Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

punisher5112

clytemnestra wrote: »

Why are they being integrated when most of them aren't even refugees? It's just a joke at this stage.

It's sickening. I know so many hardworking Irish people struggling to get decent housing and healthcare and a decent education for their kids while seeing their taxes go on schemes like this. It's actually treasonous.

Many play the system, they bring cases to court, then again and again until eventually they are given a stay in many cases.....

Really like how they do it in Australia.

Feadog999

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Move along folks nothing to see here, Roderick has said that there will be no competition despite also saying that they would be provided with State owned accomodation. Absolutely no more clarity on how this will not lead to competition with those already on the housing list.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/asylum-seekers-will-not-be-given-housing-that-could-go-to-those-on-waiting-lists-minister-1.4556454

"Under the new system, the Minister said, on arrival into Ireland people would spend up to four months in State-owned reception and integration centres. Families would have own-door accommodation and individuals would have their own room.

After, “they will be provided with State-owned accommodation in towns and cities across the country, while they await the outcome of their application. This will allow applicants live independently, it will foster inclusion and integration between applicants and their host communities,” he said.

“The accommodation will be delivered through a multi-strand approach, in conjunction with approved housing bodies and NGOs. Some of the housing will be built, some purchased... I met with the Housing Agency recently and we will be signing a memorandum with them in terms of accessing the housing stock.”

Asked about the possible perception that asylum seekers were being housed while families on housing lists waited longer, he said: “I’m very conscious that the measures we are taking to address the housing needs of those in the international protection system are taking place in the wider context of measures the Government is taking to address the wider housing crisis.

“We have a very substantial commitment in the programme for Government to provide an additional 50,000 social housing units.

“I am very conscious that we can’t allow certain groups that might want to portray this as some sport of promotion of one category of person seeking housing against another.

"[Provision of asylum applicants’ housing] will be done by separate departments, separate AHBs [approved housing bodies], separate NGOs… We will be very clear there is not any element of competition between the provision of housing through my department and provision of social and other housing through the Department of Housing.”"

This is absolutely bizarre and seems to me like damage control. Of course they will be competing, there's 19,000 households in the social housing waiting list for more than 7 years. 50,000 on it more than one year. So what O'Gorman is saying is that there is capacity in the system to deliver accommodation to at least 3,500 people within 4 months (white paper mentions they will increase the number if needs be) but rather than allocate that capacity to tackling the social housing waiting list they will be allocated to illegal immigrant housing.

Of course they will be competing. They will be competing for
• state land
• funding
• builders and other professionals
• things like the serviced Site Fund where there is a finite pot of money

Mike Murdock

Deleted User wrote: »

Move along folks nothing to see here, Roderick has said that there will be no competition despite also saying that they would be provided with State owned accomodation. Absolutely no more clarity on how this will not lead to competition with those already on the housing list.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/asylum-seekers-will-not-be-given-housing-that-could-go-to-those-on-waiting-lists-minister-1.4556454

"Under the new system, the Minister said, on arrival into Ireland people would spend up to four months in State-owned reception and integration centres. Families would have own-door accommodation and individuals would have their own room.

After, “they will be provided with State-owned accommodation in towns and cities across the country, while they await the outcome of their application. This will allow applicants live independently, it will foster inclusion and integration between applicants and their host communities,” he said.

“The accommodation will be delivered through a multi-strand approach, in conjunction with approved housing bodies and NGOs. Some of the housing will be built, some purchased... I met with the Housing Agency recently and we will be signing a memorandum with them in terms of accessing the housing stock.”

Asked about the possible perception that asylum seekers were being housed while families on housing lists waited longer, he said: “I’m very conscious that the measures we are taking to address the housing needs of those in the international protection system are taking place in the wider context of measures the Government is taking to address the wider housing crisis.

“We have a very substantial commitment in the programme for Government to provide an additional 50,000 social housing units.

“I am very conscious that we can’t allow certain groups that might want to portray this as some sport of promotion of one category of person seeking housing against another.

"[Provision of asylum applicants’ housing] will be done by separate departments, separate AHBs [approved housing bodies], separate NGOs… We will be very clear there is not any element of competition between the provision of housing through my department and provision of social and other housing through the Department of Housing.”"

