Penalty points on a learner permit

Spook_ie

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Yes I agree & lesson learned, I wont do it again but as a learner driver who made a mistake, that mistake will be on my license for 3 years, long after im a learner and no damage was caused. If they had to slam on the breaks or I drove out right infront of them id understand as thats dangerous driving but those situations didnt happen.

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but IMO the qualified driver sitting with you should be sharing the blame, I'm surprised they let them off without so much as a word, in my book if you deserve a fine then they deserve a fine too.

Isambard

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Sounds like you went to go when it was safe, stalled, then continued the maneuver when it wasn't safe. You then had the bad luck to encounter a Guard in a bad mood. They may possibly have had a change of heart when they got back to the station so don't worry until the paper work actually arrives.

fully agree. Everyone has to learn and you'd think they'd cut you some slack. I wasn't there though, the Gard was.

Airyfairy12

Thanks everyone, I rang the garda station this morning, the guard I was speaking to was a bit taken aback by the charge I received and offered to give me the name of the guard I was dealing with. Unfortunately she hadn't put her details into the file yet, he asked me to describe what she looked like but she was wearing a mask. He seemed quite interested to know who this guard was but as I couldnt describe her he couldnt help me. I'll call back in a week or two and hopefully by then she will have put her details into the system.
I was also speaking to a garda friend/acquaintance who told me that in such a case were someone drives out onto the road with a car already on the main road but causes no damage or harm and considering im a learner driver with L plates visible and a fully licensed driver in the car, for a first offence a warning should be given. She said I shouldnt get a double fine for being a learner either.
I was already in 3rd, going into 4th gear by the time the guards caught up with me so there's no way I was obstructing them when I drove onto the road.
I rang the ombudsmen and was advised to leave a complaint so as soon a I get the name of the garda I was dealing with and the guard who stayed in the car, ill be making a complaint and hopefully have the penalty points removed atleast.

Samuel T. Cogley

Ah here as they say. This isn't a case for GSOC. If anything a GSOC complaint will make her double down on the points.

Tippman24

You do not get double points. What you have is that the numbers of points that accrue on your licence with a possible suspension from driving are less. Twelve points means suspension if you have a full Driving Licence but i think (?) it is seven if on a learner permit.

Witcher

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Thanks everyone, I rang the garda station this morning, the guard I was speaking to was a bit taken aback by the charge I received and offered to give me the name of the guard I was dealing with. Unfortunately she hadn't put her details into the file yet, he asked me to describe what she looked like but she was wearing a mask. He seemed quite interested to know who this guard was but as I couldnt describe her he couldnt help me. I'll call back in a week or two and hopefully by then she will have put her details into the system.
I was also speaking to a garda friend/acquaintance who told me that in such a case were someone drives out onto the road with a car already on the main road but causes no damage or harm and considering im a learner driver with L plates visible and a fully licensed driver in the car, for a first offence a warning should be given. She said I shouldnt get a double fine for being a learner either.
I was already in 3rd, going into 4th gear by the time the guards caught up with me so there's no way I was obstructing them when I drove onto the road.
I rang the ombudsmen and was advised to leave a complaint so as soon a I get the name of the garda I was dealing with and the guard who stayed in the car, ill be making a complaint and hopefully have the penalty points removed atleast.

There's no 'should give a warning' rule, it's completely at the member's discretion. Furthermore, how would they know it's your first offence or your 10th?

You don't seem to understand that 'I didn't cause any accident or harm' is not a get out of jail free card. You don't have to injure anyone or cause an accident to be driving like a cock. In reprimanding you for your driving the Garda is attempting to stop that happening in future.

A GSOC complaint will not see the FCPN being quashed as the Ombudsman wasn't there to observe your manner of driving and they have nothing to go on bar the word of a learner driver.

Turbohymac

Hi op.
I'm not so sure that you're dealing with this correctly..from experience pulling out onto the main road in front of any oncoming car and now saying you couldn't have obstructed them cos you were going from third gear into fourth when they pulled you over..wow this means that you were possibly only traveling at 30/40 km per hour..
And being honest the gardai could easily be doing 120km even if that main road was a 100 km zone..
This means their car would be eating up 50to 60 meters of road every second..
I'm not sure how other posters will now respond to your actions today.
But if you had read back through the many helpful posts to your initial query.
Then I honestly think you should be spending time looking up a good driving instructor. And not drive with any other full driver until you get more lessons.
And please admit to your mistakes as a new learner driver in which you also clearly claim to suffer from nervousness..
Don't dig yourself into a deeper hole ..
Everything you mention clearly indicates that you pulled out after stalling the car and having to restart this all took time..then obstructed the police car as you couldn't have been doing anything more than 40km in third gear..
Please rethink..your actions
The gardai were correct here to take action..I don't think we're getting the honest full story either

frozenfrozen

forget the gsoc part and try to deescalate. You just want there to be no fine and points. You wouldn't have made a thread if you had just got a bollocking from a garda so get it back to that point and forget about it

garv123

Sounds like she was in bad form, gave you a telling off and didnt fill out any paper work.

I reckon you'll hear nothing more about it.

Henry Ford III

It's the inconsistency that's the thing here.

OP has gone from protesting innocence, to admitting guilt, and back again.

Witcher

garv123 wrote: »

Sounds like she was in bad form, gave you a telling off and didnt fill out any paper work.

I reckon you'll hear nothing more about it.

