Italy vs Ireland match thread

UAEguy2020

mfceiling wrote: »

You keep trying to make this point.

There will be no different narrative. Italy are poor and you can only beat what's in front of you. Nobody will be getting carried away with this result whether you want it to be that way or not.

Let’s see

Burkie1203

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

Agreed. Kelleher's came off a knee and he regathered. It wasn't at all obvious and if that's sufficient to constitute a knock on then every second ruck will result in a scrum.

The Henderson non try was as bad. People can argue about whether he was in control but for it not to be reviewed by Reynal was poor. The certainty with which Henderson's claim was disregarded was baffling.

If Kelleher regathered it is either a pen for playing the ball on the ground or offside.

sydthebeat

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

Agreed. Kelleher's came off a knee and he regathered. It wasn't at all obvious and if that's sufficient to constitute a knock on then every second ruck will result in a scrum.

The Henderson non try was as bad. People can argue about whether he was in control but for it not to be reviewed by Reynal was poor. The certainty with which Henderson's claim was disregarded was baffling.

if it wasnt a knock on, the kelleher was offside and it would have been a pen to italy

Podge_irl

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

The Henderson non try was as bad. People can argue about whether he was in control but for it not to be reviewed by Reynal was poor. The certainty with which Henderson's claim was disregarded was baffling.

Reynal asked Poite to check it - Poite reported it wasn't a try. The game was still going on, there is nothing more Reynal could realistically do. Shocking from Poite though - can only imagine he misread the lines on the pitch!?

TomsOnTheRoof

It should have been a penalty but again it happens every ruck. I mean if it had been called on that fair enough but it wasn't.

wicklowstevo

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Billy Burns isnt really an issue and he should have been on the pitch far earlier today. We had the game won well before he came on and when the starting 10 is a 100 cap 35 year old it was ridiculous leaving him on that long.



Poite was poor but it just shows being a TMO is very different to being on pitch official and you need to get specialists doing it

had burns been on the pitch earlier the game might not have been out of sight though

really burns has had lots of opportunity and shown he isnt up to it

id have Madigan before burns at this stage

its sad for the lad I know but he should be released before the flood negative feedback from fans and pundits start

TomsOnTheRoof

Podge_irl wrote: »

Reynal asked Poite to check it - Poite reported it wasn't a try. The game was still going on, there is nothing more Reynal could realistically do. Shocking from Poite though - can only imagine he misread the lines on the pitch!?

Ah I've given up on trying to understand Póite.

aloooof

wicklowstevo wrote: »

had burns been on the pitch earlier the game might not have been out of sight though

really burns has had lots of opportunity and shown he isnt up to it

id have Madigan before burns at this stage

its sad for the lad I know but he should be released before the flood negative feedback from fans and pundits start

Farrell won't be making any decisions based on feedback from fans and pundits.

sydthebeat

wicklowstevo wrote: »

had burns been on the pitch earlier the game might not have been out of sight though

really burns has had lots of opportunity and shown he isnt up to it

id have Madigan before burns at this stage

its sad for the lad I know but he should be released before the flood negative feedback from fans and pundits start

Madigan, burns, carty and Ross Byrne are all very similar in the distance they are behind sexton

wicklowstevo

aloooof wrote: »

Farrell won't be making any decisions based on feedback from fans and pundits.

and he shouldn't , that for the player himself


form surely should dictate , is billy burns really the form 10 ? there are a lot of lads with a better claim to the jersey

it took long enough for him to let casey have a go, cooney ditto

Lost Ormond

wicklowstevo wrote: »

had burns been on the pitch earlier the game might not have been out of sight though

really burns has had lots of opportunity and shown he isnt up to it

id have Madigan before burns at this stage

its sad for the lad I know but he should be released before the flood negative feedback from fans and pundits start

It would.
Burns hasnt had loads of opportunities. He has 5 caps.
You cant say dont select Burns because he's had lots of opportunities and shown he isnt good enough and then suggest Ian Madigan as an alternative.

PTH2009

Happy with the win and hopefully it kick starts us a bit and we go on to beat Scotland and England ?

bilston

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

Agreed. Kelleher's came off a knee and he regathered. It wasn't at all obvious and if that's sufficient to constitute a knock on then every second ruck will result in a scrum.

The Henderson non try was as bad. People can argue about whether he was in control but for it not to be reviewed by Reynal was poor. The certainty with which Henderson's claim was disregarded was baffling.

