourage the formation of a more palatable and effective centre-right alternative for Ireland.

One is sorely needed.

This is a key point, because in the long term FG/FF would only offer token gestures to try and win back some lost support, but they would never go against the multicultural Ireland project in earnest, because they have no principals or sense of duty to actual Irish people - this is self-evident.

Beechwoodspark

EddieN75 wrote: »

We need a party who sticks firm with their policies no matter the political weather.
A party that will follow through on promises and commitments despite possible public backlash from some quarters or Eu pressure.
Voting for a party who change like the wind is not a successful recipe in my view.

Even if such a party was successful in elections

It’s highly unlikely they’d get in to power on their own

Instead they’d have to compromise (ie water down their plans and policies) and go into coalition with one of the existing big parties.

Hell, the bigger party might even actively undermine the smaller party as it would be seen as a threat long term

aziz

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

I dont want to derail the thread but this definitely isn't true. I instead imagine it was a child who was expected to die shortly after birth. Far from dead.

No, this is very true,

Jane98

If it's true then it probably happened about 50 years ago. Maternity services have progressed alot since then and I do not believe what you stated would happen now.

mgn

KeepItLight wrote: »

This is a key point, because in the long term FG/FF would only offer token gestures to try and win back some lost support, but they would never go against the multicultural Ireland project in earnest, because they have no principals or sense of duty to actual Irish people - this is self-evident.

The might soon change their tune if the think the are in danger of losing their seat
Don't forget politicians only concern is the next election and a time will come when people have enough.

See the likes of Ming who tapped into the the turf cutters supporters and got him elected, no one seen that coming, and look at the vote Peter Casey got in the presidential election after every media outlet in the country tried to destroy him,
There is a big vote out there if the right candidates come along.

aziz

Jane98 wrote: »

If it's true then it probably happened about 50 years ago. Maternity services have progressed alot since then and I do not believe what you stated would happen now.

Well 21 years ago my wife and I had a stillborn boy,she became involved in a support group for bereaved mothers and met another lady who at the same time lost a baby at 7 months,she had to carry the baby for another six weeks until she gave birth,
I don’t know the reason why she was forced to carry the child to term but I think religious beliefs had something to do with it.

I’ve met other fathers and stories that I was told, you wouldn’t think could happen but then again you wouldn’t like to believe what happened in the mother and baby homes either.

As stated my experiences are from 20 plus years ago and I would hope that things have moved on from them

Mad_maxx

Irish people are terrified of not appearing respectable, the media has decreed that opposition to multiculturalism is not respectable

We will not vote for anything like the parties mentioned above

mgn

mgn wrote: »

The first thing that should be done is, if you have no passport you don't get off the plane, simple.

You need one to get on so you need one to get off, let the airline take them back to where the boarded,

Why would you lose your passport if you have nothing to hide, it doesn't take inspector Morse to work that one out.

They cant apply for Asylum with the passport.

I'm not sure of the ins and out of that aspect but I believe you have to destroy your documents before you reach the host country.

Should just change that rule or else disembark planes in a more efficent manner to prevent it happening.

EddieN75

DeadHand wrote: »

And, better again, a strong electoral protest vote against plantation politics may encourage the formation of a more palatable and effective centre-right alternative for Ireland.

One is sorely needed.

Only one of 3 countries in Europe without a right wing nationalist party either sitting in opposition or government.

There is no alternative opinion in Ireland but there is vacancy for one. A reputable party could be very successful.

As an example it seems to me that many SF voters (working class) don't realise the party position on immigration and would vote for an alternative.

FG voters who don't like the position that the party is moving in could also be swayed to a new option

People who do not vote at all because there is no party who promote their view would welcome an alternative option.

There is a glaringly obvious "market" for a new option in Irish politics.

mgn

gilberto_eire wrote: »

They cant apply for Asylum with the passport.

I'm not sure of the ins and out of that aspect but I believe you have to destroy your documents before you reach the host country.

