ISI Fighter Shamima Begum Not allowed to return to the UK

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121807108#Comment_121807108

She should answer for her crimes in Syria and be buried there after sentence carried out.

If she hadn't help kill gays and women who didn't think they should obey bronze age rules would you be so for her? You may be the exception to the rule.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121810486#Comment_121810486

i didn't downplay anything, what she did or didn't do which we don't actually know apart from she joined isis which is a criminal offense in itself, does not change the fact she was groomed and was a child.

she can still be held responsible for any criminal offense regardless but facts are facts.

britain want her to go free, they want her to be a continuing threat to the victims of isis who survived.

it's not the job of the syrians to clean up britain's mess, a mess britain created to placate racists.

to expect the syrians to clean up someone else's mess is racist, supremicist and abusive to those victims of isis who are currently looking after the likes of her.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121810516#Comment_121810516

yup.

the british courts can't tell another country what it's laws are, so the british courts are saying that they believe something is something on the basis of what the government believe based on whatever evidence the government provided.

ultimately, what the bhangladeshi authorities say trumps what a british court says on the matter, it just has to.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121810690#Comment_121810690

the syrians have said they don't want her, they don't want to try her and they want her gone out of the country.

why should they be ignored so a failed british government can placate daily mail reading angry at everything mouth foamers.

Norrie Rugger Head

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121809833#Comment_121809833

So you agree that the child was groomed. Should kids groomed/indoctrinated into cults be cut off?

Kids groomed into sex rings?

Are kids groomed by adults responsible for their actions?

Groomed in Britain, missed by authorities in Britain, allowes to fly as an unaccompanied minor from Britain.

Britain's failure and they abandon the girl they failed.

I don't care if they jail her or whatnot. Their flouting of citizenship protocol is worrying for a western country.

Their exporting of their own failures is peak modern Britain

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121809678#Comment_121809678

So we should execute victims of grooming?

Interesting.

HalloweenJack

Much like the Troubles historical prosecution bill which could establish a precedent to pardon members of the armed forces who murdered British citizens who protested peacefully, what unsettles me about this case is the precedent it will set, if successful. People from a similar background (i.e. children of immigrants) can have their citizenship removed if they push too much against the state.

Begun's case is an extreme example and few will have any sympathy for her because of her actions but the important thing is the legal precedent and any half-decent King's Counsel could surely find an argument to apply it in less extreme examples. All people born in NI are entitled to Irish citizenship, watch how anyone up there complaining against the state could wind up having their rights removed.

There is also the fact that Begum is being left stateless, which is contrary to the UNCHR, iirc, something I'm sure the UK, a country desiring to be seen as some beacon of virtue, no doubt signed up to and likely had a lot to do with its wording.

I recently read about the UK's actions in the Indian Ocean, a case that's been ongoing for sixty years. We can go on about the end of the age of empires but the UK continues to deny or question its legacy when confronted with it, even when confronted with principles and mechanisms it helped to enshrine.

Norrie Rugger Head

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121811005#Comment_121811005

Very very much.

It's a massive shift to the right.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121811005#Comment_121811005

Labour could have Sunaks citizenship revoked and deported.. Or hilariously Sajid Javid. It would be extremely hard not to argue that their actions haven't harmed British interests.

That won't happen, but once dangerous precedents are set it's a slippery slope.

You never know what the state of play may be in 30-40 years.

Patrick2010

Begum interviewed as an adult said seeing severed heads didn't phase her. When she joined Isis it was well known how evil they were.

Norrie Rugger Head

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121812962#Comment_121812962

Child groomed and desensitised reports being desensitised shokka

osarusan

Even if we accept for the same of argument that Begum is guilty of all she's accused of, this is a very unusual, and to my mind, dangerous ruling and precedent.

If we look beyond the 'Let her rot far away from here' argument, it may well open a can of worms.

satguy

She went over there to join up, with a spring in her step..

She quickly moved up the ranks as an enforcer,, and was by all accounts a very nasty person indeed.