Is anyone arguing whether Henderson was in control?!!! He 100% was in control. It couldn't have clearer. There is no argument! It was probably the worst TMO decision I've ever seen!

Paul Smeenus

Lost Ormond wrote: »

It would.
Burns hasnt had loads of opportunities. He has 5 caps.
You cant say dont select Burns because he's had lots of opportunities and shown he isnt good enough and then suggest Ian Madigan as an alternative.

No-one that saw the Ulster game last night would be championing Madigan today

Definitely some good individual performances but we're still not a very good team imo.

bilston

Podge_irl wrote: »

Italy will beat Georgia.

Probably.

But the threat of relegation might give them a severe kick up the arse.

More to the point, it might serve as an incentive for Georgia

prawnsambo

bilston wrote: »

Is anyone arguing whether Henderson was in control?!!! He 100% was in control. It couldn't have clearer. There is no argument! It was probably the worst TMO decision I've ever seen!

Somebody (Podge?) mentioned the extra lines possibly being the issue. Either way, shocking decision.

bilston

Have to say I was really impressed by both debutants today.

Podge_irl

bilston wrote: »

Probably.

But the threat of relegation might give them a severe kick up the arse.

More to the point, it might serve as an incentive for Georgia

Perhaps, but I suspect people might get disillusioned when Georgia are giving up the same or worse hammerings if they ever snuck up...

Lost Ormond

Podge_irl wrote: »

Perhaps, but I suspect people might get disillusioned when Georgia are giving up the same or worse hammerings if they ever snuck up...

Exactly. Georgia need far more games against 6 nations and rugby championship sides, as do the rest of the 11-20 ranked sides in world but having relegation isnt the answer.

bilston

bilston wrote: »

Is anyone arguing whether Henderson was in control?!!! He 100% was in control. It couldn't have clearer. There is no argument! It was probably the worst TMO decision I've ever seen!

What law even says you have to be in control?

https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/law/8/?highlight=ground

I don't see the word used here. There's an illustration of someone there grounding it with their torso, are they in control?

sydthebeat

Julius Narrow Railroad wrote: »

What law even says you have to be in control?

https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/law/8/?highlight=ground

I don't see the word used here. There's an illustration of someone there grounding it with their torso, are they in control?

We went through all that argument last week with the Jonny may try.

TomsOnTheRoof

bilston wrote: »

Is anyone arguing whether Henderson was in control?!!! He 100% was in control. It couldn't have clearer. There is no argument! It was probably the worst TMO decision I've ever seen!

I think that was the reason Poite gave. Not in control and knocked on. I agree that it was a terrible call. Can't remember a worse one.

The Inbetween is mine

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

I think that was the reason Poite gave. Not in control and knocked on. I agree that it was a terrible call. Can't remember a worse one.

We just saw one against England there

fitz

sydthebeat wrote: »

we had 3 tries ruled out by the TMO

we pretty much did as much as we could

That's fair, but there was a period after the BP try where we eased off, I thought. Maybe I'm being harsh...

Must love hardship

joseywhales wrote: »

Healy is a bit of a penalties machine(+knock ons) this championship, I dont know if we can afford that for the sake of scrummaging

Italys try came after kilcoyne gave away a penalty at the scrum no? He was under serious pressure leading up to that... if he can't scrumage v Italy what hope does he have v stronger teams.. you can have all the bluster you want to around the field but if you can't scrummage.. your in trouble at this level.. too injury prone too.

Must love hardship

Podge_irl wrote: »

Italy will beat Georgia.

Get south africa in instead of Italy.

salmocab

Podge_irl wrote: »

Perhaps, but I suspect people might get disillusioned when Georgia are giving up the same or worse hammerings if they ever snuck up...

Georgia might occasionally win play off but would just lose worse than Italy. I do think though that Italy have to do something but I really don’t know what. It can’t be good for rugby in Italy to lose so many games.

The Inbetween is mine

Must love hardship wrote: »

Get south africa in instead of Italy.

I would say the idea is being explored

Faugheen

Casey cost Lowe a try and nearly cost us a second one before Ireland mauled over.

Should never play again.

sydthebeat

salmocab wrote: »

Georgia might occasionally win play off but would just lose worse than Italy. I do think though that Italy have to do something but I really don’t know what. It can’t be good for rugby in Italy to lose so many games.

Italys problem is there position in world rugby in comparison to their 6Ns competition. The other 5 are top 8, while Italy are 14th. Two positions behind Georgia BTW. The divide is simply too much and they are a points difference obstacle only.

