Right wing extremist group behind Dublin Protest say Gardai

stefanovich

biko wrote: »

As it happens Ireland isn't USA.

The main body of counter-terrorism legislation in Ireland is the Offences against the State Acts 1939-1998.

These Acts were introduced and have been primarily used to counter the threat posed by the IRA.

The Act criminalises many actions deemed detrimental to state security. An organisation can be made subject to a suppression order under the act, after which being a member of or directing the activities of such an unlawful organisation becomes an offence.

The opinion of a senior Garda can be admitted as prima facie evidence of membership.

So are they looking to get Renua and IFP banned before an election? Anything right of centre appears to be classed as far right these days.

Really that one person instigating a violent confrontation reeks of the antifa false flag MO.

expectationlost

MrStuffins wrote: »

Far-right voters does not equal far-right supporters

because they don't vote?

MrStuffins

stefanovich wrote: »

Really that one person instigating a violent confrontation reeks of the antifa false flag MO.

Anything else you say automatically gets discredited when you post conspiratorial rubbish like this.

It's grand if you really think this, but just know that everyone else is thinking "We can't take this guy's opinions serious".

Well, maybe not everyone. I'm sure the lad who tried to say the protester was aiming the firework in the air would agree with you.

stefanovich

expectationlost wrote: »

because they don't vote?

Right wing people are stupid according to some. It used to be poor people until the "elite" realised virtue signalling works better.

Muahahaha

nullzero wrote: »

Let's look at things we can prove.

The National Party are the only far right part in the country.

In last years General election they received 4773 votes equating to 0.2% of all ballots cast.

As well respected as Mark Tighe may be, there is a deficit of 95,227 votes there.
People may have some connection with them online on social media platforms, they may not all be in the Irish state, something isn't computing alright, but to jump to a conclusion that the far right has 100,000 active supporters who will vote for the National Party in the next election doesn't make any sense.

Where did I make any point about the National Party? You are shoehorning in an argument that was never made.

I simply said Mark Tighe has been tracking far right groups on Facebook for 6 months now and he reported that the memberships of these groups top 100,000 people. You are claiming the far right is not on the rise and called it "paranoid fantasy" yet Mark Tighe (and others) say it is very much real and they've been tracking it for months now. Is he wrong?

stefanovich

MrStuffins wrote: »

Anything else you say automatically gets discredited when you post conspiratorial rubbish like this.

It's grand if you really think this, but just know that everyone else is thinking "We can't take this guy's opinions serious".

Well, maybe not everyone. I'm sure the lad who tried to say the protester was aiming the firework in the air would agree with you.

It's not conspiratorial rubbish there's piles of evidence of antifa organising online and posing as right wing.

Acosta

Invidious wrote: »

Do you appreciate how quickly mass gatherings of thousands of unmasked people can turn 40 cases into 700 cases?

Yes, which is why I was against it. They were masked though, unlike the crowd on Saturday. And it didn't lead do any surge in cases unless I'm mistaken.

stefanovich

stefanovich wrote: »

Right wing people are stupid according to some. It used to be poor people until the "elite" realised virtue signalling works better.

In fairness, as a person who comes across as far right, you're not coming as particularly intelligent when you're claiming that the guy up on criminal charges is a "false flag" by anti-fa... Not backed up by the Gardai etc btw so conspiratorial nonsense.

MrStuffins

stefanovich wrote: »

It's not conspiratorial rubbish.......

To gather all of the evidence in this scenario and to still think that this chap was an "Antifa False Flag"

Yes, yes it is conspiratorial rubbish!

Again, think that all you want. But just know that it diminishes your opinions on everything and anything else.

chancer12

seamus wrote: »

It'll go quiet in the media now.

Jake Merriman is in some serious ****. The district court judge has ruled the offence too serious to be dealt with by him so it'll go to the circuit or criminal court now to be tried.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0303/1200561-dublin-protest-courts/

Clearly the Judge disagrees with the assessment of some that he was just harmlessly setting off fireworks.

He's in receipt of the Covid payment and now gets free legal aid. Too much time on his hands and money to spend. A couple of weeks cleaning a Covid ward might give him a different perspective and realise what real suffering is

nullzero

Muahahaha wrote: »

Where did I make any point about the National Party? You are shoehorning in an argument that was never made.

I simply said Mark Tighe has been tracking far right groups on Facebook for 6 months now and he reported that the memberships of these groups top 100,000 people. You are claiming the far right is not on the rise and called it "paranoid fantasy" yet Mark Tighe (and others) say it is very much real and they've been tracking it for months now. Is he wrong?

Well what real world agent pushes far right ideas into the political consciousness then?