Should just change that rule or else disembark planes in a more efficent manner to prevent it happening.

The should change the rule but the wont, that would be a very simple way to ID those coming in within 5 minutes, but no, the would rather keep them in DP for 10 years so that the solicitors, barristers and DP centres owners gets richer every day, no expense spared when it comes to these chancers and frauds.
The whole system stinks from the top down.

Feadog999

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Even if such a party was successful in elections

It’s highly unlikely they’d get in to power on their own

Instead they’d have to compromise (ie water down their plans and policies) and go into coalition with one of the existing big parties.

Hell, the bigger party might even actively undermine the smaller party as it would be seen as a threat long term

The greens seem to be getting enough policies through despite having a miniscule ammount of first preference votes. Maybe they are watered down somewhat but most of their stuff appears somewhat controversial

ThunbergsAreGo

Feadog999 wrote: »

The greens seem to be getting enough policies through despite having a miniscule ammount of first preference votes. Maybe they are watered down somewhat but most of their stuff appears somewhat controversial

The greens are also massive media darlings, remember the "green wave" of 5 percent.....

The state of the Greens

ThunbergsAreGo

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

The greens are also massive media darlings, remember the "green wave" of 5 percent.....

The state of the Greens

They also manage to avoid the fallout that tends to cling to the other parties. Few people remember the involvement of the greens prior/during the banking crash.

Montage of Feck

To think I have given votes to SF in past, never again. The likes of Pa Daly have made a living sucking on the teat of public finances, their only aim is to grease the wheels of the gravy train.

KeepItLight

Montage of Feck wrote: »

To think I have given votes to SF in past, never again. The likes of Pa Daly have made a living sucking on the teat of public finances, their only aim is to grease the wheels of the gravy train.

I'm not really sure how Sinn Fein are actually Nationalist at all tbh, unless they mean civic nationalists which is kind of nonsensical position in the first place, since its not really rooted in anything and can change and be moulded to whatever the NGO's want it to be.

Cal4567

I don’t think there has been anything sinister going on here. It’s like most areas when it has come to State policy. Early 2000s - ‘Oh, we have a bit of a problem? We’ll we’ve got some money; we can just throw that at it’.

Before you know it, the guts of 2 decades have come and gone. It’s an issue but doesn’t affect those that matter, the property owning middle aged and olders who vote for FF & FG. It’s been given as much long term thought and attention social housing has had. Slowly and surely more and more cases come to light of poor conditions which if you do give something over to profiteers, they will just go for the lowest common denominator. A lot of head scratching. A probing liberal media. Kneejerk reactions such as trying to find hotels as far away from south county Dublin as possible.

Eventually, an independent focus recommends where we are now with a proposed drive to get the existing schemes out of private hands and to be owned and managed by an arm of the State, or an NGO with State funds.

The idea that new asylum seekers will only spend 12 weeks in such accommodation hasn’t has much media or even political criticism. You’d be called racist for starters – and not just on Twitter. The wider housing issues have engulfed it and looks like they will continue to do so. Politicians will tell you the major thing they keep having to deal with is people’s need for housing, not anything in relation to asylum seekers – unless it comes to a small town near you.

The fact O’Gorman has taken this role on is telling. It’s a Housing issue. He’s the children’s minister. Obviously, the existing FF Housing minister wasn’t going anywhere near this issue. What a surprise.

It will take Paddy to have a few more years of asylum seekers rolling into Dublin and Rosslare in greater numbers before this gets the notice it deserves.

I have to agree with the previous posters view re non white non European men and women. The Left together with a friendly media when it come to modern day liberal issues, have made it quite clear where their priorities are. No wonder the mainstream media are getting flak.

Feadog999

KeepItLight wrote: »

I'm not really sure how Sinn Fein are actually Nationalist at all tbh, unless they mean civic nationalists which is kind of nonsensical position in the first place, since its not really rooted in anything and can change and be moulded to whatever the NGO's want it to be.

