Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

Feadog999

I received an incredibly poor response from Mary Butler (Fianna Fail). The survey they are referencing studied 1,000 people which is about 5% of those that will be regularised.


Thank you for your email.

As you know, Ireland is to grant legal recognition, right to remain and a path to citizenship for nearly 17,000 ‘undocumented’ from abroad who are resident here. I understand that almost all are already in employment, serving the State and economy.

There is a firm commitment in the programme for Government to set out a such a scheme as has been described for undocumented people within 18 months of its formation.

Upon announcing these new proposals Justice Minister Helen McEntee stated, “I firmly believe that we in Ireland must show the same generosity towards undocumented migrants living in our country as we ask other countries, particularly the United States, to show Irish people,”

“There are thousands of people across the country who have created a life here but unfortunately still live in the legal shadows.

“They are active members of our communities: contributing to our society, enriching our culture and working in our economy.”

Draft proposals, that will grant formal status to the undocumented, are expected to be in place by the end of the year.

The newly-recognised will:

Have a period of 4 years residence in the State without an immigration permission, or three years in the case of those with children;
Be granted an immigration permission that allows for unrestricted access to the labour market; and:
Have years of residence with that permission reckonable for the purposes of pursuing Irish citizenship by way of naturalisation.
The key planks of the scheme fully meet the requests of many campaigners — and will also in time guard against the exploitation of these workers.

According to a recent article from the Irish Independent, ‘recent research from Migrants Right Council of Ireland (MRCI) and Justice for the Undocumented (JFU) shows that over three-quarters of undocumented migrants surveyed have been living in Ireland for five years or more. The same detailed survey and analysis reveals that 93 per cent are in employment. Yet more than a quarter of these workers are receiving less than the minimum wage for their work and almost half are working beyond 40 hour weeks.’

By creating a broad and accessible pathway to status the Government seeks to enable the 17,000 people to work and earn here legitimately.

The Government has committed to end Direct Provision and replace it with a new system that would be run on a not-for-profit basis and centred on human rights. The new system will be grounded in the principles of human rights, respect for diversity and respect for privacy and family. It is being designed to offer greater support and greater autonomy to International Protection applicants. It will operate on a not-for-profit basis. Under the new system, when people arrive in Ireland seeking International Protection, at Phase One they will stay in one of a number of new Reception and Integration Centres for no more than four months. These centres will be newly built to a high specification and will be operated by not-for-profit organisations on behalf of the State.



During this orientation period, people will receive integration supports to help them adjust to living in Ireland. This will include English language tuition and employment activation supports. After their first four months in Ireland, people whose protection claims are still being processed will move to accommodation in the community. This will be own-door or own-room accommodation, for which they will pay a means-tested rent. Applicants will be entitled to seek paid work after six months, and they will be encouraged and supported to do so.

Therefore, while I acknowledge a number of the points you have raised in respect of the level of social/Government intervention required with such processes, the reduction of the opportunity for exploitation and the ability to earn a higher income, through the facilitation measures which have been proposed, this cohort of people can progress to a position by which they will not have as heavy a reliance on State services as the present arrangements can often give rise to.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact us to express your views.

Best regards,

Fandymo

Feadog999 wrote: »

I received an incredibly poor response from Mary Butler (Fianna Fail). The survey they are referencing studied 1,000 people which is about 5% of those that will be regularised.


Thank you for your email.

As you know, Ireland is to grant legal recognition, right to remain and a path to citizenship for nearly 17,000 ‘undocumented’ from abroad who are resident here. I understand that almost all are already in employment, serving the State and economy.

There is a firm commitment in the programme for Government to set out a such a scheme as has been described for undocumented people within 18 months of its formation.

Upon announcing these new proposals Justice Minister Helen McEntee stated, “I firmly believe that we in Ireland must show the same generosity towards undocumented migrants living in our country as we ask other countries, particularly the United States, to show Irish people,”

“There are thousands of people across the country who have created a life here but unfortunately still live in the legal shadows.

“They are active members of our communities: contributing to our society, enriching our culture and working in our economy.”