Another AHB. Another Quango.

So in essence, more taxpayer money to be thrown away on his "Brotherhood of Man" fantasy.

What is the Minister for Children doing getting involved in this for anyway? He's exactly like his predecessor - cares more for Asylum Seekers and Blow-ins, than Irish children.

Maybe he should focus on his brief rather than spending an inordinate amount of time, and tax-payers money, on this costly, virtue signalling madness.

EddieN75

Mike Murdock wrote: »

Maybe he should focus on his brief rather than spending an inordinate amount of time, and tax-payers money, on this costly, virtue signalling madness.

Maybe he needs to be told this. But in Ireland there is no opposition.

Gunmonkey

Feadog999 wrote: »

This is absolutely bizarre and seems to me like damage control. Of course they will be competing, there's 19,000 households in the social housing waiting list for more than 7 years. 50,000 on it more than one year. So what O'Gorman is saying is that there is capacity in the system to deliver accommodation to at least 3,500 people within 4 months (white paper mentions they will increase the number if needs be) but rather than allocate that capacity to tackling the social housing waiting list they will be allocated to illegal immigrant housing.

Of course they will be competing. They will be competing for
• state land
• funding
• builders and other professionals
• things like the serviced Site Fund where there is a finite pot of money

This is why I cant comprehend O'Gormans logic. So this new quango wont be pulling houses from the social housing or whatever his non-descriptive waffle means...big whoop, they will be still pulling from the private housing stock which we STILL dont have enough of.

This will only cripple the build/rental prices for another generation: before it was this illusion of Facebook/Google workers on €100000+ salaries renting everything in sight, now it will be the Gov with an unlimited* blank chequebook needing to buy/rent as much as they can find as their own built facilities got overwhelmed fast.

*its not

Feadog999

Gunmonkey wrote: »

This is why I cant comprehend O'Gormans logic. So this new quango wont be pulling houses from the social housing or whatever his non-descriptive waffle means...big whoop, they will be still pulling from the private housing stock which we STILL dont have enough of.

This will only cripple the build/rental prices for another generation: before it was this illusion of Facebook/Google workers on €100000+ salaries renting everything in sight, now it will be the Gov with an unlimited* blank chequebook needing to buy/rent as much as they can find as their own built facilities got overwhelmed fast.

*its not

Totally agree. All political parties in Ireland hate the working class, that's clearly obvious since they have no intention of making it easier to live here. They see us a cash cows for tax revenues and that is it.

O'Gorman is to start meeting councils with regards his plan. Which seems to be totally against what he has said previously with his department delivering everything needed. Make no mistake this system will displace social and affordable housing in favour of migrants and will also cost Ireland a fortune

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0505/1213999-direct-provision/

Sadler Peak

EddieN75 wrote: »

Maybe he needs to be told this. But in Ireland there is no opposition.

That's it in a nutshell. It's extremely frustrating the lack of public debate on this topic.

Feadog999

Sadler Peak wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell. It's extremely frustrating the lack of public debate on this topic.

Dosent help that every news article around the topic genuinely reads like a press release from the department. The Irish times is very bad for it.

Salvation Tambourine

Feadog999 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0505/1213999-direct-provision/

So there is (understandable) outrage and upset over vulture/cuckoo investors buying homes and estates but absolutely everyone is in absolute agreement that we need to purchase and re purpose houses from local authorities to accommodate a group of people that have shown to be around 90% bogus applicants. Which of course won't affect the people already on social housing lists?

The whole thing is bizarre and we're expected to be satisfied with a response of "It won't" when questioning how this system will impact on social housing lists.

EddieN75

Feadog999 wrote: »

Dosent help that every news article around the topic genuinely reads like a press release from the department. The Irish times is very bad for it.

The Irish times is the worst for it. But you never know what is coming down the line.

An extreme example but an example of change nonetheless is one day Gaddafi was sitting in a palace the next day he was bloodied lying on the street with a Rambo style combat knife shoved up his arse.

Obviously not looking for this! But the point is we never know what's coming down the line. Saying that though nothing changes unless people make it happen.