They aren't really to be fair. They think they have a monopoly on republicanism which they don't either. Their base and members don't realise how far left they actually are.

SF, Lab, PBP, SD etc wrap themselves in the left banner when in reality they are enemies of the working class. All they want to do is take taxes from working people and divert them to their generous welfare and other programs that don't end up benefiting working people. I think all parties are like this but at least the others don't pretend to fight for the working person but their priorities are elsewhere.

Chips Lovell

OneEightSeven wrote: »

If the National Party start performing well in the polls, just watch as members of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail start making noise about immigration. Typically, there will be infighting in the party, the leader will step down and they'll elect a new one to win back voters from the right-wing nationalist party.

Most of these centre-right politicians just go with the flow and you're not going to change their mind by voting for them.

If this happens, and it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that it will, the only thing likely to change significantly is the rhetoric. That's because the narrative about asylum policy (and often broader immigration) is frequently misleading, often intentionally so.

The narrative is we have an open door asylum policy, where all sorts of are let in and given the Rolls Royce treatment. The reality is, at EU level, we're spending billions in North Africa, the Sahal, and Turkey to stem migrant flows, while closer to home, they're doing everything they can to prevent people claiming asylum on arrival. Our government no more wants asylum claims than any other and any aspirational improvement in asylum policy is simply there to quell criticism of people mouldering away in direct provision.

Anyone coming into power vowing to get tough on bogus asylum seekers will find that there isn't much more they can do that isn't being done already.

Dyr

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Anyone coming into power vowing to get tough on bogus asylum seekers will find that there isn't much more they can do that isn't being done already.

That so?

https://ec.europa.eu/migrant-integration/news/denmark-lowest-number-of-asylum-seekers-ever

Bish. Bash. Bosh.

EddieN75

Bambi wrote: »

That so?

https://ec.europa.eu/migrant-integration/news/denmark-lowest-number-of-asylum-seekers-ever

Bish. Bash. Bosh.

The Danes are kicking them out.

Ireland is planning to build/buy apartment blocks and houses ,give full social welfare rights and free education to refugees with no set limit on arrivals

As a kicker Ireland is also preparing to grant 17000 illegal immigrants the right to remain, work, welfare and a path to citizenship.

Do the Danes know something we don't?

Chips Lovell

Bambi wrote: »

That so?

https://ec.europa.eu/migrant-integration/news/denmark-lowest-number-of-asylum-seekers-ever

Yep:

Minister for Immigration and Integration Mattias Tesfaye commented: 'Part of the explanation is probably the coronavirus situation. But I think we can also thank our strict policy on foreigners for this.'

Meanwhile in Ireland:

The Covid-19 pandemic resulted in the numbers seeking asylum in Ireland falling by two thirds in 2020.

New figures released by State agency, the International Protection Office (IPO) show that the numbers to seek asylum here in 2020 totalled 1,566.

According to the IPO, this represents a 67.3 per cent reduction on the 4,781 to claim asylum here in 2019.

As I said, the only thing that really changes is the rhetoric.

Mike Murdock

EddieN75 wrote: »

Only one of 3 countries in Europe without a right wing nationalist party either sitting in opposition or government.

There is no alternative opinion in Ireland but there is vacancy for one. A reputable party could be very successful.

As an example it seems to me that many SF voters (working class) don't realise the party position on immigration and would vote for an alternative.

FG voters who don't like the position that the party is moving in could also be swayed to a new option

People who do not vote at all because there is no party who promote their view would welcome an alternative option.

There is a glaringly obvious "market" for a new option in Irish politics.

A true conservative party that steers clear of the religious fanaticism of the NP, and focuses on pragmatic policies that help Irish people would get votes.

Mike Murdock

Mike Murdock wrote: »

A true conservative party that steers clear of the religious fanaticism of the NP, and focuses on pragmatic policies that help Irish people would get votes.

Oh, and a party that didn't believe in the magical money tree would be nice too, and willing to tell the hard truths to the Irish people.