Draft proposals, that will grant formal status to the undocumented, are expected to be in place by the end of the year.

The newly-recognised will:

Have a period of 4 years residence in the State without an immigration permission, or three years in the case of those with children;
Be granted an immigration permission that allows for unrestricted access to the labour market; and:
Have years of residence with that permission reckonable for the purposes of pursuing Irish citizenship by way of naturalisation.
The key planks of the scheme fully meet the requests of many campaigners — and will also in time guard against the exploitation of these workers.

According to a recent article from the Irish Independent, ‘recent research from Migrants Right Council of Ireland (MRCI) and Justice for the Undocumented (JFU) shows that over three-quarters of undocumented migrants surveyed have been living in Ireland for five years or more. The same detailed survey and analysis reveals that 93 per cent are in employment. Yet more than a quarter of these workers are receiving less than the minimum wage for their work and almost half are working beyond 40 hour weeks.’

By creating a broad and accessible pathway to status the Government seeks to enable the 17,000 people to work and earn here legitimately.

The Government has committed to end Direct Provision and replace it with a new system that would be run on a not-for-profit basis and centred on human rights. The new system will be grounded in the principles of human rights, respect for diversity and respect for privacy and family. It is being designed to offer greater support and greater autonomy to International Protection applicants. It will operate on a not-for-profit basis. Under the new system, when people arrive in Ireland seeking International Protection, at Phase One they will stay in one of a number of new Reception and Integration Centres for no more than four months. These centres will be newly built to a high specification and will be operated by not-for-profit organisations on behalf of the State.



During this orientation period, people will receive integration supports to help them adjust to living in Ireland. This will include English language tuition and employment activation supports. After their first four months in Ireland, people whose protection claims are still being processed will move to accommodation in the community. This will be own-door or own-room accommodation, for which they will pay a means-tested rent. Applicants will be entitled to seek paid work after six months, and they will be encouraged and supported to do so.

Therefore, while I acknowledge a number of the points you have raised in respect of the level of social/Government intervention required with such processes, the reduction of the opportunity for exploitation and the ability to earn a higher income, through the facilitation measures which have been proposed, this cohort of people can progress to a position by which they will not have as heavy a reliance on State services as the present arrangements can often give rise to.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact us to express your views.

Best regards,

Mail her back and ask her if she would lobby on your behalf if you had been working for 5 years without paying any tax whatsoever? Would she lobby on behalf of your employer who paid you cash in hand? If not, why is she doing it for foreign workers.

clytemnestra

Allowing asylum seekers to work is fkng insane. Why not speed up their mostly bogus claims and deport? This is what ordinary people want. I have never seen a government so wildly at odds with its electorate. Or with other EU countries who having learned from earlier mistakes, are moving in the exact opposite direction.

Geuze

clytemnestra wrote: »

Allowing asylum seekers to work is fkng insane. Why not speed up their mostly bogus claims and deport? This is what ordinary people want.

Yes.

Are there any politicians working to shorten the process?

I am always calling for claims to be dealt with in 7 days max at the port of entry.

jay0109

Feadog999 wrote: »

I received an incredibly poor response from Mary Butler (Fianna Fail). The survey they are referencing studied 1,000 people which is about 5% of those that will be regularised.


Thank you for your email.

As you know, Ireland is to grant legal recognition, right to remain and a path to citizenship for nearly 17,000 ‘undocumented’ from abroad who are resident here. I understand that almost all are already in employment, serving the State and economy.

Does she genuinely believe that herself or is she trying to play you for a fool! What an absolute class A piece of BS

derekgine3

Who we voting for in the next election to raise the public's concern with this lunacy?

From what i see, the only options are Aontu, Irish Freedom party and the National party.

Nokia6230i

derekgine3 wrote: »

Who we voting for in the next election to raise the public's concern with this lunacy?

From what i see, the only options are Aontu, Irish Freedom party and the National party.

It's okay saying that but they ran (NP ran none I think?) very few candidates in very few constituencies last time out and a year & a bit on they need to be building ahead of 2024 or earlier; they can't say they haven't had prep time.

