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Difference between People before Profit and Solidarity

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13

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    #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    blanch152 wrote: »
    So long as it is under his leadership.

    Remember when Paul Murphy told poor working class people not to pay their property tax, but then he went on to pay his own?

    I 'member.

    Was that an example of the solidarity he speaks so much about?


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    #63
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Remember when Paul Murphy told poor working class people not to pay their property tax, but then he went on to pay his own?

    I 'member.

    Was that an example of the solidarity he speaks so much about?

    But wasn't his partner or someone who paid it? Or a direct debit he forgot to cancel?

    There was a mealy-mouthed excuse.


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    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    blanch152 wrote: »
    But wasn't his partner or someone who paid it? Or a direct debit he forgot to cancel?

    There was a mealy-mouthed excuse.

    Of course there was an excuse. Anything but him being a hypocrite.


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    #65
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,881 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    blanch152 wrote: »
    But wasn't his partner or someone who paid it? Or a direct debit he forgot to cancel?

    There was a mealy-mouthed excuse.
    He sold his house and paid it then as he knew he would have to because you can't sell a property with the tax outstanding.
    Do as I say, not as I do!


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    #66
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    At the end of that article about Paul Murphy joining PBP in yesterday's Independent they seemed to imply that a policy difference between PBP and Solidarity is on the position of whether or not to hold a Border Poll.

    I do recall that although they registered as a single party they held coalition talks separately - which effectively meant that Mick Barry had his own talks since he's the sole representative of Solidarity in the Dáil.

    Seems a bit silly to have a separate party over a single issue but I guess that's basically the situation with Sinn Féin and Aontú.


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    #67
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    He sold his house and paid it then as he knew he would have to because you can't sell a property with the tax outstanding.
    Do as I say, not as I do!

    You're right, I had forgotten that.

    And he made a load of money on the sale too.


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    #68
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,881 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    blanch152 wrote: »
    You're right, I had forgotten that.

    And he made a load of money on the sale too.
    Aah, you're too cynical - surely he shared those capitalist gains with his comrades?


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    #69
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,724 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    People have been forced to pay, that’s the reality. I doesn’t mean we’re not still opposed to local property tax, but there is no longer a mass boycott.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/paul-murphy-paid-his-property-tax-2447371-Nov2015/

    Says it all really.


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    #70
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tabnabs wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/paul-murphy-paid-his-property-tax-2447371-Nov2015/

    Says it all really.

    It's so strange that a socialist is against taxing landowners.


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    #71
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    So did Paul Murphy throw in the towel on his Rise project?


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    #72
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's so strange that a socialist is against taxing landowners.

    The Irish left isn't opposed to property tax, they're opposed to property tax on one's primary residence / home. Even Labour was opposed to this before they sold their souls in 2011.

    They're right to be, as far as I'm concerned. Someone who's paid for their house and paid off any mortgage it may have incurred shouldn't have to keep paying an annual fee every year for the privilege of living in it.


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    #73
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    The Irish left isn't opposed to property tax, they're opposed to property tax on one's primary residence / home. Even Labour was opposed to this before they sold their souls in 2011.

    They're right to be, as far as I'm concerned. Someone who's paid for their house and paid off any mortgage it may have incurred shouldn't have to keep paying an annual fee every year for the privilege of living in it.

    So a socialist is against property tax for landowners, got it.


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    #74
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So a socialist is against property tax for landowners, got it.

    The left opposes the commodification of housing, so obviously within that belief system the roof over one's head shouldn't be considered an "asset". That's why property tax on one's home is opposed. Tax on literally any other form of property holding is not opposed, and as far as I know never has been.


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    #75
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    The Irish left isn't opposed to property tax, they're opposed to property tax on one's primary residence / home. Even Labour was opposed to this before they sold their souls in 2011.

    This is from 2012, maybe some things have changed.
    https://www.thejournal.ie/party-positions-property-tax-621790-Oct2012/
    SF are in favour of a wealth tax that would tax property above a certain value – all property, not just houses or other building assets but financial as well.

    Socialist Party opposes a property tax on the family home.

    Labour Party supports the introduction of a fair and equitable property tax as a means to broaden our tax base.

    United Left Alliance is opposed to the property tax and is actively involved in the campaign against the Household, Water and Septic tank tax campaign.The Troika want a billion euro from a property tax that would mean a tax of point 5 % of the value of your home.


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    #76
    For Forks Sake
    Registered Users Posts: 11,599 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's so strange that a socialist is against taxing landowners.

    Eco-Socialist seems to be the buzzword these days :rolleyes:


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    #77
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,453 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    One is slightly more irritating that the other.


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    #78
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    For Forks Sake wrote: »
    Eco-Socialist seems to be the buzzword these days :rolleyes:

    Anything but apply the thoughts of Karl Marx it seems.


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    #79
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's so strange that a socialist is against taxing landowners.

    It is bizarre. Irish socialists!!


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    #80
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    blanch152 wrote: »
    It is bizarre. Irish socialists!!

    The "right wing" create new taxes, and the left want to lower them.

    Welcome to Ireland.

    :D


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    #81
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,770 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Remember when Paul Murphy told poor working class people not to pay their property tax, but then he went on to pay his own?

    I 'member.

    Was that an example of the solidarity he speaks so much about?

    He also paid his water charges when living in Brussels.


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    #82
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    He also paid his water charges when living in Brussels.

    In 2015 Dublin City Council (with a hard left majority) voted to lower property tax by 15%, thus reducing the DCC's revenue.

    In 2015, the hard left in Ireland complained that not enough was done to provide for the homeless.

    Who's in charge of providing services to the homeless in Dublin?

    Dublin City Council.