I'd vote for that.

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

That so?

https://ec.europa.eu/migrant-integration/news/denmark-lowest-number-of-asylum-seekers-ever

Bish. Bash. Bosh.

'' refugees are constantly afraid of loosing their permits''

So.... This might deter them from criminality? Great!
While here... Nothing will stop our government bringing them here arms open wide sun moon and stars waiting , and nothing not even a failed asylum application can get rid of them.

punisher5112

Do the young people not actually realize they won't be able to afford to buy a home for themselves as it's getting harder and harder....

Work colleague was renting rooms in his house for years to a vet and another in a big position job but not in it long enough to have money to afford to purchase a d wouldn't for quite some time, this is what future grads have ahead of them and I can see like with our recession jobs will be very few and far between....

I rented over 7 years, paid extortionate amounts to live in sheds.
This absolute vile and disgusting policy makes is 2nd class citizen in our own country.

Really shocked how woke Ireland has become and shame on rte especially for spouting their absolutely ridiculous agenda.

We are not a racist nation, we never were, we were the black sheep, we were thrown in the gutter, worked hard, died to the benefits of the British etc etc.....

We can not afford to let this happen. If we do then our children will have no future here.

Hamachi

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh, and a party that didn't believe in the magical money tree would be nice too, and willing to tell the hard truths to the Irish people.

I'd vote for that.

It’s not much to ask for, is it? A fiscally responsible party, who prioritizes the majority of the population, who are productive, hard working citizens.

In terms of inward migration, most people are totally fine with freedom of movement from within the EU. The only ask around extra-European migration is a points-based system that controls for a decent caliber of migrant, who is likely to find and retain employment, thereby avoiding becoming a burden on the state.

As for the humanitarian angle, accept several hundred truly needy cases annually and provide them with genuine support to begin a new life. However, be ruthless in rejecting and removing the overwhelming majority of shysters who have subverted our asylum system for the past two decades.

None of this is rocket science. Why oh why can we not have a political class, with a modicum of intelligence, who are capable of implementing such straightforward policies?

Damien360

Feadog999 wrote: »

They aren't really to be fair. They think they have a monopoly on republicanism which they don't either. Their base and members don't realise how far left they actually are.

SF, Lab, PBP, SD etc wrap themselves in the left banner when in reality they are enemies of the working class. All they want to do is take taxes from working people and divert them to their generous welfare and other programs that don't end up benefiting working people. I think all parties are like this but at least the others don't pretend to fight for the working person but their priorities are elsewhere.

This would all be fixed with a correct definition of working class. Those who have never worked a day i their lives believe themselves to be working class. Working class are the actual working poor. SF play on the role of working class party. In truth they fight for those who don’t want to work at the detriment of all those that work. When those that actually work finally see through that smokescreen, then SF will be found out.

Feadog999

So the number for McEntee's plan has went from 17,000 to "nearly" 20,000. Interesting. Also Migrants Right Council of Ireland (MRCI) and Justice for the Undocumented (JFU) has found that 93% of this cohort are working. Two things wrong with that, their research is likely biased because they are a lobby group. Children are supposed to be 3,000 of the total so how can 93% be working, it has to be lower.

Country is bolloxed.


https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/legal-recognition-to-be-grantedfor-nearly-20000-undocumented-in-ireland-40347991.html


For reference, in terms of scale, below is a list of previous amnesties pulled from Reddit

2018 - for an estimated 5,000 international students in Ireland from 2005 to 2010.

2015 - for an estimated 2,000 rejected asylum seekers in direct provision for over five years.

2012 for an estimated 3,000 international students in Ireland before 2005

2009 for an estimated 186 illegal immigrants whose status was no fault of their own (i.e. trafficked)

2005 - for an estimated 18,000 parents of children born in Ireland before 2005.

Plus the (apparently on ice) proposal to provide asylum seekers in DP over two years an amnesty est. 2,000.