Where I live we'd have maybe 10-12, 15 - 25 in the cross-border constituency who I'd call Far Right; but yet there's a "Nationwide" Monday gatherings & from my observations only 2 showed up 1st Week & 1 the next.

Turning the online into off line is key.

I'll be honest; I wouldn't vote for Irexit or NP in a fit; not if they were the only options on the ballot paper.

A number of the anti Irish Water protesters went to the right when that movement disbanded.

It's a case of having sufficient candidates, with legitimate standing in their community in some fashion, actual credibiltiy & an actual chance, sufficient quantity of voters at local level to begin with, national beyond that.

Where I live we've a hard-left Cllr.; they were 3-4, maybe 5 years doing the hard slog with many single & low double figure attendances at meetings & they only got in on last count in an absolute dog-fight, if a predictable & slow one, with a former FG Cllr.

But none of those I'd regard as Far Right're doing anything on the ground; all too easy to go to Dublin (2 do it regularly & go round the country; both're flat out of credibility) but the rest of them just sit at their laptops.

The Muslims hate Gays line needs to go; it's b/s & is a get out clause for many of those, who're Christian, who'd be against LGBT Rights/Education/Awareness from Primary or National School up.

The Muslims - Refugees or Muslims - Asylum Seekers line needs to go too; wrong on so many occasions.

What doesn't need to go is pointing out the asylum seeker cases who're extracting the urine; there's too many prominent ones incl. the SA guy mentioned here who need to have their stories scrutinised; the Immigration Council Erritrean taxi-driver; that story's been buried since it appeared in Sunday Times; the Soc Dems. candidate (don't think she got Cllr.) who seemed to be playing Ireland off with UK in asylum terms; the Nadine Coyle of Asylum Seekers was my opinion.

Length of time; things need to be made pre-emptory against Ireland but also against applicant.
Endless appeals are b/s; they take forever & end up with applicant putting down roots before case goes, on taxpayers dime, to ECHR potentially which can take 2-5 years maybe? Madness.

Deportations need to happen more prominently; I know we already detain people at the airport & refuse permission to lose but there's a case of a student where I live; the college in question went all out to bat for him in 2019 & early 2020; he was due to present for deportation in April 2020; then this was delayed due to Covid til June 2020.

Has he been? Nobody is allowed ask due to.....GDPR it seems!?

College in question were asked by an online only publication but never replied.
DOJ were asked too; deferr'd to the college/Dept. of Ed.

So on one hand they, his college, hawked him round local, regional & beyond media to put pressure on Charlie Flanagan; they even bussed up 52 to a DOJ protest.

But inquire as to his status and.....his GDPR becomes important all of a sudden?

Deportations. If we're gonna end DP (I'm in two minds & currently leading to wanting it to remain in some capacity) then deportations need to happen.....and be enforced; not give the Hard Left an oppo to gather/protest; if someone's over-stayed their welcome & exhausted the innumerable, countless appeals, then tough; we, the taxpayer, we, the State, have given you more than enough chances & time.

It's situations like our DP system being abused by some applicants & their tax-payer funded legal teams & endless appeals only to be allowed remain under the numberous refugee options (Protection, Right to Remain, Humanitarian Grounds etc. etc.) & the above case, as an example, that irk me.

Then the stone-walling when you send polite requests in same vein as some of you've already done to TDs; those who received an actual reply (and not just a "Duly noted" token reply, holding response) are an exception it seems.

Feadog999

Feadog999 wrote: »

I received an incredibly poor response from Mary Butler (Fianna Fail). The survey they are referencing studied 1,000 people which is about 5% of those that will be regularised.


Thank you for your email.

As you know, Ireland is to grant legal recognition, right to remain and a path to citizenship for nearly 17,000 ‘undocumented’ from abroad who are resident here. I understand that almost all are already in employment, serving the State and economy.

There is a firm commitment in the programme for Government to set out a such a scheme as has been described for undocumented people within 18 months of its formation.