Fandymo

EddieN75 wrote: »

The Irish times is the worst for it. But you never know what is coming down the line.

An extreme example but an example of change nonetheless is one day Gaddafi was sitting in a palace the next day he was bloodied lying on the street with a Rambo style combat knife shoved up his arse.

Obviously not looking for this! But the point is we never know what's coming down the line. Saying that though nothing changes unless people make it happen.

This is Ireland. The Govt could announce prima nocte coming in on Jan 1st 2022 and people would grumble, but accept it, if RTE said it was needed.

Chips Lovell

Mike Murdock wrote: »

Maybe he should focus on his brief rather than spending an inordinate amount of time, and tax-payers money, on this costly, virtue signalling madness.

It is his brief. Direct provision is part of his portfolio.

_Kaiser_

I've said it previously on this site but I predicted immigration and stuff like this would be a key election issue in the next few years.

If O'Gorman's fantasy goes through coupled with stories in the last day of investment funds buying up entire housing estates, you can bet it'll be raised or doorsteps the next time out.

TomTomTim

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I've said it previously on this site but I predicted immigration and stuff like this would be a key election issue in the next few years.

If O'Gorman's fantasy goes through coupled with stories in the last day of investment funds buying up entire housing estates, you can bet it'll be raised or doorsteps the next time out.

The problem is that the media don't join the dots for the people. We shouldn't need them to, but sadly we do. Mass immigration and housing crisis are never mentioned in the same sentence, or even the same article, even though they've a direct relationship. It's a relationship that should be completely obvious, but many seem to be oblivious to it. The new policy of course only makes the problem even worse, but if they didn't realize the connection already, why would they now?

Mike Murdock

Feadog999 wrote: »

This is absolutely bizarre and seems to me like damage control. Of course they will be competing, there's 19,000 households in the social housing waiting list for more than 7 years. 50,000 on it more than one year. So what O'Gorman is saying is that there is capacity in the system to deliver accommodation to at least 3,500 people within 4 months (white paper mentions they will increase the number if needs be) but rather than allocate that capacity to tackling the social housing waiting list they will be allocated to illegal immigrant housing.

Of course they will be competing. They will be competing for
• state land
• funding
• builders and other professionals
• things like the serviced Site Fund where there is a finite pot of money

Even if you email this to O'Gorman, you won't get a response. He's been tagged multiple times on Twitter asking him how we intend to pay for all this, and he won't reply.

It is now a fait accompli. Come hell or high water.

Varik

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I've said it previously on this site but I predicted immigration and stuff like this would be a key election issue in the next few years.

If O'Gorman's fantasy goes through coupled with stories in the last day of investment funds buying up entire housing estates, you can bet it'll be raised or doorsteps the next time out.

That whole thing about investment funds buying up estates is the largest most Irish BS that could happen.

The Government complaining about the funds buying up properties at the expense of first time buyers and yet it's the councils with their big state funded accounts who are doing it. There's no reason for the funds to be doing it if there wasn't a large contract at the end.

And then we've the councils who're in a large part controlled by SF complain about it too, ****ers are the ones distorting the market to cause this.

They bring up ballymun and the risk of ghettos and then buy up full estates.

derekgine3

We had thousands line the streets for water charges which is nothing compared to this.

There should be mass protests to stop this madness

EddieN75

From "journal.ie" this morning
( Comments turned off)

"Children’s Minister Roderic O’Gorman said: “Considerable work is being undertaken to support these residents to move out of accommodation centres and into secure accommodation in the community.”

“So far this year, 276 persons with status have moved into the community, of whom 248 received assistance from the support services outlined. Last year, 1,136 people moved into community housing from our accommodation centres,” O’Gorman added.

The minister is set to meet with city and county managers shortly to discuss the availability of services for international protection applicants"

_Kaiser_

EddieN75 wrote: »

From "journal.ie" this morning
( Comments turned off)

"Children’s Minister Roderic O’Gorman said: “Considerable work is being undertaken to support these residents to move out of accommodation centres and into secure accommodation in the community.”

“So far this year, 276 persons with status have moved into the community, of whom 248 received assistance from the support services outlined. Last year, 1,136 people moved into community housing from our accommodation centres,” O’Gorman added.