The were ranked 11th when world rugby rankings started in 2003 and they have never exceeded that position to date.

Maybe if South Africa joined the 6N there may be a place to allow Georgia to enter as well, then they would actually have a goal to meet in each competition

The Inbetween is mine

Faugheen wrote: »

Casey cost Lowe a try and nearly cost us a second one before Ireland mauled over.

Should never play again.

Ah ffs.....let him play AIL at least.. Shannon seem to like him

sydthebeat

Faugheen wrote: »

Casey cost Lowe a try and nearly cost us a second one before Ireland mauled over.

Should never play again.

I hope you are being facetious here

Clegg

sydthebeat wrote: »

I hope you are being facetious here

I assume it's a response to the people who want Lowe dropped after 5 caps.

sydthebeat

Clegg wrote: »

I assume it's a response to the people who want Lowe dropped after 5 caps.

Maybe so, though that would be a bit petty.

Those people aren't worth replying to.

We don't have many wingers of lowes ilk that have both the peace and power to make things happen out of nothing. Lowe is going nowhere for the foreseeable

Garda Kenny

leakyboots wrote: »

Not sure I agree on Kelleher to be honest so far

Kelleher in Ireland’s top performers today. Physically he’s better than Herring and brings more to the gainline battle in terms of winning collisions. His throwing was good bar one crooked throw. He brings more than Herring and should be a starter going forward.

bilston

Must love hardship wrote: »

Get south africa in instead of Italy.

Or add South Africa AND Georgia. An odd number would knock the tournament out of sync.

Have 7 weekends. Two in November in addition to a couple of Autumn Internationals and five in the Spring.

The thing to remember about Georgia is that rugby is massive there. That's not the case in Italy. Georgia may not have the financial muscle that Italy has, but they probably have more growth potential.

Moot point anyway. I think South Africa signed up to the Rugby Championship for another 5 years a few months ago.

bilston

sydthebeat wrote: »

Maybe so, though that would be a bit petty.

Those people aren't worth replying to.

We don't have many wingers of lowes ilk that have both the peace and power to make things happen out of nothing. Lowe is going nowhere for the foreseeable

We'll see. Stockdale will be available for the Scotland match. Interesting call.

Faugheen

Clegg wrote: »

I assume it's a response to the people who want Lowe dropped after 5 caps.

Not so much Lowe but basically taking the piss out of fickle Irish sports fans in general.

Casey was grand. Balls of energy, which I like

Garda Kenny

My thoughts on today’s game Front 3 were very good and you have to think that Healy and Herring are coming to the end of starting for Ireland. Killer Kell and Furlong bulldozed their way to gainline dominance today. The Italians were young raw and inexperienced in the front row but job done as far as our front 3 are concerned.

Second row were good but not as dominant as I would have liked against the Italians. Lineout functioned well and they eked out yards in attack and defence.Adequate performance.

Backrow, Stander was the pick of the backrow for me. Beirne had a quiet game and Connors as well. Haven’t seen the stats but would be surprised if any of them were in double figures on the tackle count. We were attacking for large segments of the game so that doesn’t really tell a whole lot but on attack Stander offered the most out of the three.

Gibson Park and Casey are the two best scrum halves in Ireland. Farrell has got it right in this position and has the two best players playing there. JGP has a speedy delivery and the thing he offers which Murray and the other contenders don’t have is a constant threat around the base. He is consistently involved in play and it’s like we have an extra man in attack as he’s always in support. Cooney good in support also but JGP does it more often. Casey is speedy also and gets the team moving quickly which is essential in test rugby. JGP bit in in defence on the wing for one try again. It’s something he’ll have to address but can’t hold it against him in an otherwise marvellous performance.

Johnny was solid and confirmed why he was chosen. Got his kicks and spread the play well to the right areas. Nothing spectacular but better than the challengers at the moment.

Henshaw and Ringrose were like the glue that hold the team together. Ringrose has telling contributions at key moments and their control of the defensive system brought a calm to proceedings. Henshaw was quiet with ball but works his socks off without the ball. Best centre partnership we have.

Keenan was good without being spectacular. We have shored up our problems under the high ball and he offers something on the counter attack and cuts good lines in attack. Larmour looked sharp but had some errors. I will put that down to rustiness but we should persist with him as Earls is coming to the end. Lowe was good in attack and shaky in defence. We know what we get with him potentially lethal finisher but will leak tries in defence.

