Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

KeithTS

gilberto_eire wrote: »

You're seriously deluded if you think the people arriving into the airport are coming from areas that were bombed.

For starters they've, in 99% of cases, boarded a commercial flight from Europe so they had;

1. Money to book
2. The passport to board

They get rid of their passport before they present in Dublin as it's one of the things you need to do to apply.

99% of our asylum seekers are bogus as they have passed through one or many more safe countries to arrive on our shores.
This alone is supposed to be grounds for rejection yet we're just letting them all stay multiple years despite that.

1 - In no way am I deluded. Perhaps you would do your case more justice if you could have a conversation about it without resulting to name calling or insulting somebody in the first three words of your response.

2 - I have gotten to ferry from Dublin to Holyhead about 8 times a year for many years, ID was requested once. So it's very easy to imagine people can get into the county without checks easily enough.

3 - Technically yes, asylum seekers are supposed to claim in the first safe nation they land in. However, the Dublin convention is not workable in practice and in effect burdens a small few countries with most of the legitimate cases so it's no wonder it's not encouraged. Is it OK to you that some countries fare better because of geography?
It's not for me, I would much rather disperse the asylum seekers in such a way that they as people would prefer and so that no one nation has to deal with the problem alone. Using that technicality as grounds to say 99% of asylum seekers are bogus has very little footing in reality..

4 - I agree, there are people who take advantage of the system and dispose of documentation on arrival. However, proper checks still must be carried out on all arrivals claiming asylum. Not only is it a legal requirement, we also cant just assume (as you do) that all asylum seekers are "bogus" because some happen to be so. Just like we can't say all 50 year old white men are bank robbers because a 50 year old white man robbed a bank once.

This is an extremely complicated scenario with a huge amount of different aspects to consider, reducing it to "99% of asylum seekers are bogus" isn't how decision making and policies work. Sometimes we have to accept the lesser of two evils, personally, I would gladly embrace all of the "bogus" applications and welcome them into our country if it meant that the other "legitimate" cases were accepted.

MrMusician18

KeithTS wrote: »

This sounds great for everyone, I wonder why nobody thought about it?
Have you tried to verify/get documentation for a person who genuinely lost it all when their city was bombed and genuinely had to trek across a continent with their family?

I'm unable to renew my passport in 7 days when I'm in full possession of all of my details, the office renewing it are the very same one that issued it less then 10 years previously and are based 10km away from me and there isn't a war going on in the nation....

If you came do it in 7 days, you're equally unlikely to be able to do it in 4 months. If that's the case then the white paper effectively guarantees housing for asylum seekers within 4 months of arriving.

Fairly sure the state housing list has longer wait times than 4 months.

Mules

Sarcozies wrote: »

I can't believe the disgusting responses from a lot of posters here just naming the problems associated with this plan such as growing division, legal costs, resentment from a generation who grew up during the biggest economic collapse in nearly a century who now are going through another, combined with a pandemic where the best chance of having their own little space would be to get sent to prison.

What about th:De food? Have ye all forgot about the great assortment of exotic lunches we will be able to enjoy in the years to come? Always look on.....

:D

Akesh

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

No better than a straw man to fight a strawman.

They're coming in anyway, this is about change to how they're housed...

You obviously don't know what a strawman argument is.
.

MFPM wrote: »

So if the housing issue is solved you're not opposed in principle to people arriving in Ireland?

Of course the pressure on housing has nothing to do with asylum seekers but one suspects you know that!!

Complete nonsense. Asylum seekers will require social housing. If people living in Ireland can't afford a house on the market, how do you expect an asylum seeker to buy privately?

How can you say they have no impact on housing?!

Rodin

What a waste of time and resources.
The money would be better spent processing applications much quicker and sending failed applicants home tout de suite.

mikeym

Will every asylum seeker get a 3 bed semi detached house?

And a passport?

And free healthcare?

And free education?

And free money?

And free legal aid?

They will have more than what I have.