It is hardly shoe Horning in an argument when the group I'm introducing into the discussion are the only far right political party in the Irish state.
If that doesn't suit you, or more to the point the fact the the NP received a level of support in the last election that calls into question the veracity of the argument you're putting forward it's too bad.

The National Party are the only far right party in the state and their election result last year was pitiful. What other metric do we use to put the notion of the far right being on the rise to the test?

If people are connecting with far right groups online to the tune of 100,000 people but virtually none of them cast a ballot for the only far right party in the state why should we believe the notion of what Mark Tighe is proposing?

I have no issue with these groups being monitored but when push came to shove last year the support they supposedly have didn't materialise as votes.

Are all of these 100,000 people residents of this country? Why did they not use their right to vote to cast more than 0.2% of last years General election ballots?

Whenever there is scare mongering about far left groups people are told they're going over the top. When it's directed at the far right we're always a hop skip and a jump from a fascist dictatorship.

nullzero

MrStuffins wrote: »

Far-right voters does not equal far-right supporters

What good is support if it doesn't result in votes?

MrStuffins

nullzero wrote: »

If people are connecting with far right groups online to the tune of 100,000 people but virtually none of them cast a ballot for the only far right party in the state why should we believe the notion of what Mark Tighe is proposing?

He's not talking about the general election. The notion he is putting forward is that there is a rise in support for far-right ideas, which is evidenced by the rise in numbers in these online echo-chambers.

The notion is self-evident.

mariaalice

Larry Goyman wrote: »

So this was the mighty Irish far-right? A few head bangers fighting with the guards?

IT'S LITERALLY GERMANY IN THE 1930s!!!@!!

Again permission, they give permission to those who would not say it in public nor would they go on a protest but they believe it and support the views and that is the danger.

nullzero

MrStuffins wrote: »

He's not talking about the general election. The notion he is putting forward is that there is a rise in support for far-right ideas, which is evidenced by the rise in numbers in these online echo-chambers.

The notion is self-evident.

He's not talking about the general election because it makes a mockery of his argument.
You can't just discount facts because they don't suit your narrative.

An inconvenient truth in the fight to have us all believe we're heading down the rabbit hole of a fascist regime in Ireland.

100,000 people supposedly linked to these groups online. 4773 votes cast for the only real world representatives of that ideology.

It doesn't add up.

Quantum Baloney

Muahahaha wrote: »

Do you have a source for this or is it just opinion? Because I listened to Mark Tighe (who is a well respected journalist) and he said he has been tracking the Irish far right online for 6 months now. He reported than the main Facebook groups that are run by the Irish far right now have membership that tops 100,000 people. Yet you describe the rise of the Irish far right as "paranoid fantasy"? Which must mean Mark Tighe is imagining things despite tracking them online for the last six months Does not compute.

Just because it sends a tingle down your spine to imagine your ideological enemy organising in the shadows doesn't make it so. Membership that tops 100,000 people? How does that compare to the membership of Sin Fein, or FF, or PBP or any other group?

From what I have been able to discern there was a much wider spectrum of people at the protest on Saturday than is presented by RTE, and of course acknowledgment of that fact would be very dangerous for the politicians and media personalities that have been sowing fear and continuing to cash their pay cheques undisturbed this last year.

mariaalice

nullzero wrote: »

He's not talking about the general election because it makes a mockery of his argument.
You can't just discount facts because they don't suit your narrative.

An inconvenient truth in the fight to have us all believe we're heading down the rabbit hole of a fascist regime in Ireland.

100,000 people supposedly linked to these groups online. 4773 votes cast for the only real world representatives of that ideology.

It doesn't add up.

They are never going to get elected but their existence put pressure on existing political parties and puts their ideology out there.

They have already had one effect Irish nationalism use to be perfectly normal if a slightly contradictory set of beliefs now its becomes suspect and associated with the loones.

nullzero

mariaalice wrote: »

They are never going to get elected but their existence put pressure on existing political parties and puts their ideology out there.

They have already had one effect Irish nationalism use to be perfectly normal if a slightly contradictory set of beliefs now its becomes suspect and associated with the loones.

Do you believe that established political parties will adopt the beliefs of the far right?

As for Irish nationalism being sullied by far right groups, you must be joking right?

mariaalice

nullzero wrote: »

Do you believe that established political parties will adopt the beliefs of the far right?

As for Irish nationalism being sullied by far right groups, you must be joking right?

