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Right wing extremist group behind Dublin Protest say Gardai
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yourdeadwright wrote: »Yes your right the best option is to do something that can only make the thing your protesting against last longer & makes all the valid hardships you mention worse ,that without question is the best thing to do ..Bravo
The intelligent people who stayed at home are in fact doing more for the cause,
Well the whole premise of the lockdown protests are that the lockdowns are unjustified, even with an uptick in cases as a result of said protests, they will still be unjustified.
Again the police brutality analogy comes to mind.
Just because theres a risk things will get worse doesnt mean you should hold your tongue and put up with injustice.0 -
suicide_circus wrote: »Has anyone been around the Portobello area of Dublin along the canal recently? It was black with hundreds of people socialising Saturday and Sunday.
The police have given up on policing restrictions.0 -
Well the whole premise of the lockdown protests are that the lockdowns are unjustified, even with an uptick in cases as a result of said protests, they will still be unjustified.
Again the police brutality analogy comes to mind.
Just because theres a risk things will get worse doesnt mean you should hold your tongue and put up with injustice.
You do realise nobody wants to be in lockdown and the government and everyone else is well aware of that ???
There is absolute no need for a mass protest and there is absolutely no good that can come of it ,
Marching against things like police brutality is to bring attention to it,
Who isn't aware of Covid that you feel we need a march to bring it to peoples attention ?0 -
I can 100% guarantee that if an actual peaceful protest was organised, there would not be any of the issues that we saw last Saturday.
If the protest was organised by the SME Ireland, Irish hoteliers and the Vitners organisation, so you think the same thing would have happened?
I think you should care who you are marching beside.
Somehow those union types been v qt on this and esp the Vintners have done sfa for their members.
Sure I'd go if they organised it but they didn't.
No matter who organises it you cant control how shows up but it's off point now. The 99% were well behaved and it was a decent atmosphere bar that flashpoint. The narrative in the media (and here) is that that the entire protest which is dishonest and typical of our media in ireland.yourdeadwright wrote: »How did anyone who went to that protest think it was a good idea ?
Even if you are anti- lockdown how in your right mind could you think a mass protest against it would do anything other than prolong that thing your are protesting against ,
Honesty one of the stupidest protests I can ever recall ,
Next time, i'll ask your approval :rolleyes:0 -
To be fair any time something similar happens at a left wing protest or a BLM rally we're supposed to believe it's actually been carried out by a far right activist trying to discredit the protest they're at.
I've literally never seen anyone in a position of power in Ireland claim that trouble being caused at a left-leaning gathering was due to right-wing, false-flag, agents provocateurs. Like, never. You seem to be saying this is a regular thing, but I've honestly never come across it.Howard Beale wrote: »
There was a very aggressive baton charge after that simpleton let off the Roman Candle. Tens of thousands tarred due to one total moron.
It's important to note many many children were in the crowd. The baton charge could have seriously hurt people in fact when it happened a man beside me had his toddler in a buggy. incredibly dangerous to baton charge people with toddlers or very young children
The only people wanting trouble were Drew Harris, Rocket man and the Gardai.
There are videos of groups of idiots at the top of Grafton street promising to 'wreck the place' before anything happened with regards to the fireworks. And they're only the ones that were stupid enough to publish it. There were more troublemakers there than you're letting on, let's be honest.
Also, anyone bringing a child in a buggy up to the front lines of such a protest should be charged with endangering that child. You're making the point that the Guards were agressive and violent, and presumably shouldn't have charged towards the crowd because there were kids present. Do me a favour, tell us where you work and I'll pop in with a toddler and a load of fireworks, start shooting them at your face while you're trying to do your job. We'll see how quickly you're screaming for a baton charge then.
Firing people for their thoughts is straight from 1984.
It depends. Mostly on how you act on those thoughts. If you're, say, an actress in a series produced by the largest Children's entertainment on the planet, and you come out and say something that could blacken Disney's name, and then get fired for it......you're not being fired for your thoughts. You're being fired for how you acted on those thoughts.
Firing people for their actions is fair game. Firing them for their thoughts that manifest in ways that are contrary to the ethics and morality of the employer or which violate specific clauses in your employment contract is also industry standard. This "thought police" bolloxology is just that, a load of bollocks.