Upon announcing these new proposals Justice Minister Helen McEntee stated, “I firmly believe that we in Ireland must show the same generosity towards undocumented migrants living in our country as we ask other countries, particularly the United States, to show Irish people,”

“There are thousands of people across the country who have created a life here but unfortunately still live in the legal shadows.

“They are active members of our communities: contributing to our society, enriching our culture and working in our economy.”

Draft proposals, that will grant formal status to the undocumented, are expected to be in place by the end of the year.

The newly-recognised will:

Have a period of 4 years residence in the State without an immigration permission, or three years in the case of those with children;
Be granted an immigration permission that allows for unrestricted access to the labour market; and:
Have years of residence with that permission reckonable for the purposes of pursuing Irish citizenship by way of naturalisation.
The key planks of the scheme fully meet the requests of many campaigners — and will also in time guard against the exploitation of these workers.

According to a recent article from the Irish Independent, ‘recent research from Migrants Right Council of Ireland (MRCI) and Justice for the Undocumented (JFU) shows that over three-quarters of undocumented migrants surveyed have been living in Ireland for five years or more. The same detailed survey and analysis reveals that 93 per cent are in employment. Yet more than a quarter of these workers are receiving less than the minimum wage for their work and almost half are working beyond 40 hour weeks.’

By creating a broad and accessible pathway to status the Government seeks to enable the 17,000 people to work and earn here legitimately.

The Government has committed to end Direct Provision and replace it with a new system that would be run on a not-for-profit basis and centred on human rights. The new system will be grounded in the principles of human rights, respect for diversity and respect for privacy and family. It is being designed to offer greater support and greater autonomy to International Protection applicants. It will operate on a not-for-profit basis. Under the new system, when people arrive in Ireland seeking International Protection, at Phase One they will stay in one of a number of new Reception and Integration Centres for no more than four months. These centres will be newly built to a high specification and will be operated by not-for-profit organisations on behalf of the State.



During this orientation period, people will receive integration supports to help them adjust to living in Ireland. This will include English language tuition and employment activation supports. After their first four months in Ireland, people whose protection claims are still being processed will move to accommodation in the community. This will be own-door or own-room accommodation, for which they will pay a means-tested rent. Applicants will be entitled to seek paid work after six months, and they will be encouraged and supported to do so.

Therefore, while I acknowledge a number of the points you have raised in respect of the level of social/Government intervention required with such processes, the reduction of the opportunity for exploitation and the ability to earn a higher income, through the facilitation measures which have been proposed, this cohort of people can progress to a position by which they will not have as heavy a reliance on State services as the present arrangements can often give rise to.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact us to express your views.

Best regards,

All about the rights of people breaking our laws and indirectly sticking two fingers up to all the Irish and legal immigrants who follow our laws. And she's mixed it in with flowery language about human rights, diversity etc...

Nothing about prosecuting those who blatantly break our laws or going after the thousands of businesses who evade tax by hiring all these people illegally. Sickening.

Galwayguy35

Hadn't realised the amount of illegals was that high, 17000 people decided the legal route wasn't worth the hassle so they made up their own rules and now they will be rewarded by getting citizenship.

It would be more in McEntee's line to set up an enforcement agency like ICE to root the lot of them out and send them back to their own countries.

The lads over in Africa, Asia and the Middle East must be rubbing their hands with glee.

Galwayguy35

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Hadn't realised the amount of illegals was that high, 17000 people decided the legal route wasn't worth the hassle so they made up their own rules and now they will be rewarded by getting citizenship.

It would be more in McEntee's line to set up and enforcement agency like ICE to root the lot of them out and send them back to their own countries.

The lads over in Africa, Asia and the Middle East must be rubbing their hands with glee.

The number is way higher than 17,000. The UK estimate theirs at 600,000+, around 1% of their population.
I know people who've gone through the legal path to Irish citizenship, it's a kick in the teeth to them as well.

jay0109

The NGO's and Govt use the 17,000 figur so as to underplay the problem. Its multiples of that IMO.
And of course family reunification will follow for any who get regularised. So multiply by a factor of 7 if I recall correctly from an old news report on the average number of people that follow through that route.