She still represents a clear and present danger to the UK,, It would be madness to bring her back.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813155#Comment_121813155

Many children who are victims of grooming and sex trafficking believe they love their abusers.

It's part of the grooming.

I'd struggle to see how much enforcing she was doing considering she was little more than a baby factory over there.

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121809911#Comment_121809911

You obviously have no clue how our deportation / legal system works. Chances are the government would have no say in the matter - think Circuit Court, High Court, Court of Appeal, Supreme Court and if all else fails there's the European Court of Human Rights, all this could take years & years greasing the greedy palms of top lawyers, barristers etc. in the process, paid for our course by us the taxpayer.

Augme

Will any former members of the IRA or Sinn Fein have their British citizenship revoked anytime soon? What about former members of the UVF or LVF(lol)?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813155#Comment_121813155

she poses a bigger threat to the UK where she is.

those overseeing the camp could throw her out at any time and she will in all likelyhood head for europe and into the UK under the noses of the authorities.

the UK in the end will have no choice but to deal with this issue once and for all, if trump gets back in in the US he has said previously he is going to drop foreign isis members back to their country of origin and chances are he will follow through.

probably the only thing he is correct on.

hundreds of former fighters have returned to the UK already, i suspect a lot more then the authorities know about.

Galwayguy35

ISIS were making videos of themselves burning people alive and cutting their heads off at the time she and her buddies went over there.

They knew well what was going on.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121810744#Comment_121810744

I never get tired of strangers on the internet telling me what i agree to be true ,

poor little boo knew enough to get her self half way around the world ,

she can deal with the consequences of becoming a active participant in a organization like isis

leave her in the desert to die

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813364#Comment_121813364

i'm very well aware of how it works, better then you ever will.

she would have no valid claim to remain in ireland, no court would uphold any appeal, the european court of human rights would also strike down any appeal on the basis that she is british and believe me, britain is the only one who would recognise her not being a british citizen.

it's not going to happen.

Norrie Rugger Head

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813540#Comment_121813540

So groomed kids should be executed?

Good to know

Norrie Rugger Head

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813541#Comment_121813541

So, sex trafficked kids should also be left to rot?

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813556#Comment_121813556

She was part of an organization that kidnapped women and restored the sex slave markets in Syria, 130 years after their closing at European gun point.

She and her friends went, at considerable personal difficulty, to join that group at a time when everyone knew what it was doing.

She should be given to the yazidi women and let them try her, sentence and bury.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813556#Comment_121813556

she was sex trafficked now was she ?

The Daily Telegraph reported that Begum had been an "enforcer" in IS's "morality police", and had tried to recruit other young women to join the jihadist group.[25] The report said that she was allowed to carry a Kalashnikov rifle and earned a reputation as a strict enforcer of IS's laws, such as dress codes for women. An anti-IS activist was also reported by The Daily Telegraph as saying that there were allegations of Begum stitching suicide bombs into explosive vests so they could not be removed without detonating.[26]

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813484#Comment_121813484

The whole point of the Irish struggle in the north over recent decades was to revoke British citizenship.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121810217#Comment_121810217

Jihadi Jack had the same done to himz he didn't have the same accusations if extreme violence towards women that begum had.

If those she abused. Helped rape. Kill, if they had been paler would she have the support here for her repatriation.

Course not.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813530#Comment_121813530

the poster was not engaging in race bating.

the reality is that both of you are right, if begum was white she may well be back in the UK by now, but that the british authorities also don't care about white young girls when it suits.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813536#Comment_121813536

that wouldn't remove the grooming factor.

however the reality is they were able to leave the country and travel to turkey without question when that was a well known route for would be isis members to travel to syria.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813655#Comment_121813655

What is the point in pretending she was groomed?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813588#Comment_121813588

the yazidis have said they don't want to deal with foreign isis fighters and they aren't their problem to sort out.

why should they have to deal with britain's problem?

none of the groups in syria want anything to do with the likes of her, they want them gone out of the country so why should they be ignored to appease mouth breathers in the UK?