People aren't being fired for their thoughts, though. They're being fired for acting on those thoughts and bringing undue notice on the people who pay their wages. If you're a 'right-winger' and you get fired because there's a photo of you in the paper wearing swastikas and throwing Nazi salutes, then you're not being fired for your thoughts. You're being fired for acting on those thoughts. There is a hugely relevant difference.0 -
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yourdeadwright wrote: »Who isn't aware of Covid that you feel we need a march to bring it to peoples attention ?
They aren’t matching against covid. It’s not an awareness march.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »
Firing people for their actions is fair game. Firing them for their thoughts that manifest in ways that are contrary to the ethics and morality of the employer or which violate specific clauses in your employment contract is also industry standard. This "thought police" bolloxology is just that, a load of bollocks.
People aren't being fired for their thoughts, though. They're being fired for acting on those thoughts and bringing undue notice on the people who pay their wages. If you're a 'right-winger' and you get fired because there's a photo of you in the paper wearing swastikas and throwing Nazi salutes, then you're not being fired for your thoughts. You're being fired for acting on those thoughts. There is a hugely relevant difference.
I dont think there was any people at the protest throwing nazi salutes and the like. Whilst I agree that people marching with nazi's and throwing nazi salutes are are beyond the pale, should be kept an eye on and not be socialised with, what would your response be to someone fired because they were pictured at a Fine Gael Rally? If their employer hated FG with a passion and thought them to be evil or whatever ?0 -
These sorts of dribbling eejits exist everywhere. They're the guys in the village or their local pub who might be described "a bit of a gobshíte" or "harmless". They're the guy in the group who doesn't have his shít together. The thicko from school.
These types are ripe for manipulation and historically have been targeted by all sorts of demagogues on both the right and the left. They're the bottom-barrel rent-a-crowd.
The question is, which groups are targeting them this time?0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »Firing people for their actions is fair game. Firing them for their thoughts that manifest in ways that are contrary to the ethics and morality of the employer or which violate specific clauses in your employment contract is also industry standard. This "thought police" bolloxology is just that, a load of bollocks.
That sentiment would justify plenty of authoritarian regimes and strict conservative regimes. Employers used to ban socialists etc. Schools banned atheists. All lawful but still an infringement of liberty.People aren't being fired for their thoughts, though.
Nobody is ever fired or killed for thoughts. It’s speech or actions.0 -
the far left have over ten TD,s in the dail , dozens of local councillors , have friends in media , academia and dominate the NGO sector
yet you dont think theres " an issue with the rise of a far left "
your about as centrist as paul murphy
Who, in government, would you classify as 'far left' and what have they done that is as abhorrent as the stuff that goes on in the name of the 'far right'?
You know, outright xenophobia and barring people of certain religion or ethnicity, reintroducing the death penalty, promotion of homophobic policies, barring women from access to abortions (even when they are raped), splitting people open with sticks wrapped in Irish flags, calling anyone who opposes you as paedophile sympathisers and setting the dogs on them, calling for the deportation of anyone who's Irish but doesn't look like it, equating homosexuality with paedophilia......that sorta thing.0 -
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yourdeadwright wrote: »How did anyone who went to that protest think it was a good idea ?
Even if you are anti- lockdown how in your right mind could you think a mass protest against it would do anything other than prolong that thing your are protesting against ,
Honesty one of the stupidest protests I can ever recall ,
I'll tell you why:
1. The virus will continue to mutate, mutations affect the virus's antigenic profile which means that as the virus mutates, the current vaccines may not work at all.
2. The Government and NPHET have been scoring successive own goals for weeks and have failed to develop a plan that protects both the economy and the people. What is the plan if the current round of vaccines fail? We don't have one.
3. The whole point of the lockdown is to protect the Health Service. This is the same health service that has been ran into the ground by successive governments.
4. Locking the population away to protect a small vulnerable portion of the population is not a viable long term strategy. While protecting lives should be at the forefront of our Covid policies, the economy can not be forgotten about. Many businesses will close permanently as a result of these restrictions. Legislation has also been passed with no public mandate or consultation. Someone will have to pay the costs of these measures and knowing our weak government, the majority of the tab will be passed to our IT payers and future generations.