Tacitus Kilgore

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Social or affordable? Or free? Or on market?

Akesh wrote: »

You obviously don't know what a strawman argument is.
.

Fine, answer what I asked you then - which type of housing do you want provided by the government before they turn their hand to assylum seekers?

Tacitus Kilgore

mikeym wrote: »

Will every asylum seeker get a 3 bed semi detached house?

And a passport?

And free healthcare?

And free education?

And free money?

And free legal aid?

They have more than what I have.

They get to keep the first born son of every Irish person too, and unlimited bus stop buggies.

mikeym

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

They get to keep the first born son of every Irish person too, and unlimited bus stop buggies.

I might go to America and claim asylum over there.

Id say ill get all the perks and freebies.

mikeym

What countries are these asylum seekers from?

And what type of free housing do they require?

I apologise for the bad treatment they are getting over here but I didnt invite them here.

Its interesting that the Irish media has barely covered the new proposed pact on asylum by the European Commission, we have an opt out unlike most of the other Member States. It allows Member States to either take some other countries asylum seekers or give money so that they can help be deported etc

The pact also establishes a new expedited system for deciding asylum applications, so if a person is from a country where less than 20% of applications have been approved for asylum in Europe recently they are put in an expedited stream for a decision

"The proposal foresees the establishment of a fast-track process for migrants whose asylum applications are likely to be unsuccessful. These are nationals of countries with a positive response rate to asylum applications of less than 20%, such as Tunisia or Morocco. In these cases, the asylum application would be processed at the border and within 12 weeks. Ylva Johansson, European Commissioner for Home Affairs, stressed in a hearing at the French Senate on 5 November 2020 that an accelerated process would avoid the permanent settlement of migrants, such as professional or social integration, who do not have the right to stay and would thus facilitate the return for the administrations, but also for the migrants themselves. "
https://www.robert-schuman.eu/en/european-issues/0577-understanding-the-new-pact-on-migration-and-asylum

We need the Irish government to give a definitive answer what they intend to do about the pact on migration

Geuze

KeithTS wrote: »

This sounds great for everyone, I wonder why nobody thought about it?
Have you tried to verify/get documentation for a person who genuinely lost it all when their city was bombed and genuinely had to trek across a continent with their family?

I'm unable to renew my passport in 7 days when I'm in full possession of all of my details, the office renewing it are the very same one that issued it less then 10 years previously and are based 10km away from me and there isn't a war going on in the nation....

There are none/few flights from war zones to Ireland.

There are no flights from Syria, etc to Ireland

So all AS arrive on regular ferries/flights from UK, Europe, etc.

Therefore, all AS must have travel docs.

We know that the Albanians/Georgians tear up their docs.

Doctor Roast

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its interesting that the Irish media has barely covered the new proposed pact on asylum by the European Commission, we have an opt out unlike most of the other Member States. It allows Member States to either take some other countries asylum seekers or give money so that they can help be deported etc

The pact also establishes a new expedited system for deciding asylum applications, so if a person is from a country where less than 20% of applications have been approved for asylum in Europe recently they are put in an expedited stream for a decision

"The proposal foresees the establishment of a fast-track process for migrants whose asylum applications are likely to be unsuccessful. These are nationals of countries with a positive response rate to asylum applications of less than 20%, such as Tunisia or Morocco. In these cases, the asylum application would be processed at the border and within 12 weeks. Ylva Johansson, European Commissioner for Home Affairs, stressed in a hearing at the French Senate on 5 November 2020 that an accelerated process would avoid the permanent settlement of migrants, such as professional or social integration, who do not have the right to stay and would thus facilitate the return for the administrations, but also for the migrants themselves. "
https://www.robert-schuman.eu/en/european-issues/0577-understanding-the-new-pact-on-migration-and-asylum

We need the Irish government to give a definitive answer what they intend to do about the pact on migration

What are the chances of that happening, we were always a bit too quick to bend over backwards for the EU.... Infact Ireland will probably take double to prove we're the good boys in the class, sure Leo wants to see a federal EU and Micheal Martin thinks sovereignty is backwards..