No why would I be joking, it's not that Irish nationalism has a far-right element it's more that the far-right has hijacked the cultural discourse of nationalism and because of that making nationalism a bit suspect.

juno10353

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/herald/news/courts/dad-jailed-for-bid-to-steal-fire-engine-sat-nav-29654670.html

Jake Merriman and fire engine

nullzero

mariaalice wrote: »

No why would I be joking, it's not that Irish nationalism has a far-right element it's more that the far-right has hijacked the cultural discourse of nationalism and because of that making nationalism a bit suspect.

Nationalism has always (in the modern context) always been a bit suspect as it is most closely linked with Sinn Fein. I take it no further discussion is required?

stefanovich

Deleted User wrote: »

In fairness, as a person who comes across as far right, you're not coming as particularly intelligent when you're claiming that the guy up on criminal charges is a "false flag" by anti-fa... Not backed up by the Gardai etc btw so conspiratorial nonsense.

I'm far right? I think you are a comedian.

stefanovich

nullzero wrote: »

Nationalism has always (in the modern context) always been a bit suspect as it is most closely linked with Sinn Fein. I take it no further discussion is required?

The IRA were mostly peaceful.:pac:

stefanovich

mariaalice wrote: »

No why would I be joking, it's not that Irish nationalism has a far-right element it's more that the far-right has hijacked the cultural discourse of nationalism and because of that making nationalism a bit suspect.

The National Party would be as close to far right as we have in this country. I do not like them at all. I still prefer them to SINN FEIN whose membership still supports the actions of the IRA and still has "former" IRA members in it who like singing up the ra in the pub.

Salvation Tambourine

I have read a lot of this thread, not all of it, so sorry if this has been answered over and over. What was specifically 'far right' about the protest? I associate 'far right' with racism, homophobia and hatred of people different to them. The videos I saw display none of that. It's could be a simple question with a complex answer depending on your views of the 'far right'.

I watched a TD refer to 'racism', 'hatred' and 'prejudice'. He said "When you grew up in London in the 1970s and you're part of the London Irish community, whenever we came out to march for the Birmingham Six or the Guilford Four, we had to face down the far right and now they are here on Grafton Street last Saturday". I just don't see the similarities.

I am not a particularly politically knowledgeable person so I hope someone can explain it in basic terms. Cheers.

mariaalice

nullzero wrote: »

Nationalism has always (in the modern context) always been a bit suspect as it is most closely linked with Sinn Fein. I take it no further discussion is required?

You are mixing up republicism with nationalism, nationalism is a different set of ideas.

stefanovich

Nokotan wrote: »

I have read a lot of this thread, not all of it, so sorry if this has been answered over and over. What was specifically 'far right' about the protest? I associate 'far right' with racism, homophobia and hatred of people different to them. The videos I saw display none of that. It's could be a simple question with a complex answer depending on your views of the 'far right'.

I watched a TD refer to 'racism', 'hatred' and 'prejudice'. He said "When you grew up in London in the 1970s and you're part of the London Irish community, whenever we came out to march for the Birmingham Six or the Guilford Four, we had to face down the far right and now they are here on Grafton Street last Saturday". I just don't see the similarities.

I am not a particularly politically knowledgeable person so I hope someone can explain it in basic terms. Cheers.

Most of the evidence of recent political violence has been from the far left.

People will vote Sinn Fein and then complain about "far right violence".

They'll also excuse antifa and openly support them even though they identify as left wing.

Lots of moderate people are okay with "nazis" getting punched.

Someone had mentioned the national party - I have seen some of their posts on twitter which seem very hateful and I could not vote for them.

I'm still not discounting the antifa false flag until proven otherwise based on what they have done in the past.

Invidious

Muahahaha wrote: »

I simply said Mark Tighe has been tracking far right groups on Facebook for 6 months now and he reported that the memberships of these groups top 100,000 people. You are claiming the far right is not on the rise and called it "paranoid fantasy" yet Mark Tighe (and others) say it is very much real and they've been tracking it for months now. Is he wrong?

I'd love to know Tighe's methodology for producing what looks to me like a wildly overinflated estimate.

The National Party received 4,773 first-preference votes in last year's elections. Only a minority of those voters could legitimately be classified as "far right," since the National Party also represents other interests (e.g., conservative Catholics, Euroskeptics, and others).

An estimated 300 people attended the anti-lockdown protest. Again, not all of those could be classified as "far right," by any means.

And yet we're expected to believe that over 100,000 people support the far right in Ireland? That stretches all credibility.

stefanovich

mariaalice wrote: »

You are mixing up republicism with nationalism, nationalism is a different set of ideas.

Republicanism means setting off nailbombs?
Nationalism means saying things that are rude?

EmmetSpiceland

Do right wingers not know they’re right wingers? It’s the same when a racist on here gets “called out” on their racism and they start screaming blue murder demanding mods take action.