The minister is set to meet with city and county managers shortly to discuss the availability of services for international protection applicants"

Yep, it's all been done quietly under the radar and only mentioned on outlets that would be fully in favour of it (and as you say above, with no dissenting opinion allowed)

By the time most people realise what's going on, it'll be far too late.

suicide_circus

Feadog999 wrote: »

This is absolutely bizarre and seems to me like damage control. Of course they will be competing, there's 19,000 households in the social housing waiting list for more than 7 years. 50,000 on it more than one year. So what O'Gorman is saying is that there is capacity in the system to deliver accommodation to at least 3,500 people within 4 months (white paper mentions they will increase the number if needs be) but rather than allocate that capacity to tackling the social housing waiting list they will be allocated to illegal immigrant housing.

It's an indication of the utter contempt in which the man holds the electorate. It's painfully apparent that there will be competition and conflict over these scarce resources but the minister clearly believes the elextorate is too stupid to see the blindingly obvious.

Mike Murdock wrote: »

Another AHB. Another Quango.

Naturally. O'Gorman and his ilk live in a world of NGOs, Quangos, "charity" industry and special interest lobby groups all praying on the Irish psyche's advanced sense of guilt and shame, gorging themselves on vast sums of tax payer cash all while berating said tax payers for various "sins".

Feadog999

Another response from FF TD. Pathetic. You would think they have learned from the past week.


"I think the ending of Direct Provision (2024) and the strive to deliver significantly more housing need to be treated separately.



This week the government launched a new Affordable Housing Bill which will deal with cost rental, affordable housing, shared equity and local authority housing."

derekgine3

Feadog999 wrote: »

Another response from FF TD. Pathetic. You would think they have learned from the past week.


"I think the ending of Direct Provision (2024) and the strive to deliver significantly more housing need to be treated separately.



This week the government launched a new Affordable Housing Bill which will deal with cost rental, affordable housing, shared equity and local authority housing."

They are doomed at the next election, never forget this folks as they will try ramp up supply from now on to win votes. Too little too late, FFFG hate the Irish people

EddieN75

EddieN75 wrote: »

The minister is set to meet with city and county managers shortly to discuss the availability of services for international protection applicants"

He needs to get his story straight, one minute its this won't impact people on housing lists and then the next hes out sourcing council housing for them. I hope the city and council managers tell him where to go. Hes promised something impossible to people that others will now have to figure out how to accomplish.

Genuinely where is this housing coming from? By 2024 all current (and incoming) DP residents will have to be moved out and then a rolling door of thousands a year to find housing for. The 50k social houses that O'Gorman talked about the government creating in their term will have an awful chunk taken out of it without housing anyone on a growing housing list.

More quangos, more AHB's no actual housing delivered for people who need it and no more speed or impartiality put into the asylum process.

If O'Gorman had any guile he would be at least be pretending to make some attempt to reform the process and speed it up.

Salvation Tambourine

I've the figure of 90% bogus applications in my mind from reading this thread. Where is that confirmed?

It will be interesting to see how that figure changes over time with this new plan.

_Kaiser_

derekgine3 wrote: »

They are doomed at the next election, never forget this folks as they will try ramp up supply from now on to win votes. Too little too late, FFFG hate the Irish people

The problem is that they will come through it as they always do because we don't have a viable alternative to the main political parties, and the big two have the game rigged to prevent it, between the cost of entry and their friends (and often future employees) in the news media.

It's all very well for us to talk about it here and agree that this plan is pure madness and nothing more than yet another example of pandering to social media crusading (which almost never reflects the views of the ordinary citizen - not surprising really as most of the agenda comes from the USA), but anyone with any sort of public profile who speaks out will be rapidly denounced by the aforementioned news media as someone who is to be dismissed as a racist xenophobic "toxic" neanderthal.

The only time the ordinary citizens get a say is at general election time (we can see earlier in the thread the dismissive or selective responses to emails from TDs), and because of my very first point, there's no real accountability anyway.