I will be interested to see the match stats and individual stats if and when they come out but all in all we were playing against a sub standard test team in Italy today

TomsOnTheRoof

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

We just saw one against England there

It's mental stuff today

Must love hardship

Garda Kenny wrote: »

Gibson Park and Casey are the two best scrum halves in Ireland. Farrell has got it right in this position and has the two best players playing there. JGP has a speedy delivery and the thing he offers which Murray and the other contenders don’t have is a constant threat around the base. He is consistently involved in play and it’s like we have an extra man in attack as he’s always in support. Cooney good in support also but JGP does it more often. Casey is speedy also and gets the team moving quickly which is essential in test rugby. JGP bit in in defence on the wing for one try again. It’s something he’ll have to address but can’t hold it against him in an otherwise marvellous performance.

Jgp got an absolute arm chair ride today. My nan would have played well with the delivery he got. You can't judge a scrumhalf on that performance from the presentation of ball he got but you can judge him on his defence. Which was poor out on the wing on a number of occasions biting in and you can judge him for his decision making like his quick tap which cost us 30 metres and gave the italians position of the ball.
The ball there was the penalty down the line and take a line out not a snipe.

joseywhales

Must love hardship wrote: »

Italys try came after kilcoyne gave away a penalty at the scrum no? He was under serious pressure leading up to that... if he can't scrumage v Italy what hope does he have v stronger teams.. you can have all the bluster you want to around the field but if you can't scrummage.. your in trouble at this level.. too injury prone too.

I am not really a Kilcoyne fan either, I think I'd like to see more of Ed Byrne. Healy gave away two penalties and a knock on by my count in the time he was on the field and he is a liability in the defensive line and no longer offers much as a ball carrier. This is against Italy.

TRC10

Must love hardship wrote: »

Jgp got an absolute arm chair ride today. My nan would have played well with the delivery he got. You can't judge a scrumhalf on that performance from the presentation of ball he got but you can judge him on his defence. Which was poor out on the wing on a number of occasions biting in and you can judge him for his decision making like his quick tap which cost us 30 metres and gave the italians position of the ball.
The ball there was the penalty down the line and take a line out not a snipe.

Quick tap was good. He gained great yards and it would have got us on great front foot ball. That's on his pack for not supporting him.

Must love hardship

TRC10 wrote: »

Quick tap was good. He gained great yards and it would have got us on great front foot ball. That's on his pack for not supporting him.

Quick tap down a blind alley was a poor choice and he got found out for it..

TRC10

Must love hardship wrote: »

Quick tap down a blind alley was a poor choice and he got found out for it..

Hardly a blind alley, he gained great yards and wasn't supported.

TomsOnTheRoof

pickarooney wrote: »

Penalty for me. Kelleher played the ball on the ground after he had placed it and it came forward off a knee.

And that would have been grand but the officials failed to spot that as well

Burkie1203

Garda Kenny wrote: »

Backrow, Stander was the pick of the backrow for me. Beirne had a quiet game and Connors as well. Haven’t seen the stats but would be surprised if any of them were in double figures on the tackle count. We were attacking for large segments of the game so that doesn’t really tell a whole lot but on attack Stander offered the most out of the three.

Connors was top tackler in backrow 14/0 (he was also 7 carries for 13m)
Only Ryan in the forwards made more tackles.

Brewster

Garda Kenny wrote: »

Kelleher in Ireland’s top performers today. Physically he’s better than Herring and brings more to the gainline battle in terms of winning collisions. His throwing was good bar one crooked throw. He brings more than Herring and should be a starter going forward.

Kelleher was under zero pressure at the line out, literally none, and he was pulled up for one bad throw, and he had at least one more he got away with. Fantastic prospect, and I think he will come good, but I’d be back to Herring for last two games with Kelleher to make an impact off bench. It’s clear these two are our two best hookers. But when under pressure Kelleher hasn’t earned our trust yet......

TRC10

Brewster wrote: »

Kelleher was under zero pressure at the line out, literally none, and he was pulled up for one bad throw, and he had at least one more he got away with. Fantastic prospect, and I think he will come good, but I’d be back to Herring for last two games with Kelleher to make an impact off bench. It’s clear these two are our two best hookers. But when under pressure Kelleher hasn’t earned our trust yet......

Hasn't he? He outperformed Herring when he came on in both games against Wales and France. He was very good again today
But one crooked throw means he can't be trusted? Herring might be slightly more reliable in the set piece but theres no debate as to who the better rugby player is.