Selenophile

This is all really strange to me.

It turns out it is better and easier if you come as asylum seeker than if you come on the Critical Skills Employment Permit (CSEP). Especially for people with families.
Rent and mortgage are different topic, but they make Ireland less attractive for those with critical skills. Yet, asylum seekers will have accommodation provided one way or another.
And who can say that breaking a law doesn't pay off ? The lesson given not only to these "undocumented" people, but to their children as well is exactly this - that if they break the rules, if they don't respect the law, and if there is enough of them doing the same - at the end everything will be just fine.

I know, being a foreigner, that if I don't like it I am free to leave any time, that it is none of my business. But it all just doesn't make much sense to me.

Selenophile

Selenophile wrote: »

This is all really strange to me.

It turns out it is better and easier if you come as asylum seeker than if you come on the Critical Skills Employment Permit (CSEP). Especially for people with families.
Rent and mortgage are different topic, but they make Ireland less attractive for those with critical skills. Yet, asylum seekers will have accommodation provided one way or another.
And who can say that breaking a law doesn't pay off ? The lesson given not only to these "undocumented" people, but to their children as well is exactly this - that if they break the rules, if they don't respect the law, and if there is enough of them doing the same - at the end everything will be just fine.

I know, being a foreigner, that if I don't like it I am free to leave any time, that it is none of my business. But it all just doesn't make much sense to me.

It's about money, power and virtue signaling. The politicians are building a brand image and this fits in nicely with the image they are trying to portray. The "activists" along with the media love them for it. They probably feel like saviours to the worlds poor and down trodden.

Meanwhile the Irish and all those who come here legally are left perplexed wondering what is going on.

Selenophile

Deleted User wrote: »

They probably feel like saviours to the worlds poor and down trodden.

Many act like this throughout the World. Nice image building. It is one thing to, as an example, you raise taxes for high income earners and throw money to poor people. However, in this particular instance, breaking the law will be rewarded.
I don't know if people are aware how dangerous it is when you have a showcase that those that respect the law are suckers and those that take their chances by breaking the law are smart. I know at least one country that went down that route and that didn't turn out well.

Selenophile

Selenophile wrote: »

Many act like this throughout the World. Nice image building. It is one thing to, as an example, you raise taxes for high income earners and throw money to poor people. However, in this particular instance, breaking the law will be rewarded.
I don't know if people are aware how dangerous it is when you have a showcase that those that respect the law are suckers and those that take their chances by breaking the law are smart. I know at least one country that went down that route and that didn't turn out well.

Yes, it's an awful precedent to set. It will result in tens of thousands more arriving illegally here over the next few years. We see this time and time again, look at America in the 80's.

I've a vague memory of Spain trying to give an amnesty years ago to hundreds of thousands and Germany called them out on it because they knew it would just encourage more illegal immigration.

Times have changed though....

Galwayguy35

We must be the only country in thew world where a Justice Minister comes out with leftie PC crap like this, "they are active members of our communities, contributing to our society, enriching our culture and working in our economy".

It would be interesting to know how she thinks lawbreakers are enriching our culture and how doing work for cash in hand helps the economy.

This is a meme but it really feels like it is as close to the truth as you can get on how these people view themselves

vriesmays

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

We must be the only country in thew world where a Justice Minister comes out with leftie PC crap like this, "they are active members of our communities, contributing to our society, enriching our culture and working in our economy".

It would be interesting to know how she thinks lawbreakers are enriching our culture and how doing work for cash in hand helps the economy.

Ireland's culture is so low brow that it probably will get enriched by chancers from the 3rd world. We're the dumbest, lowest intellectual country in Western Europe.

TomTomTim

vriesmays wrote: »

Ireland's culture is so low brow that it probably will get enriched by chancers from the 3rd world. We're the dumbest, lowest intellectual country in Western Europe.