5. Where is the contingency plan if the vaccine doesn't work? Why are we sitting on our hands with a wait and see approach when you consider:
- The public are becoming increasingly frustrated with the messaging from NPHET and the Government
- We have the toughest restrictions in Europe yet have the highest death rates in nursing homes
- NPHET and the Government blaming the public when it is very clear that the management of this pandemic has been a complete shambles from the start and an inquiry is needed into the deaths in our nursing homes and how these decisions have been made
The problem for some people is that NPHET and the Government are leading us into perpetual lockdown because there is no alternative plan.
Some people may not like or understand why people are protesting but they also need to accept that this is a democracy and people should be allowed to protest if they wish. We will go down a dangerous path if we start condemning people for expressing their opinion in public in the form of a protest, particularly considering the government and NPHET and have absolutely no mandate for their actions to date.
My personal prediction is that if there isn't a tangible end in sight in the next few weeks we will see way more protests which will descend into more and more violence.
Everyone should just hope that the vaccine works because Micheal Martin, Leo Varadkar, Eamon Ryan, Tony Holohan etc. are the last people I want making decisions for the country. Perhaps if people don't want people protesting then they should stop voting for the same parties that just go from crisis-to-crisis, instead of showing actual leadership and planning. For the record, I wouldn't be too keen on any of the alternatives either.0 -
mcmoustache wrote: »These sorts of dribbling eejits exist everywhere. They're the guys in the village or their local pub who might be described "a bit of a gobshíte" or "harmless". They're the guy in the group who doesn't have his shít together. The thicko from school.
These types are ripe for manipulation and historically have been targeted by all sorts of demagogues on both the right and the left. They're the bottom-barrel rent-a-crowd.
The question is, which groups are targeting them this time?
Anti lockdowners? I don’t see anti lockdown sentiment as being intrinsically right wing. Or left wing. It’s what it is.
I was also amused by the supposed left wing anti water charges protests. Anybody I knew on that was self employed and right wing economically. It was, after all, an anti tax demo.
If you wanted to put anti lockdown sentiment into a box it would be generic anti government.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: ». If you wanted to put anti lockdown sentiment into a box it would be generic anti government.
Would these people not be more simply put in a box labelled ' generic anti'.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »I've literally never seen anyone in a position of power in Ireland claim that trouble being caused at a left-leaning gathering was due to right-wing, false-flag, agents provocateurs. Like, never. You seem to be saying this is a regular thing, but I've honestly never come across it.
There are videos of groups of idiots at the top of Grafton street promising to 'wreck the place' before anything happened with regards to the fireworks. And they're only the ones that were stupid enough to publish it. There were more troublemakers there than you're letting on, let's be honest.
Also, anyone bringing a child in a buggy up to the front lines of such a protest should be charged with endangering that child. You're making the point that the Guards were agressive and violent, and presumably shouldn't have charged towards the crowd because there were kids present. Do me a favour, tell us where you work and I'll pop in with a toddler and a load of fireworks, start shooting them at your face while you're trying to do your job. We'll see how quickly you're screaming for a baton charge then.
It depends. Mostly on how you act on those thoughts. If you're, say, an actress in a series produced by the largest Children's entertainment on the planet, and you come out and say something that could blacken Disney's name, and then get fired for it......you're not being fired for your thoughts. You're being fired for how you acted on those thoughts.
Firing people for their actions is fair game. Firing them for their thoughts that manifest in ways that are contrary to the ethics and morality of the employer or which violate specific clauses in your employment contract is also industry standard. This "thought police" bolloxology is just that, a load of bollocks.
People aren't being fired for their thoughts, though. They're being fired for acting on those thoughts and bringing undue notice on the people who pay their wages. If you're a 'right-winger' and you get fired because there's a photo of you in the paper wearing swastikas and throwing Nazi salutes, then you're not being fired for your thoughts. You're being fired for acting on those thoughts. There is a hugely relevant difference.
I never said that it was going on in Ireland. I also never stated people in positions of power were saying anything.
People on this site have said that far right agitators have been present at left wing events, or BLM events with the intention of causing trouble and it's accepted at face value.
My contention is that any such claims from either side of the political divide are most likely complete and utter nonsense and you'd have to be a moron to believe it.
Your never having come across something is an issue for you.Glazers Out!
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Bryan Dobson revealing his true colours talking with Jim O'Callaghan: "How do we stop future protests, and can we incriminate those who organise them on social media?" Naturally Jim a nodding donkey, "those protests were completely unlawful..."