Garda has 107 days after the incident to issue the FCPN.

sirmixalot

garv123 wrote: »

Sounds like she was in bad form, gave you a telling off and didnt fill out any paper work.

I reckon you'll hear nothing more about it.

THIS

Airyfairy12

Turbohymac wrote: »

Hi op.
I'm not so sure that you're dealing with this correctly..from experience pulling out onto the main road in front of any oncoming car and now saying you couldn't have obstructed them cos you were going from third gear into fourth when they pulled you over..wow this means that you were possibly only traveling at 30/40 km per hour..
And being honest the gardai could easily be doing 120km even if that main road was a 100 km zone..
This means their car would be eating up 50to 60 meters of road every second..
I'm not sure how other posters will now respond to your actions today.
But if you had read back through the many helpful posts to your initial query.
Then I honestly think you should be spending time looking up a good driving instructor. And not drive with any other full driver until you get more lessons.
And please admit to your mistakes as a new learner driver in which you also clearly claim to suffer from nervousness..
Don't dig yourself into a deeper hole ..
Everything you mention clearly indicates that you pulled out after stalling the car and having to restart this all took time..then obstructed the police car as you couldn't have been doing anything more than 40km in third gear..
Please rethink..your actions
The gardai were correct here to take action..I don't think we're getting the honest full story either

Thanks, im not debating any of that, what im disputing is the severity of the punishment. 3 points & a double fine on a quiet rural area when I had both L plates on display and a fully licensed driver in the car.

Witcher

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Thanks, im not debating any of that, what im disputing is the severity of the punishment. 3 points & a double fine on a quiet rural area when I had both L plates on display and a fully licensed driver in the car. A warning or fine or even one penalty point and I would have accepted it and moved on but 3 and a double fine is too much.

The Garda doesn't decide how many points are given, they can't choose to give you one point if the offence is three.

Re-assess your driving and learn from it.

ohnonotgmail

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Thanks everyone, I rang the garda station this morning, the guard I was speaking to was a bit taken aback by the charge I received and offered to give me the name of the guard I was dealing with. Unfortunately she hadn't put her details into the file yet, he asked me to describe what she looked like but she was wearing a mask. He seemed quite interested to know who this guard was but as I couldnt describe her he couldnt help me. I'll call back in a week or two and hopefully by then she will have put her details into the system.
I was also speaking to a garda friend/acquaintance who told me that in such a case were someone drives out onto the road with a car already on the main road but causes no damage or harm and considering im a learner driver with L plates visible and a fully licensed driver in the car, for a first offence a warning should be given. She said I shouldnt get a double fine for being a learner either.
I was already in 3rd, going into 4th gear by the time the guards caught up with me so there's no way I was obstructing them when I drove onto the road.
I rang the ombudsmen and was advised to leave a complaint so as soon a I get the name of the garda I was dealing with and the guard who stayed in the car, ill be making a complaint and hopefully have the penalty points removed atleast.

if you had only just got it into 4th then the guards probably did have to brake. If they did have to brake then you did not yield properly. Forget about making a complaint. GSOC will do nothing with it. The garda has discretion and GSOC will not tell them they don't.

sirmixalot

Witcher wrote: »

The Garda doesn't decide how many points are given, they can't choose to give you one point if the offence is three.

Re-assess your driving and learn from it.

Not true, I got 3 for speeding which he told me I'd get.

Witcher

sirmixalot wrote: »

Not true, I got 3 for speeding which he told me I'd get.

Because it is three points for speeding....

sirmixalot

Witcher wrote: »

Because it is three points for speeding....

Read what you wrote then read my reply to it.

The Guards do decide what points are given. You are saying they don't which is untrue.

frozenfrozen

sirmixalot wrote: »

Read what you wrote then read my reply to it.

The Guards do decide what points are given. You are saying they don't which is untrue.

so a guard can choose to give someone 69 points for speeding?

Airyfairy12

frozenfrozen wrote: »

so a guard can choose to give someone 69 points for speeding?

I was told that its at the discretion of the guard. Obviously theres a limit on how many points they can give.

Mjolnir

sirmixalot wrote: »

Read what you wrote then read my reply to it.

The Guards do decide what points are given. You are saying they don't which is untrue.

No they don't the penalty for Speeding if the guard doesn't let you off with a warning is 3 points.
The guard merely told you what to expect they most certainly didn't decide that 3 is an appropriate amount of points, just that they would cite you and that's the punishment.
A guard cannot decide what points you get in terms of the penalty just whether or not to penalise you.

ohnonotgmail

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I was told that its at the discretion of the guard. Obviously theres a limit on how many points they can give.

the points are determined by the offence. the guard has no control over how many points you receive.

Mjolnir

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I was told that its at the discretion of the guard. Obviously theres a limit on how many points they can give.

The discretion is to cite you for an offence or let you off with a warning using their discretion.

Just to add you can most certainly lose your licence in one instance should the offences add up.

Witcher

sirmixalot wrote: »

Read what you wrote then read my reply to it.

The Guards do decide what points are given. You are saying they don't which is untrue.

You're embarassing yourself here. There are fixed points for offences, that's why they're called fixed charge penalty notices.

Witcher

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I was told that its at the discretion of the guard. Obviously theres a limit on how many points they can give.

The discretion is in whether or not to give the ticket at all, if they decide to give it then it's a fixed penalty of X points and X fine or just X fine depending on the offence.

The Garda has no control over how many points are given, and don't be believing any fairy stories that they do:rolleyes: