Gateway to field? Any official records?

Donald Trump

Are there any official records of gateways into fields from the road?


Suppose you have two fields along a road, but only one gataeway was being used for the last 30 or 40 years so that the other one was blocked off and is now overgrown with briars/hedge. The farmer only used one gateway and went from that field into the second field.



How would you prove that the other one is an actual gateway and that you would not be breaking a new gap into a field? Or would you be allowed to break a new gap anyway?


If it was bought land and you didn't know where the "official" gateways were. How would you find out? I presume there would be some planning issues with just opening up a gap so that you couldn't just open up a new gap and put a gate on it.


Or would most fellas just bull ahead and clean it up, put a gate on it, in the hope that nobody would report them.

Donald Trump

This thread talks about an exemption if a road is less than 4 metres wide.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057273193

But my question is more related to how you would prove that one existed (or find out whether it did)

Nekarsulm

Bull ahead, clean it up, and fit the oldest gate you can find.
Preferably an old blacksmith made one.

Donegalforever

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Bull ahead, clean it up, and fit the oldest gate you can find.
Preferably an old blacksmith made one.

I have seen where a new entrance was open into a field and there didn't appear to be any repercussions.
Perhaps none of the neighbours complained ?

Donald Trump

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Bull ahead, clean it up, and fit the oldest gate you can find.
Preferably an old blacksmith made one.

The complication would be more with the owner begin asked to potentially sell that field.
Buyer comes in, buys the field, then a year or two later someone reports the "new" gateway. Planning enforcement says it needs to be closed up and then the buyer potentially has no access.



When you buy a house you can check the title etc. When you buy a field, there doesn't appear to be any record of gateways etc.

Bass Reeves

Donald Trump wrote: »

The complication would be more with the owner begin asked to potentially sell that field.
Buyer comes in, buys the field, then a year or two later someone reports the "new" gateway. Planning enforcement says it needs to be closed up and then the buyer potentially has no access.



When you buy a house you can check the title etc. When you buy a field, there doesn't appear to be any record of gateways etc.

I do not think that would happen. The most they would do not is a insist on a recessed splayed entrance and maybe no e it so it was further from a turn

Donald Trump

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I do not think that would happen. The most they would do not is a insist on a recessed splayed entrance and maybe no e it so it was further from a turn

Here is a case where a fella was refused permission. Although it appears to be onto a national road


https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/gate-shut-on-farmers-planning-application/

Nekarsulm

Yeah, but that fellow is in a slightly different scenario, he not only wanted to make an entrance where there was none before, he actually drew the Authorities attention to the fact by " doing the right thing" and applying for planning permission.
He also states that he wanted to remove a concrete rail fence at that point, and also a strip of existing trees.
In your first post you stated that there was an existing gap " grown up with briers and hedge".
I have a field along a road that links 2 towns, and made a gap out onto the road at the other end of the field to the existing gateway.
It's in a much safer position as the original was on a bend, and just after a crest in the road.
There 15 years now and nobody ever commented on it.

Bass Reeves

Donald Trump wrote: »

Here is a case where a fella was refused permission. Although it appears to be onto a national road


https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/gate-shut-on-farmers-planning-application/

I say there is more to that than meets the eye. How did he lose access via original access. Did he own the land that originally gave access. How come there was never access to this land from that road.

jimmy G M

Nekarsulm wrote: »

There 15 years now and nobody ever commented on it.

Something in the back of my mind tells me that if something is in place for 7 years without PP then it's permanent and cannot be rowed back on

From my few decades here this is how I've learned life works. If you ask official Ireland a question, the set answer is no. No is comforting, it places no responsibility on them, no repercussions (after all, what can YOU do to them). So, unless you have a cast iron join the dots, colour coded plan in place, and enjoy bureaucratic hand holding, JFDI. It is better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Donald Trump

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Yeah, but that fellow is in a slightly different scenario, he not only wanted to make an entrance where there was none before, he actually drew the Authorities attention to the fact by " doing the right thing" and applying for planning permission.
He also states that he wanted to remove a concrete rail fence at that point, and also a strip of existing trees.
In your first post you stated that there was an existing gap " grown up with briers and hedge".
I have a field along a road that links 2 towns, and made a gap out onto the road at the other end of the field to the existing gateway.
It's in a much safer position as the original was on a bend, and just after a crest in the road.
There 15 years now and nobody ever commented on it.

Well there is an old gate buried in briars and there are no trees .... but whether that constituted an actual gateway or a lazy mans fencing job would be what is not known. All that is known is that it hasn't been actively used in memory of the person who has owned it for a couple of decades.



My question was more whether there was some way of proving that there was, or someone else proving that there wasn't in the even that it was cleaned up an actual gate hung there :-) . Not specific to any one real situation

Donald Trump

jimmy G M wrote: »

Something in the back of my mind tells me that if something is in place for 7 years without PP then it's permanent and cannot be rowed back on

That is for enforcement. The statute of limitations is 7 years I think for planning breaches. It doesn't mean that it becomes regularized (or legal) just that they can't do anything about it at that time.


So if you build a shed without permission (assuming it would have officially needed it), and you get away with it, then after 7 years they can't make you take it down..............but I think that they can refuse to grant you further permission until you regularize it. Some people seem to think that it acquires permission after the 7 years.

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

My question was more whether there was some way of proving that there was, or someone else proving that there wasn't in the even that it was cleaned up an actual gate hung there :-) . Not specific to any one real situation

Geohive has more maps than you could throw a bag of hammers at but I'm not sure gateways are noted.

The obvious newer tech would be images from the likes of Google Earth, or bing maps.

Nekarsulm

As herdquitter says, easier to ask for forgiveness than permission!
My course of action would be to take pictures of the old gate in the hedge, then get it restored and hang it on two good girders or concrete posts.
If anyone complains ( and there's lots of folk walking the roads nowadays, just looking for some diversion to their daily routine) then its up to them to prove that it was never a gateway.

Donald Trump

What I'd probably do myself, if it were me and I had the time, would be to clear off the existing bushes first.
Then after a year or so, replace with a new enough gate.
A year or two later, then hang the gate properly

Nekarsulm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

As herdquitter says, easier to ask for forgiveness than permission!
My course of action would be to take pictures of the old gate in the hedge, then get it restored and hang it on two good girders or concrete posts.
If anyone complains ( and there's lots of folk walking the roads nowadays, just looking for some diversion to their daily routine) then its up to them to prove that it was never a gateway.

Yeah, could be an idea to wait until they've all gone on holiday en mass before doing anything :pac:

K.G.

If its for agricultural use unless it causes an issue with water runoff or sightlines on roads i dont think it will be an issue .on the other hand if some development is planned then i would think its an issue and would be treated no different to any planning matter

Gudstock

Deleted User wrote: »

Geohive has more maps than you could throw a bag of hammers at but I'm not sure gateways are noted.

The obvious newer tech would be images from the likes of Google Earth, or bing maps.

The different map layers on OSI Geohive map viewer are really informative. You could find out that this was the entrance to a smaller field partition in the 1800s, or from the older satellite photos from 1995 or 2000