I don't want to turn into a self-hating Irish man, but I can't disagree with your statement. We've one of the lowest IQs in Europe on paper, and there's little that I see in our society that persuades me otherwise. We never punish our inept political parties, we constantly reward stupidity, and not one person in power seems to see where their idiotic policies will bring the country. The Irish elite are motivated by one thing and one thing alone; being loved on the global stage. They'll ruin our whole nation just to gets some pats on the back for being a good little progressive country.

vriesmays

vriesmays wrote: »

Ireland's culture is so low brow that it probably will get enriched by chancers from the 3rd world. We're the dumbest, lowest intellectual country in Western Europe.

No, we're not.

CollyFlower

Always looking to be best in the class!

Mike Murdock

TomTomTim wrote: »

I don't want to turn into a self-hating Irish man, but I can't disagree with your statement. We've one of the lowest IQs in Europe on paper, and there's little that I see in our society that persuades me otherwise. We never punish our inept political parties, we constantly reward stupidity, and not one person in power seems to see where their idiotic policies will bring the country. The Irish elite are motivated by one thing and one thing alone; being loved on the global stage. They'll ruin our whole nation just to gets some pats on the back for being a good little progressive country.

We're a nation stuck in emotional arrested development. More concerned with getting tanked up at every conceivable opportunity from the age of 14 onwards, destroying braincells and pissing money away for the "craic".

Our education system in secondary school would make Thomas Gradgrind blush. Regurgitation of facts with little in the way of meaningful interpretation or analysis.

Until you address those issues, it'll be more of the same.

Necro

Posts deleted as they have nothing to do with the thread topic

Feadog999

Necro wrote: »

Posts deleted as they have nothing to do with the thread topic

<snip>

Mod note: Do not discuss mod instructions in-thread. Discuss with mod via PM.

Geuze

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

We must be the only country in thew world where a Justice Minister comes out with leftie PC crap like this, "they are active members of our communities, contributing to our society, enriching our culture and working in our economy".

It would be interesting to know how she thinks lawbreakers are enriching our culture and how doing work for cash in hand helps the economy.

Given that the vast majority of AS are bogus, therefore they are illegal immigrants, therefore they are criminals, why would we want to encourage and reward them?

punisher5112

Geuze wrote: »

Given that the vast majority of AS are bogus, therefore they are illegal immigrants, therefore they are criminals, why would we want to encourage and reward them?

Seems to be the done thing....

Biggest excuse seems to be look at all the illegal Irish in the USA..... Bull crap argument anyway right there.....

It's going to absolutely cripple us with costs to house, health etc.

Chips Lovell

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

We must be the only country in thew world where a Justice Minister comes out with leftie PC crap like this, "they are active members of our communities, contributing to our society, enriching our culture and working in our economy".

Undocumented migrants aren't the same thing as bogus or failed asylum seekers. I haven't seen any mention that the Filipino care workers interviewed recently had claimed asylum at any point.

Hamachi

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Undocumented migrants aren't the same thing as bogus or failed asylum seekers. I haven't seen any mention that the Filipino care workers interviewed recently had claimed asylum at any point.

True, but in a functional immigration system, the outcome for both groups should be identical. Removal from Ireland. There should be zero tolerance for flouting our laws around migration.

I think the lack of honest conversation around the whole thing is what gets to me most.

A few years back it was announced Ethiopian Airlines were going to be stopping in Dublin on the way to LA. Someone mentioned asylum seekers and well, we can't be having that kind of Xenophobia! First flight lands and 7 people claim asylum.
"It's only 7" then becomes the argument.:rolleyes:
Closest I've seen to a proper apology from a mod later though.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057422180

Chips Lovell

Hamachi wrote: »

True, but in a functional immigration system, the outcome for both groups should be identical. Removal from Ireland. There should be zero tolerance for flouting our laws around migration.

Most countries periodically regularise undocumented migrants. I suppose you could counter that by arguing that no country has a functional immigration system, but you'd probably be in a minority there. There is some logic to regularising the situation of someone who's found gainful employment and wants to contribute to society as opposed to deporting them only for them to be replaced by another undocumented migrant.

Anyway, this has very little to do with Direct Provision.