Geuze

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

It is assumed on here that all assylum applications are bogus

It is known that many cases are bogus.

We know the Albanians/Georgians are all bogus.

We know that 50% of AS arrive from the UK.

We know that hundreds of illegal Asian immigrants claimed asylum, and got involved in sham marriages. The Guards were shocked at the scale of it.

All published, all reported, no need to assume anything, we know all this.

Geuze

KeithTS wrote: »

4 - I agree, there are people who take advantage of the system and dispose of documentation on arrival. However, proper checks still must be carried out on all arrivals claiming asylum. Not only is it a legal requirement, we also cant just assume (as you do) that all asylum seekers are "bogus" because some happen to be so. Just like we can't say all 50 year old white men are bank robbers because a 50 year old white man robbed a bank once.

This is an extremely complicated scenario with a huge amount of different aspects to consider, reducing it to "99% of asylum seekers are bogus" isn't how decision making and policies work. Sometimes we have to accept the lesser of two evils, personally, I would gladly embrace all of the "bogus" applications and welcome them into our country if it meant that the other "legitimate" cases were accepted.

Thanks. A reasonable post.

How quickly could we establish with certainty whether or not AS are bogus?

I consider anybody travelling via the UK to here to be automatically bogus, as they could have claimed in the UK.

RandRuns

Geuze wrote: »

Thanks. A reasonable post.

How quickly could we establish with certainty whether or not AS are bogus?

I consider anybody travelling via the UK to here to be automatically bogus, as they could have claimed in the UK.

Do any of the asylum seekers arriving here actually come straight from the country they're claiming asylum from? Very few I believe.

Tacitus Kilgore

Doctor Roast wrote: »

What are the chances of that happening, we were always a bit too quick to bend over backwards for the EU.... Infact Ireland will probably take double to prove we're the good boys in the class, sure Leo wants to see a federal EU and Micheal Martin thinks sovereignty is backwards..

How's that sovrinty going for the brits? :pac:


GTFOH with the Irexit nonsense. christ.

Tacitus Kilgore

Geuze wrote: »

It is known that many cases are bogus.

We know the Albanians/Georgians are all bogus.

We know that 50% of AS arrive from the UK.

We know that hundreds of illegal Asian immigrants claimed asylum, and got involved in sham marriages. The Guards were shocked at the scale of it.

All published, all reported, no need to assume anything, we know all this.

Is that all of them? if it ain't then you agree with me.

WrenBoy

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

How's that sovrinty going for the brits? :pac:


GTFOH with the Irexit nonsense. christ.

Theres a difference between exercising our rights to control our own immigration and leaving the EU, its not one or the other.

Tacitus Kilgore

WrenBoy wrote: »

Theres a difference between exercising our rights to control our own immigration and leaving the EU, its not one or the other.

Completely agree, the poster has mentioned the faliure of the EU and leaving the EU in other posts. so yeah, he's coming from an Irexit angle.

Doctor Roast

Doctor Roast wrote: »

What are the chances of that happening, we were always a bit too quick to bend over backwards for the EU.... Infact Ireland will probably take double to prove we're the good boys in the class, sure Leo wants to see a federal EU and Micheal Martin thinks sovereignty is backwards..

I honestly think it would be a good thing if we are part of it, Ireland has turned asylum into a popularity contest so even if you have a ridiculous claim, if you're able to get a few thousand people to sign a petition you get to stay, there being a European agency that will oversee it would presumably take away that aspect that has crept in. Also it might mean they actually deport some bogus people if a European agency is organising returns rather than the DOJ

mgn

MFPM wrote: »

A 'far better option' FFS have you seen these sh!t holes? The institutionalisation of PEOPLE has to stop.

Is that you Ebun Joseph?

Masala

mikeym wrote: »

Will every asylum seeker get a 3 bed semi detached house?