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    #83
    Mike Murdock
    Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭Mike Murdock


    Deleted User wrote: »
    In 2015 Dublin City Council (with a hard left majority) voted to lower property tax by 15%, thus reducing the DCC's revenue.

    In 2015, the hard left in Ireland complained that not enough was done to provide for the homeless.

    Who's in charge of providing services to the homeless in Dublin?

    Dublin City Council.

    When you have brain-trusts like Ruth Coppinger representing the hard left, can you see how easily it is to confuse them?


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    #84
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,770 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Mike Murdock wrote: »
    When you have brain-trusts like Ruth Coppinger representing the hard left, can you see how easily it is to confuse them?

    Poor Ruth these days is reduced to taking pot shots at Josepha Madigan for having the nerve to wear an expensive jacket instead of something engineered from 1970s curtain fabric i presume.


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    #85
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.facebook.com/RiseUpEireann/posts/110911287517053/

    Explains why Paul Murphy abandoned RISE. Someone else uses it too.


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    #86
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Deleted User wrote: »
    In 2015 Dublin City Council (with a hard left majority) voted to lower property tax by 15%, thus reducing the DCC's revenue.

    In 2015, the hard left in Ireland complained that not enough was done to provide for the homeless.

    Who's in charge of providing services to the homeless in Dublin?

    Dublin City Council.

    It's priceless isn't it, and then their supporters on social media, including on here, complain about the gubbermint not doing enough about housing.


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    #87
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Deleted User wrote: »
    In 2015 Dublin City Council (with a hard left majority) voted to lower property tax by 15%, thus reducing the DCC's revenue.

    In 2015, the hard left in Ireland complained that not enough was done to provide for the homeless.

    Who's in charge of providing services to the homeless in Dublin?

    Dublin City Council.

    Yeah about that...
    DUBLIN CITY COUNCIL has been working to bring voids – or empty houses and flats belonging to the council – back into use, with some especially for homeless people.

    But all of the funding for these voids still hasn’t been given to the council by the Department of Environment.
    More than €50 million sought by Dublin City Council to house homeless people and bring empty council houses and flats back into use has yet to be paid, or allocated, by the Department of the Environment.

    The council published its budget for 2015 last November, which included €42 million from central Government to pay for homeless services. In addition it has sought more than €8 million to refurbish vacant housing stock.

    However, to date no money has been released to the council, and the department has not yet agreed to pay the amount sought.

    Just what is it people think the government are responsible for?

    This would be were youse tell us it's all chancers anyway :rolleyes:

    FYI: DCC in 2015 had 5 PBP and 0 Solidarity councilors. But sure go on...


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    #88
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    James Brown wrote: »
    Yeah about that...





    Just what is it people think the government are responsible for?

    This would be were youse tell us it's all chancers anyway :rolleyes:

    FYI: DCC in 2015 had 5 PBP and 0 Solidarity councilors. But sure go on...

    You didn't address my point at all. I'll give you one more go at it. Another red herring and I'll ignore you.


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    #89
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You didn't address my point at all. I'll give you one more go at it. Another red herring and I'll ignore you.

    You compared the two. You said they lowered LPT, they did. What would you like me to add? Thanks to FG the public were covering the bill for chancers, likely home owners needed a hand lest we saw more homeless.
    You said they were saying there wasn't enough being done for the homeless. You said they were responsible for the homeless.
    I showed they sought funding from government and it wasn't forthcoming.
    I also stated that as this is a PBP/Solidarity thread, only 5 councilors were PBP and none solidarity.
    So what's throwing you off red herring wise?


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    #90
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    James Brown wrote: »
    You compared the two. You said they lowered LPT, they did.

    Ok, we're in agreement.

    James Brown wrote: »
    . You said they were responsible for the homeless.

    Dublin City Council are (in Dublin), therefore the councillors are.
    James Brown wrote: »
    .
    I showed they sought funding and it wasn't forthcoming.

    Why didn't they vote against the proposition to lower property tax, then? They cut off their own funding. Do you want to know why they didn't? Because the homeless don't vote, homeowners do. Great socialisming, there.
    James Brown wrote: »
    .
    I also stated that as this is a PBP/Solidarity thread, only 5 councilors were PBP and none solidarity.

    Fair enough, it's possible I forgot a fact I knew from six years ago.
    James Brown wrote: »
    .
    So what's throwing you off red herring wise?

    The heroic call for funding when they were cutting their own funding. They voted to remove a major source of revenue that could have gone to homeless services. Even if they couldn't win the vote, why didn't they kick up a fuss like they always do over everything?

    Oh, because of homeowning voters. Marx would be proud.


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    #91
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ...
    Why didn't they vote against the proposition to lower property tax, then? They cut off their own funding. Do you want to know why they didn't? Because the homeless don't vote, homeowners do. Great socialisming, there.

    I would assume they two issues were dealt with in regard to those affected; help out home owners, assist the homeless. Why should one be penalised to help the other? It's a balancing act.

    Fair enough, it's possible I forgot a fact I knew from six years ago.

    You chose to cite 2015 as an example. I had to google that info.
    The heroic call for funding when they were cutting their own funding. They voted to remove a major source of revenue that could have gone to homeless services. Even if they couldn't win the vote, why didn't they kick up a fuss like they always do over everything?

    Remove is exaggeration. They voted to lower it by 15% and this is LPT we are talking not funds for the homeless. I was led to believe LPT was for upkeep of local area infrastructure? Why is it 100% for the homeless, just for this discussion?

    Seems you were trying to move a PBP/Solidarity thread to a 'hard left' thread when Solidarity weren't even on DCC in 2015 and PBP only had 5 seats. Also you can't show the 15% was earmarked for housing/homelessness.


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