Autocracy is flavour of the month, leaf out of Putin's playbook.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »Who, in government, would you classify as 'far left' and what have they done that is as abhorrent as the stuff that goes on in the name of the 'far right'?
You know, outright xenophobia and barring people of certain religion or ethnicity, reintroducing the death penalty, promotion of homophobic policies, barring women from access to abortions (even when they are raped), splitting people open with sticks wrapped in Irish flags, calling anyone who opposes you as paedophile sympathisers and setting the dogs on them, calling for the deportation of anyone who's Irish but doesn't look like it, equating homosexuality with paedophilia......that sorta thing.
I don’t know what country you are living in, or what party represents any or all of that, or what it has to do with anti lockdown protests. I mean the lockdown is closing borders, for instance, so therefore it is banning most immigrants. A call to close the borders in Jan 2019 as they have been closed by now would be far right, now it’s liberal. And now the guys who want to end lockdown and open the borders are far right. These categories are just moral hysteria.
Anti government or anti lockdown protests, although ill conceived, are not far right. They exist because that view, that lockdown has run its course, is not represented by any political party (the left has jumped on zero covid) and therefore politics moves to the streets.
The longer lockdown goes on the more this view will become acceptable. Once the vulnerable are vaccinated there will be an even greater push to open up. Lots of people are unemployed or under employed, lots of businesses shuttered. They will protest.0 -
I think Idi Amin Dada said it best: “There is freedom of speech, but I cannot guarantee freedom after speech.”Deleted User wrote: »Bryan Dobson revealing his true colours talking with Jim O'Callaghan: "How do we stop future protests, and can we incriminate those who organise them on social media?" Naturally Jim a nodding donkey, "those protests were completely unlawful..."
Autocracy is flavour of the month, leaf out of Putin's playbook.0 -
More people in gainful employment in the group arrested than initially expected0
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suicide_circus wrote: »More people in gainful employment in the group arrested than initially expected
Hush now, that will unsettle those clinging tenaciously to their lazy stereotypes.0 -
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[Deleted User] wrote: »Bryan Dobson revealing his true colours talking with Jim O'Callaghan: "How do we stop future protests, and can we incriminate those who organise them on social media?" Naturally Jim a nodding donkey, "those protests were completely unlawful..."
Autocracy is flavour of the month, leaf out of Putin's playbook.
It’s like Prague 1956. How do we stop the illegal protests of the fascists and nationalists opposed to our glorious communist lockdowns*.
* I jest. The communists didn’t have lockdowns in the Hungarian spring. They had curfews.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »They aren’t matching against covid. It’s not an awareness march.
So if the march is not to make the government AWARE of peoples disgust at lockdown what was it for ?0 -
suicide_circus wrote: »More people in gainful employment in the group arrested than initially expected
Shush...you only upset some fragile minds when their made up narrative from earlier is exposed as horsesh1t
I doubt any of them will correct their inaccurate assertions.0 -
yourdeadwright wrote: »So if the march is not to make the government AWARE of peoples disgust at lockdown what was it for ?
It’s an anti lockdown protest.0 -
I never said that it was going on in Ireland. I also never stated people in positions of power were saying anything.
People on this site have said that far right agitators have been present at left wing events, or BLM events with the intention of causing trouble and it's accepted at face value.
My contention is that any such claims from either side of the political divide are most likely complete and utter nonsense and you'd have to be a moron to believe it.
Your never having come across something is an issue for you.
We're in a thread about right wing extremism, where the IRISH Garda Commissioner falsely labelled the perpetrators of recent events IN IRELAND as left wing extremists. You said"any time something similar happens at a left wing protest....we're supposed to believe it's actually being carried out by a far right activist trying to discredit the protest they're at."
Anybody with a reasonable grasp on the English language would infer that you were talking about left wing protests IN IRELAND and people of power IN IRELAND (such as the highest ranking Garda in the land) falsely labelling the perpetrators.
Any mix-up in how that post was interpreted is an issue for you.0 -
I'll tell you why:
1. The virus will continue to mutate, mutations affect the virus's antigenic profile which means that as the virus mutates, the current vaccines may not work at all.
2. The Government and NPHET have been scoring successive own goals for weeks and have failed to develop a plan that protects both the economy and the people. What is the plan if the current round of vaccines fail? We don't have one.