Because of the fragmented political situation in the last few years (also stoked by divisive social media politicking) , even if FF and FG swap roles, they'll both still be in Government anyway so even that option is gone now. "Confidence and supply" was a masterstroke by the FF/FG negotiators as it's basically guaranteed them both permanent governance (as we've seen this round), because the alternative is SF or whatever flavour of socialism you like.

About the only thing that might make an impression is mass protests and public anger like we saw against Irish Water or in the aftermath of the Veronica Guerin murder in the 90s, but as we've seen even in the last year, the Government and their media hangers-on have become very effective at demonising and marginalising any voices or protests they don't agree with.

This country is in a very dark place democratically, and it is only getting worse.

zell12

Nokotan wrote: »

I've the figure of 90% bogus applications in my mind from reading this thread. Where is that confirmed?
It will be interesting to see how that figure changes over time with this new plan.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=116494106

Jinglejangle69

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The problem is that they will come through it as they always do because we don't have a viable alternative to the main political parties, and the big two have the game rigged to prevent it, between the cost of entry and their friends (and often future employees) in the news media.

It's all very well for us to talk about it here and agree that this plan is pure madness and nothing more than yet another example of pandering to social media crusading (which almost never reflects the views of the ordinary citizen - not surprising really as most of the agenda comes from the USA), but anyone with any sort of public profile who speaks out will be rapidly denounced by the aforementioned news media as someone who is to be dismissed as a racist xenophobic "toxic" neanderthal.

The only time the ordinary citizens get a say is at general election time (we can see earlier in the thread the dismissive or selective responses to emails from TDs), and because of my very first point, there's no real accountability anyway.

Because of the fragmented political situation in the last few years (also stoked by divisive social media politicking) , even if FF and FG swap roles, they'll both still be in Government anyway so even that option is gone now. "Confidence and supply" was a masterstroke by the FF/FG negotiators as it's basically guaranteed them both permanent governance (as we've seen this round), because the alternative is SF or whatever flavour of socialism you like.

About the only thing that might make an impression is mass protests and public anger like we saw against Irish Water or in the aftermath of the Veronica Guerin murder in the 90s, but as we've seen even in the last year, the Government and their media hangers-on have become very effective at demonising and marginalising any voices or protests they don't agree with.

This country is in a very dark place democratically, and it is only getting worse.

But I see no party out there that would put a stop to this in power.

Be it FF, FG, SF, Labour etc.

So FFG getting voted out won't stop this madness.

iebamm2580

Looks like it will be in the EU who will put the brakes on this in the next decade. Irish government will have a few more years of being woke progressives before the eu puts the foot down as right wing parties gain more and more traction on the continent. Le pen in france is getting closer to macron all the time.

iebamm2580

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Looks like it will be in the EU who will put the brakes on this in the next decade. Irish government will have a few more years of being woke progressives before the eu puts the foot down as right wing parties gain more and more traction on the continent. Le pen in france is getting closer to macron all the time.

The drawbacks of immigration, and the failure of integration/assimilation are becoming well known at this point. It's not simply the right wing parties, but the middle are starting to realise the downsides of multiculturalism, along with the unhappiness of the general population who are paying the costs.

The EU is shifting it's attitude towards immigration because it's no longer to hide the downsides under media articles and political platitudes. It won't be long before the center and parts of the left fall into line on the topic.

iebamm2580

Deleted User wrote: »

The drawbacks of immigration, and the failure of integration/assimilation are becoming well known at this point. It's not simply the right wing parties, but the middle are starting to realise the downsides of multiculturalism, along with the unhappiness of the general population who are paying the costs.

The EU is shifting it's attitude towards immigration because it's no longer to hide the downsides under media articles and political platitudes. It won't be long before the center and parts of the left fall into line on the topic.

Yes this is why i have hope that Ireland wont be totally screwed over as the eu will take over the reigns in the near future and the idiot virtue signaling irish politicians wont have any choice but to fall in line. If honest questions were asked in polls and not some heart string pulling questions about abandoned kids etc and people fleeing bogus persecution, it would be very clear to all how most people feel about immigration. We all want skilled labor to come here and add to society but the vast majority of hardworking normal irish folk do not want economic migrants to add to our homegrown dole lifers. An indian lad i work with cant understand why migrants are giving houses when he is here working and paying rent. He is the type of migrant we want.