And a passport?

And free healthcare?

And free education?

And free money?

And free legal aid?

They will have more than what I have.

and what about my 27yr old child earning €35,000 a year after 4 years in college getting on the property market??? A mortgage of €105,000 is not going to get him anything.

Will the Government give him a free house???

Tacitus Kilgore

Masala wrote: »

and what about my 27yr old child earning €35,000 a year after 4 years in college getting on the property market??? A mortgage of €105,000 is not going to get him anything.

Will the Government give him a free house???

Do you think the asylum seeker is taking the house from your son? Or responsible for the 3.5x borrowing limits? Are they in their shite.


No - blame the shitty government policies that have lead to this, not a few thousand immigrants. Blame the banks that fucked us ten times over.


Naah, let's just blame the foriners. Much easier.

Doctor Roast

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

How's that sovrinty going for the brits? :pac:


GTFOH with the Irexit nonsense. christ.

How's the vaccination going in the EU?

They should go back to regulating shower heads and light bulbs.

Tacitus Kilgore

Doctor Roast wrote: »

How's the vaccination going in the EU?

They should go back to regulating shower heads and light bulbs.

^^^ Another daily mail warrior here, fucking hell.


Vax is going fine, Ireland will be the most vaccinated country in the world by August, per head. But that's for other threads, not here.


are you going to ask about bendy bananas and white dog shit next?

GT89

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Do you think the asylum seeker is taking the house from your son? Or responsible for the 3.5x borrowing limits? Are they in their shite.


No - blame the shitty government policies that have lead to this, not a few thousand immigrants. Blame the banks that fucked us ten times over.


Naah, let's just blame the foriners. Much easier.

I don't blame the foreigners either. If I was living in Albania, Pakistan or Nigeria and there was a country in the West giving free money and free housing that meant a better standard of living I would on the first plane too. What I am against is the government giving housing to migrants not migrants taking housing from the government.

But hey much easier to just call people who are against migrants being housed by the government ahead of the Irish racist and every phobia under the sun rather than calling for the government to close the borders and house the Irish first then allow in asylum seekers.

Esho

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

No - blame the shitty government policies that have lead to this, not a few thousand immigrants. Blame the banks that fucked us ten times over.


Naah, let's just blame the foriners. Much easier.

This is the best post I've seen about housing and asylum seekers in this thread.

Asylum seekers will end up homeless on this also - here's your 4 months, now find yourself a gaff.

Roderick o gorman is on Newstalk at the moment, outlining this iniative.
Stop panicking Boards posters - it's clear that this will mean Asylum Seekers will be even worse off than they currently are. It is all just more guff.

Eric Cartman

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Do you think the asylum seeker is taking the house from your son? Or responsible for the 3.5x borrowing limits? Are they in their shite.


No - blame the shitty government policies that have lead to this, not a few thousand immigrants. Blame the banks that fucked us ten times over.


Naah, let's just blame the foriners. Much easier.

The asylum seeker is taking money from the tax net, causing high taxation on that worker

The asylum seekers accommodation is taking up land on which more housing could be built, raising house prices.

Non EU migration is an overall negative to Ireland and every asylum seeker we allow in hurts our workers and young people in economic terms.

TomTomTim

GT89 wrote: »

I don't blame the foreigners either. If I was living in Albania, Pakistan or Nigeria and there was a country in the West giving free money and free housing that meant a better standard of living I would on the first plane too. What I am against is the government giving housing to migrants not migrants taking housing from the government.

But hey much easier to just call people who are against migrants being housed by the government ahead of the Irish racist and xenophobes rather than calling for the government to close the borders.

Very few people lay the blame directly on foreigners, no matter how much the likes of Tacticus repeats it. Of course people who abuse the system shouldn't, but they are secondary in the blame game, the main group in our cross hairs have always been the government. They are the ones who create these foolish policies, that are easy to abuse, so they deserve the vast majority of the condemnation.