3. The whole point of the lockdown is to protect the Health Service. This is the same health service that has been ran into the ground by successive governments.
4. Locking the population away to protect a small vulnerable portion of the population is not a viable long term strategy. While protecting lives should be at the forefront of our Covid policies, the economy can not be forgotten about. Many businesses will close permanently as a result of these restrictions. Legislation has also been passed with no public mandate or consultation. Someone will have to pay the costs of these measures and knowing our weak government, the majority of the tab will be passed to our IT payers and future generations.
5. Where is the contingency plan if the vaccine doesn't work? Why are we sitting on our hands with a wait and see approach when you consider:
- The public are becoming increasingly frustrated with the messaging from NPHET and the Government
- We have the toughest restrictions in Europe yet have the highest death rates in nursing homes
- NPHET and the Government blaming the public when it is very clear that the management of this pandemic has been a complete shambles from the start and an inquiry is needed into the deaths in our nursing homes and how these decisions have been made
The problem for some people is that NPHET and the Government are leading us into perpetual lockdown because there is no alternative plan.
Some people may not like or understand why people are protesting but they also need to accept that this is a democracy and people should be allowed to protest if they wish. We will go down a dangerous path if we start condemning people for expressing their opinion in public in the form of a protest, particularly considering the government and NPHET and have absolutely no mandate for their actions to date.
My personal prediction is that if there isn't a tangible end in sight in the next few weeks we will see way more protests which will descend into more and more violence.
Everyone should just hope that the vaccine works because Micheal Martin, Leo Varadkar, Eamon Ryan, Tony Holohan etc. are the last people I want making decisions for the country. Perhaps if people don't want people protesting then they should stop voting for the same parties that just go from crisis-to-crisis, instead of showing actual leadership and planning. For the record, I wouldn't be too keen on any of the alternatives either.
What part of the march changes any of the above ?
Do you dispute that FACT that a large gathering like that i will only help the virus spread ?
So again what part of the march does more good than harm ?
March if you like but at the same time understand the vast majority of the population will not apricate your uneducated choices .0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Who, in government, would you classify as 'far left' and what have they done that is as abhorrent as the stuff that goes on in the name of the 'far right'?
You know, outright xenophobia and barring people of certain religion or ethnicity, reintroducing the death penalty, promotion of homophobic policies, barring women from access to abortions (even when they are raped), splitting people open with sticks wrapped in Irish flags, calling anyone who opposes you as paedophile sympathisers and setting the dogs on them, calling for the deportation of anyone who's Irish but doesn't look like it, equating homosexuality with paedophilia......that sorta thing.
i said there are ten " far left " TD,s in the dail , not in government
being opposed to abortion does not make someone " far right " , nor does opposing gay marriage but most people who oppose gay marriage dont equate homosexuality with paedophilia so you are cherry picking in order to make a point
as for attacking someone with a stick , do you think no far left group ever did that ?
the far left espouses the nationalising of private property , that to me is abhorrent , they espouse open borders , that is also abhorrent to me , they espouse silencing and prosecuting people who hold opinions they deem to be offensive ( hate speech ) , again abhorrent0 -
Deleted User wrote: »It’s an anti lockdown protest.
Yes it sure is to make the government AWARE of the displeasure of lockdown
So its is there fore an AWARNESS march ,
Honestly the more you discuss it with pro march people the more you understand what type of people your dealing with ,0 -
Deleted User wrote: »I don’t know what country you are living in, or what party represents any or all of that, or what it has to do with anti lockdown protests. I mean the lockdown is closing borders, for instance, so therefore it is banning most immigrants.
Ireland. I'm living in Ireland and those views are being spouted by the self-proclaimed far-right brigade, here, in Ireland, as recently as this week.
I'm asking that poster who claims there is "an issue with the rise of the far left" who they would classify as "far left" and which policies they are extolling that are remotely as harmful as the policies I've listed which belong to the "far right".0 -
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paw patrol wrote: »Shush...you only upset some fragile minds when their made up narrative from earlier is exposed as horsesh1t
I doubt any of them will correct their inaccurate assertions.
Get with the programme, Its acceptable to generalise about Irish people but dont dare do it about anyone else.0
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This discussion has been closed.
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